107 replies to this topic

[madjsp]

hogans71, on Nov 17 2009, 01:57 PM, said:

? --you've questioned a number of Swing threads and their relation to S and T. What are you getting at??

I think it is just maturity level showing.

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[e2ecoach]

Asleep, on Nov 17 2009, 09:36 AM, said:

e2ecoach, on Nov 17 2009, 11:17 AM, said:

Asleep, on Nov 17 2009, 07:46 AM, said:

e2ecoach, on Nov 17 2009, 09:12 AM, said:

...He is considered the #1 Scientific Golf Instructor...

What exactly does that entail?

...the golfing community (golf digest) dubbed him as The #1 Scientific Golf Instructor.

I see he sells his own golf science magazine for $60, irons at $125/per, $325 drivers, $12 optimized grips, $120 putters, $325 & $300 training kits, and a $40 stool.

Do I really need the stool?

You don't need any of his clubs. Any clubs will work.  It is recommended to use his grips (although you don't have to, and they are usga legal).  You can buy the stool at Sam's club or any old stool will do.  The reason the stool is necessary it will help break the habit of the conventional swing of lifting the heels off the ground. The e2 training kit is a must, and will save months of frustration. Only one training kit is needed - e2.

His clubs are awesome, but not necessary.

His golf science magazine is a one time membership ($60) to his online information, it is only online, no physical magazine or anything else.  With it you also get the opportunity to call Jack whenever you have any questions.  With the membership you will be able to read all the scientific information about golf swings, analysis of some of PGA golfers swings, and much more.

[moehogan]

"If you stand up straight, (right handed, without club), grab your left thumb with right hand, both hands now fists infront of your belt buckle about 1" out, now keeping your hands about 1" from your body, without moving your body slowly pull your right elbow back as far as possible, your hands should now be at your right side about 1" from your body. Now as quickly as you can, (without moving your body) pull your left elbow back.
That is the basic movement of the swing.
You can put a club in your hand now, and start with your hands in front of your left pocket (where ball contact will be made) and do the same motion. The more you do it, and vision striking a ball, the concept will start to sink in. "

Sounds a lot like the Jim Hardy drill "Elbows Up, Arms Across" sans the forearm rotation.

[e2ecoach]

moehogan, on Nov 17 2009, 03:59 PM, said:

Sounds a lot like the Jim Hardy drill "Elbows Up, Arms Across" sans the forearm rotation.

Nothing like it, he supports forearm rotation which is necessary in the Traditional/Convention golf swing.  The E2E Swing has NO forearm rotation.

[martinez]

Can you give us any insight into the difference between the LPG body motion and the e2e body motion?

Does Jack still subscribe to the science of clubhead speed being the only factor in determining distance (I have heard that from the horses mouth.....on video)? I happen to agree with him that the majority of power/speed in the golf swing comes from the muscles of the right arm and the clubs relationship to that arm throughout the swing. I don't however see how folding the left arm is the best utilization of those muscles.

[e2ecoach]

martinez, on Nov 18 2009, 12:22 PM, said:

Can you give us any insight into the difference between the LPG body motion and the e2e body motion?

Does Jack still subscribe to the science of clubhead speed being the only factor in determining distance (I have heard that from the horses mouth.....on video)? I happen to agree with him that the majority of power/speed in the golf swing comes from the muscles of the right arm and the clubs relationship to that arm throughout the swing. I don't however see how folding the left arm is the best utilization of those muscles.

difference between the LPG body motion and the e2e body motion:
The actual body motion (excluding arms) is similar, I can't think of any variations.

As far as the next question, to tough for me to answer...  quickly reviewing his website is not enough for me to find the answer,  I know he factors in more that just club head speed.  Below is a cut from his TORQUE TO SHAFT LENGTH explanation.  Along with the statement, he has all the mathematical formulas of different shaft lengths and more. This is one example of why he is the #1 Scientific Golf Instructor.

A 5% increase in the force (applied through the hands to the grip) is necessary to go from 100 mph with a 43" shaft to 102 mph with a 44" shaft. A 25% increase in the force is necessary to go from 100 mph with a 43" shaft to 110 mph with a 48" shaft.

If you cannot generate the additional torque, you will not realize an increase in clubhead velocity. Most humans are at their maximum around a 45" shaft. I estimate that less than 20% of golfers* can provide the increased torque. You must have the maximum number of TYPE IIx fast twitch muscles to use longer shafts.

[martinez]

Cheers.

How large is the pool of 'Scientific golf instructors' of which Jack is apparently the undisputed #1?

[e2ecoach]

I don't know! lol  I don't think he auditioned for it, it just came about.

Here is a website that Jack used to be a guest on called  "Ask the Professor"  he answers all kinds of golf questions.
http://www.scigolf.c.../myths/jack.htm

Edited by e2ecoach, 18 November 2009 - 06:31 PM.

[moehogan]

e2ecoach, on Nov 18 2009, 02:49 PM, said:

moehogan, on Nov 17 2009, 03:59 PM, said:

Sounds a lot like the Jim Hardy drill "Elbows Up, Arms Across" sans the forearm rotation.

Nothing like it, he supports forearm rotation which is necessary in the Traditional/Convention golf swing. The E2E Swing has NO forearm rotation.

Sir,

Please note that "sans" is the Latin word for "WITHOUT".  My observation was taken from Jim Hardy's book, Plane Truth For Golfers, copyright 2005, pages 110-111.

MH

[e2ecoach]

Sorry, my bad.

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[Tanner25]

So, the swing is pull back the left elbow on the backswing with your right
arm and then the left elbow pulls the body through?

Thx,

Aslan

[e2ecoach]

aslan, on Nov 18 2009, 07:19 PM, said:

So, the swing is pull back the left elbow on the backswing with your right
arm and then the left elbow pulls the body through?
Thx, Aslan

Hey, if that is what works for you!   I think the E2E would work better, but it is your choice.

[Tanner25]

e2ecoach, on Nov 18 2009, 11:48 PM, said:

aslan, on Nov 18 2009, 07:19 PM, said:

So, the swing is pull back the left elbow on the backswing with your right
arm and then the left elbow pulls the body through?
Thx, Aslan

Hey, if that is what works for you! I think the E2E would work better, but it is your choice.

Huh, I was just asking for a simple re-cap. Not creating my own version.

Edited by aslan, 19 November 2009 - 08:55 PM.

[e2ecoach]

aslan, on Nov 19 2009, 04:50 PM, said:

Huh, I as just asking for a simple re-cap. Not creating my own version.


So, the swing is pull back the left elbow on the backswing with your right
arm and then the left elbow pulls the body through?
Thx, Aslan

Explain how you pull back the left elbow with your right arm ?  And please show me in the above posts where I stated that.  I have been more than happy to answer any questions about the E2E swing.  If your question was a typo or something then I apologize, it just appears you are trying to mock the swing.

[Tanner25]

e2ecoach, on Nov 19 2009, 08:11 PM, said:

aslan, on Nov 19 2009, 04:50 PM, said:

Huh, I as just asking for a simple re-cap. Not creating my own version.


So, the swing is pull back the left elbow on the backswing with your right
arm and then the left elbow pulls the body through?
Thx, Aslan

Explain how you pull back the left elbow with your right arm ? And please show me in the above posts where I stated that. I have been more than happy to answer any questions about the E2E swing. If your question was a typo or something then I apologize, it just appears you are trying to mock the swing.

Dude, you are mean. Most guys promoting their busines, like iteach, Jeff Evans, MikePGA
are good people. You are not.

I was not mocking your swing.

[e2ecoach]

I am not trying to be mean,

did you read your question?  How can you pull your left elbow back with your right arm?

How does that make sense, while hitting a golf ball?

And it is not my business, I am just an instructor, nothing I have stated benefits me at all.   I am here to answer questions about the
E2E swing, or other about Jack's other swings.

[Cloran]

Big old Bumperuski...

I have joined kuykendallgolf.com so I would be able to read all the posts... very interesting philosophy to me. I've always been one to favor science over "popular" beliefs and Jack seems to have some very solid arguements for his swing.

Are there any updates from some of you guys? Anyone tried it? Use it? etc...

How do you feel the science holds up?

[Milo]

Website reads like a home page for a cult and the swing stands no chance of catching on.

[mystic]

one of the guys I worked with about 4 years ago came in with a kit similar to this.  he loves JK and his ideas.

My first question was what science is behind changing the lever locations?  the primary is still in tact but the secondary forces the moment arm of the primary to be shorter.  Is this saying that using the elbow as a lever is more effective that the glove wrist?  I think the theory behind dual levers holds ground here.

Also, as someone else mentioned, the short arcs are suspect.  During our fun time on the range with this 4 years ago, we talked about how the clubheard arc might actually be longer but I don't think that produces the forces, pressures, and therefore speed like a traditional 2 lever assembly.

its hard to find video of this in action.

[Cloran]

Milo, on Dec 28 2009, 08:25 PM, said:

Website reads like a home page for a cult and the swing stands no chance of catching on.

LOL. A cult of one I suppose. I have always been interested in Moe Norman, and that lead me to Jack. His passion/ physics background makes for some very compelling arguements.

He's also not afraid to stand by his convictions... science in golf moves too slow at times, especially in swing theory.

Here's his challenge. Lets disprove him:

<H2 align=center>Kuykendall's Theories Challenge</H2>


1. The first step will be to study my theories.
   - You should be processing the information as exactly that, information.

2. The second step is to experiment.
   - The objective of experimenting is to confirm or disprove.
   - Trying to disprove the theory should be one of the main criteria in this process.
   - If you can't disprove the theory, then the theory survives.

*If you can disprove one of my theories, then that theory must be modified or abandoned.

<H1>If any of my theories can be disproved, I will give credit to the person who made the discovery and modify or abandon that theory!</H1>

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[Jeff Evans]

Very interesting!

[Cloran]

Jeff Evans, on Dec 29 2009, 08:46 AM, said:

Very interesting!

Hey Jeff, Thanks for jumping in. I'd love to hear what you, Sevam1, Martinez, etc have to say about the physics. The instructors on this forum are some of the best and I really want to see what you all make of Mr. Kuykendall's theories.

[Jeff Evans]

iteachgolf, on Nov 16 2009, 12:47 AM, said:

e2ecoach, on Nov 16 2009, 01:16 AM, said:

glcoach, on Nov 4 2009, 06:46 PM, said:

When I get that desperate to look like a fool to hit a golf ball...I hope someone shoots me.

Have you been to a driving range lately?  Half the people there would need to be shot then.

So first natural golf and now this elbow to elbow swing.  These seems like such radical ideas, and while a great marketing idea, I'm not sure how well these would hold up in high level tournament golf.   I am not saying you are wrong and I'd love for you to go into more explanation of what exactly you are prescribing with this swing before I make any judgements.  Seems to me you would be severely limited distance wise based on these pictures.

Cloran, on Dec 29 2009, 09:08 AM, said:

Jeff Evans, on Dec 29 2009, 08:46 AM, said:

Very interesting!

Hey Jeff, Thanks for jumping in. I'd love to hear what you, Sevam1, Martinez, etc have to say about the physics. The instructors on this forum are some of the best and I really want to see what you all make of Mr. Kuykendall's theories.

I see IT!

Thanks to iteach pic.

More later I have a full book today!

[gators78]

[quote name='Jeff Evans' post='2148691' date='Dec 29 2009, 09:18 AM'][quote name='iteachgolf ' post='2066636' date='Nov 16 2009, 12:47 AM'][quote name='e2ecoach' post='2066613' date='Nov 16 2009, 01:16 AM'][quote name='glcoach' post='2046388' date='Nov 4 2009, 06:46 PM']When I get that desperate to look like a fool to hit a golf ball...I hope someone shoots me.[/quote]

Have you been to a driving range lately?  Half the people there would need to be shot then.
[/quote]
So first natural golf and now this elbow to elbow swing.  These seems like such radical ideas, and while a great marketing idea, I'm not sure how well these would hold up in high level tournament golf.   I am not saying you are wrong and I'd love for you to go into more explanation of what exactly you are prescribing with this swing before I make any judgements.  Seems to me you would be severely limited distance wise based on these pictures.

[/quote]


[quote name='Cloran' post='2148683' date='Dec 29 2009, 09:08 AM'][quote name='Jeff Evans' post='2148657' date='Dec 29 2009, 08:46 AM']Very interesting![/quote]


Hey Jeff, Thanks for jumping in. I'd love to hear what you, Sevam1, Martinez, etc have to say about the physics. The instructors on this forum are some of the best and I really want to see what you all make of Mr. Kuykendall's theories.
[/quote]


I see IT!

Thanks to iteach pic.

More later I have a full book today!
[/quote]

e2ecoach mentioned that is not the actual swing but a version from a few years ago.  Can we see a video of the updated swing?  They don't have to go into the drills or any specifics but a video would be nice if that is an older version.

[Cloran]

I've searched alot and can't seem to find a video. I even went so far as to join his site, (Military and Vets get a free membership, so it cost me nothing).

Unfortunately I can't find a video of anyone actually hitting a golf ball using E2E.

If you can still hit the ball as far, but more accurately... I'm all for it. I just want to SEE it!

I can't disprove his theories because I have only a basic knowledge of physics and swing theory. I'm hoping for help from the Pro's on here.

[Cloran]

I just sent an email to Jack asking for a video of the E2E swing... we'll see how/if he replies.

[Blackfinn]

Jumping in late.  This e2e, or some form of it, is being taught to seniors at my course taking up golf for the first time.  Many elderly live in this community.  Until now, I had no idea that it was a formal teaching methodology.  The seniors seem to like it because they can hit the ball without falling over - seriously.  This one particular elderly lady, who must be in her 80s, is hitting the ball consistently, but of course, without much distance.  But she is out there playing (you just don't want to be in the group behind her).  If this method allows anyone to enjoy or to improve their game of golf, then more power to 'em.

[mystic]

I also want to see some video.  This is the only image I have.



@ 1:26 and 1:30

[Cloran]

Blackfinn, on Dec 29 2009, 01:27 PM, said:

Jumping in late. This e2e, or some form of it, is being taught to seniors at my course taking up golf for the first time. Many elderly live in this community. Until now, I had no idea that it was a formal teaching methodology. The seniors seem to like it because they can hit the ball without falling over - seriously. This one particular elderly lady, who must be in her 80s, is hitting the ball consistently, but of course, without much distance. But she is out there playing (you just don't want to be in the group behind her). If this method allows anyone to enjoy or to improve their game of golf, then more power to 'em.

I'm thinking that's due to her lack of club head speed (from age, gender, etc) more than the swing style. Supposedly you can generate the same clubhead speed from this type of elbow2elbow swing as you can from a "traditional" rotary swing. The jury is still out as many of the Pro's have yet to weigh in.

I'm anxiously awaiting their jumping in, too.

[Cloran]

mystic, on Dec 29 2009, 01:41 PM, said:

I also want to see some video. This is the only image I have.



@ 1:26 and 1:30

Lol! Good catch... that might be it!!!

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