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Blueprinting a putter?


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#1 David Hillman

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 02:03 PM

So I have this putter, and for various reasons it is irreplacable.  By that I mean, if it were lost or destroyed tomorrow, I could not buy another one anywhere as it's 50-odd years old.  What I'd like to do, as insurance so to speak, is 'blueprint' it for lack of a better term, so that if necessary, I could try to have someone build a replica.  What data would be required?  Is there is a non-destructive way to determine it ( ie I really don't want to pull the head off the shaft ).  Obviously overall length and weight, and lie and loft are easy.  Head weight and material are harder.  Luckily I think it predates any concepts of voids within heads, and it's such a slim blade there wouldn't be much room anyway.  Does anyone happen to know what an ancient Golf Pride Pro-Only grip weighs?

   The backstory is, this is the only putter I've ever used, except for two recent rounds in Hawaii.  I didn't dare take my putter on the plane, so I built a vaguely-similar 8802 'travel putter'.  It's horrible, though, I was all over the place with the new stick.  It would be great if I could have someone build me a replica that played the same, or nearly so.

   Thanks.


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#2 David Hillman

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 02:32 PM

Replying to my own post after having a brain-storm... if I can figure out the material, I can measure the volume of the head ( by sticking it in a measuring cup of water ) and calculate the weight.  The error will be the hollow section of the hosel, if any.  Right?

#3 thegolfguy007

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 03:36 PM

you can buy the stuff to make a latex mold of it also

#4 502 to Right

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 05:55 PM

Post pics if you can.  You can calculate the headweight of the putter head based on swingweight and overall weight of the putter.  BTW - a Pro Only grip weighs 50 grams.

#5 hbear

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 07:44 PM

You did mention not wanting to pull the shaft, but it's a very minor and easy thing to do.
Would give you your headweight, and allow for an easy "replica" mold to be made.

Other things to consider are toe hang, loft, lie, etc.

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#6 jfzhorseman

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 07:50 PM

I can't believe that you would get better results going the mold direction over a continuous search on ebay and getting the closest possible thing and tinkering with that.

#7 funkyfedora

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 07:50 PM

This should help.

Posted Image

#8 David Hillman

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 09:26 PM

View Post502 to Right, on 06 April 2010 - 05:55 PM, said:

Post pics if you can.  You can calculate the headweight of the putter head based on swingweight and overall weight of the putter.  BTW - a Pro Only grip weighs 50 grams.

   You will no doubt be horrified by the pictures, compared to most on this forum, but here you go.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

hbear said:

You did mention not wanting to pull the shaft, but it's a very minor and easy thing to do.



   I know, I built my own shaft extractor and have broken down other clubs.  I'm just afraid, given the age and condition of this one, that I'd break it.


jfzhorseman said:


I can't believe that you would get better results going the mold direction over a continuous search on ebay and getting the closest possible thing and tinkering with that.



   This is probably true.  There are some similar Ironmaster-like putters on there all the time, which may be close enough.  That said, I still need some data on the current one.  I know the length, but not the head or swing weights.

   Thanks.



#9 Will Par

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 09:51 PM

You may find a similar Ironmaster type putter, but it will probably be impossible to develop a clone with a shaft and grip that has characteristics identical to your favorite. I'm sure the feel of the shaft is unique and that fact will make finding a replacement difficult. (I wouldn't pull the shaft either.) Take good care of it and keep an eye out for one on eBay. You can setup an eBay saved search (for Ironmaster) and get an email daily showing all new listings. Sooner or later you may come across one just like yours.

#10 502 to Right

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 11:15 PM

Do not pull the shaft.  You can learn a lot from swingweight and static weight.  I already know the grip is 50 grams.  I'm betting the head is around 300 grams.

What is the length?  Does the shaft have any markings on it?

BTW - no shame in how it looks.  It's how it performs that counts.

Edited by 502 to Right, 06 April 2010 - 11:16 PM.


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#11 funkyfedora

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 11:49 PM

Did my post not show up? Because that chart has the answer to the headweight issue.

#12 David Hillman

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 08:06 AM

View PostWill Par, on 06 April 2010 - 09:51 PM, said:

You may find a similar Ironmaster type putter, but it will probably be impossible to develop a clone with a shaft and grip that has characteristics identical to your favorite. I'm sure the feel of the shaft is unique and that fact will make finding a replacement difficult. (I wouldn't pull the shaft either.) Take good care of it and keep an eye out for one on eBay. You can setup an eBay saved search (for Ironmaster) and get an email daily showing all new listings. Sooner or later you may come across one just like yours.


   Already did that a few weeks ago.  Ironmasters are on there all the time, but no one has seen one just like this ( I asked on puttertalk a while back for help identifying it, and struck out ).  The 'taking good care of it' part is probably too late; the shaft is bent and rusty, and it was that way 20 years ago when I got from my father.  I never thought to ask my grandfather who got mad and bent it, him or my dad.

View Post502 to Right, on 06 April 2010 - 11:15 PM, said:

Do not pull the shaft.  You can learn a lot from swingweight and static weight.  I already know the grip is 50 grams.  I'm betting the head is around 300 grams.

What is the length?  Does the shaft have any markings on it?

BTW - no shame in how it looks.  It's how it performs that counts.


   I'm not ashamed of it, I just wanted to warn those with delicate constitutions.  The length is 34", and has no markings.  Neither does the head, obviously.  It is a very light putter, lighter than any other I can remember picking up, save kids models.  I would guess the head weight is probably closer to 250g.

   A quick experiment seems to agree.  I just measured the volume of the head at around 32 cc, and if it is a typical steel, that would weigh around 260g.

View Postfunkyfedora, on 06 April 2010 - 11:49 PM, said:

Did my post not show up? Because that chart has the answer to the headweight issue.

   Your post is there, and helpful, but what grip weight does it assume?  Also, I don't know the SW at the moment.

   Thanks again.

#13 stage1350

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 08:18 AM

Post pics of the sole and any relevant stampings.  

Given that it's an Ironmaster type, have you tried purchasing other IM/IMG clubs?  MacGregor did a Milled VIP series that included an IMG type and Tommy Armour did the Silver Scot Collector 3450, though it has a composite shaft.  

Given time and trial/error, you should be able to find a similar stick with the same shaft type and feel.  Slap a new "Pro Only" grip on it, though you may have to settle for a Pingman since that's the closest equivalent.  Once you find a similar swingweight, pull the head on that putter to determine your weight.
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#14 David Hillman

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 10:48 AM

Quote

   Post pics of the sole and any relevant stampings.
   Given that it's an Ironmaster type, have you tried purchasing other
   IM/IMG clubs? MacGregor did a Milled VIP series that included an IMG
   type and Tommy Armour did the Silver Scot Collector 3450, though it has
   a composite shaft.
   Given time and trial/error, you should be able to find a similar stick
   with the same shaft type and feel. Slap a new "Pro Only" grip on it,
   though you may have to settle for a Pingman since that's the closest
   equivalent. Once you find a similar swingweight, pull the head on that
   putter to determine your weight.

   There are no markings on the head at all.  Well, there are dings and dents, as you can see, but nothing intentional.  It is completely blank, with no hint of who made it, or when.  Definitely adds to the mystery.

   The idea behind studying, or blueprinting, this putter, is to avoid having to purchase dozens of examples in search of a similar one.  I realize many of you are collectors, so the idea of 'avoiding buying putters' is a strange one ;)  I've only had 3 putters, this one, my first half-assed attempt at a replica of it, and a Ping I found on the road near my office last fall.

#15 8thehardway

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 11:54 AM

Research Northwestern putters - maybe the designer had an apprentice, left notes, etc.  Here's a picture of the Model 400.

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  • Northwestern Putter.jpg


#16 Spinach

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 12:34 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/...#ht_1964wt_1320

#17 Mattro

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 12:44 PM

If you want a head that is to the exact specs look in the phone book and find someone that does milling, the guy that does my chrome work told me about a milling place and he told me to bring in anything I wanted and the computer would scan it and do what it does and make an identical one.  Cost $150  maybe a bit pricey but it's a route to go.

#18 toys4tots16

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:48 PM

I swear I saw that exact putter at a play it again near me. It had no other markings, same head shape, and that weird bullseye thing on the face... next time I am up that was I will check it out...
Gabe

#19 PuttingDoctor

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 07:41 AM

Mattro hits the nail on the head! Any competent CNC machinist can do a "take off" and generate a head to the same dimensions. However the newer metals are much denser than the metal used in the day of production of your present putter so that creates a bit of a problem to work around.

However it's easier to remove weight than to add IMO.

Check out http://gottagolfstudio.com for putter restoration and customization. Operated by a PGA Member they do some amazing stuff and have a full CNC machine.




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