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Tiger- why did he get a drop from embedded ball from the rough?


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#1 Jaliveto

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:46 PM

PGA championship

Tiger got a drop in his second round for a ball embedded in  the rough of a bunker face.  Why?

Rule  states:

25-2. Embedded Ball
A ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in the ground in any closely mown area through the green may be lifted, cleaned and dropped, without penalty, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the coursethrough the green. "Closely mown area" means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.


It was not cut to fairway height or less?


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#2 larrybud

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:54 PM

Did you have mute on?  They said the embedded ball was "through the green" today.

#3 dplasters

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:56 PM

View Postlarrybud, on 13 August 2010 - 07:54 PM, said:

Did you have mute on?  They said the embedded ball was "through the green" today.

he is pointing out that the rule doesn't state just 'through the green' it states 'closely mown area, through the green'.  Tiger was certainly not in a closely mown area.

#4 ZBigStick

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:57 PM

It could be a local rule enacted for the tournament.  Rainy conditions often necessitate the relief of all embedded balls "through the green".

Jim Nance read the rule and the only exception to NOT receive relief from an embedded ball was for sandy terrain, not soil mixed with sand.

I see no problem, but can't find a written rule.

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#5 kevcarter

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 08:05 PM

The specimen local rule is ALWAYS in effect at many courses in the wet north land where the golf committee's are paying attention. I believe the PGA always uses this local rule for its championship.

Quote

Appendix 1 4a. Relief for Embedded Ball

Rule 25-2 provides relief, without penalty, for a ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in any closely mown area through the green. On the putting green, a ball may be lifted and damage caused by the impact of a ball may be repaired (Rules 16-1b and c). When permission to take relief for an embedded ball anywhere through the green would be warranted, the following Local Rule is recommended:
"Through the green, a ball that is embedded in its own pitch-mark in the ground may be lifted, without penalty, cleaned and dropped as near as possible to where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the coursethrough the green.
Exceptions:

1. A player may not take relief under this Local Rule if the ball is embedded in sand in an area that is not closely mown.

2. A player may not take relief under this Local Rule if it is clearly unreasonable for him to make a stroke because of interference by anything other than the condition covered by this Local Rule.

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#6 dplasters

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 08:07 PM

View Postkevcarter, on 13 August 2010 - 08:05 PM, said:

The specimen local rule is ALWAYS in effect at many courses in the wet north land where the golf committee's are paying attention. I believe the PGA always uses this local rule for its championship.

Quote

Appendix 1 4a. Relief for Embedded Ball

Rule 25-2 provides relief, without penalty, for a ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in any closely mown area through the green. On the putting green, a ball may be lifted and damage caused by the impact of a ball may be repaired (Rules 16-1b and c). When permission to take relief for an embedded ball anywhere through the green would be warranted, the following Local Rule is recommended:
"Through the green, a ball that is embedded in its own pitch-mark in the ground may be lifted, without penalty, cleaned and dropped as near as possible to where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the coursethrough the green.
Exceptions:

1. A player may not take relief under this Local Rule if the ball is embedded in sand in an area that is not closely mown.

2. A player may not take relief under this Local Rule if it is clearly unreasonable for him to make a stroke because of interference by anything other than the condition covered by this Local Rule.

thank you.

#7 ZBigStick

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 08:21 PM

Thank you KevCarter.  I wondered if you were lurking. :)

I find it frustrating that I had heard of that Local Ruling at a club I belonged to in Atlanta, but struggled to find it in the Rules and Decisions.  This is the kind of thing that makes golf rules so complicated and restrictive to new and experienced golfers to fully grasp and understand the rules of this wonderful game.  Even with the internet it is complicated.  The good ole USGA.  Keeping the game as complicated and mysterious as ever. :swoon2:  

As the OP noted the most often retained factoid of this rule is the mention of "closely mowed" conditioned, but as quoted by KevCarter, many Golf Committees enact a local rule.  How many golfers know that? :fool:

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#8 kevcarter

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 08:24 PM

View PostZBigStick, on 13 August 2010 - 08:21 PM, said:

Thank you KevCarter.  I wondered if you were lurking. :)

I find it frustrating that I had heard of that Local Ruling at a club I belonged to in Atlanta, but struggled to find it in the Rules and Decisions.  This is the kind of thing that makes golf rules so complicated and restrictive to new and experienced golfers to fully grasp and understand the rules of this wonderful game.  Even with the internet it is complicated.  The good ole USGA.  Keeping the game as complicated and mysterious as ever. :swoon2:  

As the OP noted the most often retained factoid of this rule is the mention of "closely mowed" conditioned, but as quoted by KevCarter, many Golf Committees enact a local rule.  How many golfers know that? :fool:

Knowledge is Power.  Power to the People.  :bb:

LOL

If the rules weren't complex, what would nerds like me have to do with our spare time, and what would I do to feel important?

:cheesy:

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#9 Newby

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 04:42 AM

The 'Embedded Ball Through the Green' Local Rule is on the PGA 'Hard Card'.

It is in force for all PGA events.

Edited by Newby, 14 August 2010 - 04:43 AM.


#10 rafal

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 06:28 AM

There was never any doubt that he will get relief from this particular situation.  Nor is there any doubt that he will continue to receive relief as long as he plays.

Was there seriously any person who thought they will not let him clean and place that? :cheesy:

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#11 Sawgrass

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 08:04 AM

View Postrafal, on 14 August 2010 - 06:28 AM, said:

There was never any doubt that he will get relief from this particular situation.  Nor is there any doubt that he will continue to receive relief as long as he plays.

Was there seriously any person who thought they will not let him clean and place that? :cheesy:


You just learn that this free relief option exists at all PGA events, and your conclusion is that Tiger has received favorable treatment?  Hmmm . . .

#12 SNIPERBBB

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 09:39 PM

Rules in almost all sports are complex. If not there would not be a such a thing as "sports official shortage" for high school,summer, and recreational sports programs.

Edited by SNIPERBBB, 14 August 2010 - 09:39 PM.


#13 Newby

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 02:46 AM

View PostSNIPERBBB, on 14 August 2010 - 09:39 PM, said:

Rules in almost all sports are complex. If not there would not be a such a thing as "sports official shortage" for high school,summer, and recreational sports programs.


Maybe but what is the relevance here?

#14 TheShaun

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 12:03 AM

What is meant by "through the green"?

#15 ZBigStick

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 12:08 AM

View PostTheShaun, on 16 August 2010 - 12:03 AM, said:

What is meant by "through the green"?
Everything but hazards and the putting green.

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#16 Sawgrass

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 08:57 AM

View PostZBigStick, on 16 August 2010 - 12:08 AM, said:

View PostTheShaun, on 16 August 2010 - 12:03 AM, said:

What is meant by "through the green"?
Everything but hazards and the putting green.

The teeing ground is the third and last part of that which is not "through the green."

#17 puttingmatt

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 09:24 AM

It's Tiger !!!  Are you kidding, LOL's !!!!   Who gets
the fans to  move a loose impediment the size of a volvo
years ago ?  Tiger !!! LOL's !!!!  Keep in mind,
The rules work both ways, and yes, sometimes
rules assist  your game, not just penelize !!!!
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#18 Newby

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 01:29 PM

View PostSawgrass, on 16 August 2010 - 08:57 AM, said:

View PostZBigStick, on 16 August 2010 - 12:08 AM, said:

View PostTheShaun, on 16 August 2010 - 12:03 AM, said:

What is meant by "through the green"?
Everything but hazards and the putting green.

The teeing ground is the third and last part of that which is not "through the green."

The teeing ground and putting green of the hole being played

#19 Augster

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 11:02 PM

View PostNewby, on 14 August 2010 - 04:42 AM, said:

The 'Embedded Ball Through the Green' Local Rule is on the PGA 'Hard Card'.

It is in force for all PGA events.

It is ALSO in effect for all USGA events.  AND the USGA suggests that all local clubs should adopt this "local rule".

I wrote the USGA about this once because Sergio had a similar incedent.  They wrote back that the only reason it isn't changed in the Rules is that the R&A wants to keep the embedded ball in the rough penal.  

No idea why.  

Since I received that response, I now play all my embedded balls as free drops "through the green" when playing recreationally.  If it's good enough for the pros....


TO the OP...

That ball was not embedded in a bunker face.  It was in the rough that is almost surrounded by a bunker.

Edited by Augster, 16 August 2010 - 11:05 PM.


#20 Newby

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 02:35 AM

View PostAugster, on 16 August 2010 - 11:02 PM, said:

I wrote the USGA about this once because Sergio had a similar incedent.  They wrote back that the only reason it isn't changed in the Rules is that the R&A wants to keep the embedded ball in the rough penal.  

No idea why.  


The R&A wanted the decision to be made when conditions are appropriate. Which it is why it is a Local Rule.


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