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Stack & Tilt (merged)


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#1891 Lburglefty

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:44 AM

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping that the strap would adjust, so you could tighten them. If they are only one size, that makes sense that you would almost have to separate the elbows to keep it tight.

I've used a deflated volleyball, which I assume is the same thing as the impact ball. It just doesn't seem to help me. But that may be because I'm so off with my connection haha. I may just need to keep rehearsing it until I get it.

In regards to the grip, I have made a few changes as the model prescribes. (I am left handed so this will be backwards for most of you)
I have changed my right hand, so that the heel pad is more on top of the club. I do have a question about the left hand (right hand for most of you). I have always heard the lower hand grip is to be way in the fingers. Basically across the middle joints in the fingers. I have been rereading the SnT book and it says that the club should be across the joints where the fingers meet the palm. Any thoughts on either of these suggestions? Also, the book only suggests a vardon or overlap grip. Is an interlock grip not recommended for people attempting to follow the SnT model?







#1892 Etzwane

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:50 PM

As far as the grip is concerned, I'd take this from TGM (I don't know if S&T instructors would have their students do that though): assume an impact position and grip the club there with your front arm hanging naturally, with the rear elbow where you want to have it  and the rear forearm on plane with the shaft. This is called Impact Fix in TGM. You can then go back to your usual adress position without loosing the grip and feel how the grip is formed and where your rear elbow is.

#1893 HiSpeed48

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:17 PM

Just wanted to give my opinion:

S&T has worked really well for me so far. I bought the book and started working on my swing on September 28th, and since then I've played 17 rounds and I've hit thousands of balls on the range. I had a terrible slice before, but now I hit the ball dead straight and sometimes with a small draw. Consistency has been my biggest improvement; a bad approach shot for me before S&T would put me Out of Bounds or into the adjacent fairway, but now I'm usually no more than 10 yds off the green. I hit 8 GIR's yesterday (out of 15 holes on a course I've never played before), my highest ever, and 5 of those came during a 6 hole stretch. I am going to work very hard on my putting over the winter (had 7 3-putts yesterday) and I hope to shoot at least one round in the 70's by the end of next year.
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#1894 SPARKP

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:42 PM

View PostEtzwane, on 19 October 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

As far as the grip is concerned, I'd take this from TGM (I don't know if S&T instructors would have their students do that though): assume an impact position and grip the club there with your front arm hanging naturally, with the rear elbow where you want to have it  and the rear forearm on plane with the shaft. This is called Impact Fix in TGM. You can then go back to your usual adress position without loosing the grip and feel how the grip is formed and where your rear elbow is.


Just as an FYI and this may or may not help. But I have been doing the S/T now for several months with great success. I use an overlap grip and it is a strong grip, especially with the right hand. I am a right handed golfer.

Edited by SPARKP, 13 November 2012 - 05:43 PM.

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#1895 aimleft

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:39 PM

I recently decided to give S&T at try. I started golf this season and quickly settled on Jim Hardy's 1 plane swing because it was very similar to my natural swing. I practiced hard and got myself down to under 90 with only 10 rounds this year. However, I always struggles with hitting fat shots and when I was hitting the ball the best, I felt like I was doing more of my own thing rather than what Mr. Hardy suggests. I was drown to S&T because I believe that getting the weight more forward is the solution to my problems. I have the dvds but I also have a couple of questions.

1.When i try to move the weight 90% on my front leg at impact, I either push the ball or hit a  "deflected" hook. I know this is because I roll the club open in the backswing and sometimes fail to close it or overclose it on the downswing. Anyone have any drill to help with forearm rotation in the backswing or control on the downswing?

2. The extension and flexion on the backswing and downswing give me the FEEL that i am bobbing my head up and  down. How long does it  take for this to start to feel normal?


Thanks


#1896 golfingfool

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:30 PM

I gave S&T a shot for about a year and just could not find any consistency with it. I love the concepts but I just could not do it on a regular basis. I'm back to working with an Ernest Jones style teacher and Lake Merced Country Club and love it!! It's a lot simpler method IMO. I don't have a big checklist to go through anymore.

#1897 bell812

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:40 PM

Weight forward, hands in. Big checklist.

#1898 CHRIS509

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:42 AM

View Postbell812, on 18 November 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Weight forward, hands in. Big checklist.

Best reply of the year.

#1899 MizunoJoe

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:12 PM

View Postbell812, on 18 November 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Weight forward, hands in. Big checklist.

It's a lot bigger if you don't leave most of them out -

Shoulder down

Straighten leg

Arms straight

Tuck hips

#1900 bell812

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:03 AM

View PostMizunoJoe, on 19 November 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

View Postbell812, on 18 November 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Weight forward, hands in. Big checklist.

It's a lot bigger if you don't leave most of them out -

Shoulder down

Straighten leg

Arms straight

Tuck hips

True enough. However, if you're thinking about all that, you're gonna be thinking about a lot of things no matter what you're trying to do. Checklists are for working on the range. I'll add this, S&T can be boiled down to 10 words. That's pretty simple. Work on what you need.


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#1901 HiSpeed48

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:45 PM

Most of the "checklist" becomes second nature anyway, but you have to be willing to put in the time and stay committed.
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#1902 dana dahlquist

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:59 PM

Most people in general no matter what your doing will work on less than four things. Many things may have interrelations to each other. If your working on a Stable axis golf swing, just make sure your diagnosing the right pieces.

#1903 rwill522

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:59 PM

Ok, I just got the S/T book and am on my way to really making a commitment to this.  I have a few questions for the experts here: 1. Does the right knee straighten out as I begin the backswing to help allow the inside movement of the hands? 2. I am notorious for having a long swing, so how do I work to shorten the backswing? 3. I played the other day with some good success considering it was my 1st shot at S/T, but I had a tendency to hit some moon balls straight up.  Why might that be?  Thanks for the help, I am super excited to give this a great shot.

#1904 Lburglefty

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:59 PM

View Postrwill522, on 26 November 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

Ok, I just got the S/T book and am on my way to really making a commitment to this.  I have a few questions for the experts here: 1. Does the right knee straighten out as I begin the backswing to help allow the inside movement of the hands? 2. I am notorious for having a long swing, so how do I work to shorten the backswing? 3. I played the other day with some good success considering it was my 1st shot at S/T, but I had a tendency to hit some moon balls straight up.  Why might that be?  Thanks for the help, I am super excited to give this a great shot.

Hey rwill,

I wouldn't say I'm an expert, but I will try and help you some. The straigthening the right leg serves a couple purposes. One of them is to give your hands more room to travel inside. But, the biggest reason is for power. When you keep your right knee flex, you restrict your hip and shoulder turn. So the point is to straighten your knee in order to be able to increase your hip and shoulder turn. Keep in mind that you do not want to lock your right leg, but simply to let it lose some of its flex on the backswing. I fight the long swing as well, so this is something I know well. My problem, and I would assume yours, is that my arms lose connection with the body and lift up and off of my ribcage after my body has stopped turning. There are some great drills in the book for this. My favorite is to put a tee under each armpit and keep them there throughout the entire swing. This will feel very restricting at first. If you keep at it, however, it will become more natural. I am not sure about the moon balls. My guess would be that your angle of attack is too steep. Therefore, you are putting excess spin of the ball, causing it to shoot up in the air. If this is the case, I would work on the hipslide in the downswing and really trying to tuck your butt on the follow through. The book goes into both these thing quite extensively. I hope I helped a little. If you could post a couple of your swings, I think that would help everyone diagnose your issues a little more accurately.

#1905 aimleft

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:05 PM

I have began to notice that when I really go after one, I fail to get back into foward flexion at I move from p4-pp6.  When should I start comming out of foward flexion? In the new DVD the graphs indicate quite a bit of foward flexion at impact. I was thinking about doing some slow motion work  in which i go into flexion and pause at p6. Then work on extending like a mad man through p9. What say the experts? Something tells me that  p4-p5 should be a return to flexion and the p5-p9 is the extending part.

Any drill to help engrain the feeling of going back into flexion on the downswing?


#1906 chrisgilly09

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:43 AM

I've been told its at 6 or just after that but the regaining flexion part is right.

Prolly been answered up here somewheres but...does anyone feel from a DTL view the hip slide actually causes the hip turn to happen automatically? What I mean is:  I can go fully linear with hips and when it can't go forward anymore, the L hip begins to move out of the way. My problem is to rotate too soon and get my butt off the wall with a high R hip + no sidetilt. Musings here...

I know the 2nd tilt helps rotation but I guess I never put 2+2 together lol, thanks for the help

Edited by chrisgilly09, 14 December 2012 - 01:45 AM.


#1907 OspreyCI

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 10:20 PM

View Postdachtor, on 21 February 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

What are some drills for "goat humpers"? (insert joke here)

Seriously, I lose my spine angle in the downswing and my rear end gets closer to the ball.
+1, like to know this one too.
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#1908 rok78

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 08:45 PM

View PostOspreyCI, on 25 December 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

View Postdachtor, on 21 February 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

What are some drills for "goat humpers"? (insert joke here)

Seriously, I lose my spine angle in the downswing and my rear end gets closer to the ball.
+1, like to know this one too.

I know of no other drills better than slow motion to fast motion, exaggerating the feel to make the change occur faster. But losing "spine angle" is just the extension piece happening too early and it not matching up with the rotation and side bending. I don't know what the feel would be to you because I'm not in your body, but I would experiment with the opposite problem until you find a middle ground by rotating and right side bending at a faster rate than the extension part.

One example would be to make slow motion swings while literally not let your right hip get any closer to the ball than it's position at the top of the backswing. This is an exaggeration of what would really happen and may help facilitate a change.
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#1909 PingG10guy

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 04:55 AM

Looking for some good sources regarding the amount of external rotation in the hips at address.

Any info out there?  I see some of the good snt guys with the lead hip more externally rotated than the other.  Why?

#1910 thekru

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:36 PM

View Postrok78, on 30 December 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

View PostOspreyCI, on 25 December 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

View Postdachtor, on 21 February 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

What are some drills for "goat humpers"? (insert joke here)

Seriously, I lose my spine angle in the downswing and my rear end gets closer to the ball.
+1, like to know this one too.

I know of no other drills better than slow motion to fast motion, exaggerating the feel to make the change occur faster. But losing "spine angle" is just the extension piece happening too early and it not matching up with the rotation and side bending. I don't know what the feel would be to you because I'm not in your body, but I would experiment with the opposite problem until you find a middle ground by rotating and right side bending at a faster rate than the extension part.

One example would be to make slow motion swings while literally not let your right hip get any closer to the ball than it's position at the top of the backswing. This is an exaggeration of what would really happen and may help facilitate a change.
Slow motion to fast is great advice.  I am a big believer in this as well.  As far as the early extension goes, what really helped me was practicing sliding my butt along a wall towards the target, keeping my head steady and then after impact really side tilt to the right.  This really cleared my left hip, maintained my spine angle and kept the club exiting left after impact.


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#1911 tembolo1284

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:18 PM

SnTers! How ya'll doin?
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#1912 minitour

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:36 AM

My path seems to have gotten a bit to the left earlier than I'd like.

Weight not forward enough?

Hands not working inside enough going back?
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#1913 thekru

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:48 PM

View Posttembolo1284, on 11 February 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

SnTers! How ya'll doin?
Why did you wake me up?  I'm sleeping and nursing a hangover!

#1914 yedi015

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 05:48 PM

I'm struggling big time
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#1915 minitour

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 03:27 AM

View Postminitour, on 12 February 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

My path seems to have gotten a bit to the left earlier than I'd like.

Weight not forward enough?

Hands not working inside enough going back?

So is that a "no" to both?

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#1916 ShowMe

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:12 PM

View Posttembolo1284, on 11 February 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

SnTers! How ya'll doin?
Fantastic! Best swing pattern ever! I've gone from a 12 to a 5 in one year. I've never had so much confidence standing over a ball knowing exactly where it was going to land. Now I just need to find a similar cure for my short game and putting, and life will be perfect. Putting stroke is good, just can't read a putt to save my life. Grew up on bent-grass greens, but now play on Bermuda greens. When the grain can actually make a ball break uphill, well that just defies physics.

#1917 dreadedstraightball

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:25 PM

(

View Postshanksalot, on 03 July 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

I was watching the Dvd's at my friends house and saw Andy hit a 4 iron with his weight forward at address and the ball back.  Most people would think this would be a low shot.  He than hit a high draw.  How was that possible?
Mystifying, isn't it? Directly flies in the face of what was formerly accepted as standard procedure.  Besides the face being more open/handle being high attachment, (keeping the rate of closure low). The extension piece is a huge contributor in pulling off this "Harold" shot.  If Mike stayed in his original forward flexion for too long, the AofA would be too steep, and the shot couldn't be launched properly with the established added positive loft built in to the attachment.  I think Andy confirms with the Trackman operator that some of his AofA measurements were near level. The spine extending prevents the club from SLAMMING into the mat.  The ball being back helps Mike hit FAR back on the circle, therefore procucing the draw, even though the face angle is severely open.  Other methods to shallow the decent (such as cupping the left wrist, flexing the elbows) would pull the club's path to the left, INCREASE the angle of descent, and increase the rate of closure-Goodbye Loft! nice knowing ya)
Glad I could share, new to the WRX, relatively new to the S&T Network Mike and Andy's knowledge can take you as far as you want to go. I havent looked back. - BK

#1918 The Big Pinch

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:39 PM

I have been using the S&T swing since last year and am seeing some nice results, however I am having trouble with my greenside bunker play. Any help from the S&T experts would be greatly appreciated.

#1919 BigLeftyinAZ

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 10:07 PM

Do you have to straighten out rear leg at top of backswing? My swing,I hope is centered doesn't have rear leg straight.  I've always thought of just having the weight/pressure on the inside of each ankle,of course at different parts of the swing.  
Inside rear foot to prevent sway off the ball and then inside lead foot at top.  I will say my mistake is generally with driver and that is a lower ball flight.

#1920 SwingMan

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:02 PM

View PostBigLeftyinAZ, on 02 March 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

Do you have to straighten out rear leg at top of backswing? My swing,I hope is centered doesn't have rear leg straight.  I've always thought of just having the weight/pressure on the inside of each ankle,of course at different parts of the swing.  
Inside rear foot to prevent sway off the ball and then inside lead foot at top.  I will say my mistake is generally with driver and that is a lower ball flight.
  • The back leg does not have to be perfectly straight
  • If you are truly centered in the pivot, you should not be too concerned about weight on the outside of the rear foot.
  • At the top, gradually roll the ankles and squish the ball of the front foot.
  • Lower ball flight?  Check swing path and slightly open clubface at address in relation to target - about 3 degrees. Relax your arms and squeeze elbows together coming down (more lag)
  • Have fun.

Callaway is trending up

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