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Why dont more tour players play mizuno irons


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#61 Ballhound

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 11:23 AM

Just a gut feeling of what people on this sight rave about in irons in the recent past.  Ping S56 and Mizuno MP53's.  One's cast and ones forged but there is an undeniable buzz about these products.  They flat out work.  What can you say about 14 professional world wide tour wins last year for the S56's.  You want to win or take an endorsement fee?  Just ask Ryan Moore who played them for a while last year.  He could have played Mizunos when he had no contract so it comes down to individual feel.  Nothing like striking a grain flow forged Mizuno iron but apparently they're just not for most pros. They play for the bottom line.....$$$$.


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#62 dalehead

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 11:29 AM

First of all I love Mizuno irons. I have a set on T-Zoid pros, MP 29's, and TN 87's in the garage right now, and despite what my signature says, I currently have a set of MP 14's in the bag.

I tell you that to establish my Mizuno credentials if the hope (probably in vain) of not being branded a hater.

I believe Mizuno is, to a large degree, still living on the reputation as the best forged irons it established when it was the number 1 iron on tour. Staff players like Luke Donald have been major factors in the success of Mizuno. And of course I think Mizuno owes much of its success to Sir Nick Faldo, and maybe some to Tiger.

But, if they don't bolster their tour presence, I think they are in danger of going the same route as Ben Hogan irons, another brand I dearly love. Hogan had many of the top players in the game on their staff. Lanny Wadkins, DL III, Tom Kite, Jim Furyk, the list goes on and on. And as can be seen on the vintage WITB photos on this site, many non staff players bagged their irons.

For many years the reputation persisted that Hogan irons were top quality clubs for serious players. But as their tour presence declined the customer base slipped away to other brands, people forgot the great reputation,and new players to the game were not exposed to it. We all know the effect this has had on the Hogan brand.

I'm afraid Mizuno could go the same route, reduced to cult status like Miura or Scratch. Great clubs, but virtually unknown except to a hardcore of aficiandos.

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#63 damnorcross

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 11:33 AM

View Postduckhook, on 30 December 2010 - 11:23 AM, said:



Check out the presentation linked below from 2009(?).  Golf is Mizzy's 3rd largest revenue producer.  There is more emphasis on shoes, apparel, and baseball.  Most of the golf discussion is how to deal with their shinking presence, which is also shinking in Japan.

Spalding had, and still has, many other sports products.  They ditched Top Flite and Hogan because they weren't money makers relative to the other parts of the business.  Investors wonder...why lose money on one segment when the company sould put more money into their money makers?  

Not saying Mizzy will go the same route of death (nor do I want them to), but there are a lot of valid comparisons.  It isn't a golf decision, it's purely ROI.

http://www.mizuno.co...summary2009.pdf

I have a friend who works there, he said don't worry, Mizuno golf isn't going anywhere.  The numbers are where they need to be.  And they don't have the tour presence because they don't spend the cash, no other reason.

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#64 duckhook

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 11:47 AM

View Postdamnorcross, on 30 December 2010 - 11:33 AM, said:



I have a friend who works there, he said don't worry, Mizuno golf isn't going anywhere.  The numbers are where they need to be.  And they don't have the tour presence because they don't spend the cash, no other reason.


It's the last sentence that scares me, "And they don't have the tour presence because they don't spend the cash, no other reason."  I just don't believe that is a good decision for a company that has the money to pay.  Obviously I'm not in their boardroom, so I can just hope they made the right decision.  

I actually wish Mizzy would purchase Srixon and market the combined Mizzy/Srixon line and team.

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#65 damnorcross

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 11:58 AM

View Postduckhook, on 30 December 2010 - 11:47 AM, said:




It's the last sentence that scares me, "And they don't have the tour presence because they don't spend the cash, no other reason."  I just don't believe that is a good decision for a company that has the money to pay.  Obviously I'm not in their boardroom, so I can just hope they made the right decision.  

I actually wish Mizzy would purchase Srixon and market the combined Mizzy/Srixon line and team.

Mizuno Japan makes those decisons, they must not be worried about it too much.  And they've been in business 100+ years, they must know what they are doing.


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#66 1puttwoods

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 12:12 PM

View PostBigLeftyAllAmerican, on 29 December 2010 - 07:08 PM, said:

If no one paid tour players to play their clubs Mizzy, Scratch, and Miura would dominate the tour and Titleist wouldn't be far behind!
That's one of the most laughable statements I've heard all year.  So why then does Scratch or Miura have literally no tour presence.  There are many guys out there without iron contracts and very, very, few voluntarily play Mizuno, and even less if any play Miura or Scratch.

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#67 tp280

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 12:36 PM

View Postdamnorcross, on 30 December 2010 - 10:58 AM, said:



Didn't think Mizuno touched the sole grind or offsets of their irons.  Did you get these directly from mizuno?

Yes the sets I had issue(s) with were all post 33, 32, 60 series.  All were genuine Mizuno sets. No point in ranting on the deficiencies, but as to the topic, Mizuno has new and old sets in play with top pros on all tours worldwide. Some pros like the new irons, some like the older sets. Tour issued sets are better matched than what hits the shelves.  Many long term Mizuno players are a bit taken back by the shapes of this year's product, save the 68's. If I had gotten a better set I would have kept them. but even after rebuilding, obvious variances in offset and head shape drove me to another place. (I can, and have played par and subpar golf with a slightly poor set of Mizuno's but choose differently because I don't want to settle).

Back to my view of the topic.

Scenerio 1: To make a set with the QC of the older (14's and 29's 89's and such), if it would take a $1050.00 street retail price point for 8 irons, I'm sure many Mizuno loyalists would pay. Many who have given up on the newer stuff whether from Mizuno or other OEM's aren't afraid to shell out 3K+ for Scratch Don White protos.

Scenerio 2: A lot of Mizuno MP irons are sold on the bay and elseware, for about $500.00, with buyers getting their local club repair to set the lies and go play. Players know they are going to tear them up in a year and can't justify the autonomy of spending more.

Mizuno will never put enough players on staff to skew sales numbers substantially from Scenerio 2 to 1.  It's a business equation for the company.  I do think a better QC program would do them good with their golf products. If you can't get them built right in Atlanta, perhaps go the way of Callaway and assemble them in Mexico, (that's our global economy right)? :o Or make them clubmaker sets for approved builders, i.e. Miura, Epon et al.
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#68 Vendetta

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 01:02 PM

It's been said before.
They aren't paying big dollars to keep player, and they aren't going to spend millions on a tour player, instead they would maybe put that toward R&D.
I think that's a good thing.

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#69 damnorcross

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 01:16 PM

View Posttp280, on 30 December 2010 - 12:36 PM, said:



Yes the sets I had issue(s) with were all post 33, 32, 60 series.  All were genuine Mizuno sets. No point in ranting on the deficiencies, but as to the topic, Mizuno has new and old sets in play with top pros on all tours worldwide. Some pros like the new irons, some like the older sets. Tour issued sets are better matched than what hits the shelves.  Many long term Mizuno players are a bit taken back by the shapes of this year's product, save the 68's. If I had gotten a better set I would have kept them. but even after rebuilding, obvious variances in offset and head shape drove me to another place. (I can, and have played par and subpar golf with a slightly poor set of Mizuno's but choose differently because I don't want to settle).

Back to my view of the topic.

Scenerio 1: To make a set with the QC of the older (14's and 29's 89's and such), if it would take a $1050.00 street retail price point for 8 irons, I'm sure many Mizuno loyalists would pay. Many who have given up on the newer stuff whether from Mizuno or other OEM's aren't afraid to shell out 3K+ for Scratch Don White protos.

Scenerio 2: A lot of Mizuno MP irons are sold on the bay and elseware, for about $500.00, with buyers getting their local club repair to set the lies and go play. Players know they are going to tear them up in a year and can't justify the autonomy of spending more.

Mizuno will never put enough players on staff to skew sales numbers substantially from Scenerio 2 to 1.  It's a business equation for the company.  I do think a better QC program would do them good with their golf products. If you can't get them built right in Atlanta, perhaps go the way of Callaway and assemble them in Mexico, (that's our global economy right)? :o Or make them clubmaker sets for approved builders, i.e. Miura, Epon et al.

Mizuno doesn't touch offset or sole grinds in Atlanta.  So I'm wondering where you got them from.

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#70 golfbum9

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 01:22 PM

View Posttp280, on 29 December 2010 - 10:31 PM, said:



Ok with the former statement, but oh the latter, QC is not there since they went to finishing the heads in China. After several poorly matched sets that needed rebuilds and a final set of Mp-68's that had out of whack offsets and sole grinds, I won't consider another set
I hope this gets the ire of someone at Mizuno, and not meant as an insult to someone still playing their clubs.
Sorry but I find that hard to believe. Mizuno has been the "flagship" iron company out of Japan for many many years and they're quite proud of it. Where you did you get that information? It makes absolutely no sense to forge their irons in Japan to then send an unfinished product all the way to China?  
It is true that they had chroming issues way back when, but has been resolved. I have had zero chrome issues since my irons have been in play since 1999. Yes '99 and still in great shape. They were reshafted to DG's because the Gold Plus shaft was an ill fit. But the specs weren't "all over the place" as you mentioned.
Mizuno may be the only oem left that hasn't gone to super upright lie angles in order to help the average golfer playing otr hit that elusive draw...
Those of us who play a flatter lie angle simply cannot play most oem irons nowadays due to the inabilty to adjust them enough without risk of a cushion insert of falling out  :lol:


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#71 BigLeftyAllAmerican

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 01:30 PM

View Postkloyd0306, on 29 December 2010 - 10:28 PM, said:

Uh oh.... You just hit a nerve.....

Clearly, you are limited in your knowledge of clubs and their manufacturers.

Ping's quality is simply fabulous especially when you consider that they are the biggest manufacturers of irons IN THE WORLD. Yes, that means they are bigger (and much much better) than the two biggest club companies Taylor Made and Callaway.

For their size, their quality is amazing. It may not match some tiny, niche market operation but they are huge and despite that are very good at turning out a quality item.

Phew. Don't get me started...............

In fact, you should apologize for defaming such a great company, so there......


Or i could just make a comment on what i have experianced by hitting there irons and woods and i don't like them at all. The Ping G5 is 25 yards shorter than my Superfast TP and i have no feel with any of there irons. the guy at golf galaxy tried to use the Ping fitting system and we had to switch to the mizuno fitting system because i couldn't hit the Ping's because they felt horrible.

Edited by BigLeftyAllAmerican, 30 December 2010 - 02:46 PM.
Language.


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#72 hayzooos

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 01:38 PM

View PostEternal_Envoy, on 29 December 2010 - 09:39 PM, said:

That has to be the most ill thought outPosted Image statement I've heard this week.
Ping churning out crap?
Uh. Have you looked at Nike and Taylormade lately? I can say the same things about them.
I throw up VIOLENTLY every time I see a Nike club. That doesn't mean they're crap.
If you think the I15 driver is crap, it's because you can't hit it solidly.
If you think the S56s are crap, it's because you're a hater.

There's a difference between not liking something and it being crap.
I personally HATE Miura. I really just don't like their irons. That DOES NOT make them crap.



I hope I didn't ruin your computer ;)
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#73 golfbum9

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 01:47 PM

View Posthayzooos, on 30 December 2010 - 01:38 PM, said:

View PostEternal_Envoy, on 29 December 2010 - 09:39 PM, said:

That has to be the most ill thought outPosted Image statement I've heard this week.
Ping churning out crap?
Uh. Have you looked at Nike and Taylormade lately? I can say the same things about them.
I throw up VIOLENTLY every time I see a Nike club. That doesn't mean they're crap.
If you think the I15 driver is crap, it's because you can't hit it solidly.
If you think the S56s are crap, it's because you're a hater.

There's a difference between not liking something and it being crap.
I personally HATE Miura. I really just don't like their irons. That DOES NOT make them crap.



I hope I didn't ruin your computer ;)
Dude you can point out any ungly sgi from any major oem as an example of ugly. Why didn't you post a pic of the CCi's or Vr line?  
The truth is, Nike has been making excellent equipment since their initial wood entries which as I'm sure many would agree... were awful. People seem to hate on Nike simply because they're Nike.   :rolleyes:

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#74 tp280

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 01:51 PM

View Postdamnorcross, on 30 December 2010 - 01:16 PM, said:



Mizuno doesn't touch offset or sole grinds in Atlanta.  So I'm wondering where you got them from.

No one is reading this right. To spell it out-some examples, the set of MP-68 6 7 8 irons had extra offset from the progression with the rest of the set, It was bothersome to look down at one of the lowest offset sets on the market and see this.  The sole grinds weren't very continuous from club to club, looked like a set of component clubs. I'm not suggesting this was intentional, just a lack of QC, The suspect irons should have gone to re-work or scrap not in a first line set of clubs.

A couple years ago I ordered MP-67 7-PW short set.  The offset was nearly double that of what  the MP-67 display set had, WTF? $500 down the drain...

How many sets of "Genuine" Mizuno Irons do I need to go through to see an issue with the company. Unless I see a set on the rack that meets my visual and measues to my technical expectations (I'm a former club pro and PCS clubmaker, as picky as anyone on this website),  I'm done with their clubs at least expecting something decent to show up in a box from them. I play standard length DG S300 so no weird needs here, just standard "A" weight heads.

I'm sure some one at the Atlanta (Norecross) facility can spin a lean-6 simga twist on their product, but my experiences with five c**p sets of MP's since they went to finishing the heads in China suggest otherwise. Proof of the MFG switch  from complete iron work at Chua-Japan to Forging there and finihing in China is available, do a topic search.

I hope I P/O'd enough Mizuno lovers that someone goes out and shoots a 65 this afternoon, personally I hope someone reads this and "Gets" it at Mizuno.
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#75 hayzooos

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 01:58 PM

View Postgolfbum9, on 30 December 2010 - 01:47 PM, said:

Dude you can point out any ungly sgi from any major oem as an example of ugly. Why didn't you post a pic of the CCi's or Vr line?  
The truth is, Nike has been making excellent equipment since their initial wood entries which as I'm sure many would agree... were awful. People seem to hate on Nike simply because they're Nike.   :rolleyes:

I'm not hating on Nike at all...thought it was kind of a funny joke and wanted to potentially lighten the mood in this thread a bit.  People get their panties in such a bundle over simple, non-important things.  I agree that Nike does make good equipment, as does TaylorMade, and every other OEM.  I just saw a post (and bolded the part I was referencing) and threw a picture up on there.  I figured it was better to take an ugly Nike club than a decent looking one (ie the Vr line or CCi's as you stated) to make the funny, but maybe I was off.

Edited by hayzooos, 30 December 2010 - 02:00 PM.

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#76 golfbum9

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 02:01 PM

No "Mizuno lover" by any means... not a fanboy nor a hater of any company.
Just your statement about finishing their heads in China makes no sense.
That said your ingorance shows through with your statement on components. Just so you know, quality component companies have much tighter specs than any of their major competitors.

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#77 tp280

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 02:20 PM

View Postgolfbum9, on 30 December 2010 - 02:01 PM, said:

No "Mizuno lover" by any means... not a fanboy nor a hater of any company.
Just your statement about finishing their heads in China makes no sense.
That said your ingorance shows through with your statement on components. Just so you know, quality component companies have much tighter specs than any of their major competitors.

Edit to "Looked like a set of Cheap component clubs", agreed many component sets are excellent quality. It is a fact that MP heads are forged at Chuo Japan, finsished and chromed at a facility in China, and USA distribution sets are assembled in the Norecross, Georgia facility. I wish everyone better luck in getting a good set than I have had :russian_roulette: .:butcher: :deadhorse:
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#78 damnorcross

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 02:24 PM

Assembled in Norcross.  I live there, so I thought I'd help you with the spelling.

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#79 golfbum9

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 02:28 PM

View Posttp280, on 30 December 2010 - 02:20 PM, said:

View Postgolfbum9, on 30 December 2010 - 02:01 PM, said:

No "Mizuno lover" by any means... not a fanboy nor a hater of any company.
Just your statement about finishing their heads in China makes no sense.
That said your ingorance shows through with your statement on components. Just so you know, quality component companies have much tighter specs than any of their major competitors.

Edit to "Looked like a set of Cheap component clubs", agreed many component sets are excellent quality. It is a fact that MP heads are forged at Chuo Japan, finsished and chromed at a facility in China, and USA distribution sets are assembled in the Norecross, Georgia facility. I wish everyone better luck in getting a good set than I have had :russian_roulette: .:butcher: :deadhorse:
The word you would be looking for is "Clone". Big difference!
Forged at Chuo Japan and distributed from the Geogia facility is widely known. Your "finished and chromed in China" is where I disagree. Where is your statement coming from?
Did it ever don on you that the lofts for those couple of irons in question were out of spec, hence showing more offset?

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#80 tp280

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 02:30 PM

View Postdamnorcross, on 30 December 2010 - 02:24 PM, said:

Assembled in Norcross.  I live there, so I thought I'd help you with the spelling.

I appreciate it (Lazy Typo), I hope the company/division there remains strong and viable. Anything done in the USA still is a positive, Hope the QC improoves...

Regardless of the supply chain, the end result the consumer experiences is important. I think you'll see a number of comments over the last few years since the production changes mentioned, where people comment on playability, durability, quality/consistancy, and overall satisfaction, just like people talk about there cars.

If it goes upward, and tour pros may have a perspective on the product for simalar reasons, that can certainly effect player counts and their overall satisfaction level...

Edited by tp280, 30 December 2010 - 02:39 PM.

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#81 damnorcross

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 02:35 PM

View Posttp280, on 30 December 2010 - 02:30 PM, said:

View Postdamnorcross, on 30 December 2010 - 02:24 PM, said:

Assembled in Norcross.  I live there, so I thought I'd help you with the spelling.

I appreciate it (Lazy Typo), I hope the companydivision there remains strong and viable. Anything done in the USA still is a positive, Hope the QC improoves...

My buddy works there - diamond (especially volleyball) and running are doing great, golf has rebounded after a poor 2009.  But I would assume most golf companies struggled in 2009.

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#82 damnorcross

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 02:37 PM

Let me clarify - their diamond division includes baseball, softball, and volleyball.  My last post may have been confusing.

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#83 leftturn7m

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 02:51 PM

View Postdamnorcross, on 30 December 2010 - 02:37 PM, said:

Let me clarify - their diamond division includes baseball, softball, and volleyball.  My last post may have been confusing.

Yes, Mizuno is way bigger overall than just golf.  My MP 32's are fantastic clubs.  I don't care where they are "chromed" or whatever, it's the manufacturing process that makes the difference.  I am not stuck to Mizuno but haven't hit anything, yet, that makes me want to boot them out.

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#84 tp280

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 03:11 PM

View Postgolfbum9, on 30 December 2010 - 02:28 PM, said:


The word you would be looking for is "Clone". Big difference!
Forged at Chuo Japan and distributed from the Geogia facility is widely known. Your "finished and chromed in China" is where I disagree. Where is your statement coming from?
Did it ever don on you that the lofts for those couple of irons in question were out of spec, hence showing more offset?

One last time...The heads were off. I have my own shop complete with Mitchell club machine. I have worked on golf clubs for over 35 years. I respectively put my work against anyone in the industry. I don't need to go any further with my statement. Threads come and go on this board if they strike to close to home for someone or cross the line on providing unfavorable information. Mindfull of the topic, spend some time and do your homework, I have... Good day sir!
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#85 GetmeouttaJersey

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 03:16 PM

This is just a thought and may be 100% wrong, but I figured I'd mention it.  

Let's all remember, these guys are VERY GOOD.  Think about it for a second, while we are always looking to tinker and find something that gets us 5 more yards or brings our dispersion tighter, I honestly think at that level, the difference between say the 710 MB and the Mizuno MP 68 is so miniscule, that noone is stupid enough to take LESS MONEY to play something that will have little to no affect on their game.  

The guys on the big tour can have ANYTHING they want made for them.  If a Titleist staffer hit's a Ping iron and really likes it, they'll go to their Titleist rep and have them make a set as close as possible to that Ping set.  The Tour Van's and Tour Rep's are at the mercy of the players, as they should be.  


For example, if you lay down every muscle back blade manufactured by all OEM's.  They are going to be dramatically similar (with a few exceptions of course).  So in reality, how much will it help Tour Player X who is an unbelievable ball striker to make a switch to an iron almost identical (in performance, not look).  

Forgive me if this is confusing or off base but it's just my thoughts on the topic.  Great topic by the way, with the exception of the Fan boy and inaccurate statements.  

Cheers.

Edited by MrParr1Noid, 30 December 2010 - 04:34 PM.
Language.

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#86 golfbum9

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 03:16 PM

Still haven't answered the question...You aren't alone, there are a lot of knowlegable folks on here with plenty of experience.
Cheers!

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#87 GetmeouttaJersey

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 03:19 PM

View Postleftturn7m, on 30 December 2010 - 02:51 PM, said:

View Postdamnorcross, on 30 December 2010 - 02:37 PM, said:

Let me clarify - their diamond division includes baseball, softball, and volleyball.  My last post may have been confusing.

Yes, Mizuno is way bigger overall than just golf.  My MP 32's are fantastic clubs.  I don't care where they are "chromed" or whatever, it's the manufacturing process that makes the difference.  I am not stuck to Mizuno but haven't hit anything, yet, that makes me want to boot them out.

While Mizuno is far from a strictly golf OEM, in my opinion, they probably have the best reputation in the golf industry, in terms of irons.  .  It may not be the most played iron on tour (for a number of reasons) BUT  if you look at guys who PAY for their clubs, it is a very popular OEM when it comes to forged varieties.  Anytime forged, player's irons comes up in a conversation, Mizuno should get a mention, no?
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#88 9ccat9

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 03:28 PM

5000.00 a week vs perfomance and playing for 1,000,000 first place checks???  Sorry guys but pros will play what works.  Plain and simple there is just too much money involved to give up perfomance.  If they don't perform they lose their card and endorsement deals.
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#89 damnorcross

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 03:31 PM

View PostGetmeouttaJersey, on 30 December 2010 - 03:16 PM, said:

This is just a thought and may be 100% wrong, but I figured I'd mention it.  

Let's all remember, these guys are VERY  GOOD.  Think about it for a second, while we are always looking to tinker and find something that gets us 5 more yards or brings our dispersion tighter, I honestly think at that level, the difference between say the 710 MB and the Mizuno MP 68 is so miniscule, that noone is stupid enough to take LESS MONEY to play something that will have little to no affect on their game.  

The guys on the big tour can have ANYTHING they want made for them.  If a Titleist staffer hit's a Ping iron and really likes it, they'll go to their Titleist rep and have them make a set as close as possible to that Ping set.  The Tour Van's and Tour Rep's are at the mercy of the players, as they should be.  


For example, if you lay down every muscle back blade manufactured by all OEM's.  They are going to be dramatically similar (with a few exceptions of course).  So in reality, how much will it help Tour Player X who is an unbelievable ball striker to make a switch to an iron almost identical (in performance, not look).  

Forgive me if this is confusing or off base but it's just my thoughts on the topic.  Great topic by the way, with the exception of the Fan boy and inaccurate statements.  

Cheers.

good point.  when I was an asst. pro in KC, I was talking to Woody Austin (he was a member).  His contract was up with Ram, and I asked him who he was going with the following year.  He said he didn't care, all he wanted was the correct shafts and a forged head.  He said the heads are so similar he could adjust to any company, he just needed the correct shafts.  Find what works for you, and don't worry what other people think about your clubs.  I know I don't.

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#90 harajuku

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 04:19 PM

Let's remember there are no longer OEM's, they are OE 'd' designers..O-Ta Precision Mfg for the 56's and some Titleist irons, Endo Forging for  Callaway x forgings and protypes, and their cast products are mfg down in Shenzen, China.  Chuo forging house for Mizuno and Mizuno has a cast facility in Shanghai (worked in maritime biz too long & you end up seeing all the ocean bills of lading) Chuo acutally mfg's a number of high-precision parts for Japan's bullet train.

All going to change shortly as Nike has agreed to a number for Scotty Cameron and
Titleist line of clubs ends up at Nike.
If the OE'D's are partnering with a great vendor, great design and great mfg come together for a great product for the consumer and pushes the industry forward..
Tom Wishon's patents on titanium weighted heads, KZG and the maraging technolgy, adjustable hosels have been mentioned..it's when Taylormade need a head for the tour and a head for the retail shelf that the consumer should be a bit nervous.


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