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Hillerich & Bradsby persimmon woods


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#1 Maxwell

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 10:42 AM

In the last year I have been making a conscious effort to look for and acquire older Hillerich & Bradsby persimmon woods from the 40's and 50's. I have the the 1983 Hillerich & Bradsby History Catalogue put together by Jim Kaplan so I am aware of what models are out there and what "level of play" they were manufactured for. I have been able to find and purchase only a handful of clubs(3 pics below). There are several models I have been looking for and have never even seen one of them. They are, the early 50's Model 48 Louisville Grandslam and  Models 400 & 500 PowerBilts. Does anyone have any pictures of these model clubs or any experience rebuilding these clubs?


Max

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#2 chrisbellaire

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 10:51 AM

Max,   PM Bella Woods directly; he's the resident H & B guru !

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#3 Bella Woods

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 02:48 PM

Blair:

I don't have any pictures of the Louisville Grand Slam Model 48 (I had a set of them but they were sold about
10 years ago). The Model 48 is a lot like the Model 14R (club head style and crown stamping etc.) except it has
a deep face and a Dynamic shaft, the Model 14R a medium deep face and a step down shaft. Also, the face of
the Model 14R was stained like the color of the club head, the Model 48 was not. They were both produced during
the same time period (1948 to 1952-3).

Here are a few pictures of a 1948 to 1952-3 Louisville Grand Slam Model 14R and a 1955 Louisville Grand Slam
Model 24R (the Model 24R is a deep faced club).

1948-1952-3 Louisville Grand Slam.jpg

1948-1952-3 Louisville Grand Slam (2).jpg

1948-1952-3 Louisville Grand Slam (4).jpg

1955 Louisville Grand Slam.jpg

1955 Louisville Grand Slam (2).jpg

1955 Louisville Grand Slam (4).jpg

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#4 Bella Woods

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 02:55 PM

Blair:

Also a couple of pictures of a 1954 PowerBilt Citation Model 502 Driver and a1957 PowerBilt
Citation Model 403 4 Wood.


1954 PowerBilt Driver.jpg

1954 PowerBilt Driver (3).jpg

1954 PowerBilt Driver (5).jpg

1954 PowerBilt Driver (4).jpg

1957 PowerBilt Citation 4 Wood.jpg

1957 PowerBilt Citation 4 Wood (2).jpg

1957 PowerBilt Citation 4 Wood (3).jpg

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#5 Maxwell

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 10:28 PM

Thanks Bella
Those HB's are really difficult to find and they are sooo....  sharp looking. Have you had a chance to tee-up a HB persimmon wood club and make solid contact with a soft cover ball?
Blair

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#6 Maxwell

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 10:47 PM

Bella - Why the lead plug?
I have had to rebuild only two HB woods but on both, lead plugs had to be re-poured. Is lead a better moisture barrier than epoxied hard wood plugs? Is the lead plugs used as part of the "swing weighting" process?
Blair
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#7 Bella Woods

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 05:09 PM

View PostMaxwell, on 20 November 2010 - 10:28 PM, said:

Thanks Bella
Those HB's are really difficult to find and they are sooo....  sharp looking. Have you had a chance to tee-up a HB persimmon wood club and make solid contact with a soft cover ball?
Blair

Max:

Yes, I play PowerBilt persimmons frequently (usually clubs dated from 1957 to 1967). Although I have been
preoccupied lately with a set of MacGregor Tourney 693s that for some reason I have been hitting very well!

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#8 Bella Woods

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 05:14 PM

View PostMaxwell, on 20 November 2010 - 10:47 PM, said:

Bella - Why the lead plug?
I have had to rebuild only two HB woods but on both, lead plugs had to be re-poured. Is lead a better moisture barrier than epoxied hard wood plugs? Is the lead plugs used as part of the "swing weighting" process?
Blair

Max:

By "plug", are you referring to under the soleplate, or the backweight?

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#9 Maxwell

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 06:30 PM

View PostBella Woods, on 21 November 2010 - 05:14 PM, said:

View PostMaxwell, on 20 November 2010 - 10:47 PM, said:

Bella - Why the lead plug?
I have had to rebuild only two HB woods but on both, lead plugs had to be re-poured. Is lead a better moisture barrier than epoxied hard wood plugs? Is the lead plugs used as part of the "swing weighting" process?
Blair

Max:

By "plug", are you referring to under the soleplate, or the backweight?


Bella -
Neither - where the shaft is visible from the sole plate, my HB's have a lead plug - Max

P.S. - I can post a couple of pictures if you'd like.
"One Day At a Time"

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#10 persimmonpal

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 07:40 PM

View PostMaxwell, on 22 November 2010 - 06:30 PM, said:

View PostBella Woods, on 21 November 2010 - 05:14 PM, said:

View PostMaxwell, on 20 November 2010 - 10:47 PM, said:

Bella - Why the lead plug?
I have had to rebuild only two HB woods but on both, lead plugs had to be re-poured. Is lead a better moisture barrier than epoxied hard wood plugs? Is the lead plugs used as part of the "swing weighting" process?
Blair

Max:

By "plug", are you referring to under the soleplate, or the backweight?


Bella -
Neither - where the shaft is visible from the sole plate, my HB's have a lead plug - Max

P.S. - I can post a couple of pictures if you'd like.
Almost certainly weight.. They could have plugged the bore-through shaft with anything... Plugging it with lead is going to allow them to swingweight it at opportune time in the manufacturing process (from an efficiency standpoint that is...)

Edited by persimmonpal, 22 November 2010 - 07:41 PM.


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#11 Bella Woods

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 11:23 PM

Max:

I must have not been paying attention when you mentioned lead plugs (or thinking about the 1950s wood
models).

I believe the lead plugs were generally an extension of the Hillerich & Bradsby patented "Weight-In- Sole Principle"
on a lot of their clubs from say, the mid to late 1930s to late 1940s.

Since you have the Kaplan H & B catalog, you can see an example of the principle on Page 4 1940 Louisville
Power-Bilt model B94, with the lead plug and the removable weight cap (with weight under it) on the sole
(the club registration number is on the plate).

From what I have gathered, the principle was intended to promote a balanced club head when swinging it
(a form of clubhead weight distribution). Probably would make it easier to get the woods "airborn" as well.

The famous H & B brass backweight was probably related to this to some degree too (in this case weight behind
the ball).

I am sure that what persimmonpal said was probably part of the equation as well, when they finally got around to
actually swingweighting/matching sets.

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#12 '53 Precision

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 04:06 PM

I am posting pictures of the two H&B drivers I have, one does not have any clear on it, I ransomed it out of the bed of a man's truck during a thunderstorm for $5.00, it is all original and appears to be a very solid driver. The other, a Model 701 dating back to 1953 according to Kaplan's book, is in pretty good condition, I don't know if it has been refinished or not, but the grip has been changed.
HB 1a.jpg
HB 1b.jpg
HB 1c.jpg
HB 2a.jpg
HB 2b.jpg
HB 2c.jpg

Edited by '53 Precision, 02 December 2010 - 04:06 PM.


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#13 Big Ben

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 04:20 PM

Hit it on the screws baby! BB :)
Irons: Titleist 918cb's
Drivers: Ping G400
Fairway: Titleist 917F2
Hybrid: A-Grind
2 iron: Ping Rapture
Wedges: Ping Gorge 2.0 Stealth's  
Putter: Toulon Indianapolis
Balls: 2017 B330s

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#14 SeattleGolfer66

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 03:07 PM

Hey HB gurus...here is something I recently came across. I have this driver and a matching 4 wood. Can anyone identify it and help me out? thanks
photo 2.JPG
photo 1.JPG
photo 3.JPG

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#15 Maxwell

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 04:29 PM

View PostSeattleGolfer66, on 27 January 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

Hey HB gurus...here is something I recently came across. I have this driver and a matching 4 wood. Can anyone identify it and help me out? thanks
Attachment photo 2.JPG
Attachment photo 1.JPG
Attachment photo 3.JPG

SG66 - Those two clubs are nice looking and look all business. The one with the "double black diamond"  face insert has a similiar face insert pattern as a 1969-75 HB Model 47 putter I recently acquired. If someone from this web discussion doesn't provide a written answer by tommorrow, I'll "hit the books" for you and see if I can correctly identify it for you. Max

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#16 tembolo1284

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 04:53 PM

Wow! These are so much nicer than all that modern ghosted stuff out now.
Wishon 919 THI 11* 0.5* Open
Wishon 929 HS 14.5*, 19* 0.5 Open
Wishon 775HS 22*, 25*
Wishon 5, 6 560 MC 7-PW MMC MB
Wishon 54, 59 Micro-Groove HM
All shafts are S2S Stepless Steel Wishon

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#17 SeattleGolfer66

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 05:49 PM

View PostMaxwell, on 27 January 2011 - 04:29 PM, said:

View PostSeattleGolfer66, on 27 January 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

Hey HB gurus...here is something I recently came across. I have this driver and a matching 4 wood. Can anyone identify it and help me out? thanks
Attachment photo 2.JPG
Attachment photo 1.JPG
Attachment photo 3.JPG

SG66 - Those two clubs are nice looking and look all business. The one with the "double black diamond"  face insert has a similiar face insert pattern as a 1969-75 HB Model 47 putter I recently acquired. If someone from this web discussion doesn't provide a written answer by tommorrow, I'll "hit the books" for you and see if I can correctly identify it for you. Max


Thanks Max, all three pictures are the same club.  The 4 wood has the same diamond patern and markings as the driver (pictured).  
To be honest, I am thinking of selling all my "modern" gear and going all vintage.

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