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Stack & Tilt (merged)


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#1 dana dahlquist

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 10:06 PM

We are starting a sub forum for all stack and tilt threads, if you have questions about this please let us know.


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#2 JD3

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 10:37 PM

Dana, what's your view on letting the upper swing centers move forward a little bit on the downswing?  Seems like MORAD swings feature this.  Is it ok with S&T as an additional measure to avoid hitting behind the ball, or would it compromise swinging the shoulders on a circle?

Thanks

Edited by JD3, 30 August 2010 - 10:42 PM.


#3 dana dahlquist

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 11:12 PM

View PostJD3, on 30 August 2010 - 10:37 PM, said:

Dana, what's your view on letting the upper swing centers move forward a little bit on the downswing?  Seems like MORAD swings feature this.  Is it ok with S&T as an additional measure to avoid hitting behind the ball, or would it compromise swinging the shoulders on a circle?

Thanks
Good question for other patterns with Morad, thats ok. However when the upper center changes so would th eleft shoulder and plane angles change. Thrust patterns delay and or speed up. #3 changes. Hence the reason the setup has more side tilt at address. Seve would set up with a bunch of side tilt to the right then recenter the whole time he took his backswing. This is a good topic and would work best in a seperate topic section. Im sure that will happen soon. Id think if we said the upper centers were too far forward in a S&T pattern the left wrist would uncock faster than what is needed.

#4 eightiron

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 02:02 AM

View Postdana dahlquist, on 30 August 2010 - 11:12 PM, said:

View PostJD3, on 30 August 2010 - 10:37 PM, said:

Dana, what's your view on letting the upper swing centers move forward a little bit on the downswing?  Seems like MORAD swings feature this.  Is it ok with S&T as an additional measure to avoid hitting behind the ball, or would it compromise swinging the shoulders on a circle?

Thanks
Good question for other patterns with Morad, thats ok. However when the upper center changes so would th eleft shoulder and plane angles change. Thrust patterns delay and or speed up. #3 changes. Hence the reason the setup has more side tilt at address. Seve would set up with a bunch of side tilt to the right then recenter the whole time he took his backswing. This is a good topic and would work best in a seperate topic section. Im sure that will happen soon. Id think if we said the upper centers were too far forward in a S&T pattern the left wrist would uncock faster than what is needed.


isn't the left wrist unc/king faster just a result of needing to get the club down faster( case in point yeah lots of upper body too far forward), btw the centers are all moving in 3- dim ,and the pivot motion is always toward the ball ( what i got taught)

#5 34golf

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 02:17 AM

I think i read somewhere Mike Bennett said that they came up with this swing to hit the ball the furthest and Straightest. What if your goal was to just hit the ball the straightest? I dont mean the ballflight being straight but i mean consistently hitting the ball to your target and didnt care much about distance.


#6 genis

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 08:02 AM

What is the best way to learn the Stack and Tilt swing if you do not have access to a Stack and Tilt instructor?

#7 spider

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 11:52 AM

Dana is this the subforum or will it really be like the hogan one separate with many topics?  I am curious as to or if there is a difference between SnT and Inline/online pattern from morad? What those differences would be as well.

Thanks
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#8 dorfblee

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 12:54 PM

If you have a more bent over posture at address- what type of shifts or compensations would you recommend? Do the arms work a little less in? Do you need less left tilt if the left shoulder is already down?

-OR- do you just work on having a more upright (for me) posture and adding in the left/down tilts?

My natural/comfortable/stable posture is close to the 45-55*- similar to the Hardy One Plane and Jeff Ritter version address position.

#9 JOEGOLFWRX

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 01:19 PM

View Postdana dahlquist, on 30 August 2010 - 10:06 PM, said:

We are starting a sub forum for all stack and tilt threads, if you have questions about this please let us know.

this isn't a sub forum, just get P&B to buy a sub forum and clean up this mess ...lol

#10 frank gasaway

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 01:32 PM

View PostJOEGOLFWRX, on 31 August 2010 - 01:19 PM, said:

View Postdana dahlquist, on 30 August 2010 - 10:06 PM, said:

We are starting a sub forum for all stack and tilt threads, if you have questions about this please let us know.

this isn't a sub forum, just get P&B to buy a sub forum and clean up this mess ...lol


:clapping: Maybe Foley can buy one also haha


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#11 JOEGOLFWRX

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 01:36 PM

View Postfrank gasaway, on 31 August 2010 - 01:32 PM, said:

View PostJOEGOLFWRX, on 31 August 2010 - 01:19 PM, said:

View Postdana dahlquist, on 30 August 2010 - 10:06 PM, said:

We are starting a sub forum for all stack and tilt threads, if you have questions about this please let us know.

this isn't a sub forum, just get P&B to buy a sub forum and clean up this mess ...lol


:clapping: Maybe Foley can buy one also haha
maybe tiger will pay for both ...rofl

#12 logan91201

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 05:33 PM

View Post34golf, on 31 August 2010 - 02:17 AM, said:

I think i read somewhere Mike Bennett said that they came up with this swing to hit the ball the furthest and Straightest. What if your goal was to just hit the ball the straightest? I dont mean the ballflight being straight but i mean consistently hitting the ball to your target and didnt care much about distance.

That would be a putting stroke.  If you want to hit it further than that then you have to start incorporating distance pieces.

#13 provx

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 05:52 PM

View Postdana dahlquist, on 30 August 2010 - 11:12 PM, said:

View PostJD3, on 30 August 2010 - 10:37 PM, said:

Dana, what's your view on letting the upper swing centers move forward a little bit on the downswing?  Seems like MORAD swings feature this.  Is it ok with S&T as an additional measure to avoid hitting behind the ball, or would it compromise swinging the shoulders on a circle?Thanks
Good question for other patterns with Morad, thats ok. However when the upper center changes so would th eleft shoulder and plane angles change. Thrust patterns delay and or speed up. #3 changes. Hence the reason the setup has more side tilt at address. Seve would set up with a bunch of side tilt to the right then recenter the whole time he took his backswing. This is a good topic and would work best in a seperate topic section. Im sure that will happen soon. Id think if we said the upper centers were too far forward in a S&T pattern the left wrist would uncock faster than what is needed.

i think this is an important point that i missed when first trying to stack and tilt. a persons first impression is to get way out in front of the ball to guarantee a forward swing bottom, but after a 2nd or 3rd reading of the book it becomes clear the point is to stay centered over the ball to guarantee a CONSISTENT swing bottom and to do this means a little more shoulder tilt than one might expect.

#14 dachtor

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 10:05 PM

I have a question about width of the feet at address. I've noticed before while viewing videos on YouTube of Mike Bennett, Clearwater and others it appears that their stance is not very wide. This is also true of Sean O'hair even though he is a pretty tall person. Charlie Wi seems to be a bit wider.

What are the implications of a stance that is too wide vs. too narrow? I tried hitting a few balls with my feet much closer together today and was pretty pleased with the results.

#15 JOEGOLFWRX

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 01:03 AM

View Postlogan91201, on 31 August 2010 - 05:33 PM, said:

View Post34golf, on 31 August 2010 - 02:17 AM, said:

I think i read somewhere Mike Bennett said that they came up with this swing to hit the ball the furthest and Straightest. What if your goal was to just hit the ball the straightest? I dont mean the ballflight being straight but i mean consistently hitting the ball to your target and didnt care much about distance.

That would be a putting stroke.  If you want to hit it further than that then you have to start incorporating distance pieces.

say you got the perfect model SnTer with no ball flight issues, hits it the straightest the longest, what do you change if he wants to hit it longer at the expense of some accuracy ?


#16 iteachgolf

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 01:13 AM

View Postdachtor, on 31 August 2010 - 10:05 PM, said:

What are the implications of a stance that is too wide vs. too narrow? I tried hitting a few balls with my feet much closer together today and was pretty pleased with the results.
Wider will yield less rotation and requires a larger slide to get left hip over left ankle.  Narrower stance makes it easier to get left hip forward sooner, so hips will rotate faster.  Depends on your intent and tendencies you bring to the table as to which is a better option.

#17 TaylorMadeAP25

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 01:21 AM

View PostJOEGOLFWRX, on 01 September 2010 - 01:03 AM, said:

View Postlogan91201, on 31 August 2010 - 05:33 PM, said:

View Post34golf, on 31 August 2010 - 02:17 AM, said:

I think i read somewhere Mike Bennett said that they came up with this swing to hit the ball the furthest and Straightest. What if your goal was to just hit the ball the straightest? I dont mean the ballflight being straight but i mean consistently hitting the ball to your target and didnt care much about distance.

That would be a putting stroke.  If you want to hit it further than that then you have to start incorporating distance pieces.

say you got the perfect model SnTer with no ball flight issues, hits it the straightest the longest, what do you change if he wants to hit it longer at the expense of some accuracy ?
get him longer clubs and keep the effective lie angle on all his clubs ;)

#18 iteachgolf

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 01:28 AM

View PostJOEGOLFWRX, on 01 September 2010 - 01:03 AM, said:

View Postlogan91201, on 31 August 2010 - 05:33 PM, said:

View Post34golf, on 31 August 2010 - 02:17 AM, said:

I think i read somewhere Mike Bennett said that they came up with this swing to hit the ball the furthest and Straightest. What if your goal was to just hit the ball the straightest? I dont mean the ballflight being straight but i mean consistently hitting the ball to your target and didnt care much about distance.

That would be a putting stroke.  If you want to hit it further than that then you have to start incorporating distance pieces.

say you got the perfect model SnTer with no ball flight issues, hits it the straightest the longest, what do you change if he wants to hit it longer at the expense of some accuracy ?
not sure why anyone would want that, but greater hip turn and shoulder turn,  drop in transition due to knees increasing in flex and then stand up through impact (Tiger's move)

#19 dachtor

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 08:06 AM

View Postiteachgolf, on 01 September 2010 - 01:13 AM, said:

View Postdachtor, on 31 August 2010 - 10:05 PM, said:

What are the implications of a stance that is too wide vs. too narrow? I tried hitting a few balls with my feet much closer together today and was pretty pleased with the results.
Wider will yield less rotation and requires a larger slide to get left hip over left ankle.  Narrower stance makes it easier to get left hip forward sooner, so hips will rotate faster.  Depends on your intent and tendencies you bring to the table as to which is a better option.

So if one struggles with sliding left enough, a narrower stance might be a decent option? MB has what is in my opinion a very narrow stance. His driver stance is what some might use for a 7 iron.

#20 mvmac

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 09:49 AM

What are the measurements for straightening the right knee?  How do you know if a player has straightened the right amount, too much, not enough?


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#21 scratch72

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 12:25 PM

Dana, In the SnT book they say they want the hands and arms to move away from right shoulder on the down swing. Does this mean there is intentional pull and if so is that pull straight down towards your right foot? Thanks

#22 broth518

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 02:09 PM

View PostJD3, on 30 August 2010 - 10:37 PM, said:

Dana, what's your view on letting the upper swing centers move forward a little bit on the downswing?  Seems like MORAD swings feature this.  Is it ok with S&T as an additional measure to avoid hitting behind the ball, or would it compromise swinging the shoulders on a circle?

Thanks

I have this same problem when my upper center moves forward and I hit the ball to the right and can't draw the ball as the flying wedge needs to release in order to hit the ball.

I work on the second tilt to achieve not moving my uppper center forward too far on the downswing.

Unless Dana you have any other tips or suggestions??

#23 mvmac

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 09:34 PM

View Postgenis, on 31 August 2010 - 08:02 AM, said:

What is the best way to learn the Stack and Tilt swing if you do not have access to a Stack and Tilt instructor?

DVD
book
Online instruction http://evolvr.thegolfevolution.com/
http://www.youtube.c...ser/nclearwater
http://www.youtube.com/user/iacas
http://www.youtube.c...hegolfevolution
http://www.youtube.com/user/ddahlquist

#24 genis

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 04:11 AM

Thanks mvmac, I'll have a look at those links.

#25 genis

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 04:20 AM

Thanks mvmac, I'll have a look at those links.


#26 avrag

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 10:07 AM

I used to have a very shallow angle of attack, combined with an early release of the clubhead. This resulted in a very inconsistent low point. I have tried to add some elements of the S&T model to my swing lately, and it has helped tremendoulsy. I say "some elements", because I simply cannot keep my weight completely on the front foot in the backswing. A slight pressing down with my back foot has always been my swing trigger, and I do not want to change that.
My irons shots are longer and a lot more consistent now, and turning more "over" the ball has also helped with my driving.
But: I cannot hit fairway woods off the deck at all when using this motion. This has always been one the best parts of my game, so I am confused. I have to go back to the "roundhouse" swing to hit the fairway woods consistently.
Why could that be?
Another problem I have is with spine extension and left tilt in the backswing. It feel like all the weight goes onto my toes, and I do not like that.
What could help?
I should add that I live in Central Europe, and as far as I know, there are absolutely no S&T teachers here, so everything I do comes from the P&B book and from videos on the internet.
I see a gap. There definitely is a gap.

#27 JD3

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 06:00 AM

Is the purpose of the inside hand path solely to max out angular momentum?  Or does it work in better harmony with the S&T pivot too?

Edited by JD3, 05 September 2010 - 06:14 AM.


#28 dana dahlquist

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 01:49 PM

View PostJD3, on 05 September 2010 - 06:00 AM, said:

Is the purpose of the inside hand path solely to max out angular momentum?  Or does it work in better harmony with the S&T pivot too?
Yes, and to keep the arc inline longer

#29 JD3

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 02:01 PM

View Postdana dahlquist, on 05 September 2010 - 01:49 PM, said:

View PostJD3, on 05 September 2010 - 06:00 AM, said:

Is the purpose of the inside hand path solely to max out angular momentum?  Or does it work in better harmony with the S&T pivot too?
Yes, and to keep the arc inline longer
Thanks.

"inline" as in left arm and shaft?

Edited by JD3, 05 September 2010 - 03:38 PM.


#30 logan91201

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 09:06 AM

View PostJD3, on 05 September 2010 - 02:01 PM, said:

View Postdana dahlquist, on 05 September 2010 - 01:49 PM, said:

View PostJD3, on 05 September 2010 - 06:00 AM, said:

Is the purpose of the inside hand path solely to max out angular momentum?  Or does it work in better harmony with the S&T pivot too?
Yes, and to keep the arc inline longer
Thanks.

"inline" as in left arm and shaft?

No, he means to keep the swing on a circle.


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