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How does Dustin Johnson not hook every shot?


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#1 cwdlaw223

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 09:38 PM

How does he square up such a shut face at impact?  He could wait tables with his clubface at the top of his backswing.


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#2 keygolf

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 10:02 PM

He just hit a fade off number18.

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#3 HoganAfficianado

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 10:12 PM

he doesnt hang back or let his head back up much. If you notice, he really holds the angle well past impact.. even with the driver.



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#4 Cmartingolf

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 11:34 PM

View Postcwdlaw223, on 19 June 2010 - 09:38 PM, said:

How does he square up such a shut face at impact?  He could wait tables with his clubface at the top of his backswing.

What is square!!

The two guys leading the tournament have "closed" or bowed wrists at the top with a club face pointing more skyward.

A nation of slicers have the left wrist cupped with the toe hanging. The slicers have to try and rotate the face like mad to get the club to the ball with any chance of it taking off on line.

The shut facers can hold on and rip it with their pivot... thus it is square.

The ball doesn't know:)




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#5 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 12:02 AM

Ridiculous hip clearance.


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#6 DoctorLoomis

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 12:08 AM

First and foremost....a closed clubface has never been the reason for a hook. Thats just one of many misconceptions about golf and ball flight. In actuality, a slice that starts left and moves to the right, is hit with a closed face. A closed face player can hit hooks, cuts, and straight balls. Not realizing these facts is a major reason people dont improve at this game.

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#7 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 12:23 AM

View PostTallVolFan, on 20 June 2010 - 12:08 AM, said:

First and foremost....a closed clubface has never been the reason for a hook. Thats just one of many misconceptions about golf and ball flight. In actuality, a slice that starts left and moves to the right, is hit with a closed face. A closed face player can hit hooks, cuts, and straight balls. Not realizing these facts is a major reason people dont improve at this game.

Great post. Many of the great Tour players with shut clubs were faders.

Trevino and Azinger to name two. All of my students who have shut clubs I always recommend they hit fades rather than change their swings drastically.

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#8 DoctorLoomis

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 12:26 AM

You're absolutely correct Monte. It pains me everytime I hear a golfer talk about closed faces causing hooks and open faces causing slices. As for Azinger, I have it on good authority that his face could be as much as 20* closed at address.

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#9 DoctorLoomis

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 12:36 AM

To add something further, when Dustin hit the 4 iron into #17 today, NBC Sports used the Shot Tracker to show the flight of his ball. If you remember, his ball appeared to draw massively. How much it drew is hard to say but it definitely started right and the moved left. To hit that shot his clubface HAD to be open in relation to the flag. The open face projected the ball to the right....and a path that was slightly more to the right created the spin back toward the hole. To sum it up, don't get caught up in old cliches...closed faces dont cause hooks and open faces dont cause slices.

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#10 bobmarley

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 01:02 AM

The answer is that his SS is as fast as Jack Hamm. Yes, it is around 500.:partytime2:


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#11 kevn357

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 01:51 AM

He rotates his core super fast in transition, that's how. He uses the ground so well and just crushes the ball with that tall frame. If anyone here thinks that switching to a bowed lead wrist is the way to go after watching him, don't bother unless you can drive the ball 300 yards already. Those wrists aren't the power source like J.Miller claimed today.

Edited by kevn357, 20 June 2010 - 01:52 AM.


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#12 cwdlaw223

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 05:33 AM

Closed faces cause hooks at impact.  Open faces cause slices at impact.  1/4 shut (toe hanging down being completely open) has been the standard unless you rely on your body pivot to develop clubhead speed instead of your  arms (really the number three accumulator for power being used the most for me to generate speed)  The closed/open clubface at the top of the backswing is very important for hitters (might not be as much for swingers like Johnson).

Does he limit his number three accumulator (right forearm over left through impact) and really rely on number four (his body turn) to generate clubhead speed?  He's kind of swings like Ricky Fowler a little bit.

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#13 bbgator

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 05:57 AM

I always thought the strong grip- shut at the top method, a la Zach Johnson was slightly less powerful.  Dustin is definitely the exception.  He seems more bent over than normal all the way through his swing too, which combined with his powerful hip clearance keeps him from hooking and gives him a ton of power.  Helps being 6'4" with all that leverage.

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#14 Roland

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 07:50 AM

View PostTallVolFan, on 20 June 2010 - 12:08 AM, said:

First and foremost....a closed clubface has never been the reason for a hook. Thats just one of many misconceptions about golf and ball flight. In actuality, a slice that starts left and moves to the right, is hit with a closed face. A closed face player can hit hooks, cuts, and straight balls. Not realizing these facts is a major reason people dont improve at this game.


I'm guesing you are referring to the clubface being closed to the target line but open to the path?

If not please explain :)
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#15 dlygrisse

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 07:59 AM

There was this dude named Lee Trevino that had a bowed wrist at the top, he seemed to hit it pretty pure.  Clear the hips quickly and the face wont be shut.  

I like the players with unique swings, they seem to own thier swing, where-as guys with cookie cutter swings always seem to be making adjustments and struggle to be perfect.  Do what your body allows you to do consistently.

Edited by dlygrisse, 20 June 2010 - 07:59 AM.

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#16 Deisun

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 10:52 AM

View PostTallVolFan, on 20 June 2010 - 12:08 AM, said:

First and foremost....a closed clubface has never been the reason for a hook. Thats just one of many misconceptions about golf and ball flight. In actuality, a slice that starts left and moves to the right, is hit with a closed face. A closed face player can hit hooks, cuts, and straight balls. Not realizing these facts is a major reason people dont improve at this game.

Can anyone explain this to me? Having a hard time getting my head around it.

I've always been taught that an open club face means the ball starts out slightly higher and to the right and curves more to the right. And a closed clubface starts out a little lower and to the left and curves to the left.
Obviously I'm missing something here :/

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#17 cwdlaw223

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 03:08 PM

"I like the players with unique swings, they seem to own thier swing, where-as guys with cookie cutter swings always seem to be making adjustments and struggle to be perfect. Do what your body allows you to do consistently."

Great post!  I believe we all have a base swing that works for our body.  So many different swings to get to impact with the clubface (which doesn't lie).

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#18 crussogolf

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 04:52 PM

I was thinking the same thing.  He really fires his hips to hold off rotation.  Unfortunately, he might not be able to keep it together today under pressure.  Too bad, I picked him to win it..

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#19 ej002

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 05:00 PM

View PostMonteScheinblum, on 20 June 2010 - 12:23 AM, said:

View PostTallVolFan, on 20 June 2010 - 12:08 AM, said:

First and foremost....a closed clubface has never been the reason for a hook. Thats just one of many misconceptions about golf and ball flight. In actuality, a slice that starts left and moves to the right, is hit with a closed face. A closed face player can hit hooks, cuts, and straight balls. Not realizing these facts is a major reason people dont improve at this game.

Great post. Many of the great Tour players with shut clubs were faders.

Trevino and Azinger to name two. All of my students who have shut clubs I always recommend they hit fades rather than change their swings drastically.
Duval in his prime

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#20 DoctorLoomis

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 05:45 PM

View Postcwdlaw223, on 20 June 2010 - 05:33 AM, said:

Closed faces cause hooks at impact.  Open faces cause slices at impact.  1/4 shut (toe hanging down being completely open) has been the standard unless you rely on your body pivot to develop clubhead speed instead of your  arms (really the number three accumulator for power being used the most for me to generate speed)  The closed/open clubface at the top of the backswing is very important for hitters (might not be as much for swingers like Johnson).

Does he limit his number three accumulator (right forearm over left through impact) and really rely on number four (his body turn) to generate clubhead speed?  He's kind of swings like Ricky Fowler a little bit.


This is absolutely 100% unadulteratedly incorrect. Closed faces...and I assume you mean closed to the flag....simply mean the ball will start off initially left. The closed face absolutely positively does not mean a hook is on the way. An open face means the ball will initially start right. It absolutely does not mean a slice in on the way. If I hit the ball with clubface that is 3* closed in relation to the flag, the ball will start left. However, if my path is 4* or more to the left, that ball will CUT. If I hit the ball with a face that is 3* open...the ball will start to the right. However if my path is 4* or more to the right, that ball will DRAW.

Bottom line is...open or closed faces absolutely do not create fades and draws. Period. The face simply establishes initial start line.


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#21 cwdlaw223

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 06:12 PM

 TallVolFan, on 20 June 2010 - 05:45 PM, said:

 cwdlaw223, on 20 June 2010 - 05:33 AM, said:

Closed faces cause hooks at impact.  Open faces cause slices at impact.  1/4 shut (toe hanging down being completely open) has been the standard unless you rely on your body pivot to develop clubhead speed instead of your  arms (really the number three accumulator for power being used the most for me to generate speed)  The closed/open clubface at the top of the backswing is very important for hitters (might not be as much for swingers like Johnson).

Does he limit his number three accumulator (right forearm over left through impact) and really rely on number four (his body turn) to generate clubhead speed?  He's kind of swings like Ricky Fowler a little bit.


This is absolutely 100% unadulteratedly incorrect. Closed faces...and I assume you mean closed to the flag....simply mean the ball will start off initially left. The closed face absolutely positively does not mean a hook is on the way. An open face means the ball will initially start right. It absolutely does not mean a slice in on the way. If I hit the ball with clubface that is 3* closed in relation to the flag, the ball will start left. However, if my path is 4* or more to the left, that ball will CUT. If I hit the ball with a face that is 3* open...the ball will start to the right. However if my path is 4* or more to the right, that ball will DRAW.

Bottom line is...open or closed faces absolutely do not create fades and draws. Period. The face simply establishes initial start line.

Please watch the following video before you make such bold comments on older ball flight laws that have been scientifically proven to be incorrect:    

The clubface at impact plays more of an affect on the ball than path (both count).  Your comments about the ball drawing with an "open" clubface are incomplete.  You're talking about the D plane and you need to talk about the clubface in relation to path on whether it's open or not to the path as opposed to the targe line.  The clubface is still closed in relation to an inside out path as you were trying to describe in your post.  A club can be "open" to the target line and closed to an inside out path which causes the ball to go hard left.  That's the whole D plane concept which baffles golfers who use older ball flight laws for cause and effect.

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#22 DoctorLoomis

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 06:16 PM

Sir.....you really dont understand what you are talking about. I know full well that a ball hit with an open face can bend hard left if the path is far enough to the right of the face. However, the ball will NOT START LEFT. I own a Trackman. I know the D Plane laws flawlessly. The clubface position is responsible for initial starting line. The difference in the face and the path is responsible for the curve....period.

Edited by TallVolFan, 20 June 2010 - 06:26 PM.


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#23 DoctorLoomis

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 06:19 PM

cwdlaw223....I am not trying to be rude. I am simply staing facts. Please do not be offended at my brashness. I will refrain from posting further in this thread. Have a great afternoon............

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#24 cwdlaw223

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 06:33 PM

Clubface open to what???  (target line or a strong inside out path).  If you believe an open clubface to a strong inside out path can cause a hook I want to know why (especially in light of the video that shows differently).  I care about the clubface in relation to the arced path as opposed to the target line.

Edited by cwdlaw223, 20 June 2010 - 06:38 PM.


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#25 DoctorLoomis

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 06:40 PM

For the last time...I am NOT arguing that the path determines starting line! The FACE does. I am arguing that you are absolutely WRONG when you said closed faces create hooks and open faces create slices. You are wrong..period. The video from Golf Evolution is 100% correct. I know Dave Wedzik and he is absolutely correct in his video. You, my friend, are wrong. I shall say it again......Face determines intitial starting line. The difference in face and path produces the curve. Your statement that closed faces cause hooks and open faces cause slices is dead wrong.

Have a great afternoon............


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#26 cwdlaw223

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 06:47 PM

All you needed to do was say my post should have stated closed or open face in relation to the path instead of saying I'm 100% wrong.  The intent of my initial post wasn't to state clubface only determines hooks and slices (although it could have been interpreted that way).   You and I are in agreement regarding ball flight laws.

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#27 toddba11

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 08:41 PM

He might as welll have hooked every shot today with the huge choke job coming in with an 82!  Wow.... I am speechless after witnessing that meltdown......Posted Image


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#28 hayam

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 09:45 PM

How much left he swung?... very left compared to most.

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#29 MacBooky

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 11:56 AM

 cwdlaw223, on 20 June 2010 - 06:47 PM, said:

All you needed to do was say my post should have stated closed or open face in relation to the path instead of saying I'm 100% wrong.  The intent of my initial post wasn't to state clubface only determines hooks and slices (although it could have been interpreted that way).   You and I are in agreement regarding ball flight laws.

Well, not really, all YOU had to do was say that path -in relation to face- makes the ball curve ... instead of claiming a face-hook and face-slice ... TallVolFan was correct.

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#30 glcoach

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 03:21 PM

 TallVolFan, on 20 June 2010 - 12:08 AM, said:

First and foremost....a closed clubface has never been the reason for a hook. Thats just one of many misconceptions about golf and ball flight. In actuality, a slice that starts left and moves to the right, is hit with a closed face. A closed face player can hit hooks, cuts, and straight balls. Not realizing these facts is a major reason people dont improve at this game.


 MonteScheinblum, on 20 June 2010 - 12:23 AM, said:

 TallVolFan, on 20 June 2010 - 12:08 AM, said:

First and foremost....a closed clubface has never been the reason for a hook. Thats just one of many misconceptions about golf and ball flight. In actuality, a slice that starts left and moves to the right, is hit with a closed face. A closed face player can hit hooks, cuts, and straight balls. Not realizing these facts is a major reason people dont improve at this game.

Great post. Many of the great Tour players with shut clubs were faders.

Trevino and Azinger to name two. All of my students who have shut clubs I always recommend they hit fades rather than change their swings drastically.


 TallVolFan, on 20 June 2010 - 12:26 AM, said:

You're absolutely correct Monte. It pains me everytime I hear a golfer talk about closed faces causing hooks and open faces causing slices. As for Azinger, I have it on good authority that his face could be as much as 20* closed at address.

It's D plane guys.  Path and face a face closed to the path will go left and a face open to the path right (for right handers, obviously)

It is the face, just because the wrist is bowed at the top doesn't mean it is "closed"...just less open.  All faces open up on the backswing, if they didn't, you couldn't even make a backswing.


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