18 replies to this topic

[1972Todd]

I need to increase my arm speed. Does anyone have any advice or drills on increasing arm speed? I'm not looking to speed up my hips, just my arms. All suggestions are welcome and thanks in advance.

[hbgpagolfpro]

1972Todd, on 11 January 2011 - 08:18 PM, said:

I need to increase my arm speed. Does anyone have any advice or drills on increasing arm speed? I'm not looking to speed up my hips, just my arms. All suggestions are welcome and thanks in advance.

Your arms are connected to your body...its your body speed that will increase your arm speed.  If you simply try to hit the ball with your arms, your swing speed will actually decrease significantly.  Forget about the arms, work on increasing body speed.

[1972Todd]

hbgpagolfpro, on 11 January 2011 - 09:33 PM, said:

1972Todd, on 11 January 2011 - 08:18 PM, said:

I need to increase my arm speed. Does anyone have any advice or drills on increasing arm speed? I'm not looking to speed up my hips, just my arms. All suggestions are welcome and thanks in advance.

Your arms are connected to your body...its your body speed that will increase your arm speed.  If you simply try to hit the ball with your arms, your swing speed will actually decrease significantly.  Forget about the arms, work on increasing body speed.

Thanks, but I use the Manuel De La Torre swinging method. The body is completely responsive to the swinging of the arms instead of the arms responding to the body. My accuracy has improved greatly since reading his book last spring and I am currently going through it again. I just need a little more speed with my arms, so I can get more distance.

[JDUB81]

Mark Evershed has some good videos on the arms.  He is big on ..  "speed comes from the arms and hands".  Check out lagandload.com, Mark has  a video called arms first.  You can access his academy videos with a free 24hr subscription.  Try finding videos by Mike Bender (Johnathan Byrds coach, JByrd whips his arms pretty fast). Tom Tomasello videos are good too. Here is a Bender video from Youtube:

Edited by JDUB81, 11 January 2011 - 11:38 PM.

[MonteScheinblum]

1972Todd, on 11 January 2011 - 09:50 PM, said:

hbgpagolfpro, on 11 January 2011 - 09:33 PM, said:

1972Todd, on 11 January 2011 - 08:18 PM, said:

I need to increase my arm speed. Does anyone have any advice or drills on increasing arm speed? I'm not looking to speed up my hips, just my arms. All suggestions are welcome and thanks in advance.

Your arms are connected to your body...its your body speed that will increase your arm speed.  If you simply try to hit the ball with your arms, your swing speed will actually decrease significantly.  Forget about the arms, work on increasing body speed.

Thanks, but I use the Manuel De La Torre swinging method. The body is completely responsive to the swinging of the arms instead of the arms responding to the body. My accuracy has improved greatly since reading his book last spring and I am currently going through it again. I just need a little more speed with my arms, so I can get more distance.

That being the case, you need to make sure your arms stay in front of your chest.  If you go too flat with your arms, you will not be able to speed them up, they will have to slow down to allow the club to get back in front of your chest.

If you work on being bent over enough at the waist so you arms hang down out of your shoulders and makes sure your shoulders are turning 90* to your spine...your arms will be able to speed up as much as you are physically capable.

[slicer2scratch]

You could put your feet together or roll your ankles inward so your weight is on the insteps of your feet at address. This limits lateral motion and allows you to feel the swing of the club. Also right leg back into a closed stance at address trying to keep your shoulders extremely closed the whole time and swing your arms and club. Another drill is to grip the club upside down with your right arm only and hold your left arm at 90 degrees out in front of you at address. Making a normal back swing with just your right arm swing through as fast as you can with that right arm only.

[juststeve]

Todd:

A few ideas for you, not mine, directly from the source.

1.  Swinging fast is not the same as swinging hard.  What you want to do to hit the ball further is to swing faster, not harder.  Relax,  A tension free swing is a fast swing.  If you remain tension free and concentrate on swinging the arms forward you will learn to swing the club as fast as you can.  

2.  Manuel encouraged me to swing a golf club without a club head.  Just a shaft and grip.  The idea is to make as loud a swish as you can through the impact area while maintaining balance.  The ultra light shaft and grip concentration teaches  your muscles to move fast not hard.  

3.  Recognize that Manuel's method is probably not the one to use if what you want to do it hit the ball as far as possible.  I assure you however that if you master his method you can hit the ball far enough to play excellent golf.  Keep at it and your arm speed will increase gradually over time.

Steve

[1972Todd]

Guys, thanks for the help. I appreciate it.

juststeve, on 12 January 2011 - 12:21 PM, said:

Todd:

A few ideas for you, not mine, directly from the source.

1.  Swinging fast is not the same as swinging hard.  What you want to do to hit the ball further is to swing faster, not harder.  Relax,  A tension free swing is a fast swing.  If you remain tension free and concentrate on swinging the arms forward you will learn to swing the club as fast as you can.  

2.  Manuel encouraged me to swing a golf club without a club head.  Just a shaft and grip.  The idea is to make as loud a swish as you can through the impact area while maintaining balance.  The ultra light shaft and grip concentration teaches  your muscles to move fast not hard.  

3.  Recognize that Manuel's method is probably not the one to use if what you want to do it hit the ball as far as possible.  I assure you however that if you master his method you can hit the ball far enough to play excellent golf.  Keep at it and your arm speed will increase gradually over time.

Steve

Steve

Thanks, I'm glad you chimed in. I've read some of your other post and they've help me to understand De La Torre's book more the second time around.

I was already planning to focus on relaxed arms my next time out. It's good to know I'm on the right track. I have a habit of using muscle to swing harder instead of relaxed and faster. I'm not looking to enter any long drive competitions, just a consistent 230-240. Any advice would be appreciated as I try to master Manuel De La Torre's method, since I can't afford to go see the man himself.

[cbrian]

The epitome of cryptic

Edited by cbrian, 13 January 2011 - 02:08 AM.

[juststeve]

Todd:

I’ll offer a few more random thoughts on the subject.  You will know whether they apply to you or not.  I can’t know because I’ve never seen you swing the club.

1.  Many people think they are swinging their arms with a responsive body when in fact they aren’t.  This is particularly the case with people who are coming to the method after having worked on a turn oriented method.  You need to exaggerate the feeling of swinging the arms and letting the arm swing turn the body.  One way to do this is to hit balls with your feet together, actually touching.  This quiets the body down and allows it to respond to the momentum of the swing.  You are looking for a very distinct feeling that the club is being swung rapidly past the body, not with the body.  When I’m playing at my best I have a distinct feeling that my body is quiet as the club swings past.  I know its just a feeling but it’s a good one.

2.  Our ultimate goal is to hit the ball long and straight.  For some people, those not acquainted with the feeling of speed in the swing, long may need to come first.  I would therefore suggest that you spend a few range session working on speed even at the expense of contact and accuracy.  Acquire a sense of swinging the club with abandon through the hitting area.  Just letting it go as it whips through the ball.  Once you get the feeling of swinging fast that feeling will stay with you when you get back to concentrating on contact and direction.  Then you can hit it straight and long.

Assuming you have no physical impediments the distance goals you have set are well within you ability.  Its just a matter of diligent effort.

Steve

[1972Todd]

Steve

Thanks, I' ll try swinging and hitting balls with my feet together. I've played it safe with very easy swings for so many years now that it's been hard to just let her rip. Hopefully the drill will help. I work out at least 4 days a week and have no physical issues fortunately. I just have to get the feeling of speed back. I lost my speed and all clubhead feel a few years ago after trying several different swing methods, that didn't work for me of course. "Understanding The Golf Swing" has helped to get me back on track.

[golfsavvy]

A lot of good info.  While Manuel advocated a pretty neutral grip, if you do increase your arm speed you may increase lag, and if you do that you may need a stronger left hand grip.  You didn't really say why you wanted to increase your speed, so I'm guessing it's simply to hit the ball farther.  

I found with Manuel's method a softer shaft flex was also helpful -- something for you to test.  If his method is working for you, that's awesome.  He's a great teacher.  I took a bunch of lessons from him in '82, and never learned more from anybody.  You might look up Ernest Jones too.

The philosophy I got from Manuel was to never fight the golf club, but to work with it.  You're on a good track.

[1972Todd]

golfsavvy, on 14 January 2011 - 12:44 AM, said:

A lot of good info.  While Manuel advocated a pretty neutral grip, if you do increase your arm speed you may increase lag, and if you do that you may need a stronger left hand grip.  You didn't really say why you wanted to increase your speed, so I'm guessing it's simply to hit the ball farther.  

I found with Manuel's method a softer shaft flex was also helpful -- something for you to test.  If his method is working for you, that's awesome.  He's a great teacher.  I took a bunch of lessons from him in '82, and never learned more from anybody.  You might look up Ernest Jones too.

The philosophy I got from Manuel was to never fight the golf club, but to work with it.  You're on a good track.

Golfsavvy

Thanks for the grip tip. More distance is my reason for wanting to increase my arm speed. It's the one thing that's really keeping me from scoring. I reach most par 4s in 3 and par 5s in 4, so distance in definitely needed. I've actually just got some Ping G10 irons in regular flex. I've been playing stiff for 6 yrs, so the softer flex should help with distance.

[midgiteyehigh]

1972Todd, on 11 January 2011 - 08:18 PM, said:

I need to increase my arm speed. Does anyone have any advice or drills on increasing arm speed? I'm not looking to speed up my hips, just my arms. All suggestions are welcome and thanks in advance.

See the latest craze in drivers? Under 300 grams. To swing faster you must TRAIN lighter. For the guy that swings under 100mph these new ultra light clubs will prove to be a god send IMO. For guys that square the club with adequate speeds of say, 105+ the ultra light's probably aren't neccesary. But training with SUPER light clubs of from 170 to 220 grams is essential.

The long drive guys have trained lighter for years to increase the quick twitch muscle fiber, supposedly. I'm not a bio-mechanics guy so I can't claim that's what's doing it, but if you go to drive4show.com there is some good info on how at the Olympic Training Center than train swimmers by pulling them threw the pool and having sprinters run DOWN hill to experience how it feels to run or swim faster than their bodies ever have.

There is a 3 week training course that I used and I gained over 10 mph. However, it's all about BALL speed and that means you must hit it solid or squarely for that speed to translate into that 3 yards for every 1 MPH.

Also, swinging light is hazardous to your pivot! It's easy to destroy proper sequencing because it's SOOOO easy to swing from the top with light equipment. But as long as you are training properly or are supervised by a professional that knows what he is doing you should be fine. I charge $450 for 9 40 min sessions. I also guarantee results or they get their $$$$ back.

I have a 67 cicil court judge that went from 65 MPH to 82 in those 3 weeks with his 330 gram driver. He can swing the ultra light training club around 90 mph.

I would encourage all you guys out there that are on a mission to find the holy grail of swing keys to find an instructor that offers Overspeed Training and finally start get some value for your instructional dollar. Instead of paying $100+ and hour to watch video comparing your swing positions to some tour professional that you have a very minimal chance of achieving, find a coach that emphasizes the development and refinement of skills. That's when you start to see scores drop. I promise.

[HappyGolf]

JDUB81, on 11 January 2011 - 11:26 PM, said:

Here is a Bender video from Youtube:

That is an excellent video, I use that technique of throwing the ball downwards but I do it with PUNCHING.

How fast can you punch? That straightening of your elbow happens really quickly, if you can add that into your downswing then you're going to pick up clubheadspeed. I almost feel I am punching the ball at the last possible moment with my right arm.. but making sure I am punching at the ball and not letting it uncock/flip my right wrist... I can bomb it!

If I attempt the drill by throwing a ball it doesn't feel half as powerful, and the right wrist becomes a bit 'flippy'.

Edited by HappyGolf, 14 January 2011 - 07:12 AM.

[happyroman]

1972Todd, on 11 January 2011 - 09:50 PM, said:

hbgpagolfpro, on 11 January 2011 - 09:33 PM, said:

1972Todd, on 11 January 2011 - 08:18 PM, said:

I need to increase my arm speed. Does anyone have any advice or drills on increasing arm speed? I'm not looking to speed up my hips, just my arms. All suggestions are welcome and thanks in advance.

Your arms are connected to your body...its your body speed that will increase your arm speed.  If you simply try to hit the ball with your arms, your swing speed will actually decrease significantly.  Forget about the arms, work on increasing body speed.

Thanks, but I use the Manuel De La Torre swinging method. The body is completely responsive to the swinging of the arms instead of the arms responding to the body. My accuracy has improved greatly since reading his book last spring and I am currently going through it again. I just need a little more speed with my arms, so I can get more distance.

This is a chicken or the egg, which came first debate.  What is happening physiologically, even with the De La Torre method, is that the pivot of the body is in fact swinging the arm/club unit.  The difference is how one feels the swing and what motivations are used in order to generate the swing and clubhead speed.  When you swing the club back with the hands and through the ball with the arms, even though the movements of the body are really causing the arms to swing, it feels as though the body is responding to, rather than causing, the arm swing.

That being said, to answer your question, an excellent drill is to do practice swings, back and through on a relatively flat plane, like a baseball swing.  The clubhead will pass in front of you at a level somewhere between the knees and the waist.  Work on making a smooth swing back and through with no tension in the arms or wrists, and try to make the swooshing sound as loud as possible.  The louder the swoosh, the faster the swing.

Start slowly, much more slowly than your normal swing, and as you swing back and through, gradually increase the speed of the swinging motion.  The key will be to not use your arm strength to try and generate the speed, or to allow the arms to swing across the chest, crashing into the torso. If this happens, then the body is not responding to the arms swinging, and the arms and body will be out of sync. On the forward swing, if I understand De La Torre correctly, you are using only the arms, defined as the portion of the limb between the shoulders and elbows.  Using this definition, the hands simply hold onto the club, as Ben Hogan used to describe.

[mikpga]

- Swing Fan
- Weighted Club
- Many Balls Struck with Feet Planted

[1972Todd]

happyroman, on 15 January 2011 - 02:06 PM, said:

1972Todd, on 11 January 2011 - 09:50 PM, said:

hbgpagolfpro, on 11 January 2011 - 09:33 PM, said:

1972Todd, on 11 January 2011 - 08:18 PM, said:

I need to increase my arm speed. Does anyone have any advice or drills on increasing arm speed? I'm not looking to speed up my hips, just my arms. All suggestions are welcome and thanks in advance.

Your arms are connected to your body...its your body speed that will increase your arm speed.  If you simply try to hit the ball with your arms, your swing speed will actually decrease significantly.  Forget about the arms, work on increasing body speed.

Thanks, but I use the Manuel De La Torre swinging method. The body is completely responsive to the swinging of the arms instead of the arms responding to the body. My accuracy has improved greatly since reading his book last spring and I am currently going through it again. I just need a little more speed with my arms, so I can get more distance.

This is a chicken or the egg, which came first debate.  What is happening physiologically, even with the De La Torre method, is that the pivot of the body is in fact swinging the arm/club unit.  The difference is how one feels the swing and what motivations are used in order to generate the swing and clubhead speed.  When you swing the club back with the hands and through the ball with the arms, even though the movements of the body are really causing the arms to swing, it feels as though the body is responding to, rather than causing, the arm swing.

That being said, to answer your question, an excellent drill is to do practice swings, back and through on a relatively flat plane, like a baseball swing.  The clubhead will pass in front of you at a level somewhere between the knees and the waist.  Work on making a smooth swing back and through with no tension in the arms or wrists, and try to make the swooshing sound as loud as possible.  The louder the swoosh, the faster the swing.

Start slowly, much more slowly than your normal swing, and as you swing back and through, gradually increase the speed of the swinging motion.  The key will be to not use your arm strength to try and generate the speed, or to allow the arms to swing across the chest, crashing into the torso. If this happens, then the body is not responding to the arms swinging, and the arms and body will be out of sync. On the forward swing, if I understand De La Torre correctly, you are using only the arms, defined as the portion of the limb between the shoulders and elbows.  Using this definition, the hands simply hold onto the club, as Ben Hogan used to describe.

You're right about the chicken or egg. I've been swinging with just a shaft(no head) this week in the backyard. Although I haven't hit any balls due to weather, I do sense that my speed is increasing from swinging it. I can fell the difference when I swing a normal club. De La Torre does describe the arms as shoulder to elbow. The only thing that confuses me slightly is the feeling of using the arms as he describes. It sort of feels like I'm starting with my shoulders, kind of hard to move the upper arms without the shoulders. Is that the proper feel to have when using this method?

[happyroman]

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I need to increase my arm speed. Does anyone have any advice or drills on increasing arm speed? I'm not looking to speed up my hips, just my arms. All suggestions are welcome and thanks in advance.
[/quote]

Your arms are connected to your body...its your body speed that will increase your arm speed.  If you simply try to hit the ball with your arms, your swing speed will actually decrease significantly.  Forget about the arms, work on increasing body speed.
[/quote]

Thanks, but I use the Manuel De La Torre swinging method. The body is completely responsive to the swinging of the arms instead of the arms responding to the body. My accuracy has improved greatly since reading his book last spring and I am currently going through it again. I just need a little more speed with my arms, so I can get more distance.
[/quote]


This is a chicken or the egg, which came first debate.  What is happening physiologically, even with the De La Torre method, is that the pivot of the body is in fact swinging the arm/club unit.  The difference is how one feels the swing and what motivations are used in order to generate the swing and clubhead speed.  When you swing the club back with the hands and through the ball with the arms, even though the movements of the body are really causing the arms to swing, it feels as though the body is responding to, rather than causing, the arm swing.

That being said, to answer your question, an excellent drill is to do practice swings, back and through on a relatively flat plane, like a baseball swing.  The clubhead will pass in front of you at a level somewhere between the knees and the waist.  Work on making a smooth swing back and through with no tension in the arms or wrists, and try to make the swooshing sound as loud as possible.  The louder the swoosh, the faster the swing.

Start slowly, much more slowly than your normal swing, and as you swing back and through, gradually increase the speed of the swinging motion.  The key will be to not use your arm strength to try and generate the speed, or to allow the arms to swing across the chest, crashing into the torso. If this happens, then the body is not responding to the arms swinging, and the arms and body will be out of sync. On the forward swing, if I understand De La Torre correctly, you are using only the arms, defined as the portion of the limb between the shoulders and elbows.  Using this definition, the hands simply hold onto the club, as Ben Hogan used to describe.


[/quote]

You're right about the chicken or egg. I've been swinging with just a shaft(no head) this week in the backyard. Although I haven't hit any balls due to weather, I do sense that my speed is increasing from swinging it. I can fell the difference when I swing a normal club. De La Torre does describe the arms as shoulder to elbow. The only thing that confuses me slightly is the feeling of using the arms as he describes. It sort of feels like I'm starting with my shoulders, kind of hard to move the upper arms without the shoulders. Is that the proper feel to have when using this method?
[/quote]

Shawn Clement calls it the Taut Swing Philosophy, where the centrifugal force created by the pivot results in the arms and club being pulled outward from the body during the swing. The resulting feeling is a tugging of the arms on the shoulder sockets. Here's a video where he explains this in detail. I found it to be very helpful.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=clemshaw#p/search/0/A_RO2gcJ7fI"]http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=clemshaw#p/search/0/A_RO2gcJ7fI[/url]