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Counterfeit Diamana Kai' Li's


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#1 msfix13

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 04:59 PM

Recently had a client bring in 2 Diamana Kaií Li shafts for installation in a couple of drivers. The paint job looked legit. See if you can spot the fakes.
kl1.jpg
Given the cost of these at legit retail pricing, I asked how much he paid for them - $150 each off of EBay. After closer examination the fakes were clearly obvious.

kl2.jpg
kl5.jpg
kl4.jpg
kl3.jpg
kl51.jpg
The attempts at duplicating the labels arenít bad, but itís easy to spot the fakes. First, the font type and size are wrong, and the manufacturers coding is missing a character. Second, the spacing between the bar code and the crypto hash is incorrect. Third, the crypto hash mark is the same on the 2 fakes Ė something that can never occur (every hash mark is unique and different). Fourth, the alphanumeric font and spacing is incorrect on the hologram label. Fifth, the laser etching on the shafts is incorrect.

The top shaft in each photo is the legit Kai' Li.

The coup de grace: out of curiosity, I checked the butt frequency against a real Kaií Li. The fakes were a 60R and a 60S, both measured 228 cpm using a Mitchell Digiflex. The real Kaií Li was a 60S and measured 244 cpm.

My now dejected client was kind enough to supply the EBay id of the seller: beastar7. They were shipped from an address in San Diego, Ca. There are at least 2 other sellers offering Kaií Liís that are almost certainly counterfeit. One of them was easy to trace through Googling their EBay store name, checking the Arizona Corporation Commission files, and then crossing the multiple business names against Mitsubishiís dealer listing. The other even specifies in his listing he isnít an authorized dealer. Caveat emptor!

The photos were sent to Mitsubishi and the shafts in question verified as counterfeit.

How to protect yourself from counterfeit products? Trying to get something for nothing is only making you an easy target for these thieves. No question that golf equipment is expensive, and some of the most desirable stuff is very expensive, but that makes it easier to pull a scam on the unsuspecting. Sadly, the counterfeit products are getting better and tougher to spot; in addition to spanning a broader number of products.
ē If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is a fake.
ē Ask the seller for proof they are an authorized dealer.
      o A copy of an invoice from the manufacturer with their name and address (pricing information can always be redacted)
      o You should be able to find their name on the manufacturers dealer listing
               If in doubt call the manufacturer for verification of the dealer
ē Even on WRX, sellers should be willing to identify their legal business names, the business names listed with the manufacturers. If they wonít disclose their business name, it ought to raise a red flag. Counterfeiting isnít confined to EBay.


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#2 Dasenergi

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 06:50 PM

another seller selling the fakes exactly like the ones pictured above is seller  he also sells a ton of Rombax shafts that are known for being one of the top faked shafts. Buyer beware.

Removed this sellers name as he immediately resolved the issue, as soon as i brought it to his attention

Edited by Dasenergi, 21 December 2009 - 12:37 PM.


#3 holeinone2007

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 07:32 PM

I agree if the price is too good to be true, you should beware! I have purchased from guys on ebay and have often wondered if I would be able to tell the diffrence between real and conterfit. I have been amazed what people go through to counterfit products. I have heard of a few ebayers selling counterfit Kai'lis and other products. I have purchased a Kai'li from High launch golf and my latest was a Diamana Stinger which I was there when it was delivered in the original Diamana package. Buy from a legit company and this will help eliminate the question of counterfit products.

#4 wdwfan78

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 07:33 PM

I notice that same seller is also selling the new Nike Machspeed driver. Wonder how legitimate that one is.
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#5 Dog Lover

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 07:35 PM

Great post. Thanks for the heads up.

Funny, I had previously noticied those "Beastar" auctions and I was suspect because they appeared to be selling fake R9 adaptors as well.  Figured if they were willing to rip people off on R9 adaptors, why would their Kai Li and Rombax offerings be legit especially at those prices?

The sad thing is that I just checked the feedback records on Ebay for both Beastar7 and fxxxxe_s and it shows 100% satisfaction for each. Yikes!


#6 dpark

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 07:50 PM

msfix13, thank you for taking the time to post this information!!!!!
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#7 willpeoples

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 07:58 PM

very interesting.

#8 Nuttygolfer

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 08:00 PM

View PostDasenergi, on Dec 13 2009, 03:50 PM, said:

another seller selling the fakes exactly like the ones pictured above is seller fxxxxe_s he also sells a ton of Rombax shafts that are known for being one of the top faked shafts. Buyer beware.


Here are a few more selling counterfeit Kai'li

namebrandsgreatdeals
cantfindclubs
proclubsdirect

#9 marrigo

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 08:15 PM

I think the one from Proclubsdirect look legit.
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#10 elrey23

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 08:22 PM

View PostNuttygolfer, on Dec 13 2009, 07:00 PM, said:

View PostDasenergi, on Dec 13 2009, 03:50 PM, said:

another seller selling the fakes exactly like the ones pictured above is seller fxxxxe_s he also sells a ton of Rombax shafts that are known for being one of the top faked shafts. Buyer beware.


Here are a few more selling counterfeit Kai'li

namebrandsgreatdeals
cantfindclubs
proclubsdirect

I don't think the proclubsdirect is fake and I would be sure before I just start throwing around names and messing with people's reputations. In the listing on ebay, the pic is of a legit shaft. Now whether that is what you get is another thing.


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#11 msfix13

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 08:29 PM

Funny how we're certain something is genuine (or fake). A picture on an EBay listing is not worth much. I looked up proclubsdirect and came up with this:
Whois owner for www.proclubsdirect.com
Kxxx Rxxxxs
Global Golf Exchange
2432 W Peoria Ave Ste 1041
Phoenix, AZ 85029



Scottsdale, Az 85260

Mitsubishi doesn't list either Global Golf Exchange or Pro Clubs Direct as a dealer. There are plenty of legit Mitsu dealers in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area, so who knows if this is really a grey-market operation of a legit dealer. But, I wouldn't put my money on the line.

Edited by easyyy, 14 December 2009 - 01:04 AM.
no full names please


#12 Dasenergi

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 12:49 AM

Ive purchased from proclubsdirect before with no issues... and would recommend them

#13 ph00ny

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 03:16 AM

maybe we should get a sticky with a list of these fake selling ebayers

#14 cb_golfer

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 04:35 AM

View Postmsfix13, on Dec 13 2009, 01:59 PM, said:


Did the fakes have the laser etching (right of the label on the first shaft)?

Edited by cb_golfer, 14 December 2009 - 04:38 AM.


#15 leet74

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 05:41 AM

"beastar" is also well known for being one of many FAKE R9 TP sleeve sellers


i too was considering buying a Kai'Li or Ali'Isle off "proclubsdirect" his do look Real but there only $199?


#16 msfix13

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 07:25 AM

View PostDasenergi, on Dec 14 2009, 12:49 AM, said:

Ive purchased from proclubsdirect before with no issues... and would recommend them
The fundamental problem with counterfeit items is that only the most egregiously poor copies are spotted by the consumer. The question to ask is how does a consumer know the specific details to examine? If you were given one of the fake Kai' Li's I examined (without the benefit of having a legit Kai' Li direct from Mitsubishi) on hand) how would you know what you have? Looking at the paint scheme is not a good investigation. In the case I encountered, the paint scheme was very, very good.

Seriously, how many consumers would know that the crypto hash mark was copied? How many consumers even know what the crypto hash mark is and what it is used for?

This is not the first case of counterfeited Diamana's I've seen, but it is the best copy I've seen to date. I hear the same thing over and over: "I've never had an issue before".

To be fair, suspicious indicators aren't an absolute indictment. A $200 sales price for a msrp $400 item, and not being an authorized dealer should give reason to suspect. Again, if the desire to own a Kai' Li is born of the real or perceived performance benefits, why take the chance of getting a fake? If the real motivation is vanity or ego, well you get what you pay for.

The obvious retort is how do I know if the offered item is fake without being able to examine it? I don't. What I do know is that the pricing is well below what any sane legitimate dealer would attempt. Manufacturers terminate accounts for this type of behavior - not a smart thing to do for a legitimate dealer.

#17 msfix13

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 07:30 AM

View Postcb_golfer, on Dec 14 2009, 04:35 AM, said:

View Postmsfix13, on Dec 13 2009, 01:59 PM, said:


Did the fakes have the laser etching (right of the label on the first shaft)?
Check the pictures carefully. In each picture, the legit shaft is at the top.

#18 Mick Ill Son!

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 10:29 AM

Authorized dealers can only sell these shafts for MAP which is $380. If you purchase one for less it is At best Greymarket if not black market shaft. At worst it is a total fake piece of crap. In addition, if you get one installed by an authorized dealer, you have a warranty! If it breaks in the course of normal pay you will get a brand new one.

#19 driverwedge

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 10:34 AM

View PostDasenergi, on Dec 14 2009, 12:49 AM, said:

Ive purchased from proclubsdirect before with no issues... and would recommend them

+1.
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#20 kevcarter

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 10:36 AM

Wow msfix13, that just makes me ill. No way I would have known it was fake...

It makes me wonder how often we have seen a review trashing a shaft, and unbeknown to the reviewer, he didn't even have the real deal!

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#21 cb_golfer

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 10:50 AM

View Postmsfix13, on Dec 14 2009, 04:30 AM, said:

View Postcb_golfer, on Dec 14 2009, 04:35 AM, said:

View Postmsfix13, on Dec 13 2009, 01:59 PM, said:


Did the fakes have the laser etching (right of the label on the first shaft)?
Check the pictures carefully. In each picture, the legit shaft is at the top.

The fakes had the hologram sticker where I was expecting to see the etching. That's just a red flag to me. I did learn something new on the crypto.

#22 goondawg

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 11:05 AM

View PostDasenergi, on Dec 14 2009, 01:49 AM, said:

Ive purchased from proclubsdirect before with no issues... and would recommend them

+1. Proclubsdirect doesn't sell fakes.
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#23 joey3108

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 12:19 PM

Most of people who doesn't work on club on daily basis and not installed enough Mitsubishi product will not gonna be able to catch this easily. I have customer argue that he bought the REAL one and I kept on telling him it's a FAKE, He won't believe me until he snapped one and try to get a replacement....the placed he bought it from won't do it for whatever reason they gave him.

He called Mitsubishi and they told him it was a FAKE.

What I can tell you is that " they are pretty good in faking it ". Scary and It's out there!!!

#24 desaille

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 12:21 PM

so other than on the butt
Can you see anything on the shaft itself?
Any distinctive tells, usually the MITSUBISHI RAYON or 60S or the DIAMANA are different

Cause you do see these already shafted and gripped.
How would one know what to look for as many wont take the grip off to authenticate

#25 leet74

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 12:24 PM

one thing i notice is that the Fakes pictured do not have a strip of cellotape over the butt sticker. Obvious sign of a  fake,

real Diamana's have been coming with cellotape over the sticker for a while now (a'la Matrix)

Edited by leet74, 15 April 2010 - 04:49 PM.


#26 joey3108

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 12:29 PM

It's hard to see when everything was installed!

I know for sure that the clear coat on the fake shaft is easily pealed off ( cheap paint job ), however, a good painters would easily solve that problem IMO. So They will improve their technique on faking it base on the popularity of the shaft in the market.

#27 caller

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 01:13 PM

Even though I buy lots of clubs from ebay, I wanted to make sure I get the legit shaft and put in correctly.

I had Chip Usher to put one in my gamer and it is solid.

#28 ajgoodal.704

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 01:32 PM

Any comments about all the Voodoo shafts (non-pulls) going for between $50-$75 these days? Also, I've never had a problem with proclubsdirect.
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#29 misterpak

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 01:57 PM

Man oh man I think I am playing with a counterfeit. Anyone else currently playing with a fake Kai'li installed? I should have known when my clubmaker took off the grip to reveal Mitsubishi spelled "Mitsubi           shi". Funny thing is I've been driving the ball better than I ever have with this fake Kai'li in my setup.

#30 delrmx01

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 02:08 PM

View PostNuttygolfer, on Dec 13 2009, 05:00 PM, said:

View PostDasenergi, on Dec 13 2009, 03:50 PM, said:

another seller selling the fakes exactly like the ones pictured above is seller fxxxxe_s he also sells a ton of Rombax shafts that are known for being one of the top faked shafts. Buyer beware.


Here are a few more selling counterfeit Kai'li

namebrandsgreatdeals
cantfindclubs
proclubsdirect

I can account for "namebrandsgreatdeals" as selling counterfeit.  I purchased a Kai'Li several weeks ago.  Luckily, she returned my money.


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