79 replies to this topic

[rymail00]

joey3108, on Dec 14 2009, 12:19 PM, said:

Most of people who doesn't work on club on daily basis and not installed enough Mitsubishi product will not gonna be able to catch this easily. I have customer argue that he bought the REAL one and I kept on telling him it's a FAKE, He won't believe me until he snapped one and try to get a replacement....the placed he bought it from won't do it for whatever reason they gave him.

He called Mitsubishi and they told him it was a FAKE.

What I can tell you is that " they are pretty good in faking it ". Scary and It's out there!!!

BCC, on Dec 14 2009, 02:15 PM, said:

Great posting msfix13....Makes it extremely difficult for us Authorized Dealers to move a great product when the eBay temptation to nut a great price is there. Best thing I tell customers is the old " If it's too good to be true--IT IS !!! Mitsubishi is doing the best they can to deter this, so it's great you called this out for people to recognize and hopefully contact these Manufacturers with info on where the fakes are purchased !!
It is a plague on eBay right now for Fake Golf Equipment and even harder on Golf Shops who produce the real deal......

This is just inbelievable. I used to buy from ebay quite a bit. I would grab fairway woods, hybrids, balls, but not anymore.

Spending the extra $100 bucks for a shaft or driver but know its legit seems the ONLY way to go now. Plus I never knew that if shaft bought from authorized dealer like Joe Kwok and I am assuming Chip Usher and all other certified dealers that it could be replaced (if broke throughout normal play of course).

I actually just bought a set of used PX Flighted 5.0, 4-pw shafts for $75 bucks off the BST and now I am a little nerouvs. The seller had 15 positive feedback but now I will always wonder when I don't get them through a authorized dealer.

[FATC1TY]

SimonC, on Dec 20 2009, 05:21 AM, said:

I've recently purchased an ozik xcon 6 from 'willpga' on eBay. It was a very good price so I'm getting a bit worried now, has anyone ever bought a shaft from this seller?  He has over 25,000 positive feedback so I thought it would be ok. Thanks in advance.

willpga is a good seller, he sells real stuff.. I've bought from him before.

BTW, look out for the seller firstgolf on eBay.. Beastar changed his name. Check out the fake weights and headcovers.

[finalist]

Scanlun, on Dec 19 2009, 11:02 PM, said:

I need some of your help in determining whether or not I have the real deal here.  I purchased this off one of the individuals mentioned earlier in this thread.  Some of the items discussed at the beginning of this post seem to match up with what I have while others do not.  Your comments/thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  I have already sent a message to the seller regarding the speculation surrounding the item(s) he sold/is selling.  Thanks for all of your input.
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So is Scanlun's Kai 'Li real? The spacing between the first M and the second M looks to be legit like the OP's real shaft.

EDIT:  NM... I see that it's made by "Mitsubi   Shi" rather than Mitsubishi.

Edited by finalist, 21 December 2009 - 11:19 AM.

[David Hillman]

laseranimal, on Dec 19 2009, 06:52 PM, said:

and you know that the scammers will simply look at the high res photos and then use them to make better fakes

it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if people are using the typeset to spot fakes then the counterfitters need to do a better job getting the typeset correct.  Its pretty clear that the counterfeit guys are getting better and better at what they do.

   This is possible, but I think any forger serious enough to make a good fake would just buy 1 legit shaft to copy.  That's a minimal expense compared to the rest of the operation.  Meanwhile, very few buyers will have a legit shaft to compare with, so more information is going to help them far more than a scammer.

   Good point, though, I almost posted the same thing last week until I thought about it more.

[msfix13]

Scanlun, on Dec 19 2009, 11:02 PM, said:

I need some of your help in determining whether or not I have the real deal here.  I purchased this off one of the individuals mentioned earlier in this thread.  Some of the items discussed at the beginning of this post seem to match up with what I have while others do not.  Your comments/thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  I have already sent a message to the seller regarding the speculation surrounding the item(s) he sold/is selling.  Thanks for all of your input.
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Contact Mitsubishi. The manufacturing label isn't right, the hologram sticker is difficult to judge. You will need better pictures of the stickers/labels, laser etching, and the associated packaging. A real Kai' Li sold as legit and uninstalled would or should also have the Mitsubishi shaft bag that it ships in. I would also ask for a Mitsubishi packing slip and a Mitsubishi invoice (the invoice can be redacted to protect the disclosure of the wholesale pricing). Any legit dealer would be able to supply this on demand to help establish a paper trail for any suspicious buyer. An honest seller that is certain of the authenticity of his products can prove that they have purchased the shaft directly from Mitsubishi.  

Buy from a dealer listed on Mitsubishi's web site and this shouldn't be necssary.

[finalist]

Shaft Bag? Any pics? I'm guessing it's a clear plastic bag with logos on it?
Thanks

[msfix13]

finalist, on Dec 22 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

Shaft Bag? Any pics? I'm guessing it's a clear plastic bag with logos on it?
Thanks

Here's a couple of BlueBoard's with the factory bag.

[mikeyun1992]

Scanlun, on Dec 19 2009, 10:02 PM, said:

I need some of your help in determining whether or not I have the real deal here. I purchased this off one of the individuals mentioned earlier in this thread. Some of the items discussed at the beginning of this post seem to match up with what I have while others do not. Your comments/thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I have already sent a message to the seller regarding the speculation surrounding the item(s) he sold/is selling. Thanks for all of your input.
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Sorry, but i'm 99.99% sure it's a fake kai'li. i just purchased one from ebay and i'm sure that's fake as well, it should be arriving soon. i'll post some pics if it's fake.

[rymail00]

Just a question, but wouldn't these bags be probably the easiest thing replicate

[msfix13]

rymail00, on Dec 22 2009, 08:54 PM, said:

Just a question, but wouldn't these bags be probably the easiest thing replicate

Certainly, the bag would be simple to replicate. However, it is the details that trip the counterfeiters up. A shaft from Mitsubishi comes with the pastic shaft bag, it is shipped in a Mitsubishi branded carton, has a packing list, and the dealer will get an invoice in the mail seperate from the shaft carton.

Again, the absolute and most certain guarantor of getting a genuine Mitsubishi shaft is to buy it directly from an authorized dealer that you can verify is authorized by Mitsubishi - not terribly difficult, go to www.mitsubishirayongolf.com  and check the dealer locator. The Ebay scams where the seller's guarantee the shaft is genuine and authentic is a farce - very few golfers know how to detect a fake shaft. The positive feedback is from unsuspecting buyers who have been fleeced. In the rare event where the buyer suspects a fake, the seller is only too happy to pay the return shipping and refund the money. And the dishonesty goes on and on.

[kyledeen]

just to review...

if it's got a white label that says "MITSUBISHI" (Not MITSUBI SHI), laser etching, and a hologram sticker, its legit?

thanks for the catch

Edited by kyledeen, 23 December 2009 - 12:07 PM.

[david92]

...or even Mitsubishi...!!!

[finalist]

So for now is the laser etching and CPM the most sure way to tell the fakes from the real deals?

Seems like the white sticker and hologram are easy to fake. The shaft bag is the easiest to fake, but also a minor detail the counterfeiters may not reproduce for added expense.

[msfix13]

kyledeen, on Dec 23 2009, 12:03 PM, said:

just to review...

if it's got a white label that says "MITSUBISHI" (Not MITSUBI SHI), laser etching, and a hologram sticker, its legit?

thanks for the catch

No. As the counterfeiting gets better and better, it is a certainty that the labeling issue will be corrected, laser etching will be added and/or improved, and hologram stickers will be indistinguishable from real ones.

finalist, on Dec 23 2009, 12:20 PM, said:

So for now is the laser etching and CPM the most sure way to tell the fakes from the real deals?

Seems like the white sticker and hologram are easy to fake. The shaft bag is the easiest to fake, but also a minor detail the counterfeiters may not reproduce for added expense.

No. Laser etching may already be in the supply chain for the counterfeiters, so that will cease to be an effective tool. Butt frequency is not going to tell you anything. I have Fuji's that have the same butt frequency as some Mitsubishi's and Matrix shafts - they are all distinctly different, yet the CPM's are the same. Neither is CPM's an indicator of predicted quality. Other than in a very gross sense, you cannot use butt frequency as a counterfeit indicator. An X-Stiff that measures 225 CPM is almost certainly a fake, but what if the shaft measured 270 CPM? What would that tell you?

Every year the counterfeiters get better. Every year buyers throw caution to the wind in search of a deal. Every year buyers assume positive feedback on EBay is an indicator of authenticity. And, every year buyers get burned -knowingly or not.

The only way to stop this illegal and dishonest practice is for buyers to make use of the simplest tool available - the manufacturers authorized dealer listing. Without ready and eager buyers, counterfeiters have no market.

[rstout]

I bought an 80S Kai' Li this summer for my 3 wood on ebay for $150. It was a pulled shaft and still had the grip on it, I now know that I should have asked more questions, but I will make sure to do it in the future. I had no reason to believe it was not the real deal because it is the best shaft I have played in any wood. This post had me curious so I pulled my near new grip off to check...and I have been playing the real thing. WHEW! There is some very valuable information here for those that buy used or from ebay. THANK YOU!

P.S. GolfWRX is the best golf club ho site ever!

[mikeyun1992]

i have to say this is a great site.
i just received the shaft and slit open the grip and it's authentic! whew as well. i got lucky!

[leet74]

has anyone bought kai'li off ebay seller "prvgolf" ? (Dive In Golf)   http://shop.ebay.co....p;_trksid=p4340

is selling lots of premium shafts and Japan forged heads

Edited by leet74, 31 December 2009 - 07:45 PM.

[fede3001]

I got a Kai´li shaft from proclubsdirect, and is 100% genuine, just for those who were talking about this guys, good deal trough Ebay, fast shipping!

[Swingie]

Not enuff posts to validate your claims fede3001 and without a profile......

[SweetTeaGolfer]

Does anyone know if the R11 TP shafts would have the butt sticker?