[JamesTimothy]

Just stumbled across theses irons:

http://www.progolfja...m/28008_001418/

Can anyone tell me anything about them? What do they mean when they say handmade?

[claytonstoker21]

handmade? i mean sure there is prolly some handwork that goes into these, but prolly no more than miura or epon. there really isnt anything that could be handmade about them.

[varsityhacker]

There are much better sets then these for the price IMOP. Hand ground yes handmade no.

[spoggo]

i may be able to help you here .., (im a 6 handicaper) i have 2 sets of these ,4-pw. and a set of wedges 52* 58* one for japan , one for home , im lucky enough to have sets of yururi flat back, miura cb3001, miura cb1006 and zone sprout prototypes in my collection . personally, i think the Sakamotos are very good clubs. however they were quite disconcerting to look at at first sight they are VERY offset. i had no idea how much till they turned up in the box, and to be honest i was very dissapointed when i saw them. i was used to playing the yururi s which have absolutely no offest, and in comparison these looked like tiny buckets or spades, however.., my first hit with them and all my worries ended immediatly. they frame the ball very well. they have a marvellous sweet spot and miss hits dont send shivers thru my elbow to the same extent as others in the past have. i can work the ball both ways with confidence ,punch out of rough , and dont seem to loose too much distance or too much control, comparibly . these irons dont tend to turn over as much as the yururis but more so than the zone sprouts, and miuras. and this is whythey are no 1 with me now. playability wise these are my best/favourite irons. the ball sits on the green well and spin isnt super aggressive but its certiainly there. i can easily punch low shots into the wind , hit high draws over trees with more confidence than my other irons . feel wise they dont seem to be as soft as the yururis or zone sprouts but i think thats bec i have kbs shafts in them and that i think they are quite stiff . the distances are very good. i hit 1/2- one club less than the yururis . but the same as the miuras . i was actualy going to buy the miura 5003 blades when i discoverd the sakamotos now im not sure if ill need to.
i spoke to mr sakamoto yesterday , i asked him many questions about his co and his style and hes not very chatty. but heres what i got .., the irons are handmade and by that ithink he said he bashes the steel himself.( is that forging?) in hyogo, they take 4 weeks to make , they are order only and pretty much only form the shop u saw, hes been making irons for 2-3 yrs and wedges for 5 yrs but runnng his business for 30-40. yrs. no pros use them but "a top amateur" does .he wont make them for individuals hes a very small operation and want to stay that way. doesnt want to take any risks, he adverties in a selceted magazine and on the net thru that shop. i love his irons and can thoroughly reccomend them , just have to get over the MASSIVE offset they have. it doenst affect the club just ur eyes ! ill post some piccys next week .

[JamesTimothy]

Thanks for the info, very informative...i would be interested to see the pictures in regards to the offset. Id also be interested to know what process he uses to make the clubs...i think sometimes people are a bit quick to discredit something that doesnt have a name that claims to be as good as top clubs....ive come across this inthe gun trade, the company im involved in regualarly is discredited as not being handmade, as good as the top names, this is until people see the workshop, processes we use and realise it is in fact better.....i dont know enough about these clubs to know the quality, process of making them, its a shame there isnt even a little bit if info on them, bit of info on the internet could well do his company the world of good.

I wasnt massively interested in buying these irons, it was more the handmade aspect, and as i havent heard of them before....because of the trade im in, whenever i hear something is handmade it always causes great interest to me, and usually, if true, a lot of respect.

spoggo, on Nov 6 2009, 08:21 AM, said:

i may be able to help you here .., (im a 6 handicaper) i have 2 sets of these ,4-pw. and a set of wedges 52* 58* one for japan , one for home , im lucky enough to have sets of yururi flat back, miura cb3001, miura cb1006 and zone sprout prototypes in my collection . personally, i think the Sakamotos are very good clubs. however they were quite disconcerting to look at at first sight they are VERY offset. i had no idea how much till they turned up in the box, and to be honest i was very dissapointed when i saw them. i was used to playing the yururi s which have absolutely no offest, and in comparison these looked like tiny buckets or spades, however.., my first hit with them and all my worries ended immediatly. they frame the ball very well. they have a marvellous sweet spot and miss hits dont send shivers thru my elbow to the same extent as others in the past have. i can work the ball both ways with confidence ,punch out of rough , and dont seem to loose too much distance or too much control, comparibly . these irons dont tend to turn over as much as the yururis but more so than the zone sprouts, and miuras. and this is whythey are no 1 with me now. playability wise these are my best/favourite irons. the ball sits on the green well and spin isnt super aggressive but its certiainly there. i can easily punch low shots into the wind , hit high draws over trees with more confidence than my other irons . feel wise they dont seem to be as soft as the yururis or zone sprouts but i think thats bec i have kbs shafts in them and that i think they are quite stiff . the distances are very good. i hit 1/2- one club less than the yururis . but the same as the miuras . i was actualy going to buy the miura 5003 blades when i discoverd the sakamotos now im not sure if ill need to.
i spoke to mr sakamoto yesterday , i asked him many questions about his co and his style and hes not very chatty. but heres what i got .., the irons are handmade and by that ithink he said he bashes the steel himself.( is that forging?) in hyogo, they take 4 weeks to make , they are order only and pretty much only form the shop u saw, hes been making irons for 2-3 yrs and wedges for 5 yrs but runnng his business for 30-40. yrs. no pros use them but "a top amateur" does .he wont make them for individuals hes a very small operation and want to stay that way. doesnt want to take any risks, he adverties in a selceted magazine and on the net thru that shop. i love his irons and can thoroughly reccomend them , just have to get over the MASSIVE offset they have. it doenst affect the club just ur eyes ! ill post some piccys next week .

[varsityhacker]

JamesTimothy, on Nov 6 2009, 05:05 AM, said:

Thanks for the info, very informative...i would be interested to see the pictures in regards to the offset. Id also be interested to know what process he uses to make the clubs...i think sometimes people are a bit quick to discredit something that doesnt have a name that claims to be as good as top clubs....ive come across this inthe gun trade, the company im involved in regualarly is discredited as not being handmade, as good as the top names, this is until people see the workshop, processes we use and realise it is in fact better.....i dont know enough about these clubs to know the quality, process of making them, its a shame there isnt even a little bit if info on them, bit of info on the internet could well do his company the world of good.

I wasnt massively interested in buying these irons, it was more the handmade aspect, and as i havent heard of them before....because of the trade im in, whenever i hear something is handmade it always causes great interest to me, and usually, if true, a lot of respect.

spoggo, on Nov 6 2009, 08:21 AM, said:

i may be able to help you here .., (im a 6 handicaper) i have 2 sets of these ,4-pw. and a set of wedges 52* 58* one for japan , one for home , im lucky enough to have sets of yururi flat back, miura cb3001, miura cb1006 and zone sprout prototypes in my collection . personally, i think the Sakamotos are very good clubs. however they were quite disconcerting to look at at first sight they are VERY offset. i had no idea how much till they turned up in the box, and to be honest i was very dissapointed when i saw them. i was used to playing the yururi s which have absolutely no offest, and in comparison these looked like tiny buckets or spades, however.., my first hit with them and all my worries ended immediatly. they frame the ball very well. they have a marvellous sweet spot and miss hits dont send shivers thru my elbow to the same extent as others in the past have. i can work the ball both ways with confidence ,punch out of rough , and dont seem to loose too much distance or too much control, comparibly . these irons dont tend to turn over as much as the yururis but more so than the zone sprouts, and miuras. and this is whythey are no 1 with me now. playability wise these are my best/favourite irons. the ball sits on the green well and spin isnt super aggressive but its certiainly there. i can easily punch low shots into the wind , hit high draws over trees with more confidence than my other irons . feel wise they dont seem to be as soft as the yururis or zone sprouts but i think thats bec i have kbs shafts in them and that i think they are quite stiff . the distances are very good. i hit 1/2- one club less than the yururis . but the same as the miuras . i was actualy going to buy the miura 5003 blades when i discoverd the sakamotos now im not sure if ill need to.
i spoke to mr sakamoto yesterday , i asked him many questions about his co and his style and hes not very chatty. but heres what i got .., the irons are handmade and by that ithink he said he bashes the steel himself.( is that forging?) in hyogo, they take 4 weeks to make , they are order only and pretty much only form the shop u saw, hes been making irons for 2-3 yrs and wedges for 5 yrs but runnng his business for 30-40. yrs. no pros use them but "a top amateur" does .he wont make them for individuals hes a very small operation and want to stay that way. doesnt want to take any risks, he adverties in a selceted magazine and on the net thru that shop. i love his irons and can thoroughly reccomend them , just have to get over the MASSIVE offset they have. it doenst affect the club just ur eyes ! ill post some piccys next week .

How can an iron be handmade? Think about it, metal is heated poured into a mold then struck with a pneumatic press to get the basic shape and then struck more times depending on the company some 3 some up to 5 times. Then it is hand ground and polished. Unless Mr Sakamoto is striking the heads with a hammer to make the irons IMOP they are not handmade and that is just a marketing tool.

[rymail00]

I would like to see some pics of the offset too, if possible?

[JamesTimothy]

varsityhacker, on Nov 6 2009, 01:17 PM, said:

JamesTimothy, on Nov 6 2009, 05:05 AM, said:

Thanks for the info, very informative...i would be interested to see the pictures in regards to the offset. Id also be interested to know what process he uses to make the clubs...i think sometimes people are a bit quick to discredit something that doesnt have a name that claims to be as good as top clubs....ive come across this inthe gun trade, the company im involved in regualarly is discredited as not being handmade, as good as the top names, this is until people see the workshop, processes we use and realise it is in fact better.....i dont know enough about these clubs to know the quality, process of making them, its a shame there isnt even a little bit if info on them, bit of info on the internet could well do his company the world of good.

I wasnt massively interested in buying these irons, it was more the handmade aspect, and as i havent heard of them before....because of the trade im in, whenever i hear something is handmade it always causes great interest to me, and usually, if true, a lot of respect.

spoggo, on Nov 6 2009, 08:21 AM, said:

i may be able to help you here .., (im a 6 handicaper) i have 2 sets of these ,4-pw. and a set of wedges 52* 58* one for japan , one for home , im lucky enough to have sets of yururi flat back, miura cb3001, miura cb1006 and zone sprout prototypes in my collection . personally, i think the Sakamotos are very good clubs. however they were quite disconcerting to look at at first sight they are VERY offset. i had no idea how much till they turned up in the box, and to be honest i was very dissapointed when i saw them. i was used to playing the yururi s which have absolutely no offest, and in comparison these looked like tiny buckets or spades, however.., my first hit with them and all my worries ended immediatly. they frame the ball very well. they have a marvellous sweet spot and miss hits dont send shivers thru my elbow to the same extent as others in the past have. i can work the ball both ways with confidence ,punch out of rough , and dont seem to loose too much distance or too much control, comparibly . these irons dont tend to turn over as much as the yururis but more so than the zone sprouts, and miuras. and this is whythey are no 1 with me now. playability wise these are my best/favourite irons. the ball sits on the green well and spin isnt super aggressive but its certiainly there. i can easily punch low shots into the wind , hit high draws over trees with more confidence than my other irons . feel wise they dont seem to be as soft as the yururis or zone sprouts but i think thats bec i have kbs shafts in them and that i think they are quite stiff . the distances are very good. i hit 1/2- one club less than the yururis . but the same as the miuras . i was actualy going to buy the miura 5003 blades when i discoverd the sakamotos now im not sure if ill need to.
i spoke to mr sakamoto yesterday , i asked him many questions about his co and his style and hes not very chatty. but heres what i got .., the irons are handmade and by that ithink he said he bashes the steel himself.( is that forging?) in hyogo, they take 4 weeks to make , they are order only and pretty much only form the shop u saw, hes been making irons for 2-3 yrs and wedges for 5 yrs but runnng his business for 30-40. yrs. no pros use them but "a top amateur" does .he wont make them for individuals hes a very small operation and want to stay that way. doesnt want to take any risks, he adverties in a selceted magazine and on the net thru that shop. i love his irons and can thoroughly reccomend them , just have to get over the MASSIVE offset they have. it doenst affect the club just ur eyes ! ill post some piccys next week .

How can an iron be handmade? Think about it, metal is heated poured into a mold then struck with a pneumatic press to get the basic shape and then struck more times depending on the company some 3 some up to 5 times. Then it is hand ground and polished. Unless Mr Sakamoto is striking the heads with a hammer to make the irons IMOP they are not handmade and that is just a marketing tool.

I thought this initially too...i dont know about the Sakamoto irons....but having spoken to the actioner at my fathers company (albeit he does make guns rather than golf clubs), he seems to think it would be reasonable to think that you could make a set of irons in 4 weeks completely by hand....now whether this happens with these Sakamoto irons i do not know....one thing i would say, 4 weeks of labour at 40 hours a week thats 160 hours of labour, say it takes half a day for 4 weeks to make hand mades, thats 80 hours of labour....clubs sell at $1500, that $75 a hour....not a lot of profit margin in that really. It is possible if he is topping this profit margin up with other non handmade stuff in order to do the handmades, but this is something i would definitely have to see to believe. (All this being said, again, the guns my father makes work out about £50/$90 an hour when you take account of labour...it would be nice to think Mr Sakamoto does hand made these irons, though unless i saw proof of it, i agree with you varsity hacker, more likely very rough forgings made and then hand shaped) I still like the idea of an old japanese guy in a workshop handmaking irons though, and if this is the case, id def consider them in the future.

[Pepperturbo]

JamesTimothy, on Nov 4 2009, 03:04 AM, said:

Just stumbled across theses irons:

http://www.progolfja...m/28008_001418/

Can anyone tell me anything about them? What do they mean when they say handmade?

For 1500. he's not taking 9 blocks of forged steel and hand carving each head like a glass blower makes decanters from a molten blob of glass. He's doing what Scratch and others do, have heads partially shaped through automation then he does the final shaping and finishing, or something similar.

I don't recall ever hearing about Sakamota. From the pics they look to have incredible finishes.

[spoggo]

Gentlemen , a cpl of shots of mr sakamotos handicraft..,
"handmade" here unfortunatly, doesnt equal a half naked ,sweaty old man with muscles of iron , and an anvil, hammering away in a tin shed. in 100* heat im afraid
(kinda like that image tho, lots of hard yakka)
I think it is meant to mean , hand milled, and hand finished, and, made to any spec one desires.
fully customised (apart form the off set .) its difficlut to explain but it would seem handmade in this case..., could be construed to mean a little more than what wed like it to mean. it s certainly NOT put on the club to mean somethnig its not, the outcome and the quality of clubs is still the same , excelent. and that word "handmade" looks pretty darn good printed on the back , i own them and i have no problems with it at all. i can assure you. and they still hit the ball very very nicely indeed. . a few pics to view attached[attachm
ent=492629:IMG_2608.JPG]

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[JamesTimothy]

I see what you mean about the offset, it seems more like the offset you might see on a forged cavity back, rather than a set of premium blades....i like the look of them...once im rich and can buy whatever clubs i desire i may well order a set. In my head im going to hold on to the image of a Japanese guy blacksmithing as well as clubmaking, i like the picture and im gonna hold onto it <- Mr Sakamoto