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Persimmon Fairway Woods


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#1 Bella Woods

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 07:59 PM

Ok - belmullet put the subject out there, so I will throw out the first salvo:

I have many persimmon fairway woods that I can hit very well, this post
(for no particular reason) features persimmon 4 woods. I find these clubs
all hit the ball with decent enough length, and are relatively accurate with
a slight draw ball flight. Relatively easy to hit consistently, very "playable".

Pictured are three PowerBilt 4 woods that I own that I hit extremely well.
A 1957 PowerBilt Citation, a 1960 PowerBilt Citation, and a 1967 PowerBilt
Citation. I never really thought about why I have hit them well, I just did.
The 1960 is an ugly club that has not been refinished (yet), but it is very solid.
All three of these clubs are very solid when you hit them properly.

So I decided to check out a few particular specs of the clubs:

1957 PowerBilt Citation 4 Wood (Model 403) D-3 397 Grams Total Weight,
True Temper Rocket regular flex steel shaft, 41 3/4" length, 17.5 Degree Loft.

1960 PowerBilt Citation 4 Wood (Model 306) D-0 385 Grams Total Weight,
Pro Power B (Regular) flex steel shaft, 42 1/4" length, 17 Degree Loft.

1967 PowerBilt Citation 4 Wood (Model 313) D-4 389 Grams Total Weight,
Duo Power C (Stiff) flex steel shaft, 41 3/4" length, 19 Degree Loft.

To be honest with you, I think I hit the 1957 the best, but I also think a key
for me is the fact that all three of these woods sit slightly open at the address
position. This is still a key for me with my modern woods.

I find it interesting that I hit a regular shaft the best of the three, because I have
always hit at least a stiff steel shaft (say DG S300) in my persimmons (and modern clubs),
even in the "old days".

All of the above clubs are a consistent 220 to 230 yards, both off a tee, or off the ground.

PowerBilt 4 Wood Post (1957).jpg PowerBilt 4 Wood Post (1957) (2).jpg

PowerBilt 4 Wood Post (1960).jpg PowerBilt 4 Wood Post (1960) (2).jpg

PowerBilt 4 Wood Post (1967).jpg PowerBilt 4 Wood Post (1967) (2).jpg


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#2 Maxwell

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 08:47 PM

Geezz.... nice timber. I really like the "roll of the crown". Kinda reminds me of lovely Mrs. Phillips a bit! Hillerich & Bradsby made really nice woods - sigh! Thanks for sharing young fella!


#3 txcountrylawyer

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 09:45 PM

Based just on feel without knowing the specs, the regular steel shafts in the 1950's and early 1960's clubs seemed as stiff or stiffer than a more modern steel shaft such as a TT s 300.   For example, check the feel of a regular shaft in a 1950's or early 1960's Wilson Staff Iron--its stiff.

#4 RobotDoctor

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 10:24 PM

I am gaming my 1953 MacGregor Tommy Armour 945W 3-wood this year.  This was my primary gamer between 1991 through late 1998-early 1999.  I found it in a Colorado Springs golf store in a used club barrel in poor shape during Christmas 1990.  I tried a couple of metal headed 3-woods until I found an original Titleist PT15 3-wood in the spring of 2001 which is my current gamer.

Attached Thumbnails

  • TA 945W 3 wood face.jpg
  • TA 945W 3 wood crown.jpg
  • TA 945W 3 wood crown 2.jpg
  • TA 945W 3 wood sole.jpg

Edited by RobotDoctor, 27 May 2010 - 11:25 PM.


#5 justaman5

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 11:13 PM

from a scratch golfer that has played for close to 30 years. the stiff shaft of today, is the regular shaft of a club made in say 1985. the stiff of 1985, will play like an extra stiff of today.

i personally find it amusing, that people say, I play this flex or that flex, knowing that they are a watered down version of yesteryear.

I play x flex, but its as stiff if not quit as stiff as some sets of irons that I own, that were made in the middle 1980s. I am talking Ben Hogan forged blades with the Hogan No 4 shaft. They play like DG X100s made today.

I own a set of Nike Blades with DG X100s in them, and two sets of Ben Hogans with No 4 shafts in them. One a set of Hogan PCs and one a set of Hogan Redlines are stiffer.

A persimmon wood will play stiffer because of the whipping and the depth it is inserted. And the fact that it more than likely is pinned.

Bridgestone J33 8.5 loft
Bridgetone J33 15 loft
Hogan Redline 1988 model 2-9
Vokey 48, 54, 60
Scotty Cameron Napa Valley
Prov1x

#6 freddiec

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 10:13 AM

Bella,
Those are some nice fairway woods. One of the last ones you posted with the black finish reminds me of the 80s version I used to see under the head cover of the Members I used to Caddy for as a kid. Growing up Caddy'n at a private club, seems a lot of the members loved Powerbilt woods. They certainly were great.  I don't normally bag a fwy persimmon when I play a persimmon driver, but I have a couple including a early 80s Wood Bros.  I'd love to pick up a really nice 50s 693 3 wood some time. I have a full set of M85s in excellent condition, but I don't normally play them, but when I have i love the Tourney shafts that are in them, they are slighly lighter than the S300 DG and a tad more flex. They are great shafts.

Robot Dr,
Your 3 wood is pretty much off the chart nice. Love it!

Edited by freddiec, 28 May 2010 - 10:14 AM.


#7 RobotDoctor

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 10:38 AM

View Postfreddiec, on 28 May 2010 - 10:13 AM, said:

...

Robot Dr,
Your 3 wood is pretty much off the chart nice. Love it!

Thanks Fred.  I am partial to this 3-wood as well.  This 3-wood was freaky long back in the day and I could hit it great off the deck or on the tee.  It was very dependable.  It is reshafted with a TT S-300 shaft so it is probably between stiff and x-stiff.  I may get this refinished by John at the end of the golf season to a more appropriate finish.  I think I got this 3-wood for $10 in late 1990, may have been $20.  It was in Colorado Springs so it was a little dried out.  My clubsmith soaked it in linseed oil for a week or two then reshafted it for me and refinished it.  I had it refinished a couple of times during the early 90s and added the lead tape for additional weight (instead of drilling holes and pouring more lead under the sole plate).  I am eager to see how the 3-wood will perform.

#8 persimmonpal

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 05:50 PM

Hey Sam~
Looking forward to that 3 wood.. If you want to go the drilling the hole and adding lead under the plate route, thats doable! Nice pickup, by the way.. Especially back in 1990, when there was more of a demand for the persimmons than there is today!

#9 Bella Woods

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 09:41 PM

View PostRobotDoctor, on 28 May 2010 - 10:38 AM, said:

View Postfreddiec, on 28 May 2010 - 10:13 AM, said:

...

Robot Dr,
Your 3 wood is pretty much off the chart nice. Love it!

Thanks Fred. I am partial to this 3-wood as well. This 3-wood was freaky long back in the day and I could hit it great off the deck or on the tee. It was very dependable. It is reshafted with a TT S-300 shaft so it is probably between stiff and x-stiff. I may get this refinished by John at the end of the golf season to a more appropriate finish. I think I got this 3-wood for $10 in late 1990, may have been $20. It was in Colorado Springs so it was a little dried out. My clubsmith soaked it in linseed oil for a week or two then reshafted it for me and refinished it. I had it refinished a couple of times during the early 90s and added the lead tape for additional weight (instead of drilling holes and pouring more lead under the sole plate). I am eager to see how the 3-wood will perform.

Robot Doctor:

Very nice looking 3 wood!, any specs on that club? (I bet it weighs close to 400 grams).

Edited by Bella Woods, 28 May 2010 - 09:42 PM.


#10 RobotDoctor

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 10:23 PM

The 3-wood is 42 1/4" in length, TT S-300 shaft.  The head is a little smaller than the original due to several refinishes (and I prefer a smallish head).  The lead tape is added to get the swing weight to D-2.  I fiber insert was replaced when the original refinish was done back in January 1991.  The original insert had delaminated a little, possibly due to being dried out and in neglect.  The loft, IIRC, was left at standard or approximately 15-16 degrees.  I am certain it is 15 degrees.

The neck had a crack in it (as evident of the sole picture) but was repaired very well and is now probably stronger than the surrounding persimmon.  The finish is a medium walnut stain but appears to have a slight redish hue to it due to the dark nature of the wood.  

This 3-wood was my first foray into the world of MacGregor persimmons.  Shortly after acquiring the 3-wood I purchased an outstanding set of 693s later in the summer of '91 and regret trading this set in 1992.  The guy refinishing my clubs, Mike Copolla of Wilmington, DE, refinished a lot of persimmon woods back then and often did so for several PGA tour pros.  He had the best MacGregor 3-wood I had ever seen, a M43T 3 wood that Greg Norman offered him over $1000 for, which Mike kindly refused.  Mike had some terrific woods and his shop is what formed my love for the MacGregors.  You name the MacGregor and I have probably held it in my hands (with exception of the MacGregor Toney Penna WWT).


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#11 Sean2

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 10:28 PM

When I first started playing that is all there was. When you hit a good shot you literally hit the ball on the screws. My irons made butter knives look like cavity backs. Again that's all there was. I haven't hit persimmons in a long, long time.
Hey...be nice.

#12 txcountrylawyer

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 08:45 PM

Among my gamers were a set of 693s 1-4 and M 85s 1-4, the fairway woods were great in both sets as I had Apex 4s from mid 80s in both sets.  In particular, the 693s are awesome clubs--the way they sit and feel when you hit it on the screws.



#13 Jameson

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 11:24 PM

Personally I have never played with persimmon, I almost wish I had.

My father has a persimmon "PGA" 3 and 5 wood he still uses (modern other clubs) and he is pushing 70 years of age, and routinely hits 225-40 yard draws that leave me with my mouth open. Usually on par-5's. he also hits his Ping G2 over 260 8/10 times. Old mix of blade short irons and Macgregor JNP square groove irons 6-3

Hasnt been to a range to practice in over 15 years, only will he hit balls before a round (where he hits 10 balls only). Can still break 80.

You dont see these guys that have only learne/played with "shovel" type irons, or game improvement equipment lets say. In the old-days (persimmon/blades) this stuff did not exist. You hit what existed, and if you couldn't figure out how to get it airborne and tracking by hitting it solid, you gave it up.

IMO they never develop the true necessity to HIT THE SWEETSPOT for the ball to go anywhere. I hope what I am trying to say is coming across properly. Personally, I didnt properly learn how to hit a golf ball with an iron until I used blades, now I am with a forged cavity.

Love the persimmon and classic stuff!


JC

Edited by Jameson, 31 May 2010 - 11:29 PM.


#14 freddiec

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 07:03 PM

Here is a really nice Wood Bros Persimmon 3 wood. Made in the early 90s I would say. I recently purchased this. Persimmonpal and I played 9 at a nice Old course the other day and I hit it for the 1st time. I really like it a lot. Its got a R300 Dynamic Gold shaft.

#15 RobotDoctor

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 07:14 PM

That 3 wood is outstanding, Fred!  I like it a lot!!


#16 persimmonpal

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 08:17 PM

Fred hit it really nice, and high with a good draw..
It was kinda cool... Fred and I were sitting on the first tee, and I noticed a kid in the group in front of us had a starter set, with a few persimmons sticking out of it (No headcovers).. Fred went over to look, and turnes out the driver was a nice MacGregor George Bayer Jumbo.. Sweet club!

#17 freddiec

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 09:19 PM

John being the Mac Guro that he is knew it was a Bayer from looking at it from 30 feet away.One of us should have offered him 25 bucks for it, but I think after we spoke to him, he knew he had a great club. John, it was funny how when the kid walked off the 1st tee you said to him "put a head cover on that", lol  :good:

Edited by freddiec, 16 June 2010 - 09:22 PM.


#18 2OnePutt

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 07:17 AM

Nice story Fred and John... I thought I lost my one any only old school head cover, but I found it this morning.. whew!  Anyways carried my Powerbilt 5 wood (FYI should have carried the 3, but decided not to)yesterday afternoon only hit it twice.  First time from 250 out wind at my back front edge of the green.. that was nice.  Second time into the wind on a 215 yard Par 3.. bad idea landed short finished with double bogey there..probably should have known better than that... looked great though.. spend the rest of the round hitting missing 1 iron instead Posted Image.  Roy Kizer is my new nemesis .. the course not the man.  Have not played putted well there this season at all, but I keep going back for some reason Posted Image

#19 charge

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 07:20 AM

I miss my Texan 14* 3 wood. Used throughout the nineties.




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