37 replies to this topic

[dedezelic]

Just curious, and sorry in advance if this was already coveed somewhere but I can't find it....  The Cameron 009 is like which Ping Anser? Thanks.

[Justin_Ellis]

dedezelic, on 18 October 2010 - 01:48 PM, said:

Just curious, and sorry in advance if this was already coveed somewhere but I can't find it....  The Cameron 009 is like which Ping Anser? Thanks.

I believe the Scottsdale Anser, but I'm not 100% sure.

Edited by Justin_Ellis, 20 October 2010 - 12:19 PM.

[pezcore]

I thought it was closet to the Anser 4... but I am not 100% sure...

Thats my .02 cents!

Hope we find the answer!

[Arafel]

It's like the classic 1960's Scottsdale Anser.  Especially when Cameron adds a sound slot (beached).

[scottland]

It's not a Scottsdale, or an Anser4. It's Cameron's version of the Anser Dale Head. The Dale Head's are quite rare these days.

Byron Morgan also makes a Dale Head Anser (DH89), hence the reason it looks identical to the 009.

They are all copying Mr. Solheim. Byron is much more open and respectful about his DH89 paying homage to the Dale Head. DH89 stands for Dale Head 89.
On the other hand, Scotty thinks he invented the putter as we know it. But that topic is better left for someplace else.

Moral of the story, the 009 is Cameron's milled version of the Anser Dale Head. It's a very nice putter, but very pricey.

Edited by scottland, 18 October 2010 - 04:06 PM.

[newportbeach]

I just ran a search on eBay and it came up with 15 Ping Anser Daleheads.  As mentioned the 009 is Scotty's version of the Dalehead.  You can pick up a Dalehead for a lot cheaper than an 009 although the 009s are very nice and provide an option for no floating face or beach slit.  So the sound/feel will be different.

[Thaddy]

In my opinion, a carbon DH89/009 style head with a sound slot is probably the ultimate putter to own if you're someone who values feedback.  Byron is making me one this week

[entourage2]

Thaddy, on 18 October 2010 - 04:34 PM, said:

In my opinion, a carbon DH89/009 style head with a sound slot is probably the ultimate putter to own if you're someone who values feedback.  Byron is making me one this week

is something like that pretty expensive.  I would like a putter like that but i wonder if it would cost a lot... do they make that style in stainless steel?  How much was your carbon.

I went to his site but i was confused on the 006, 007, and then some of them had "x's" behind the numbers.  There aren't really any pictures for me to visualize any of them.

[Eagle006]

entourage2, on 18 October 2010 - 10:51 PM, said:

Thaddy, on 18 October 2010 - 04:34 PM, said:

In my opinion, a carbon DH89/009 style head with a sound slot is probably the ultimate putter to own if you're someone who values feedback.  Byron is making me one this week

is something like that pretty expensive.  I would like a putter like that but i wonder if it would cost a lot... do they make that style in stainless steel?  How much was your carbon.

I went to his site but i was confused on the 006, 007, and then some of them had "x's" behind the numbers.  There aren't really any pictures for me to visualize any of them.

A Byron DH-89 custom made to you specs, including material, finish, headweight and stampings of your choice will run to about $450 - $500. Significantly less than a 009 and equally good in quality. They do also make them in stainless steel, yes. The 'X' models refer to those Byron putters with rincon or long-pipe hosel necks as opposed to the normal plumbers neck.

I suggest you check out the Byron Morgan boards at PutterTalk.com for more info or PM Z-Man (Steve Zastrow) for more details.

[mrupndown]

Eagle006, on 19 October 2010 - 02:41 AM, said:

entourage2, on 18 October 2010 - 10:51 PM, said:

Thaddy, on 18 October 2010 - 04:34 PM, said:

In my opinion, a carbon DH89/009 style head with a sound slot is probably the ultimate putter to own if you're someone who values feedback.  Byron is making me one this week

is something like that pretty expensive.  I would like a putter like that but i wonder if it would cost a lot... do they make that style in stainless steel?  How much was your carbon.

I went to his site but i was confused on the 006, 007, and then some of them had "x's" behind the numbers.  There aren't really any pictures for me to visualize any of them.

A Byron DH-89 custom made to you specs, including material, finish, headweight and stampings of your choice will run to about $450 - $500. Significantly less than a 009 and equally good in quality. They do also make them in stainless steel, yes. The 'X' models refer to those Byron putters with rincon or long-pipe hosel necks as opposed to the normal plumbers neck.

I suggest you check out the Byron Morgan boards at PutterTalk.com for more info or PM Z-Man (Steve Zastrow) for more details.

here you go...

Attached Thumbnails

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[Arafel]

scottland, on 18 October 2010 - 03:51 PM, said:

It's not a Scottsdale, or an Anser4. It's Cameron's version of the Anser Dale Head. The Dale Head's are quite rare these days.

Byron Morgan also makes a Dale Head Anser (DH89), hence the reason it looks identical to the 009.

They are all copying Mr. Solheim. Byron is much more open and respectful about his DH89 paying homage to the Dale Head. DH89 stands for Dale Head 89.
On the other hand, Scotty thinks he invented the putter as we know it. But that topic is better left for someplace else.

Moral of the story, the 009 is Cameron's milled version of the Anser Dale Head. It's a very nice putter, but very pricey.

Those old putters do get referred to as Scottsdale putters because of the Scottsdale and not Phoenix in the back cavity.  This is why in the 90's the re-issues were called Scottsdale Ansers.  It's a small point I know.

Edited by JASONR5, 19 October 2010 - 11:12 AM.

[Delman]

Eagle006, on 19 October 2010 - 02:41 AM, said:

entourage2, on 18 October 2010 - 10:51 PM, said:

Thaddy, on 18 October 2010 - 04:34 PM, said:

In my opinion, a carbon DH89/009 style head with a sound slot is probably the ultimate putter to own if you're someone who values feedback.  Byron is making me one this week

is something like that pretty expensive.  I would like a putter like that but i wonder if it would cost a lot... do they make that style in stainless steel?  How much was your carbon.

I went to his site but i was confused on the 006, 007, and then some of them had "x's" behind the numbers.  There aren't really any pictures for me to visualize any of them.

A Byron DH-89 custom made to you specs, including material, finish, headweight and stampings of your choice will run to about $450 - $500. Significantly less than a 009 and equally good in quality. They do also make them in stainless steel, yes. The 'X' models refer to those Byron putters with rincon or long-pipe hosel necks as opposed to the normal plumbers neck.

I suggest you check out the Byron Morgan boards at PutterTalk.com for more info or PM Z-Man (Steve Zastrow) for more details.

THE "SURF CITY" putter is soooooooo rad!!!

[ZombieDave]

scottland, on 18 October 2010 - 03:51 PM, said:

he 009.

They are all copying Mr. Solheim. Byron is much more open and respectful about his DH89 paying homage to the Dale Head. DH89 stands for Dale Head 89.
On the other hand, Scotty thinks he invented the putter as we know it. But that topic is better left for someplace else.

I think the name '009' is also a homage to Solheim, in that it is the last three digits of Cameron's zip code, just like the Pings have zip codes (could be wrong on that though!).  Cameron also has a model called the "Scotty Dale", again, a clear Ping reference.

[RobotDoctor]

ZombieDave, on 20 October 2010 - 02:25 PM, said:

scottland, on 18 October 2010 - 03:51 PM, said:

he 009.

They are all copying Mr. Solheim. Byron is much more open and respectful about his DH89 paying homage to the Dale Head. DH89 stands for Dale Head 89.
On the other hand, Scotty thinks he invented the putter as we know it. But that topic is better left for someplace else.

I think the name '009' is also a homage to Solheim, in that it is the last three digits of Cameron's zip code, just like the Pings have zip codes (could be wrong on that though!).  Cameron also has a model called the "Scotty Dale", again, a clear Ping reference.

I respectfully disagree.  The '009' reference is Cameron's reference to his zip code.  Cameron rarely gives homage to any other putter designer and calls his creations "his designs."  While I agree he could reference them as design enhancements, the 009 is hardly Cameron's design, the credit for the design belongs to Karsten Solheim (as does any putter of this style from any manufacturer).

Mr. Solheim never referred to any of his putters by zip code.  Yes, some of the collectors referred to the early Ansers as the 'Scottsdale Anser', the 'Karsten CO Anser' of the 'Dalehead Anser', or more commonly the 'Scottsdale', the 'Karsten CO' of the 'Dalehead'.  It was the collectors that first references the Dalehead as '029', a reference to the zip code 85029 that was in the cavity.

IMO, the reference to 'Scotty Dale' is Cameron's marketing spin taking advantage of the 'Scottsdale', which is Mr. Solheim's design.

[009]

RobotDoctor, on 20 October 2010 - 05:03 PM, said:

ZombieDave, on 20 October 2010 - 02:25 PM, said:

scottland, on 18 October 2010 - 03:51 PM, said:

he 009.

They are all copying Mr. Solheim. Byron is much more open and respectful about his DH89 paying homage to the Dale Head. DH89 stands for Dale Head 89.
On the other hand, Scotty thinks he invented the putter as we know it. But that topic is better left for someplace else.

I think the name '009' is also a homage to Solheim, in that it is the last three digits of Cameron's zip code, just like the Pings have zip codes (could be wrong on that though!).  Cameron also has a model called the "Scotty Dale", again, a clear Ping reference.

I respectfully disagree.  The '009' reference is Cameron's reference to his zip code.  Cameron rarely gives homage to any other putter designer and calls his creations "his designs."  While I agree he could reference them as design enhancements, the 009 is hardly Cameron's design, the credit for the design belongs to Karsten Solheim (as does any putter of this style from any manufacturer).

Mr. Solheim never referred to any of his putters by zip code.  Yes, some of the collectors referred to the early Ansers as the 'Scottsdale Anser', the 'Karsten CO Anser' of the 'Dalehead Anser', or more commonly the 'Scottsdale', the 'Karsten CO' of the 'Dalehead'.  It was the collectors that first references the Dalehead as '029', a reference to the zip code 85029 that was in the cavity.

IMO, the reference to 'Scotty Dale' is Cameron's marketing spin taking advantage of the 'Scottsdale', which is Mr. Solheim's design.

I agree with ZombieDave on this.  I think Cameron's use of 'Scoty Dale', '009', '029', 'Cameron & Co.' stampings are his way to giving credit and homage to Karsten Solheim.  He only uses those Ping related stamps on his Anser style putters.  And when I see those stamps, they remind me of Ping Anser putters.  If Cameron wanted to claim the Anser style as his own design, I would think he would not make any stamps that have direct references to Ping Anser putters.

[Redman]

009, on 20 October 2010 - 11:32 PM, said:

RobotDoctor, on 20 October 2010 - 05:03 PM, said:

ZombieDave, on 20 October 2010 - 02:25 PM, said:

scottland, on 18 October 2010 - 03:51 PM, said:

he 009.

They are all copying Mr. Solheim. Byron is much more open and respectful about his DH89 paying homage to the Dale Head. DH89 stands for Dale Head 89.
On the other hand, Scotty thinks he invented the putter as we know it. But that topic is better left for someplace else.

I think the name '009' is also a homage to Solheim, in that it is the last three digits of Cameron's zip code, just like the Pings have zip codes (could be wrong on that though!).  Cameron also has a model called the "Scotty Dale", again, a clear Ping reference.

I respectfully disagree.  The '009' reference is Cameron's reference to his zip code.  Cameron rarely gives homage to any other putter designer and calls his creations "his designs."  While I agree he could reference them as design enhancements, the 009 is hardly Cameron's design, the credit for the design belongs to Karsten Solheim (as does any putter of this style from any manufacturer).

Mr. Solheim never referred to any of his putters by zip code.  Yes, some of the collectors referred to the early Ansers as the 'Scottsdale Anser', the 'Karsten CO Anser' of the 'Dalehead Anser', or more commonly the 'Scottsdale', the 'Karsten CO' of the 'Dalehead'.  It was the collectors that first references the Dalehead as '029', a reference to the zip code 85029 that was in the cavity.

IMO, the reference to 'Scotty Dale' is Cameron's marketing spin taking advantage of the 'Scottsdale', which is Mr. Solheim's design.

I agree with ZombieDave on this.  I think Cameron's use of 'Scoty Dale', '009', '029', 'Cameron & Co.' stampings are his way to giving credit and homage to Karsten Solheim.  He only uses those Ping related stamps on his Anser style putters.  And when I see those stamps, they remind me of Ping Anser putters.  If Cameron wanted to claim the Anser style as his own design, I would think he would not make any stamps that have direct references to Ping Anser putters.

I agree.  These are just as much giving credit to Karsten as the DH89 or the BB0.  At least its the way I see it and I've been very critical of Cameron's "marketing".

[mayes]

[quote name='Redman' timestamp='1287639064' post='2752335']
[quote name='009' timestamp='1287635528' post='2752297']
[quote name='RobotDoctor' timestamp='1287612216' post='2751811']
[quote name='ZombieDave' timestamp='1287602732' post='2751591']
[quote name='scottland' timestamp='1287435100' post='2748540']he 009.

They are all copying Mr. Solheim. Byron is much more open and respectful about his DH89 paying homage to the Dale Head. DH89 stands for Dale Head 89.
On the other hand, Scotty thinks he invented the putter as we know it. But that topic is better left for someplace else.
[/quote]

I think the name '009' is also a homage to Solheim, in that it is the last three digits of Cameron's zip code, just like the Pings have zip codes (could be wrong on that though!).  Cameron also has a model called the "Scotty Dale", again, a clear Ping reference.
[/quote]

I respectfully disagree.  The '009' reference is Cameron's reference to his zip code.  Cameron rarely gives homage to any other putter designer and calls his creations "his designs."  While I agree he could reference them as design enhancements, the 009 is hardly Cameron's design, the credit for the design belongs to Karsten Solheim (as does any putter of this style from any manufacturer).

Mr. Solheim never referred to any of his putters by zip code.  Yes, some of the collectors referred to the early Ansers as the 'Scottsdale Anser', the 'Karsten CO Anser' of the 'Dalehead Anser', or more commonly the 'Scottsdale', the 'Karsten CO' of the 'Dalehead'.  It was the collectors that first references the Dalehead as '029', a reference to the zip code 85029 that was in the cavity.

IMO, the reference to 'Scotty Dale' is Cameron's marketing spin taking advantage of the 'Scottsdale', which is Mr. Solheim's design.
[/quote]

I agree with ZombieDave on this.  I think Cameron's use of 'Scoty Dale', '009', '029', 'Cameron & Co.' stampings are his way to giving credit and homage to Karsten Solheim.  He only uses those Ping related stamps on his Anser style putters.  And when I see those stamps, they remind me of Ping Anser putters.  If Cameron wanted to claim the Anser style as his own design, I would think he would not make any stamps that have direct references to Ping Anser putters.
[/quote]

I agree.  These are just as much giving credit to Karsten as the DH89 or the BB0.  At least its the way I see it and I've been very critical of Cameron's "marketing".
[/quote]

It used to be on Cameron's website (still might be somewhere) that the 009 and Scotty Dale were a tribute to Solheim/Ping.  The ping zip ended in 029.  Cameron used his zip 009.  This is likely where ZombieDave & 009 remember this information, but could not confidently remember the source.

[Pure745]

I've also been noticing Byron using "GSS", "029", "Byron & Co.", cherry bombs, and other stampings that are very similar/the same as what Cameron has been using.

I was browsing the Byron forums on another site and it struck me as pretty odd.. but I guess the Japanese collectors get whatever stampings they want.

I understand the headshapes being the same, but the stampings too?  Either way, the putters are very nice.

[Z-Man]

There are reasons for the similarities

The "& Co." portion refers to Mike-san's, Byron's Japanese distributor, company. I guess the name is actually Co rather than the typical western shortening for Company.

The 029 has been used for the past 4 years on all of the Japanese putters

Mike actually was the first person to ask Cameron to put a cherry dot on a putter... I guess that is another story I won`t get into

One thing I will mention.. Byron stamps putters the way you ask for them.. Its you the customer that wants it that way

[kints]

Lets not forget that  &Co is from Tiffany's, NOT Scotty., just the way that every putter is a take off of a Karsten.......

[Pure745]

kints, on 22 October 2010 - 11:29 AM, said:

Lets not forget that  &Co is from Tiffany's, NOT Scotty., just the way that every putter is a take off of a Karsten.......

I think (but may be wrong) that Scotty did the & Co. for a line of putters that had sterling silver inserts (hence the tribute or whatever you want to call it towards Tiffany's).. and then carried over to the GSS line...

Again, not sure exactly why Byron is doing the "GSS" and the "& Co.", but it must have been requested by someone in Japan.

I already knew that a lot of SC and pretty much every other putter maker has Karsten inspired head styles..

[kints]

These putters were ordered.  GSS is the material....and the first Co. on a putter was the Karsten Co. on the Ping Anser.

[Babycakes]

Finally... someone has the facts straight!!!

[stage1350]

The 009 is like a DH-89.  In fact, almost EXACTLY like a DH-89.  Time wise, the DH-89 came first, so do the math...

[zzy]

It never ceases to amaze how utterly shameless SC is in ripping off designs.  I mean, at least make SOME TINY change from the original!  In no other industry can you get away with that and still command such a markup.  Pure respect to his marketing brilliance.

[ZombieDave]

Funny that this thread got bumped today - I was just looking at the anserfreak website, and thought about this thread.  

According to that site the Dalehead Anser looks identical to (what they call) the Scottsdale Anser flat sole model, with the Scottsdale Anser rocker sole being the same shape as the reissued Scottsdale Ansers.

[NWS Alpine]

stage1350, on 11 May 2011 - 09:59 AM, said:

The 009 is like a DH-89.  In fact, almost EXACTLY like a DH-89.  Time wise, the DH-89 came first, so do the math...

Would just like to post this again so people realize the DH89 did come first.  The DH89 is so nice but just sold mine.  I can't get away from the fastback right now.  Need Byron to make me a custom mid mallet.

[finalist]

Z-Man, on 22 October 2010 - 08:43 AM, said:

Mike actually was the first person to ask Cameron to put a cherry dot on a putter... I guess that is another story I won`t get into

WOW! The fact that it was Mike slipped by me the first time I read this thread. I've talked to Byron about the Cherry dots and Circle T having Japanese sales origins rather than the story Cameron puts out.

For those who don't know... Mike is Byron's Japanese distributor and sales a ton of putters to the Asian market.

Also, Regarding the timeline above for the DH89 versus the 009. Byron had the D11 which is almost identical to the 009 before Cameron released the 009. Originally the two putters were milled at the same place, but Byron's came first. Somehow Cameron ended up with a VERY similar CAD file after seeing the DH11.

[Redman]

zzy, on 11 May 2011 - 10:14 AM, said:

It never ceases to amaze how utterly shameless SC is in ripping off designs.  I mean, at least make SOME TINY change from the original!  In no other industry can you get away with that and still command such a markup.  Pure respect to his marketing brilliance.

As does EVERY other putter maker when it comes to the Anser style putters.  It's not just Cameron.

[zzy]

Redman, on 11 May 2011 - 09:15 PM, said:

zzy, on 11 May 2011 - 10:14 AM, said:

It never ceases to amaze how utterly shameless SC is in ripping off designs.  I mean, at least make SOME TINY change from the original!  In no other industry can you get away with that and still command such a markup.  Pure respect to his marketing brilliance.

As does EVERY other putter maker when it comes to the Anser style putters.  It's not just Cameron.

Agreed, but he also ripped off TP Mills for his Circa line.  His original designs are the ones everyone hates too (Detour, etc.).