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R11 shaft sleeve info - clarification for everyone


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#1 dlefty

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:14 AM

Just a heads up on the shaft sleeves for everyone.

All the sleeves of the past work and fit properly, and function the same.  The R11 sleeve (same as SuperTri/SuperDeep style with the large slide over ferrule) will simply feature different wording/markings to make it easier to understand for everyone.

You can tell by several threads right here on WRX, that many simply were confused or didn't understand opening the face resulted in less effective loft, and closing the face resulted in more effective loft.......and this is WRX, so you can imagine the average casual golf shopper.

So now instead of open and closed markings on the sleeve, it will simply have + loft and - loft markings, face angle is still changing the same as always, but instead of pointing that out, it is pointing out the effective loft change.

So ALL sleeves will work, they ALL do the same thing, just the wording/labeling on the sleeve is different making the loft adjustments easier to understand.

You then tweak the face angle to where you want via the sole plate after the loft (face angle) adjustment.

Because of the +/- loft designations instead of L/R markings, you will see different sleeves for RH and LH players, because L is open for a lefty (less loft) and L is closed for a righty (more loft) so they had to print different loft change markings on RH and LH sleeves.  BUT, same sleeves.

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#2 leftturn7m

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:18 AM

Thank you for the information.  I'm sure this will be checked many, many times throughout the next few weeks.

#3 duffer888

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 01:33 PM

View Postdlefty, on 29 December 2010 - 10:14 AM, said:

Because of the +/- loft designations instead of L/R markings, you will see different sleeves for RH and LH players, because L is open for a lefty (less loft) and L is closed for a righty (more loft) so they had to print different loft change markings on RH and LH sleeves.  BUT, same sleeves.

And TaylorMade thought that having a left/right sleeve and a sole plate was less confusing?

Thanks for the info, and now the AST makes a bit more sense to me.
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#4 TMfan54

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 02:01 PM

good post. thanks.
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#5 TheDarkOne

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 02:45 PM

Thanks for the info! I was wondering the same thing.


#6 2011USAMPlayer

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 03:12 PM

View Postdlefty, on 29 December 2010 - 10:14 AM, said:

Just a heads up on the shaft sleeves for everyone.

All the sleeves of the past work and fit properly, and function the same.  The R11 sleeve (same as SuperTri/SuperDeep style with the large slide over ferrule) will simply feature different wording/markings to make it easier to understand for everyone.

You can tell by several threads right here on WRX, that many simply were confused or didn't understand opening the face resulted in less effective loft, and closing the face resulted in more effective loft.......and this is WRX, so you can imagine the average casual golf shopper.

So now instead of open and closed markings on the sleeve, it will simply have + loft and - loft markings, face angle is still changing the same as always, but instead of pointing that out, it is pointing out the effective loft change.

So ALL sleeves will work, they ALL do the same thing, just the wording/labeling on the sleeve is different making the loft adjustments easier to understand.

You then tweak the face angle to where you want via the sole plate after the loft (face angle) adjustment.

Because of the +/- loft designations instead of L/R markings, you will see different sleeves for RH and LH players, because L is open for a lefty (less loft) and L is closed for a righty (more loft) so they had to print different loft change markings on RH and LH sleeves.  BUT, same sleeves.

Im sorry, please clarify! Opening the face produces less loft? "WRX, that many simply were confused or didn't understand opening the face resulted in less effective loft, and closing the face resulted in more effective loft.......and this is WRX, so you can imagine the average casual golf shopper."
Does it not in fact increase the loft!




#7 EHSGolf1

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 03:42 PM

Thanks for the information! That should make a lot of people happy

#8 bjfed

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 03:42 PM

View Post2011USAMPlayer, on 29 December 2010 - 03:12 PM, said:

View Postdlefty, on 29 December 2010 - 10:14 AM, said:

Just a heads up on the shaft sleeves for everyone.

All the sleeves of the past work and fit properly, and function the same.  The R11 sleeve (same as SuperTri/SuperDeep style with the large slide over ferrule) will simply feature different wording/markings to make it easier to understand for everyone.

You can tell by several threads right here on WRX, that many simply were confused or didn't understand opening the face resulted in less effective loft, and closing the face resulted in more effective loft.......and this is WRX, so you can imagine the average casual golf shopper.

So now instead of open and closed markings on the sleeve, it will simply have + loft and - loft markings, face angle is still changing the same as always, but instead of pointing that out, it is pointing out the effective loft change.

So ALL sleeves will work, they ALL do the same thing, just the wording/labeling on the sleeve is different making the loft adjustments easier to understand.

You then tweak the face angle to where you want via the sole plate after the loft (face angle) adjustment.

Because of the +/- loft designations instead of L/R markings, you will see different sleeves for RH and LH players, because L is open for a lefty (less loft) and L is closed for a righty (more loft) so they had to print different loft change markings on RH and LH sleeves.  BUT, same sleeves.

Im sorry, please clarify! Opening the face produces less loft? "WRX, that many simply were confused or didn't understand opening the face resulted in less effective loft, and closing the face resulted in more effective loft.......and this is WRX, so you can imagine the average casual golf shopper."
Does it not in fact increase the loft!




As the club is open at address the player has to square it at impact therefore decreasing the effective loft at impact.  The opposite is true as well.  If your set up is closed, the player has to open the face at impact in order to square it therefore adding loft.

#9 teeboi316

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 03:56 PM

Nice info post. Thx

#10 RC51ManSam

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 05:37 PM

I was hoping that TM would go a similar route to Titleist with making the adjustments independent. So basically it seals the deal for me. 910D3 it is.


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#11 cmilz99

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 05:42 PM

View PostRC51ManSam, on 29 December 2010 - 05:37 PM, said:

I was hoping that TM would go a similar route to Titleist with making the adjustments independent. So basically it seals the deal for me. 910D3 it is.


It sounds like they did.  The hosel adjusts loft, and the sole plate adjusts lie/ face angle.

#12 RC51ManSam

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 05:58 PM

View Postcmilz99, on 29 December 2010 - 05:42 PM, said:

View PostRC51ManSam, on 29 December 2010 - 05:37 PM, said:

I was hoping that TM would go a similar route to Titleist with making the adjustments independent. So basically it seals the deal for me. 910D3 it is.


It sounds like they did.  The hosel adjusts loft, and the sole plate adjusts lie/ face angle.


What it seems like is that they created another adjustment to compensate for one adjustment. So to get more loft the clubface has to be open. But to close the face at address you have to adjust the sole. With Titleist to adjust loft you just adjust the loft, no other adjustment is necessary.

#13 Mick Ill Son!

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 06:20 PM

View PostRC51ManSam, on 29 December 2010 - 05:58 PM, said:

View Postcmilz99, on 29 December 2010 - 05:42 PM, said:

View PostRC51ManSam, on 29 December 2010 - 05:37 PM, said:

I was hoping that TM would go a similar route to Titleist with making the adjustments independent. So basically it seals the deal for me. 910D3 it is.


It sounds like they did.  The hosel adjusts loft, and the sole plate adjusts lie/ face angle.


What it seems like is that they created another adjustment to compensate for one adjustment. So to get more loft the clubface has to be open. But to close the face at address you have to adjust the sole. With Titleist to adjust loft you just adjust the loft, no other adjustment is necessary.

Not true. Just like taylormade you adjust the loft with face angle. The second adjustment titleist added was a lie angle adjustment.

#14 RC51ManSam

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 06:26 PM

View PostMick Ill Son!, on 29 December 2010 - 06:20 PM, said:

View PostRC51ManSam, on 29 December 2010 - 05:58 PM, said:

View Postcmilz99, on 29 December 2010 - 05:42 PM, said:

View PostRC51ManSam, on 29 December 2010 - 05:37 PM, said:

I was hoping that TM would go a similar route to Titleist with making the adjustments independent. So basically it seals the deal for me. 910D3 it is.


It sounds like they did.  The hosel adjusts loft, and the sole plate adjusts lie/ face angle.


What it seems like is that they created another adjustment to compensate for one adjustment. So to get more loft the clubface has to be open. But to close the face at address you have to adjust the sole. With Titleist to adjust loft you just adjust the loft, no other adjustment is necessary.

Not true. Just like taylormade you adjust the loft with face angle. The second adjustment titleist added was a lie angle adjustment.

Not true. This is straight from the Titleist website. "Howdoes the SureFit Tour system work?
SureFit Tour uses what we calldual angle technology which allows loft and lie to be independently adjustedand set to optimize performance and ball flight.  We can enhance or correct left-to-right ball flight andenhance or correct launch and spin to provide the best trajectory.  The ability to do these thingsindependently is our competitive advantage." I can confirm this. I work at Golf Galaxy and spent a lot of time with a 910D3. When I adjust loft the lie angle does not change.

#15 dlefty

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 06:48 PM

View PostRC51ManSam, on 29 December 2010 - 05:37 PM, said:

I was hoping that TM would go a similar route to Titleist with making the adjustments independent. So basically it seals the deal for me. 910D3 it is.

Incorrect, Titleist adjustments for loft and face angle are NOT independent, it is pointed out plain as day in the fitters guide, NOT the chart that comes with the club.  Face angle is still changing with adjustments.......which is fine, just goes against your statement.

With the new TaylorMade setup, loft is still controlled by the FCT sleeve which manipulates face angle in order to modify loft, BUT, you can then move face angle back to a setting that you want via the AST sole plate.  So therefore, with TaylorMade you can achieve a face angle you desire, no matter what the loft adjustment.

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#16 dlefty

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 06:50 PM

View PostRC51ManSam, on 29 December 2010 - 06:26 PM, said:

View PostMick Ill Son!, on 29 December 2010 - 06:20 PM, said:

View PostRC51ManSam, on 29 December 2010 - 05:58 PM, said:

View Postcmilz99, on 29 December 2010 - 05:42 PM, said:

View PostRC51ManSam, on 29 December 2010 - 05:37 PM, said:

I was hoping that TM would go a similar route to Titleist with making the adjustments independent. So basically it seals the deal for me. 910D3 it is.


It sounds like they did.  The hosel adjusts loft, and the sole plate adjusts lie/ face angle.


What it seems like is that they created another adjustment to compensate for one adjustment. So to get more loft the clubface has to be open. But to close the face at address you have to adjust the sole. With Titleist to adjust loft you just adjust the loft, no other adjustment is necessary.

Not true. Just like taylormade you adjust the loft with face angle. The second adjustment titleist added was a lie angle adjustment.

Not true. This is straight from the Titleist website. "Howdoes the SureFit Tour system work?
SureFit Tour uses what we calldual angle technology which allows loft and lie to be independently adjustedand set to optimize performance and ball flight.  We can enhance or correct left-to-right ball flight andenhance or correct launch and spin to provide the best trajectory.  The ability to do these thingsindependently is our competitive advantage." I can confirm this. I work at Golf Galaxy and spent a lot of time with a 910D3. When I adjust loft the lie angle does not change.

Correct 1 collar for lie angle, other collar for loft-which DOES INDEED manipulate face angle.......please investigate your fitting guide that came with your cart, it WILL show you the face angle manipulation.
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#17 maddsurf

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 06:51 PM

Just ordered another FCT tip for my Diamana ShaqX I have laying around, the R11 with that shaft should be pretty good!

#18 2659edward

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 06:52 PM

Thanks for the info. I had heard they were going to be different but, wasn't sure how. That cleared it up.
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#19 RC51ManSam

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 07:06 PM

[quote name='dlefty' timestamp='1293666654' post='2864830']
[quote name='RC51ManSam' timestamp='1293665211' post='2864790']
[quote name='Mick Ill Son!' timestamp='1293664839' post='2864780']
[quote name='RC51ManSam' timestamp='1293663485' post='2864733']
[quote name='cmilz99' timestamp='1293662544' post='2864708']
[quote name='RC51ManSam' timestamp='1293662232' post='2864699']
I was hoping that TM would go a similar route to Titleist with making the adjustments independent. So basically it seals the deal for me. 910D3 it is.
[/quote]


It sounds like they did.  The hosel adjusts loft, and the sole plate adjusts lie/ face angle.
[/quote]


What it seems like is that they created another adjustment to compensate for one adjustment. So to get more loft the clubface has to be open. But to close the face at address you have to adjust the sole. With Titleist to adjust loft you just adjust the loft, no other adjustment is necessary.
[/quote]

Not true. Just like taylormade you adjust the loft with face angle. The second adjustment titleist added was a lie angle adjustment.
[/quote]

Not true. This is straight from the Titleist website. "Howdoes the SureFit Tour system work?
SureFit Tour uses what we calldual angle technology which allows loft and lie to be independently adjustedand set to optimize performance and ball flight.  We can enhance or correct left-to-right ball flight andenhance or correct launch and spin to provide the best trajectory.  The ability to do these thingsindependently is our competitive advantage." I can confirm this. I work at Golf Galaxy and spent a lot of time with a 910D3. When I adjust loft the lie angle does not change.
[/quote]

Correct 1 collar for lie angle, other collar for loft-which DOES INDEED manipulate face angle.......please investigate your fitting guide that came with your cart, it WILL show you the face angle manipulation.
[/quote]

Got it. I was wrong. So now my question is. If the R11 is adjusted to add loft, hence open clubface, won't adjusting the AST to closed decrease loft?

#20 dlefty

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 07:14 PM

View PostRC51ManSam, on 29 December 2010 - 07:06 PM, said:


Got it. I was wrong. So now my question is. If the R11 is adjusted to add loft, hence open clubface, won't adjusting the AST to closed decrease loft?

Because you are keeping the angle of shaft into head via FCT, that doesn't change, and then you tweak the sole plate adjustment, while FCT is not touched.

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#21 RC51ManSam

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 07:27 PM

View Postdlefty, on 29 December 2010 - 07:14 PM, said:

View PostRC51ManSam, on 29 December 2010 - 07:06 PM, said:

Got it. I was wrong. So now my question is. If the R11 is adjusted to add loft, hence open clubface, won't adjusting the AST to closed decrease loft?

Because you are keeping the angle of shaft into head via FCT, that doesn't change, and then you tweak the sole plate adjustment, while FCT is not touched.


Gotcha. Now I hope that the R11 is just as hot as the 910. The ball really flies off the face of the 910 and the sound and feel are tremendous.

#22 bjfed

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 07:55 PM

So are we looking at like 72 combinations using all the adjustable features?  Or are there only two MWT weights giving it 48?  Will there be a possibility of redundancies, meaning the possibility to have the same setup two different ways?

#23 shawnee

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 09:42 PM

can I ask a stupid question here?
Can we use the r9 shafts with r9 tips
in the r11 heads?
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#24 BigLeftyinAZ

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:53 PM

I still don't see how this sole plate will do anything.Hosel adapter changes face angle which changes loft is totally understandable and I never questioned anything on that,but how does sole plate adjust anything?

My understanding is the sole plate changes club if you set club on ground then grip club?

#25 dlefty

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 11:46 PM

View Postshawnee, on 29 December 2010 - 09:42 PM, said:

can I ask a stupid question here?
Can we use the r9 shafts with r9 tips
in the r11 heads?

As I mentioned in my original post, ALL shaft sleeves / tips work in ALL the R9 & R11 heads.

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#26 dlefty

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 11:48 PM

View PostBigLeftyinAZ, on 29 December 2010 - 10:53 PM, said:

I still don't see how this sole plate will do anything.Hosel adapter changes face angle which changes loft is totally understandable and I never questioned anything on that,but how does sole plate adjust anything?

My understanding is the sole plate changes club if you set club on ground then grip club?

Sole plate adjusts face angle by the way it is machined at different angles for different settings (open, neutral, closed).  The face angle differences occurs when the club rests on the ground in the address position.
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#27 golfboy123

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 12:26 AM

wow.......... This is great info, Thanks :partytime2:

#28 Chappie

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 01:11 AM

It is indeed great info, but it also shows how poorly companies (both TM and Titliest) are explaining the process to their consumers.  


I mean yeah, nowadays it's easy to just release anything with a tagline and your average joe with $$ in his pocket will go ape s*** but it is slightly annoying to try and figure all this out as a fairly educated golfer.

Obviously, this technology is best enhanced by a fitter, but still... I'd like to see the regular consumer know a bit more up front, it kind of is a shame watching someone walk into a GG/GS and buy a 400 stick and have no idea what it does, or what it could potentially do.  

I don't know, that's a pet peeve of mine... /end rant

Great explanation of the technology lefty, now when do we see a superdeep version? :D

#29 bjfed

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 02:37 AM

View PostChappie, on 30 December 2010 - 01:11 AM, said:

It is indeed great info, but it also shows how poorly companies (both TM and Titliest) are explaining the process to their consumers.  


I mean yeah, nowadays it's easy to just release anything with a tagline and your average joe with $ in his pocket will go ape s*** but it is slightly annoying to try and figure all this out as a fairly educated golfer.

Obviously, this technology is best enhanced by a fitter, but still... I'd like to see the regular consumer know a bit more up front, it kind of is a shame watching someone walk into a GG/GS and buy a 400 stick and have no idea what it does, or what it could potentially do.  

I don't know, that's a pet peeve of mine... /end rant

Great explanation of the technology lefty, now when do we see a superdeep version? :D

I agree.  Its getting almost too complex and approaching redundant.  Whos to say joe schmo makes an adjustment to do something he thinks he needs and then makes another adjustment that undoes the first one?  Gonna be interesting to see where this goes.  
Its gonna come full circle and glued drivers are gonna be huge in like 5 years, just like hypercolor shirts.

#30 BigLeftyinAZ

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 09:46 AM

Dlefty,thanks for verifying the sole plate.IMHO,I feel the sole plate is the most retarded idea,anybody has dreamed up.

So, Does the sole plate do anything for the people who grip club off the ground then set up into address?


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