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Shaft lean at address?


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#1 brew4eagle

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 07:09 PM

I get the impression that there are 2 camps with regards to shaft angle at address.  Some golfers seem to set up with their hands at the ball, so there's no (or very little) forward shaft lean at address, while others use the built in shaft lean of the club combined with ball position to determine hand position resulting in a good amount of shaft lean at address for the shorter irons/wedges.

It feels natural for me to set up with my hands over the ball, with no shaft lean.  However, I feel this causes me to hit the ball with more loft than intended for the given club (and hit it shorter), and may be the reason I tend to struggle with wedges compared to players of my general ability (shoot in the mid-80s on avg) yet tend to hit the driver and longer irons better than most players of my ability (since the built in shaft lean is less for the longer clubs when compared to wedges).  Might also be the reason I take very small divots if any.

Anyways, is one of these address positions recognized as more proper/fundamental?

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#2 goldfinger007

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 07:45 PM

 brew4eagle, on Dec 7 2009, 07:09 PM, said:

I get the impression that there are 2 camps with regards to shaft angle at address.  Some golfers seem to set up with their hands at the ball, so there's no (or very little) forward shaft lean at address, while others use the built in shaft lean of the club combined with ball position to determine hand position resulting in a good amount of shaft lean at address for the shorter irons/wedges.

It feels natural for me to set up with my hands over the ball, with no shaft lean.  However, I feel this causes me to hit the ball with more loft than intended for the given club (and hit it shorter), and may be the reason I tend to struggle with wedges compared to players of my general ability (shoot in the mid-80s on avg) yet tend to hit the driver and longer irons better than most players of my ability (since the built in shaft lean is less for the longer clubs when compared to wedges).  Might also be the reason I take very small divots if any.

Anyways, is one of these address positions recognized as more proper/fundamental?

You're talking about the difference between address hand position and impact hand position.  As to (more proper/fundamental) the club and shot selection can have some bearing on which needs to happen.  A lower chip or pitch can be well served by an impact hand position with the ball more to the rear of the stance.  For long clubs and fuller swings the more prominently used position is address hand position: however, it's important to note that impact hand position at impact can produce the greatest compression.
You may want to determine if you are flipping or throwing the club head away at impact.

#3 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 07:56 PM

Shaft lean is dictated mostly by ball position.  If your hands are above the ball with a driver...not so bad.  If it is over the ball with a wedge, short pitch or chip...you are asking for some major problems.  First and foremost, it is very diffiuclt to turn the club away like that.  You are almost forced to initiate the takeaway with the hands.
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#4 iteachgolf

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 08:31 PM

To me it's all about the type of shot you'd like to hit.  Biggest push/draw handle most forward and biggest pull/cut the hands furthest behind the ball.

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 05:34 AM

i found that when i had to much shaft lean on wedge shots i tended to smother the ball at impact causing me to hit shots low and left.since i returned to a more neutral set up i am hitting the ball with the correct loft and i am taking shallower divots!


#6 Kevin SHields

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 07:26 AM

Start with mid body hands and learn to move dynamically to forward hands. Except maybe some shorter shots.

#7 Kevin SHields

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 07:28 AM

 iteachgolf, on Dec 7 2009, 08:31 PM, said:

To me it's all about the type of shot you'd like to hit. Biggest push/draw handle most forward and biggest pull/cut the hands furthest behind the ball.


Are you suggesting that a player actually do this to start a ball left and cut it?

#8 tony_teetime

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 09:20 AM

 Kevin SHields, on Dec 8 2009, 07:26 AM, said:

Start with mid body hands and learn to move dynamically to forward hands. Except maybe some shorter shots.
+1   :good:

I do it the same way with all full swing  and perhaps a preset open hip and slight shaft lean at setup for shorter shot (chip and mini pitch)

Keep in mind that at impact position , your body position will not be the same as when you set up.  At setup time,  your knees , hips and shoulder line are parallel to the target.  But at impact your knee and hip line are open to the target.  So when you return your hands to the mid body with this open hip , it will put your hands ahead with the forward shaft lean automatically if you release correctly.

So for full swing , start with mid body hands and learn to move dynamically to forward hands.

#9 jeffblais09

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 10:32 AM

straight line from shaft through left arm, or lead arm i should say. just how jack nicklaus says to do it. works for me. just my 2 cents tho

#10 gmbtempe

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 11:21 AM

 brew4eagle, on Dec 7 2009, 05:09 PM, said:

I get the impression that there are 2 camps with regards to shaft angle at address.  Some golfers seem to set up with their hands at the ball, so there's no (or very little) forward shaft lean at address, while others use the built in shaft lean of the club combined with ball position to determine hand position resulting in a good amount of shaft lean at address for the shorter irons/wedges.

It feels natural for me to set up with my hands over the ball, with no shaft lean.  However, I feel this causes me to hit the ball with more loft than intended for the given club (and hit it shorter), and may be the reason I tend to struggle with wedges compared to players of my general ability (shoot in the mid-80s on avg) yet tend to hit the driver and longer irons better than most players of my ability (since the built in shaft lean is less for the longer clubs when compared to wedges).  Might also be the reason I take very small divots if any.

Anyways, is one of these address positions recognized as more proper/fundamental?

the both work fine but I would say there are many other components in the swing which would make one better than the other.

For me personally I already have trouble on the backswing with having to push the club around my right hip do to a lack of flexibility, when I use impact hand location it just makes that move worse.


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#11 iteachgolf

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 12:28 PM

 Kevin SHields, on Dec 8 2009, 07:28 AM, said:

 iteachgolf, on Dec 7 2009, 08:31 PM, said:

To me it's all about the type of shot you'd like to hit. Biggest push/draw handle most forward and biggest pull/cut the hands furthest behind the ball.


Are you suggesting that a player actually do this to start a ball left and cut it?
Realistically not on the extreme end no, but for someone trying to hit a cut that starts left I would suggest mid body hands (vertical to maybe slightly backwards shaft lean) with a slightly closed clubface.

#12 Kevin SHields

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 09:13 AM

 jeffblais09, on Dec 8 2009, 10:32 AM, said:

straight line from shaft through left arm, or lead arm i should say. just how jack nicklaus says to do it. works for me. just my 2 cents tho


Interestingly enough, Jack started with forward hands and "un-did" them by the time his hands were at his right thigh. He had a slight lagging clubhead takeaway.

#13 Kevin SHields

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 09:13 AM

 iteachgolf, on Dec 8 2009, 12:28 PM, said:

 Kevin SHields, on Dec 8 2009, 07:28 AM, said:

 iteachgolf, on Dec 7 2009, 08:31 PM, said:

To me it's all about the type of shot you'd like to hit. Biggest push/draw handle most forward and biggest pull/cut the hands furthest behind the ball.


Are you suggesting that a player actually do this to start a ball left and cut it?
Realistically not on the extreme end no, but for someone trying to hit a cut that starts left I would suggest mid body hands (vertical to maybe slightly backwards shaft lean) with a slightly closed clubface.


At Address. I got ya.

#14 jeffblais09

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 11:36 AM

 Kevin SHields, on Dec 9 2009, 09:13 AM, said:

 jeffblais09, on Dec 8 2009, 10:32 AM, said:

straight line from shaft through left arm, or lead arm i should say. just how jack nicklaus says to do it. works for me. just my 2 cents tho


Interestingly enough, Jack started with forward hands and "un-did" them by the time his hands were at his right thigh. He had a slight lagging clubhead takeaway.

i do sumthing very similar haha

#15 drbonesvt

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 04:16 PM

 Kevin SHields, on 08 December 2009 - 07:26 AM, said:

Start with mid body hands and learn to move dynamically to forward hands. Except maybe some shorter shots.

For the last several years ive had forward press into my set up thinking this would lower ball flight and compress the ball better.  Recently, tried the " mid" body hands or over the ball, which actually feels like I have the club leaning back, which when i check in a mirror is about even.  Compression and shot shape is improved.  Feels a little weird, like the left wrist at address is very bent, however, with the forward press it must make my swing path too steep and too much dynamic de lofting at impact.  there was only the front club edge had marks on it, where as the with mid hands there is not as much front edge digging and marks on the entire sole of the club.

With hands mid body, how does one flight the ball down? Ball position further back?

Thanks


#16 drbonesvt

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 10:03 AM

 iteachgolf, on 07 December 2009 - 08:31 PM, said:

To me it's all about the type of shot you'd like to hit.  Biggest push/draw handle most forward and biggest pull/cut the hands furthest behind the ball.

Do  you advocate mid hands like this GOlf.com sergio article  - http://www.golf.com/...-slide-3#237290

I think over the years I have over done the fw press at address and become too steep, only the front edge of my irons have marks on the sole.  Leaned back a little and bam, compression was better, everything felt better.  From a mid hands pos, how would one keep the ball down




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