126 replies to this topic

[rwilcox]

I've played Mizuno for a long time but our country is is such terrible economic shape I want to follow my usual practice of buying American made products when it comes to golf clubs.  Which irons are manufactured and assembled in the good ole USA?

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[gspjeb]

I think Pings are one of the few out there that are made in the USA.  Callaway is moving some stuff overseas.

[jarederco]

tour edge

[SpinMill75]

I think most of the PING irons are made overseas nowdays.

[ZBigStick]

SpinMill75, on 14 August 2010 - 10:28 PM, said:

I think most of the PING irons are made overseas nowdays.

Definitely their woods and hybrids are and any Ti faced irons are produced abroad.  I thought they still made some irons here, but I am not certain.

Who has unwrapped their G15, i15 or S57 recently, do they say made in USA?

Most irons are assembled in the USA, that may be the best we can get.  But what does Made in the USA get us?  This is a fairly automated process.  At most they are employing 20-30 people for manufacturing and 20 for assembly?  The sales force/marketing dept and support staff probably make up more employees, and all OEMs with US headquarters have American employees working here.

[max power]

I think the only thing PING still makes in Arizona are the Karsten series putters.  G10 and I10 were made in U.S., but the G15, I15, S57 are Chinese.

[KuroOuji54]

someone correct me if im wrong, but i believe scratch is moving its production to the US

[preacher]

Not many if anything these days. The best you can hope for is at least assembled in the USA. PING used to make there irons here in Phoenix but not anymore. I think the last were the G10/I10 models

--jason

[gdb99]

Just buy used from someone in the States. That keeps the money in our economy.  

[unixgolf]

max power, on 14 August 2010 - 10:42 PM, said:

I think the only thing PING still makes in Arizona are the Karsten series putters.  G10 and I10 were made in U.S., but the G15, I15, S57 are Chinese.

You are correct, when I unwrapped my G15 4w and G15 Hydrid they were made in China but assembled in USA.
When I ordered two sets of Ping eye2+ irons, they were all made in USA.

Edited by unixgolf, 15 August 2010 - 08:01 AM.

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[cardia10]

I'm pretty sure Ping just left their casting facility to move overseas production for irons. I think Scratch is close to having all casting and forging done in the USA. Thank god someone is forgoing cost for quality.

[Rolex]

cardia10, on 15 August 2010 - 08:41 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure Ping just left their casting facility to move overseas production for irons. I think Scratch is close to having all casting and forging done in the USA. Thank god someone is forgoing cost for quality.

On the contrary, price will go up and quality will go down. Quality in forging and casting comes from experience and knowhow, both of which are in short supply in the US.

[BirdieBob]

gspjeb, on 14 August 2010 - 09:05 PM, said:

I think Pings are one of the few out there that are made in the USA.  Callaway is moving some stuff overseas.

Callaway heads made overseas and were assembled in Carlsbad, CA.  They are now moving assembly to Monterey, Mexico.  Maybe give the illegals a reason to stay in Mexico.

Very little is "Made in USA" anymore, and that goes for most all products we Americans buy.

Edited by BirdieBob, 15 August 2010 - 10:31 AM.

[tjk52]

? Henry- Griffitts

[Evolved]

rwilcox, on 14 August 2010 - 09:02 PM, said:

I've played Mizuno for a long time but our country is is such terrible economic shape I want to follow my usual practice of buying American made products when it comes to golf clubs.  Which irons are manufactured and assembled in the good ole USA?

What about the rest of your life, only buy America then too?

[cardia10]

There are plenty of casting facilities in the US, especially the southeast US that has done golf clubs for years. They just couldn't compete with the overseas pricing for a lesser quality product. I tour these facilities daily and can safely say that quality will be tested with every batch and be much more controlled than china. Forging is the same way. It isn't rocket science. The US perfected these techniques then couldn't compete with pricing, very much because of unions in most shops. Trust me, this is what I do, I see it every day. If US shops can control labor costs, quality will be top notch.

[jaskanski]

Does it really matter?
As long as the respective company remains US owned and the product is bought within the US, then you are supporting your economy. If you want to put a company out of business by forcing them to compete on unequal terms with the rest of the world, then that's got to be bad for the economy - does that not make sense?
Companies like Ping are not stupid enough to not move with the times - including mass industry. If they had stuck with their policy of "made in USA" they probably would have slipped into obscurity long ago. They know the value of their customer base and try to deliver the best product they can at the best price - employing several US people along the way. If you really want to buy something made solely in the US at a price point that is ridiculously high and not of any higher quality, then feel free to line the pockets of some niche brand that puts a fraction of the money that the likes of Ping or Callaway etc. put into the US economy.
What's wrong with a US brand that is successful globally and does more than it's fair share in taxes?
Bottom line, use your local proshop and golf store to buy golf equipment and you can't do much more to stimulate the economy - wherever it's made and assembled.

[iteachgolf]

all of Ping's current iron lineup is made oversees.  Not a single major OEM makes clubs in the S anymore.  Scratch is going to try to make this move as early as next year if it all works out.  Most of the clubs are assembled in the US and made in China or Japan

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[max power]

Michael W, on 15 August 2010 - 08:59 AM, said:

cardia10, on 15 August 2010 - 08:41 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure Ping just left their casting facility to move overseas production for irons. I think Scratch is close to having all casting and forging done in the USA. Thank god someone is forgoing cost for quality.

I just spoke to Ping around 4 weeks ago just prior to ordering my G15's, the irons are still cast and assembled here, unless something has just recently changed. But, with the new taxes coming on January 1st, I could see them moving all manufacturing and assembly overseas to keep the doors open. I know I am sweating it as are a few of my friends that also own businesses. And my apologies, I don't want to turn this into a political thread, just stating the facts in regards to what is "presently" coming.

Every G15 or I15 I've seen since they came out says "Head Made in China"

[865golf]

cardia10, on 15 August 2010 - 11:22 AM, said:

There are plenty of casting facilities in the US, especially the southeast US that has done golf clubs for years. They just couldn't compete with the overseas pricing for a lesser quality product. I tour these facilities daily and can safely say that quality will be tested with every batch and be much more controlled than china. Forging is the same way. It isn't rocket science. The US perfected these techniques then couldn't compete with pricing, very much because of unions in most shops. Trust me, this is what I do, I see it every day. If US shops can control labor costs, quality will be top notch.

Unfortunately lots of people have this idea that unions killed manufacturing jobs in America, or that the government "regulated" these jobs out of existence - but this is simply not the case.  The fact is that manufacturers moved their operations overseas to take advantage of extremely cheap labor.  Workers in some of these "manufacturing paradises" like China work for 57 cents per hour (Mexico, by comparison, pays a whopping average of $2 per hour) and workers in other countries like Thailand and Vietnam work for the equivalent of much less than $1,000 (US) annually.  Any jobs in forging or casting metals are difficult, hot and nasty - do you think anyone that performs these skilled jobs deserves to be paid $2.00 an hour or that any American worker would work for that wage?  Countries like China and Mexico have almost no environmental regulations or safety regulations - if a worker gets injured or killed on the job, the company has no liability for their injury or death and the companies can dump harmful waste wherever they want without consequence.  Like it or not, pure greed - looking for the maximum profit regardless of the cost to the community you live in - is what drove these manufacturing jobs overseas, not unions or the government.

Sorry about the rant, but this is a subject that has bugged me years.  These companies want to sell us their over-priced products, but are not willing to locate good paying jobs in the US so that the average person can afford them.

[OldSkoolTexan]

iteachgolf, on 15 August 2010 - 11:48 AM, said:

all of Ping's current iron lineup is made oversees.  Not a single major OEM makes clubs in the S anymore.  Scratch is going to try to make this move as early as next year if it all works out.  Most of the clubs are assembled in the US and made in China or Japan

<br>If this is the case, I DEFINITELY want a set of USA Forged SB-1s!!<br><br>Wonder what happened to all that Hogan FT Worth equip or Hoffman equip.?

[OldSkoolTexan]

865golf, on 15 August 2010 - 01:00 PM, said:

cardia10, on 15 August 2010 - 11:22 AM, said:

There are plenty of casting facilities in the US, especially the southeast US that has done golf clubs for years. They just couldn't compete with the overseas pricing for a lesser quality product. I tour these facilities daily and can safely say that quality will be tested with every batch and be much more controlled than china. Forging is the same way. It isn't rocket science. The US perfected these techniques then couldn't compete with pricing, very much because of unions in most shops. Trust me, this is what I do, I see it every day. If US shops can control labor costs, quality will be top notch.

Unfortunately lots of people have this idea that unions killed manufacturing jobs in America, or that the government "regulated" these jobs out of existence - but this is simply not the case.  The fact is that manufacturers moved their operations overseas to take advantage of extremely cheap labor.  Workers in some of these "manufacturing paradises" like China work for 57 cents per hour (Mexico, by comparison, pays a whopping average of $2 per hour) and workers in other countries like Thailand and Vietnam work for the equivalent of much less than $1,000 (US) annually.  Any jobs in forging or casting metals are difficult, hot and nasty - do you think anyone that performs these skilled jobs deserves to be paid $2.00 an hour or that any American worker would work for that wage?  Countries like China and Mexico have almost no environmental regulations or safety regulations - if a worker gets injured or killed on the job, the company has no liability for their injury or death and the companies can dump harmful waste wherever they want without consequence.  Like it or not, pure greed - looking for the maximum profit regardless of the cost to the community you live in - is what drove these manufacturing jobs overseas, not unions or the government.

Sorry about the rant, but this is a subject that has bugged me years.  These companies want to sell us their over-priced products, but are not willing to locate good paying jobs in the US so that the average person can afford them.

<br><br>Im sure even that gap between .57c and $2 can be closed by the far reduced cost to transport from Mexico.  I personally blame wallmart for pushing the US manufacturing move to China. <br><br>Yes, I did misspell the name on purpose mostly because I hate that place and partly because SouthPark fans will note the spelling.

[MadGolfer76]

Democrats vs Republicans in 5, 4, 3, 2...

[OldSkoolTexan]

MadGolfer76, on 15 August 2010 - 02:07 PM, said:

Democrats vs Republicans in 5, 4, 3, 2...

<br>Nah, we're just talkin about golf clubs here.  I still hate wallmart though....

[cardia10]

No politics here for me either. Americans demand cheap, so that is what we have brought on ourselves. The southeast us is reaping the benefits of the northeast's strong union ties. Believe me, I help these industries relocate, union participation and labor costs are 2 of their top factors when choosing a new US location. Why would they pay a guy 20 hr to put on 1 screw when a guy in the South will put on 100 different screws for 15 hr. Look at the south's success when it comes to automotive manufacturing without union involvement (BMW, Toyota, Hyundai, VW). These didn't land in non union areas by accident. Labor costs drive location decisions, although we are seeing a strong comeback on quality. I am working with 5 companies now that are looking to re enter the US market at an increased cost just to boost quality and on time delivery ( anyone been waiting for those adams sets or callaway 6 irons?)

Yeah, I hate Wal Mart too! I always support the mom and pops when I can, my family is one so I see the value in service!

Edited by cardia10, 15 August 2010 - 02:56 PM.

[18th Legion]

max power, on 14 August 2010 - 10:42 PM, said:

I think the only thing PING still makes in Arizona are the Karsten series putters.  G10 and I10 were made in U.S., but the G15, I15, S57 are Chinese.

Incorrect.  The last Ping Irons to be made in the U.S. were the G5, I5 and I Wedge.

[Llortamaisey]

I don't know why more people don't have the "buy USA made products" attitude when it comes to golf. A friend of mine that lived in both Japan and China said that it's really important to their culture to purchase products that are manufactured and assembled in their country. I guess Americans just aren't as socially aware.

[18th Legion]

iteachgolf, on 15 August 2010 - 11:48 AM, said:

all of Ping's current iron lineup is made oversees.  Not a single major OEM makes clubs in the S anymore.  Scratch is going to try to make this move as early as next year if it all works out.  Most of the clubs are assembled in the US and made in China or Japan

If Scratch were to pull this off, it would be nice, and could benefit as a niche.  More and more clubs are assembled in China/Southeast Asia as well.  If it is assembled in the U.S., it will say so on a sticker.  Realize at most that means Grip/Shaft/Head assembly.  However only one component must be assembled in order for it to say, "assembled in U.S."  Could be only the grip as an example.

I also think you will find that if the head is made in Japan, the club is assembled in Japan as with Mizuno, Bridgestone, Srixon.
One correction; Ping Redwood putters are cast and assembled in the U.S.  So that's one model.

TaylorMade assembles approx. half of their clubs in the U.S.  Usually the TP versions are assembled here.
Titleist and Cobra, about 50%
Ping is still close to 100% assembled.
Nike is 0%.   Excluding tour staff and tour players clubs.  It is a shame that an actual U.S. company, would assemble nothing here compared to a German owned company ™.

There are many, many reasons that the U.S. moved most of all our manufacturing overseas.  Employee Insurance costs, environmental regulations, cost of labor, union pressures, a disposable consumer society, and so on.  Our intial form of Capitalism didn't take into account the massive greed of individuals who controlled the corporations,and banks, and insurance companies, and of course our elected officials.

Edited by 18th Legion, 15 August 2010 - 03:18 PM.

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