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Stack & Tilt (merged)


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#31 scratch72

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 11:24 AM

Can anyone answer post #21


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#32 WesleyD

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 12:04 PM

View Postscratch72, on 06 September 2010 - 11:24 AM, said:

Can anyone answer post #21

http://www.orrgolf.c...owerpack3n4.wmv

I believe you're talking about power accumulator #4, or the angle between the left arm and the left shoulder.

#33 KYGolfer11

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 08:53 PM

I was directed here from another thread about Sean Foley...

I was just wondering what the 'Charlie Wi' drill is that Tiger is supposedly doing?  Is this different than the shaft at the back of the head or the glove under the right arm drill? Thanks.

#34 logan91201

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 09:28 PM

View PostKYGolfer11, on 06 September 2010 - 08:53 PM, said:

I was directed here from another thread about Sean Foley...

I was just wondering what the 'Charlie Wi' drill is that Tiger is supposedly doing?  Is this different than the shaft at the back of the head or the glove under the right arm drill? Thanks.

Yes it is a drill for the backswing pivot.  Breaks down the extension, side tilt, and turn into three separate moves.  The golf channel showed Foley demonstrating it to Tiger literally a hundred times.

#35 KYGolfer11

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 09:35 PM

View Postlogan91201, on 06 September 2010 - 09:28 PM, said:

View PostKYGolfer11, on 06 September 2010 - 08:53 PM, said:

I was directed here from another thread about Sean Foley...

I was just wondering what the 'Charlie Wi' drill is that Tiger is supposedly doing?  Is this different than the shaft at the back of the head or the glove under the right arm drill? Thanks.

Yes it is a drill for the backswing pivot.  Breaks down the extension, side tilt, and turn into three separate moves.  The golf channel showed Foley demonstrating it to Tiger literally a hundred times.

You'll have to forgive me in advance... what exactly IS the drill?


#36 scratch72

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 01:48 PM

View Postsbguard9, on 06 September 2010 - 12:04 PM, said:

View Postscratch72, on 06 September 2010 - 11:24 AM, said:

Can anyone answer post #21

http://www.orrgolf.c...owerpack3n4.wmv

I believe you're talking about power accumulator #4, or the angle between the left arm and the left shoulder.

Sbguard9, I cant get your link to work, even tryed to type it in and still wouldnt work. Is there another way to get there? Doesnt seem to be any instructors visiting this thread.

#37 iteachgolf

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 02:18 PM

View Postscratch72, on 01 September 2010 - 12:25 PM, said:

Dana, In the SnT book they say they want the hands and arms to move away from right shoulder on the down swing. Does this mean there is intentional pull and if so is that pull straight down towards your right foot? Thanks
Just means the right arm straightens incrementally in the downswing. Motion down out and forward on plane. Not just straight down.

#38 kevcarter

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 02:34 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 07 September 2010 - 02:18 PM, said:

View Postscratch72, on 01 September 2010 - 12:25 PM, said:

Dana, In the SnT book they say they want the hands and arms to move away from right shoulder on the down swing. Does this mean there is intentional pull and if so is that pull straight down towards your right foot? Thanks
Just means the right arm straightens incrementally in the downswing. Motion down out and forward on plane. Not just straight down.

Teach, in S&T are both #4 and #1 releasing incrementally from the start of the down stroke? Is there any more focus on one or the other, or player preference?

Thanks,
Kevin
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#39 kevcarter

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 02:41 PM

Another question for the S&T guys.

If trying to learn the model, is it OK to set up with the left wrist level at address? Sometimes it seems when guys are setting up on the elbow plane, the left wrist is a little cocked?

Important or player preference?

Thanks again,
Kevin
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#40 iteachgolf

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 02:49 PM

Preference.

4 and 1 both incrementally. Focus is up to you and many don't have to focus on it all. Some need to feel like they are held longer/ release slower


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#41 ironmikes

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 04:05 PM

I have been reading up on the S&T  lot on this board and appreciate all of the information. most of the teachers are referring to P1 , P 2 etc... where can I find a reference as to where each position is in reference to their number and and example of what we are trying to attempt in each ? thanks for any help that can be provided. thank you

#42 kevcarter

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 04:08 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 07 September 2010 - 02:49 PM, said:

Preference.

4 and 1 both incrementally. Focus is up to you and many don't have to focus on it all. Some need to feel like they are held longer/ release slower

Thanks Man!

Kevin
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#43 frank gasaway

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 06:10 PM

View Postavrag, on 04 September 2010 - 10:07 AM, said:

I used to have a very shallow angle of attack, combined with an early release of the clubhead. This resulted in a very inconsistent low point. I have tried to add some elements of the S&T model to my swing lately, and it has helped tremendoulsy. I say "some elements", because I simply cannot keep my weight completely on the front foot in the backswing. A slight pressing down with my back foot has always been my swing trigger, and I do not want to change that.
My irons shots are longer and a lot more consistent now, and turning more "over" the ball has also helped with my driving.
But: I cannot hit fairway woods off the deck at all when using this motion. This has always been one the best parts of my game, so I am confused. I have to go back to the "roundhouse" swing to hit the fairway woods consistently.
Why could that be?
Another problem I have is with spine extension and left tilt in the backswing. It feel like all the weight goes onto my toes, and I do not like that.
What could help?
I should add that I live in Central Europe, and as far as I know, there are absolutely no S&T teachers here, so everything I do comes from the P&B book and from videos on the internet.


Can you post a video ?

#44 scratch72

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 07:13 PM

Really digging SnT. My shots are all long and straight thru the bag couldnt be happier thanks to Dana, iteach and others.If I have a bad shot its a pull with all clubs. My question is why in the hell cant I hit a push draw? If I open the club face more I just hit straight push and if I weaken my grip I get the same Push. Any ideas?

#45 iteachgolf

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 08:01 PM

Not swinging out long enough. Not sure why without seeing it


#46 scratch72

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 10:06 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 07 September 2010 - 08:01 PM, said:

Not swinging out long enough. Not sure why without seeing it

I think thats it because I gave up on trying to swing out longer because I couldnt understand how to swing out further and still stay connected.

#47 mvmac

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 10:09 PM

View Postironmikes, on 07 September 2010 - 04:05 PM, said:

I have been reading up on the S&T  lot on this board and appreciate all of the information. most of the teachers are referring to P1 , P 2 etc... where can I find a reference as to where each position is in reference to their number and and example of what we are trying to attempt in each ? thanks for any help that can be provided. thank you

here is a list of basic S&T terms and some good resources on to how to implement them
S&T Basics

Edited by mvmac, 07 September 2010 - 10:10 PM.


#48 WesleyD

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 10:22 PM

View Postscratch72, on 07 September 2010 - 01:48 PM, said:

View Postsbguard9, on 06 September 2010 - 12:04 PM, said:

View Postscratch72, on 06 September 2010 - 11:24 AM, said:

Can anyone answer post #21

http://www.orrgolf.c...owerpack3n4.wmv

I believe you're talking about power accumulator #4, or the angle between the left arm and the left shoulder.

Sbguard9, I cant get your link to work, even tryed to type it in and still wouldnt work. Is there another way to get there? Doesnt seem to be any instructors visiting this thread.

Scratch, here's a link to the thread I found that on.  Helpful stuff!  

http://www.golfwrx.c..._1#entry1472018

That should work, let me know what you think!

#49 Bbonneau13

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 11:31 PM

Not to be rude but is anyone going to answer kygolfer about this charlie/tiger drill? Is it with the shaft against the head? Is it the glove under the right arm? Is it something else????????????

#50 iteachgolf

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 11:59 PM

it was already answered by Logan.  It's in the book.  It's simply separating the extension, turn and side tilt in to 3 seperate movments.


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#51 mvmac

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 12:36 AM

View Postiteachgolf, on 07 September 2010 - 11:59 PM, said:

it was already answered by Logan.  It's in the book.  It's simply separating the extension, turn and side tilt in to 3 seperate movments.




Edited by mvmac, 08 September 2010 - 12:37 AM.


#52 avrag

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 02:59 AM

View Postfrank gasaway, on 07 September 2010 - 06:10 PM, said:

View Postavrag, on 04 September 2010 - 10:07 AM, said:

I used to have a very shallow angle of attack, combined with an early release of the clubhead. This resulted in a very inconsistent low point.
[..]
I should add that I live in Central Europe, and as far as I know, there are absolutely no S&T teachers here, so everything I do comes from the P&B book and from videos on the internet.


Can you post a video ?

Sorry, not yet. Seems like I will finally have to get that Casio if I want to really use the knowledge of people on this forum.
I see a gap. There definitely is a gap.

#53 frank gasaway

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 11:42 AM

View Postavrag, on 04 September 2010 - 10:07 AM, said:

I used to have a very shallow angle of attack, combined with an early release of the clubhead. This resulted in a very inconsistent low point. I have tried to add some elements of the S&T model to my swing lately, and it has helped tremendoulsy. I say "some elements", because I simply cannot keep my weight completely on the front foot in the backswing. A slight pressing down with my back foot has always been my swing trigger, and I do not want to change that.
My irons shots are longer and a lot more consistent now, and turning more "over" the ball has also helped with my driving.
But: I cannot hit fairway woods off the deck at all when using this motion. This has always been one the best parts of my game, so I am confused. I have to go back to the "roundhouse" swing to hit the fairway woods consistently.
Why could that be?
Another problem I have is with spine extension and left tilt in the backswing. It feel like all the weight goes onto my toes, and I do not like that.
What could help?
I should add that I live in Central Europe, and as far as I know, there are absolutely no S&T teachers here, so everything I do comes from the P&B book and from videos on the internet.

Without video it's hard so I will try my best without.

Lets start with spine extension and left tilt and this might solve all the issues. Sounds like to me too much weight forward at address , shoulders to level and hands to far in. This is a common issues if you are not using a camera to monitor.

1. Practice the Elk Drill set up ( right leg straight with right hip shifted to the right Clearwater may have a video) make sure your shoulders have turned down steep enough and hips have enough slant. Your right rib cage should feel longer or stretched  at the top or P4 . I have student practice and play  from this drill it's great if you turn shoulders steep enough.

2 Weight at address should be 55/45 front foot and continue to increase to 70 / 30 as you reach the top P4 ..... keep pressing weight on the front foot to the finish.

3. Put tees under your arm pits with the correct shoulder path (steep) the  hands should stay on the circle

4. Because the Elk Drill will put your centers more forward you will need to make sure with the longer clubs your hips are moving linear the most and you are tucking your tail bone under enough. These two things will help shift your second spine tilt back enough and allow for good extension. Dave at golf evolution on youtube  has a great driver video

Hope this helps . Without video it's hard to get a good grasp but the info I gave you can't do any harm even if I did't nail down your current issues.

Edited by frank gasaway, 08 September 2010 - 11:47 AM.


#54 petter7

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 02:50 PM

View Postfrank gasaway, on 08 September 2010 - 11:42 AM, said:

Because the Elk Drill will put your centers more forward you will need to make sure with the longer clubs your hips are moving linear the most and you are tucking your tail bone under enough. These two things will help shift your second spine tilt back enough and allow for good extension. Dave at golf evolution on youtube  has a great driver video



#55 scratch72

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 03:28 PM

View Postsbguard9, on 07 September 2010 - 10:22 PM, said:

View Postscratch72, on 07 September 2010 - 01:48 PM, said:

View Postsbguard9, on 06 September 2010 - 12:04 PM, said:

View Postscratch72, on 06 September 2010 - 11:24 AM, said:

Can anyone answer post #21

http://www.orrgolf.c...owerpack3n4.wmv

I believe you're talking about power accumulator #4, or the angle between the left arm and the left shoulder.

Sbguard9, I cant get your link to work, even tryed to type it in and still wouldnt work. Is there another way to get there? Doesnt seem to be any instructors visiting this thread.

Scratch, here's a link to the thread I found that on.  Helpful stuff!  

http://www.golfwrx.c..._1#entry1472018

That should work, let me know what you think!

Wow, Thanks Sbguard9 those were great. I cant believe Ive never seen them before.
Really explains alot.


#56 avrag

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 04:44 PM

View Postfrank gasaway, on 08 September 2010 - 11:42 AM, said:

View Postavrag, on 04 September 2010 - 10:07 AM, said:


My irons shots are longer and a lot more consistent now, and turning more "over" the ball has also helped with my driving.
But: I cannot hit fairway woods off the deck at all when using this motion. This has always been one the best parts of my game, so I am confused.
Another problem I have is with spine extension and left tilt in the backswing. It feel like all the weight goes onto my toes, and I do not like that.


Without video it's hard so I will try my best without.



Hope this helps . Without video it's hard to get a good grasp but the info I gave you can't do any harm even if I did't nail down your current issues.

Thank you very much for your effort. I have found the video about the "Elk" drill, and I will try the things you suggested. I already had a suspicion that there was not enough forward motion with the hips when I hit the fairway woods so badly.
Thank's again.

P.S,: I can actually remember seeing Elkington do this, which looked really strange at the time.

Edited by avrag, 08 September 2010 - 04:57 PM.

I see a gap. There definitely is a gap.

#57 Meyer_R9

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 06:19 PM

Hello all, First post, I've been golfing off and on for about 10 yrs and just started to get really serious again. I think I have a pretty good grasp on the conventional method of swinging but tend to push alot of shots right. I dont feel I'm as consistant as I'd like to be either. I've been reading up on this S&T swing for some time and decided to give it a try today. I tried to make sure I was straightening my right leg quick on the back swing (I'm right handed) and tried to get the feeling of swinging inside my body (clubhead inside my shoulders) At impact I found myself pushing a lot of shots worse than before but they started to slowly get better and had some great ball flight. I was hitting my PW about 140-150yrds which is if not further than before. Any idea what was causing me to push the ball almost straight right off the club face? Am I not getting my hands far enough in front of the ball? Also I dont feel like my divot in front of the ball is that great. Divot almost starts right after the ball and about 4 inches long.

Sorry so much information and no video. I'll try to get a video on my iphone as quick as I can. Thanks for any input.

#58 frank gasaway

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 07:37 PM

View Postavrag, on 08 September 2010 - 04:44 PM, said:

View Postfrank gasaway, on 08 September 2010 - 11:42 AM, said:

View Postavrag, on 04 September 2010 - 10:07 AM, said:


My irons shots are longer and a lot more consistent now, and turning more "over" the ball has also helped with my driving.
But: I cannot hit fairway woods off the deck at all when using this motion. This has always been one the best parts of my game, so I am confused.
Another problem I have is with spine extension and left tilt in the backswing. It feel like all the weight goes onto my toes, and I do not like that.


Without video it's hard so I will try my best without.



Hope this helps . Without video it's hard to get a good grasp but the info I gave you can't do any harm even if I did't nail down your current issues.

Thank you very much for your effort. I have found the video about the "Elk" drill, and I will try the things you suggested. I already had a suspicion that there was not enough forward motion with the hips when I hit the fairway woods so badly.
Thank's again.

P.S,: I can actually remember seeing Elkington do this, which looked really strange at the time.



Let us know how it goes and post a video if you get a camera. You owe me a Guiness if I'm ever across the pond and if Clearwater is with me he requires 18 or what ever the legal age is year old blondes.

#59 ironmikes

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 07:48 PM

View Postmvmac, on 07 September 2010 - 10:09 PM, said:

View Postironmikes, on 07 September 2010 - 04:05 PM, said:

I have been reading up on the S&T  lot on this board and appreciate all of the information. most of the teachers are referring to P1 , P 2 etc... where can I find a reference as to where each position is in reference to their number and and example of what we are trying to attempt in each ? thanks for any help that can be provided. thank you

here is a list of basic S&T terms and some good resources on to how to implement them
S&T Basics




Thanks for the link, it is interesting. I had another member send me a nice pdf as well to help me get more technical idea of what everybody is trying to achieve. I just need to hook up with somebody in the know to give me a second opinion on what I really need to work on. I prefers a hands on in person approach as I need to feel my swing changes in order to groove it. thanks again to everybody who contributes to us golfers trying to make our swing more repeatable and dependable.

#60 mikeyshine

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 09:35 AM

A few questions:

What is the typical miss with the Stack & Tilt model?

What do the other patterns that Plummer & Bennett use look like? Any video?

The model that Nick Clearwater shows on his youtube channel has the hands a little bit forward at address(impact fix). Is it ok to setup using standard address with lower hands (I guess with more forward flexion)?

Thanks


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