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Whay Are "Made For" Shafts Held In Such Disregard?


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#1 Tour50

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 01:32 PM

Why do "made for" shafts seem to be held in such disregard when compared to the same aftermarket shaft? I've seem some posts both for and against. Has anyone dug into the facts and or took some measurements to back up their point of view?

Regards,
Dan  :black eye:

Edited by Dan Twomey, 21 November 2010 - 01:33 PM.


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#2 bigbore56

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 01:37 PM

I am also curious...a lot of the sale listings show them as "a real xxx" shaft, vs a "made for" OEM shaft.  I would think the manufacturer would supply the same quality to an OEM?  I know the VooDoo red IMIX shaft i have in my FT-9 was a "real voodoo" and cost $300 just for the shaft.

#3 jaskanski

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 01:57 PM

Mostly, it's down to machismo. A lot of golfers will probably want to strut their prowess on the tee with their latest ultra stiff shaft that is probably ill suited to their swing - but the law of the jungle dictates that they must be a decent golfer with such a macho shaft. Most golfers who can actually discern the difference between the two will naturally tend to gravitate towards the "real deal" shaft too, even if it's not suited to their swing either.
The bottom line is this - OEM's would love the greatest number of potential customers to buy their club. This is why they install a softer "watered down" variant of a big name shaft. Basically, it's because the shaft will fit a wider spectrum of golfers, rather than the aftermarket shaft which will fit a smaller percentage of golfers. If you take the classic example of the "made for Diamana Blueboard" versus the "real deal" variant, the latter will fit a smaller number of golfers because it is firmer, heavier and ultimately more expensive. It will fit a potential 10% of the golfing population as opposed to the 25% the 'made for' shaft will fit.
Not wanting to look feeble in front of the big guys has something to do with it, but if most golfers are honest with themselves, they probably only get the most out of high end shafts when they are on their 'A' game anyway. It's also probably why a lot of after market shafts play slightly softer to flex as well these days.
At the end of the day, a good golfer can make the 'made for ' work for their game, but the average golfer cannot make the 'real deal' work for their game unless it's a specific fit.
A sad truth perhaps, but that's why a vast number of golfers are unwilliing to admit that they can't handle the the stiffer, boardier and prettier shafts that are held in such high esteem by their peers. Ego has a lot to answer for in bad scores.

Edited by jaskanski, 21 November 2010 - 02:00 PM.


#4 kevcarter

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 02:01 PM

Great answer jaskanski!  :drinks:
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#5 MtlJeff

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 02:02 PM

there's been a LOT of discussion on this topic and several facts have been used in these discussions. I know the search function isn't great here but you can probably still find a lot of material

a lot of "made for" shafts aren't necessarily bad shafts, they are just designed more for the average player and average swinger (easier to get the ball airborne, softer, torque-y). So it just seems like false advertising when they say a club has a "voodoo" in it when in reality it's not even close to the aftermarket version

i mention the voodoo because the aftermarket VS voodoo is my favorite shaft of all time, but if you compare it to the "titleist voodoo" it's not even remotely close to the same thing.

are they bad? No...sometimes you could argue it as a sort of false advertising though

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#6 Awalkspoiled

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 02:21 PM

Some are really good shafts, many will lsuit a broader range of players than would the after
market lookalike. Most are softer tipped and looser torque than the aftermarket stick. Few have really solid qc or consistency from shaft to shaft.

All that's fair enough. What ISN'T so cool is that they often look so much like the real deal that they harm the market for custom installation, since some guy who's hit a Cobra xcon isn't likely to realize what a difference the real thing could make to his game
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#7 Buzzkill

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 02:43 PM

View Postjaskanski, on 21 November 2010 - 01:57 PM, said:

Mostly, it's down to machismo. A lot of golfers will probably want to strut their prowess on the tee with their latest ultra stiff shaft that is probably ill suited to their swing - but the law of the jungle dictates that they must be a decent golfer with such a macho shaft. Most golfers who can actually discern the difference between the two will naturally tend to gravitate towards the "real deal" shaft too, even if it's not suited to their swing either.
The bottom line is this - OEM's would love the greatest number of potential customers to buy their club. This is why they install a softer "watered down" variant of a big name shaft. Basically, it's because the shaft will fit a wider spectrum of golfers, rather than the aftermarket shaft which will fit a smaller percentage of golfers. If you take the classic example of the "made for Diamana Blueboard" versus the "real deal" variant, the latter will fit a smaller number of golfers because it is firmer, heavier and ultimately more expensive. It will fit a potential 10% of the golfing population as opposed to the 25% the 'made for' shaft will fit.
Not wanting to look feeble in front of the big guys has something to do with it, but if most golfers are honest with themselves, they probably only get the most out of high end shafts when they are on their 'A' game anyway. It's also probably why a lot of after market shafts play slightly softer to flex as well these days.
At the end of the day, a good golfer can make the 'made for ' work for their game, but the average golfer cannot make the 'real deal' work for their game unless it's a specific fit.
A sad truth perhaps, but that's why a vast number of golfers are unwilliing to admit that they can't handle the the stiffer, boardier and prettier shafts that are held in such high esteem by their peers. Ego has a lot to answer for in bad scores.


View Postkevcarter, on 21 November 2010 - 02:01 PM, said:

Great answer jaskanski!  :drinks:

Totally agree - that probably covers 95% of the BS here.  There's nothing wrong with a lot of made for shafts.  Of course most everyone here hits it 300+yards carry so they need a stiffer shaft.
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#8 SpinMill75

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 02:44 PM

Jaskanski is spot on with his answer.  
I might also add, at least  in my situation, is that I am always buying and selling clubs.  A "made for" shaft has hardly any re-sale value compared to a "real" one.

#9 kamtile

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 02:45 PM

Most "made for" variations are not even close in specs to their aftermarket  counterparts.  One very recognizable "made for" is even manufactured on a different continent.  Few are made in the same facility or with nearly the same QC as the original.  Most "made for" shafts sell to the OEMs for less than $5 apiece.

#10 PINGWRXforeme

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 02:57 PM

I simply bought the "real" rip for my supertri because I like the all black look. No different than the people that spend houndreds of dollars to change the paint fill in a putter. Pretty sure that doesn't make anyone putt better. Maybe the made for rip is better for me, but they don't make one for a supertri.


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#11 Bobbers

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:12 PM

I have no statistics to support this statement, so at the risk of being flamed, I doubt that there's more than 5-10% of the market that's looking for an extra stiff shaft.  That leaves stiff, regular, and senior flex which is probably another 5-10% of the market.

With that as a starting point, you've got manufacturers who are looking for a shaft that will optimize the performance of their product, they'd be fools not to do so.  Whatever "tweaking" is done to the shafts they put into their product is designed to ADD to sales unless we'd like to believe that the business people running these companies are complete twits.

On to the shaft manufacturers...

Do we honestly think the people at Mitsubishi, Aldila, etc. are going to allow "crap shafts" with their logo, name, etc. on them to be foisted on the golfing public?   "Ahh, but look at the volume they do..."  If, as has been suggested, the manufacturers are buying these for $5 or less each, what sort of volume would you have to be presented with to sellout the value of your brand?

"Made for" is meant to convey that there was some thought and design that entered into the decision to include that particular shaft into that particular head; not "caveat emptor", in my opinion at least...

Just another .02 to toss in the pot.

#12 MtlJeff

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:16 PM

View PostBuzzkill, on 21 November 2010 - 02:43 PM, said:

View Postjaskanski, on 21 November 2010 - 01:57 PM, said:

Mostly, it's down to machismo. A lot of golfers will probably want to strut their prowess on the tee with their latest ultra stiff shaft that is probably ill suited to their swing - but the law of the jungle dictates that they must be a decent golfer with such a macho shaft. Most golfers who can actually discern the difference between the two will naturally tend to gravitate towards the "real deal" shaft too, even if it's not suited to their swing either.
The bottom line is this - OEM's would love the greatest number of potential customers to buy their club. This is why they install a softer "watered down" variant of a big name shaft. Basically, it's because the shaft will fit a wider spectrum of golfers, rather than the aftermarket shaft which will fit a smaller percentage of golfers. If you take the classic example of the "made for Diamana Blueboard" versus the "real deal" variant, the latter will fit a smaller number of golfers because it is firmer, heavier and ultimately more expensive. It will fit a potential 10% of the golfing population as opposed to the 25% the 'made for' shaft will fit.
Not wanting to look feeble in front of the big guys has something to do with it, but if most golfers are honest with themselves, they probably only get the most out of high end shafts when they are on their 'A' game anyway. It's also probably why a lot of after market shafts play slightly softer to flex as well these days.
At the end of the day, a good golfer can make the 'made for ' work for their game, but the average golfer cannot make the 'real deal' work for their game unless it's a specific fit.
A sad truth perhaps, but that's why a vast number of golfers are unwilliing to admit that they can't handle the the stiffer, boardier and prettier shafts that are held in such high esteem by their peers. Ego has a lot to answer for in bad scores.


View Postkevcarter, on 21 November 2010 - 02:01 PM, said:

Great answer jaskanski!  :drinks:

Totally agree - that probably covers 95% of the BS here.  There's nothing wrong with a lot of made for shafts.  Of course most everyone here hits it 300+yards carry so they need a stiffer shaft.

I don't really agree...

It's chic to say that everyone exaggerates their ability and everyone is macho and wants X flex shafts. To be honest in "real life" i haven't seen that at all. In fact i see the opposite more than anything. I have a few friends who definitely need X flex shafts,  but they are playing the 50G stock stiff ones that came with their driver. They just don't feel like putting in the extra work of getting their clubs re-shafted, or getting fitted and waiting the 2-3 weeks for their club to come in. I feel like we tend to get lost on this message board and just assume that everyone outside of it is exactly like us, it's not the case. I have friends who are 4-5 handicaps and have no idea what a voodoo shaft is, or what a whiteboard shaft is.  That may be an extreme but hardly anyone out there is a club junkie on the golfwrx level. 95% of the golfing public won't even check shaft flex before buying something off the rack. I've spent more time than any sane person should in golf shops and i've never heard anyone other than myself ask for X flex clubs. Obviously it happens but it's rare

I do agree that "made for" shafts are designed more for the average golfing public. I just don't think OEM's do it for Machismo reasons. They do it because the average person just won't know the difference anyway, and won't care.
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#13 Buzzkill

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:30 PM

I'm a 70's shooter and there's nothing wrong with "made by" shafts.  I think they apply performance wise to 95% of all golfers.  I think aftermarket shafts have their purpose too and I play them on occasion too but only when they've dropped down to realistic prices (50 bucks or less).
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Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:33 PM

I don't think "made for" shafts are necessarily bad but I do find them tremendously misleading marketing.

#15 jaskanski

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:37 PM

View PostMtlJeff, on 21 November 2010 - 03:16 PM, said:

It's chic to say that everyone exaggerates their ability and everyone is macho and wants X flex shafts. To be honest in "real life" i haven't seen that at all. In fact i see the opposite more than anything. I have a few friends who definitely need X flex shafts,  but they are playing the 50G stock stiff ones that came with their driver. They just don't feel like putting in the extra work of getting their clubs re-shafted, or getting fitted and waiting the 2-3 weeks for their club to come in. I feel like we tend to get lost on this message board and just assume that everyone outside of it is exactly like us, it's not the case. I have friends who are 4-5 handicaps and have no idea what a voodoo shaft is, or what a whiteboard shaft is.  That may be an extreme but hardly anyone out there is a club junkie on the golfwrx level. 95% of the golfing public won't even check shaft flex before buying something off the rack. I've spent more time than any sane person should in golf shops and i've never heard anyone other than myself ask for X flex clubs. Obviously it happens but it's rare

I do agree that "made for" shafts are designed more for the average golfing public. I just don't think OEM's do it for Machismo reasons. They do it because the average person just won't know the difference anyway, and won't care.

A good answer mate.
But...if most of the public don't know or care, then why would it be necessary to fit shafts with the same graphics of the aftermarket version they are trying to emulate?
Take our friends at Titleist. Much reknowned for their "made for" shafts in their drivers, but one of the best stock options ever was their UST V2 / 905R combo. Certainly not a made for version, but super effective - albeit at the expense of not being to everyone's taste in terms of feel and trajectory. Fast forward a couple of years and now that the public know it's a boardy and cheap shaft, it's gets dropped from it's stock line up because it's not fashionable anymore. Hastily replaced by the likes of "made for" Diamana BB's and Voodoo's, which incidently get replaced too by this years fashion trends in the shape of RIP's and PX shafts. It's almost like a fashion labels' pallette rather than an optimized shaft for a head now. It still remains a softer version of the shaft it tries to be, but if there was anything else other than sincere flattery, there certainly wouldn't be a need to market the shaft under the same label as an "as seen on tour" version. If the graphics weren't important, they wouldn't be there. Nothing is left to chance on the marketing side of selling clubs and the shaft is no exception.

Edited by jaskanski, 21 November 2010 - 03:40 PM.


#16 kevcarter

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:40 PM

View PostSmack Daddy, on 21 November 2010 - 03:33 PM, said:

I don't think "made for" shafts are necessarily bad but I do find them tremendously misleading marketing.

The Made For Titleist Voodoo was actually one of my all time favorite FW shafts. If they were available this year, I would have ordered them in the 910's. I am on the other side, I think the OEM Voodoo may be too strong for me, so I ordered the softer tipped UST...

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#17 MtlJeff

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 04:09 PM

View Postjaskanski, on 21 November 2010 - 03:37 PM, said:

View PostMtlJeff, on 21 November 2010 - 03:16 PM, said:

It's chic to say that everyone exaggerates their ability and everyone is macho and wants X flex shafts. To be honest in "real life" i haven't seen that at all. In fact i see the opposite more than anything. I have a few friends who definitely need X flex shafts,  but they are playing the 50G stock stiff ones that came with their driver. They just don't feel like putting in the extra work of getting their clubs re-shafted, or getting fitted and waiting the 2-3 weeks for their club to come in. I feel like we tend to get lost on this message board and just assume that everyone outside of it is exactly like us, it's not the case. I have friends who are 4-5 handicaps and have no idea what a voodoo shaft is, or what a whiteboard shaft is.  That may be an extreme but hardly anyone out there is a club junkie on the golfwrx level. 95% of the golfing public won't even check shaft flex before buying something off the rack. I've spent more time than any sane person should in golf shops and i've never heard anyone other than myself ask for X flex clubs. Obviously it happens but it's rare

I do agree that "made for" shafts are designed more for the average golfing public. I just don't think OEM's do it for Machismo reasons. They do it because the average person just won't know the difference anyway, and won't care.

A good answer mate.
But...if most of the public don't know or care, then why would it be necessary to fit shafts with the same graphics of the aftermarket version they are trying to emulate?
Take our friends at Titleist. Much reknowned for their "made for" shafts in their drivers, but one of the best stock options ever was their UST V2 / 905R combo. Certainly not a made for version, but super effective - albeit at the expense of not being to everyone's taste in terms of feel and trajectory. Fast forward a couple of years and now that the public know it's a boardy and cheap shaft, it's gets dropped from it's stock line up because it's not fashionable anymore. Hastily replaced by the likes of "made for" Diamana BB's and Voodoo's, which incidently get replaced too by this years fashion trends in the shape of RIP's and PX shafts. It's almost like a fashion labels' pallette rather than an optimized shaft for a head now. It still remains a softer version of the shaft it tries to be, but if there was anything else other than sincere flattery, there certainly wouldn't be a need to market the shaft under the same label as an "as seen on tour" version. If the graphics weren't important, they wouldn't be there. Nothing is left to chance on the marketing side of selling clubs and the shaft is no exception.


To be honest, I always wondered if it was more the shaft companies who were behind the "made for's" as a way of getting their brand names out there more, after all they need to be creative with marketing more than the OEM's as their budgets aren't as large. But i think your last sentence sums it up perfectly, when you say "nothing is left to chance" i agree, i doubt more than 5% of buyers would be swayed by what the stock shaft says on it, but it's still important to the OEM's to get that 5%. So i guess it works for both sides. It certainly doesn't hurt the OEM's to have the made-for there, so if it helps them sell it to the small number of people who actually are familiar with shaft brands, all the better

It's funny, since i joined this site a few years back i always ask people i play with about their clubs, not in an annoying way or anything, but i was a member at 2 golf clubs this year where the are lots of low caps. And i'm always dissapointed by how little people know about their clubs LOL. Even the best players i play with seem to just say "well i just hit it into the monitor and it felt good, so i bought it". I have a couple of friends who i've begged to let me put them on a launch monitor and they just won't do it. One of them is a 6 handicap who's swing speed is probably about 110, and he uses the callaway diablo driver with the stock made for DVS, and his 3 wood has a regular shaft. When i told him i got a new Voodoo for my driver earlier in the year i might as well have been speaking japanese to him...haha
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#18 PINGWRXforeme

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 04:48 PM

I might be missing something. Are there facts that back up that the specs are different? Why does the rip on the superdeep come in a taylormade color sceme but on an Adams it looks like a factory Adlila?

#19 2659edward

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 05:44 PM

View PostLNS, on 21 November 2010 - 04:48 PM, said:

I might be missing something. Are there facts that back up that the specs are different? Why does the rip on the superdeep come in a taylormade color sceme but on an Adams it looks like a factory Dalila?

Because TM requires their shafts have a standard  paint scheme. Adams obviously doesn't.

The TM TP shafts have historically had specs very close to their after market counter parts.
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Posted 21 November 2010 - 06:36 PM

Here are a few thoughts:

1) Made for shafts are cheaply made, softer tipped, and much less consistent.  I believe more resin(glue) is used in these junk shafts.
2) They are purposely made to deceive people.  Normal people see a shaft in play in tour...and they buy a club with the shaft in there.  They put the made for text on the shaft just to make sure they don't get sued for false advertising.  The point is that IMO, it IS false advertising.
3) The 95% of people who don't know any better will just continue believing they have a $300 shaft in their $400 club purchase.  The 5% who do know about the hoax will still buy the aftermarket version, simply because it is THAT MUCH BETTER.  No degradation of brand name, in my opinion.

Edited by jewofgolf, 21 November 2010 - 06:36 PM.


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#21 Big Ben

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 06:47 PM

Buy whatever you want, market however you want, this is America so be an educated consumer and spend your money early and often we need it...BB :)
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#22 statmagic

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 07:29 PM

View Postjewofgolf, on 21 November 2010 - 06:36 PM, said:

Here are a few thoughts:

1) Made for shafts are cheaply made, softer tipped, and much less consistent.  I believe more resin(glue) is used in these junk shafts.
2) They are purposely made to deceive people.  Normal people see a shaft in play in tour...and they buy a club with the shaft in there.  They put the made for text on the shaft just to make sure they don't get sued for false advertising.  The point is that IMO, it IS false advertising.
3) The 95% of people who don't know any better will just continue believing they have a $300 shaft in their $400 club purchase.  The 5% who do know about the hoax will still buy the aftermarket version, simply because it is THAT MUCH BETTER.  No degradation of brand name, in my opinion.

How do you know this? Are you in the business?

#23 statmagic

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 07:44 PM

It seems as though there's a lot of opinion and speculation on this topic. If there's anyone from the industry who can speak to the quality of the shafts that are designed for the OEMs please step forward.

My guess is that the shafts are EXACTLY the same shafts with different paint jobs. The premium price for the non-branded "boutique" shafts are where people are getting "the shaft" (pun intended).

In other words, you're paying a premium for that skull with the red eyes on that new RIP shaft you think makes you look cool but you've got the same thing as that guy with the branded OEM model.

#24 T.Beau

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 07:51 PM

View Postkamtile, on 21 November 2010 - 02:45 PM, said:

Most "made for" variations are not even close in specs to their aftermarket  counterparts.  One very recognizable "made for" is even manufactured on a different continent.  Few are made in the same facility or with nearly the same QC as the original.  Most "made for" shafts sell to the OEMs for less than $5 apiece.

If this is the case, then perhaps that means  these $300. shafts cost the manufacturers just a little more..perhaps as much as 10 dollars.  and people are paying 300 and more  for them. lol

I think the qc on any reputable 'made for' shaft is fine..i also think they perform fine for the target audience.  in many cases they are tweaked for great performance in a particular head.  Any name manufacturer wouldnt put an inferior shaft on one of their heads...it would be flat out stupid to do that.

Edited by T.Beau, 21 November 2010 - 07:55 PM.

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#25 chickenpotpie

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:06 PM

This thread makes me chuckle, and is/was somewhat predictable.  Those who have $300 shafts will defend their decision, rightly or wrongly.  Those who don't, will defend the quality of the made for shafts, again rightly or wrongly.  I've got a mix of both personally.  I don't really care what's printed on the shaft, so long as it works.

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#26 Mattro

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:11 PM

I have never had any problems with "made for" shafts.  What I have done with them is remove them align the spine to help get a consistent bend a viola'.  It may not be the "real deal" after market shaft, but it makes it a bit better than off the rack.

#27 homergolf

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:33 PM

I read from a link somewhere in Golfwrx about the VooDoo Titleist shaft.  It is the same shaft as the original, but with a longer tip.  If the shaft is tipped, it would be the exact same shaft.  The longer tip would make the shaft less stiff than the original, there is no other difference.
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#28 MtlJeff

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:34 PM

View Poststatmagic, on 21 November 2010 - 07:44 PM, said:

It seems as though there's a lot of opinion and speculation on this topic. If there's anyone from the industry who can speak to the quality of the shafts that are designed for the OEMs please step forward.

My guess is that the shafts are EXACTLY the same shafts with different paint jobs. The premium price for the non-branded "boutique" shafts are where people are getting "the shaft" (pun intended).

In other words, you're paying a premium for that skull with the red eyes on that new RIP shaft you think makes you look cool but you've got the same thing as that guy with the branded OEM model.

The specs of most made-for shafts are available if you do a little homework. You can see for yourself they aren't the same as the aftermarket versions. That doesn't make them worse, but they are different and that is a fact. Plus if you hit the Titleist Blueboard or Voodoo next to each of their respective aftermarkets the difference is very noticeable....unless of course you don't hit the ball consistently in which case you may not notice

View Postchickenpotpie, on 21 November 2010 - 08:06 PM, said:

This thread makes me chuckle, and is/was somewhat predictable.  Those who have $300 shafts will defend their decision, rightly or wrongly.  Those who don't, will defend the quality of the made for shafts, again rightly or wrongly.  I've got a mix of both personally.  I don't really care what's printed on the shaft, so long as it works.

I haven't seem too many people on this thread say that the made-for's are garbage or that they don't fit a lot of people. I don't know anything about you so this isn't directed at you, but some people just aren't good enough to tell the difference. But there is most certainly a difference.

and i'm not talking about costs of shafts, i'm speaking only about some "made-for's" versus their aftermarket counterparts

(for the record I have 3 drivers, one has a 300$ shaft, one has a 150$ shaft and one has a 60$ shaft....they all fit me)
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#29 PINGWRXforeme

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:41 PM

Though I love the look and confidence to address an all black head and shaft, I would give it all up to hit a 260yd fairway drive all the time with a pink shaft. Oh wait I'm not Bubba

#30 Qegurezi

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 08:58 PM

View Poststatmagic, on 21 November 2010 - 07:44 PM, said:

It seems as though there's a lot of opinion and speculation on this topic. If there's anyone from the industry who can speak to the quality of the shafts that are designed for the OEMs please step forward.

My guess is that the shafts are EXACTLY the same shafts with different paint jobs.
The premium price for the non-branded "boutique" shafts are where people are getting "the shaft" (pun intended).

In other words, you're paying a premium for that skull with the red eyes on that new RIP shaft you think makes you look cool but you've got the same thing as that guy with the branded OEM model.


You need to sit back for a few months and do a load of research.  "Guess" is not the word.


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