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Why dont more tour players play mizuno irons


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#1 Connorws

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 10:55 PM

if mizuno is one of the best in feel preformance why dont more tour players play it?
this is just something tht pondered apon my mind


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#2 J.W.

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 10:57 PM

 Connorws, on 28 December 2010 - 10:55 PM, said:

if mizuno is one of the best in feel preformance why dont more tour players play it?
this is just something tht pondered apon my mind

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.  Used to be the #1 iron on tour.
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#3 Go_Time

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 11:15 PM

Because they don't care to pay players to play their clubs...they sell enough irons here without the advertising, I imagine.

#4 BCC

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 11:39 PM

$$$$$$$$$$$--don't/can't compete with the big dollar guys !!!!
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#5 freshprince99

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 11:48 PM

its my understaning that when they were the number one iron on tour all those years they were paying a weekly stipend to anyone who played their irons (ive heard as much as $5000 per player). so all the guys ranked 75 to 150 on the money list who didnt have a requirement to play other stuff were bagging their irons. thats how they won the iron stat week after week from what ive heard.

still a great stick though, the 29's and 14's are still one of the best irons ever IMO.


#6 SMUGamer

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 12:22 AM

I play MP 68's now, but consider the MP 29's the best of all time!!!

#7 Socrates

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 12:45 AM

Back in time, there weren't as many endorsement deals where OEM's pretty much had the whole bag.  Sometimes the player also had more leeway about playing something else as long as no one asked (damn internet & Darrell Survey).  Now they know immediately if you are screwing around.  Plus, Mizuno doesn't really have anything other than irons and wedges at the Tour level so they aren't ever going to get a player for the whole bag (or majority) so most players who need money go elsewhere.
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#8 r8ted_vrp

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 12:49 AM

I would honestly say their wedges aren't bad and can compete on tour no issues and also their woods are also very good clubs.  I don't think the woods and wedges get the respect they deserve but Mizuno could get a player for the whole bag and that player (depending on the player) would still compete each tourney.
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#9 tembolo1284

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 07:13 AM

Money is an issue but also feel they aren't pushing to keep guys.  So what are ya gonna do.
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#10 st997777

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 07:33 AM

money


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#11 tembolo1284

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 07:39 AM

Very sad I say....very sad.
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#12 Sakman

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 08:02 AM

 tembolo1284, on 29 December 2010 - 07:39 AM, said:

Very sad I say....very sad.

What's sad? The fact the Mizzy doesn't shell out oodles of $$$$ per tourney for players to bag their irons or the fact that a majority of other OEM's are doing so?

It's all about the business/market share these days...and I don't see it going away anytime in the near future.

Oh well...what can you do.

Edited by Sakman, 30 December 2010 - 08:34 AM.
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#13 NPVWhiz

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:58 AM

Mizuno, I would bet, has market research that shows that their buyers are some of the least sensitive to "tour brand identity".  In other words, they are the least likely to make a golf equipment purchase based on what a favorite player is using.  They're serious players that make equipment purchases based on criteria that are focused on their own game and how the equipment suits their own performance goals.  They are not concerned about whether a Davis Love or an Ernie Els or a Lee Westwood is playing the same model of iron they play.

On tour, the dynamic is now different than it was in the 90s.  Taylormade/Callaway/Titleist have some indication that their sales are driven in part by brand presence on the tour.  Mizuno knows that their sales volume in the US is very weakly correlated with the number of Mizuno staff bags seen on TV.  For that reason, they allocate budget to player promotion accordingly.  The situation could be entirely different in Japan, where their brand identity is probably much more tied to tour exposure over there, and so they invest.

#14 Mick Ill Son!

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 11:06 AM

Taylormade and Titleist spend the most money on tour and thus have the most staff. Guys on tour play what they are payed to play which is why I always laugh when people on these boards look to tour use to decide what is best for them. A client who I built a set of Miura 501s recently played a pro am with Kenny Perry. He told me that Kenny kept hitting his clubs and everytime he turned around Kenny was pulling another Miura out of his bag. He told my client he wished he could play these irons as he thought they were awesome.

#15 setter02

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 11:29 AM

 Mick Ill Son!, on 29 December 2010 - 11:06 AM, said:

Taylormade and Titleist spend the most money on tour and thus have the most staff. Guys on tour play what they are payed to play which is why I always laugh when people on these boards look to tour use to decide what is best for them. A client who I built a set of Miura 501s recently played a pro am with Kenny Perry. He told me that Kenny kept hitting his clubs and everytime he turned around Kenny was pulling another Miura out of his bag. He told my client he wished he could play these irons as he thought they were awesome.


Problem with this is that Perry CAN play what ever HE wants.  HE choose money over personal preference in equipment.  You can`t have it all in life, he made the decision!  If your going to sell your soul to the devil ™, then you have to live with it.

Edited by setter02, 29 December 2010 - 11:30 AM.

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#16 stryper

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 11:54 AM

 NPVWhiz, on 29 December 2010 - 10:58 AM, said:

Mizuno, I would bet, has market research that shows that their buyers are some of the least sensitive to "tour brand identity".  In other words, they are the least likely to make a golf equipment purchase based on what a favorite player is using.  They're serious players that make equipment purchases based on criteria that are focused on their own game and how the equipment suits their own performance goals.  They are not concerned about whether a Davis Love or an Ernie Els or a Lee Westwood is playing the same model of iron they play.

On tour, the dynamic is now different than it was in the 90s.  Taylormade/Callaway/Titleist have some indication that their sales are driven in part by brand presence on the tour.  Mizuno knows that their sales volume in the US is very weakly correlated with the number of Mizuno staff bags seen on TV.  For that reason, they allocate budget to player promotion accordingly.  The situation could be entirely different in Japan, where their brand identity is probably much more tied to tour exposure over there, and so they invest.
I have zero experience in marketing/business, but this is what I have suspected. The Asian market has always seemed to be the first to get the newest and coolest Mizuno stuff, while this side of the drink has had to wait.  And then it seemed to be a watered-down version at that.  Witness the JPX line that, while new to us, has been out over there for quite some time.  Fortunately, I'm no Ho, and I'm satisfied with my MX-23's, but it would be kind of neat to see the, say, Taylormade stable of tour players play the stuff they really want to play.

:miz:


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#17 reg1900

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 06:12 PM

I don't care for Taylormade and their business plan of signing up every tour player they can.

I wish mizuno would sign a few more guys to get their sales going to compete, then we'd see more of their sweet Asian market clubs go worldwide.

It sucks to say but If they had Ricky Fowler or Rory McIlroy imagine the hype they could generate. But Mizuno doesn't seem to do that, hype is Taylormades specialty

Edited by MrParr1Noid, 30 December 2010 - 10:12 AM.
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#18 Mudguard

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 06:52 PM

Mizuno driver is ok, by brother seems to hit it really, really well. He has it and the 910.  We've both got MP63's (his soft stepped X100) and ordinary S300's for me.

Again, if they sell enough, they probably don't need to pay pro's. Drives me nuts that Taylormade release drivers so often.

#19 SPY ZINGER

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 06:56 PM

Ok, if I like the Callaway X-Tours from 2005, I will like the Mizuno _______________ ?

#20 BigLeftyAllAmerican

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 07:08 PM

If no one paid tour players to play their clubs Mizzy, Scratch, and Miura would dominate the tour and Titleist wouldn't be far behind!


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#21 DrSchteeve

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 07:47 PM

Fact is, most OEM's have enough offerings in a wide variety of categories that they can pretty much produce what their players need.  At the pro skill level, the clubs are a bit less important.  If it really mattered, the OEM's would copy whatever characteristic of the desired clubs - topline, offset, sole, etc.   Pretty toys are just that: pretty.
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#22 golfbum9

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 08:01 PM

It's a good thing Mizuno doesn't pay Tour players. This way their products can stay in line with the marketplace money wise, instead of sacrificing quality for the bottom line.

#23 MtlJeff

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 08:01 PM

 BigLeftyAllAmerican, on 29 December 2010 - 07:08 PM, said:

If no one paid tour players to play their clubs Mizzy, Scratch, and Miura would dominate the tour and Titleist wouldn't be far behind!

It's not like Nike, Ping, Callaway and TM are just churning out crap. Callaway basically started the multi-material wave unless i'm mistaken, and TM invented the adjustability that everyone is now copying. The big companies make a quality product too, they have the R&D budgets that drive true innovation
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#24 Mick Ill Son!

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 08:04 PM

 DrSchteeve, on 29 December 2010 - 07:47 PM, said:

Fact is, most OEM's have enough offerings in a wide variety of categories that they can pretty much produce what their players need.  At the pro skill level, the clubs are a bit less important.  If it really mattered, the OEM's would copy whatever characteristic of the desired clubs - topline, offset, sole, etc.   Pretty toys are just that: pretty.

In quite a few cases oems do just that but the point of paying players to play their stuff is to SELL THEIR CURRENT MODELS to people like those on these boards who start these threads. If they are playing 1 off prototypes that you cant buy, paying them to play stuff is not a good marketing strategy.

#25 MtlJeff

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 08:06 PM

 reg1900, on 29 December 2010 - 06:12 PM, said:

I don't care for Taylormade and their business plan of signing up every tour player they can.

I wish mizuno would sign a few more guys to get their sales going to compete, then we'd see more of their sweet Asian market clubs go worldwide.

It sucks to say but If they had Ricky Fowler or Rory McIlroy imagine the hype they could generate. But Mizuno doesn't seem to do that, hype is Taylormades specialty

the people that run these companies are usually pretty smart guys, with ample data to show them who their demographics are. It's quite possible Mizuno is simply not interested at all in having much of a tour presence. As someone else suggested they have a fairly loyal customer base that is indifferent to tour presence (think of them as a bigger scratch) and they are happy with their current market share. Sometimes it's actually more profitable to be one of the smaller guys. With increased share comes increased expenses. We've already seen a couple of big golf companies in financial trouble. They probably don't want Fowler/Mcilroy and the hype they'd generate because they'd have to hire more staff, open new factories etc...etc..

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#26 gridironesq

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 08:29 PM

Since most of us aren't paid to play any particular sticks, you need to go with what feels and works the best.  When it comes to irons, than usually means Mizuno should be the choice.
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#27 damnorcross

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 08:32 PM

$, plain and simple.  Mizuno doesn't want to spend the money that other companies do.  And they get plenty of guys playing their clubs w/out paying them (T. Hamilton when he won the British, Monty right now, D. Toms, Norman and Faldo for a while).  So it all comes down to money.

#28 sooperstring

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 08:42 PM

 BigLeftyAllAmerican, on 29 December 2010 - 07:08 PM, said:

If no one paid tour players to play their clubs Mizzy, Scratch, and Miura would dominate the tour and Titleist wouldn't be far behind!

It will never cease to amaze how WRXers, as a group, are so quick to point out that what the tour players play should not relate to what even the better amateur plays. But are the first to claim that, you know, if they didn't get paid, they would play exactly what I do.

I think your average WRXer cares more about what is played on tour than your mythical OTR, 100% TM player that people here disparage so much. If nobody payed pros to play what they do, you know what they would play? Probably almost the exact same thing they do. Maybe from a different OEM, but it's not like tour players just WISH they could game forged blades and bullseye putters, but gee golly, they just have to cave to the pressure to play i15's.

For what it's worth, even the guy who owned a part of Scratch no longer plays it. Not sure it would "dominate" the tour. Mizuno, maybe. Miura, eh. Scratch, no chance. And that should in no way be read as a condemnation of their product or their company.

#29 BigLeftyAllAmerican

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 08:53 PM

 MtlJeff, on 29 December 2010 - 08:01 PM, said:



It's not like Nike, Ping, Callaway and TM are just churning out crap. Callaway basically started the multi-material wave unless i'm mistaken, and TM invented the adjustability that everyone is now copying. The big companies make a quality product too, they have the R&D budgets that drive true innovation
Ping is just churning out crap and have you seen Callaway's new line? I throw up in my mouth a little bit everytime i see one of there clubs.

#30 bjackson

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 09:28 PM

 BigLeftyAllAmerican, on 29 December 2010 - 08:53 PM, said:

 MtlJeff, on 29 December 2010 - 08:01 PM, said:

It's not like Nike, Ping, Callaway and TM are just churning out crap. Callaway basically started the multi-material wave unless i'm mistaken, and TM invented the adjustability that everyone is now copying. The big companies make a quality product too, they have the R&D budgets that drive true innovation
Ping is just churning out crap and have you seen Callaway's new line? I throw up in my mouth a little bit everytime i see one of there clubs.

Ping certainly isn't churning out crap. The S56's are one of the most praised player's irons on the market. I love mine and so do many, many members of this forum as seen here. The i15's are very good as well, and though I haven't tried their SGI options, I've heard great things about the g15's.

Callaway's options, while maybe not the prettiest, certainly perform. The X Forged line has done very well ('07 and '09) and I am sure the RAZR X Forged will also be a success. The RAZR X Blade is just a mainstream X Prototype, which has done very well in its own right.

--------

This is my first time reading this thread and I am proud of our members. The first reply, along with most all of the others, was money. Mizuno won't just hand out money for bagging their clubs - which is the correct answer.


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