[MtlJeff]

http://blogs.golf.co...ut-its-not.html

A lot of people like Brandel Chamblee....i do too, and think he's an excellent and knowledgeable announcer. Check out some of the comments he makes about Tiger in the latter part of this interview. Whether you agree or disagree i think he makes a lot of interesting comments

[Sawgrass]

I like Chamblee as well. But every time I read or hear how somebody thinks they know more about how to improve Tiger's swing than Tiger does, I come away from it thinking that it's much more likely that Tiger knows something they don't.

I also don't believe that Tiger's failure to win a major this year was anything more than random. But hey, what do I know?

[ktbfsu]

that's a really cool interview. thanks for posting it. i just posted an excerpt of it in the swing forum and asked for some expert commentary on bc's take on tiger's current swing.

i like chamblee. i think he's passionate and generally well reasoned. whether you agree or disagree with him, his insight seems more grounded in logic than say, johnny miller's (who i also like - but i know he has many detractors here). one thing i don't agree with, however, is the interviewer's claim that chamblee is laconic. heck, he's anything but......verbose is a more apt description. and aside from his verbosity, his vocabulary seems a little forced at times.....almost like he can't wait to use some multisyllabic word he's just learned. that's my only real knock on him.

[skinkman]

man, it's gotta be so annoying for someone like Tiger to put up with losers like Chamblee. Achieve little, be giving a mic and suddenly he knows it all.

[pjccjp]

Like it or not - the facts support his opinion. It is interesting to speculate what his record might look like had he never left Butch.

[jwfgolfpro]

skinkman, on Oct 28 2009, 09:04 AM, said:

man, it's gotta be so annoying for someone like Tiger to put up with losers like Chamblee. Achieve little, be giving a mic and suddenly he knows it all.

Over $4 million in lifetime earnings, a PGA Tour victory and years of watching PGA Tour players swing.............I wouldn't call that achieving little???

JMHO

JWF

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

jwfgolfpro, on Oct 28 2009, 07:22 AM, said:

skinkman, on Oct 28 2009, 09:04 AM, said:

man, it's gotta be so annoying for someone like Tiger to put up with losers like Chamblee. Achieve little, be giving a mic and suddenly he knows it all.

Over $4 million in lifetime earnings, a PGA Tour victory and years of watching PGA Tour players swing.............I wouldn't call that achieving little???

JMHO

JWF

You have to excuse Skink. If El Tigre ever came to a sudden stop, the Skinkman would experience the earth's worst brown-out.

A fan of Woods' should look at it like this: Even with his sub-standard driving of the golf ball, he is still #1 in the world, and by a good margin. His short game and course management make up for it time and again. But, it's clear that if his putter is only lukewarm, he no longer throws a scare into people.....unless you garner your golfing perspective strictly from the media's POV.

[DavePelz4]

jwfgolfpro, on Oct 28 2009, 09:22 AM, said:

skinkman, on Oct 28 2009, 09:04 AM, said:

man, it's gotta be so annoying for someone like Tiger to put up with losers like Chamblee. Achieve little, be giving a mic and suddenly he knows it all.

Over $4 million in lifetime earnings, a PGA Tour victory and years of watching PGA Tour players swing.............I wouldn't call that achieving little???

JMHO

JWF

JW...

Agree with you and will add that most of the best swing guru's have never won a PGA Tour event. Their strength is the ability to analyze and assist. Brandel's top notch and I'd prefer to listen to him and Frank Nobilo analyze than almost any other. Not a lot of pontification...straightforward information shared without a lot of hyperbole.

[Sawgrass]

pjccjp, on Oct 28 2009, 10:18 AM, said:

Like it or not - the facts support his opinion. It is interesting to speculate what his record might look like had he never left Butch.

It certainly is interesting to wonder, but I can't get passed the possibility that Tiger has done just the right thing for himself. If Yang hadn't shown up at the PGA and Tiger thereby won that major this year, that and his six other victories would have been an incredible achievement during an injury-comeback year. Heck, his six victories by themselves is an incredible achievement.

All you have to do is look at Ernie Els's struggles after his knee injury to see the magnitude of Tiger's success, so in my speculation, Butch would have been very unlikely to have improved things.

I can't wait to see what happens next year.

[skinkman]

but his basis are wrong. Tiger actually uses more of his driver than years past.
He's always had a wide extension going back. Under Butch or not. It's not changed under Haney and his position at the top is perfect. Kostis is a better swing guru than Chamblee. He was a former critic. Even he's been saying Tiger's hitting all the correct moves in his swing. He is posting on his left leg..

Is there anyone on tour who can win without high performance putting? of course anyone is mediocre if putts are being missed from 10 feet routinely for birdies. I can't even fathom that argument, that he is mediocre if he doesn't make putts. Putting is the ultimate.

Chamblee won 4M and won once..yes..that makes him a rich guy..not a swing guru. I am glad Hank calls him up..I hope he uses unkind words..LOL...I will get suspended if I did..but what a trollop Chamblee is. He suffers from the megalomaniac disease that hits so many on the golf channel. He knows very little about the swing compared to Haney...so I will have to say, he is saying what he sees...which is different from what Tiger feels or Haney is formulating. I bet he thinks Furyk has the club in a great position at the top..because the ball goes straight. What a...well..leave it at that..

[tftimm]

My favorite quote has to do with the fact that he is the only player to lose distance since 2000. I had never thought of that. With all the technology, etc., he's lost distance and during the same time, his percentage of majors has gone down.

I'm no swing guru, nor would I want to criticize the best player ever (once he breaks Jack's record).

What I do see is too much focus on "working" the ball rather than hitting it like he did when he won the majors. I agree, he is much less accurate with the driver than he was in 2000. Sometimes, when I see him hitting the hold off fade, high draw, etc., he looks like he is strearing the ball. I would rather he just get up and let it fly and know he won't be far off the mark. Back in 2000 with Butch, he hit the ball.

I like to listen to Chamblee. He may not have the record of other PGA tour pros, but he has a good personality and understanding of the game for TV, and that's what makes a good announcer. He seems sincere in his thoughts and criticisms and I like to hear what he has to say.

By the way, I look forward to the second part. Thanks for the link!

[DavePelz4]

Skink...

You "inspired" me to do some research. From PGAtour.com...the numbers in 2000 vs 2009 are as follows:

2000

Driving Distance 298.0
Driving Accuracy Percentage 71.2%
Greens in Regulation Pct. 75.2%
Scoring Average 67.79
Total Driving 56

2009

Driving Distance 298.4
Driving Accuracy Percentage 64.29%
Greens in Regulation Percentage 68.46%
Scoring Average 68.05
Total Driving 104

This doesn't speak to his swing but the results from the swing. Regardless of whether or not he's hitting more drivers or less, 3 woods or irons, the numbers stand. Brandel mentioned that people have caught up to Tiger in many categories which is correct.

However, the numbers do not speak to his sheer desire to win. You can't categorize that other than to look at wins and the money list. Brandel also commented on Tiger being better mentally and I'd agree with that.

With all that said, I'd still love to have his swing...even with the "lower" numbers and all.

[cnelson]

DavePelz4, on Oct 28 2009, 11:18 AM, said:

Skink...

You "inspired" me to do some research. From PGAtour.com...the numbers in 2000 vs 2009 are as follows:

2000

Driving Distance 298.0
Driving Accuracy Percentage 71.2%
Greens in Regulation Pct. 75.2%
Scoring Average 67.79
Total Driving 56

2009

Driving Distance 298.4
Driving Accuracy Percentage 64.29%
Greens in Regulation Percentage 68.46%
Scoring Average 68.05
Total Driving 104

This doesn't speak to his swing but the results from the swing. Regardless of whether or not he's hitting more drivers or less, 3 woods or irons, the numbers stand. Brandel mentioned that people have caught up to Tiger in many categories which is correct.

However, the numbers do not speak to his sheer desire to win. You can't categorize that other than to look at wins and the money list. Brandel also commented on Tiger being better mentally and I'd agree with that.

With all that said, I'd still love to have his swing...even with the "lower" numbers and all.

Maybe all of us and BC should take into the fact that Tiger just came off knee surgery? That is was his first full season back?


I understand that the numbers don't lie, but in 2000 Tiger didn't have knee surgery.

Lets use Ernie as an example..

2000

Ernie Els
278.4
64.87% FIR
66.08 % GIR
70.76 Scoring Average

Compared to 2006 when he first came back off knee surgery

2006

295.1
57.62% FIR
63.72% GIR
70.63 Scoring Average



Does anyone else see my point? Yes Tiger may of lost some distance but If you compare both players when they came off surgery of course their stats will be lower. Lets wait till 2010 and if Tigers number continue to decline I will consider changing my mind.

[bscinstnct]

I think Chamblee comes across as a fool.

He seems to say if Tiger would just start his takeaway with his hands closer to his body, he would have won more majors.

Wow, how simple. Why doesn't Tiger just listen to Brandel? He would already have Jack's record.

Brandel.

[matpatsheehy]

How do course changes factor into this discussion? Since 2000, many of the venues that regular events are held at have changed. I think in some cases you are comparing apples to oranges. Fairways have gotten tighter, the rough has gotten thicker, the pin positions may or may not be tougher, and many of them have added ridiculous length or reduced from a par 72 to a 70 by eliminating some par 5's.

I think we all believe that Tiger's driving has declined but I also think that many of the places he was hitting the ball to and then putting it on the green are now obsolete. In 2000 I think some of the courses the bombers had the ability to overpower a course. I don't believe that is the case anymore with some of the more prestigious events.

Just my .02 cents but I think there are more variables. I think Tiger carefully determined that he wanted a more consistent swing that would keep him in the hunt even if he did not have his A game. I do recall before that if he did not have his A game he would in some cases fall way off the pace because of wild ups and downs. Now him not finishing in the Top 10 of every event he plays is a rarity.

[Asleep]

DavePelz4, on Oct 28 2009, 10:18 AM, said:

...people have caught up to Tiger in many categories which is correct...

This has been the biggest change, imo, is that "the field" has made up a lot of ground on Tiger in the long game.

2010 will be most interesting to see who & how many falls back (and it won't be Tiger) due to the groove rules change.

[skinkman]

Quote

I think Chamblee comes across as a fool.

He seems to say if Tiger would just start his takeaway with his hands closer to his body, he would have won more majors.

Wow, how simple. Why doesn't Tiger just listen to Brandel? He would already have Jack's record.

Brandel.

that's what a chump like Chamblee would say, because he has no idea what makes true champions tick. yeah..


if Tiger's driving was the problem, he won't be up there in GIR stats. Shows what Chamblee really knows...very little. He is one of the folks who mistake passion in argument for fact...he stated that it was fact that Tiger has his top of backswing position in the wrong slot...Don't stop there Chamblee...explain to us how that causes him to miss putts after he is on the green in regulation? or how that causes him to lose to Yang whiles playing from the fairway most times. Chamblee's a typical sports person who makes it to TV announcing...no true journalistic training,just opinion heads..and frankly putting on a facade of intelligence. He is not.

and stop going with the driving stats of 290 yards..that is a joke..He is consistently over 300 yards on TV..Heck he popped a few at 350-360 this year when he had to...how often was he one of the few to hit a par 5 in two? Maybe he pays less attention to distance stats...

[zmaz]

cnelson, on Oct 28 2009, 12:19 PM, said:

DavePelz4, on Oct 28 2009, 11:18 AM, said:

Skink...

You "inspired" me to do some research. From PGAtour.com...the numbers in 2000 vs 2009 are as follows:

2000

Driving Distance 298.0
Driving Accuracy Percentage 71.2%
Greens in Regulation Pct. 75.2%
Scoring Average 67.79
Total Driving 56

2009

Driving Distance 298.4
Driving Accuracy Percentage 64.29%
Greens in Regulation Percentage 68.46%
Scoring Average 68.05
Total Driving 104

This doesn't speak to his swing but the results from the swing. Regardless of whether or not he's hitting more drivers or less, 3 woods or irons, the numbers stand. Brandel mentioned that people have caught up to Tiger in many categories which is correct.

However, the numbers do not speak to his sheer desire to win. You can't categorize that other than to look at wins and the money list. Brandel also commented on Tiger being better mentally and I'd agree with that.

With all that said, I'd still love to have his swing...even with the "lower" numbers and all.

Maybe all of us and BC should take into the fact that Tiger just came off knee surgery? That is was his first full season back?


I understand that the numbers don't lie, but in 2000 Tiger didn't have knee surgery.

Lets use Ernie as an example..

2000

Ernie Els
278.4
64.87% FIR
66.08 % GIR
70.76 Scoring Average

Compared to 2006 when he first came back off knee surgery

2006

295.1
57.62% FIR
63.72% GIR
70.63 Scoring Average



Does anyone else see my point? Yes Tiger may of lost some distance but If you compare both players when they came off surgery of course their stats will be lower. Lets wait till 2010 and if Tigers number continue to decline I will consider changing my mind.

What is your point, now? Els is 17 yards longer, but more wild. His GIR difference is minimal, and his scoring average is lower. So again, what were you saying?

[Redman]

Sawgrass, on Oct 27 2009, 11:21 PM, said:

I like Chamblee as well. But every time I read or hear how somebody thinks they know more about how to improve Tiger's swing than Tiger does, I come away from it thinking that it's much more likely that Tiger knows something they don't.

I also don't believe that Tiger's failure to win a major this year was anything more than random. But hey, what do I know?

I kind of agree with you in that so many people think that they know how Tiger can be better, but I have to say that the stat about him being the ONLY person shorter in distance now than in 2000 is huge. This game is predicated on distance now. You have to be able to bomb it out there now to win majors more than ever. He is hitting it shorter and less accurate with the driver - that is a fact.

[Redman]

skinkman, on Oct 28 2009, 01:05 PM, said:

Quote

I think Chamblee comes across as a fool.

He seems to say if Tiger would just start his takeaway with his hands closer to his body, he would have won more majors.

Wow, how simple. Why doesn't Tiger just listen to Brandel? He would already have Jack's record.

Brandel.

that's what a chump like Chamblee would say, because he has no idea what makes true champions tick. yeah..


if Tiger's driving was the problem, he won't be up there in GIR stats. Shows what Chamblee really knows...very little. He is one of the folks who mistake passion in argument for fact...he stated that it was fact that Tiger has his top of backswing position in the wrong slot...Don't stop there Chamblee...explain to us how that causes him to miss putts after he is on the green in regulation? or how that causes him to lose to Yang whiles playing from the fairway most times. Chamblee's a typical sports person who makes it to TV announcing...no true journalistic training,just opinion heads..and frankly putting on a facade of intelligence. He is not.

and stop going with the driving stats of 290 yards..that is a joke..He is consistently over 300 yards on TV..Heck he popped a few at 350-360 this year when he had to...how often was he one of the few to hit a par 5 in two? Maybe he pays less attention to distance stats...

Damn man.... I am as big a Tiger fan as the next guy, but just because someone criticizes his swing doesn't mean you have defend him like a brother. The stats prove that Tiger's driving has been an issue and I don't really see how that can be argued even though you are really trying. How can you believe that Tiger is a good driver of the golf ball? What Chamblee is saying about his swing is dead-on as well (sometimes). When Tiger gets that huge block going on it is because he has the club layed off at the top the only place you could hit it is way right or way left if he flips it coming through. His GIR stats are still good because he is the greatest ever at recovering, very much like Seve was. You are acting like Tiger is the greatest driver of the ball of all time. In 2000 - 2001 he just might have been, but he is much too inconsistent now for that to be the case.

[floyd]

Wow! Pretty powerful words, I would have to agree with some comments.

[ragin cajun]

JMO but Brandel Chamblee > than Jonny Miller in every way.

[putt4_66]

skinkman, on Oct 28 2009, 09:04 AM, said:

man, it's gotta be so annoying for someone like Tiger to put up with losers like Chamblee. Achieve little, be giving a mic and suddenly he knows it all.

Where do you think all the great teachers like Hank Haney have come from? They couldn't hack it as a touring pro, but had the brains to teach what they couldn't do. Brandel's no different.

[bscinstnct]

ragin cajun, on Oct 28 2009, 06:03 PM, said:

JMO but Brandel Chamblee > than Jonny Miller in every way.

Except at playing golf.

[bigred90gt]

Redman, on Oct 28 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

I kind of agree with you in that so many people think that they know how Tiger can be better, but I have to say that the stat about him being the ONLY person shorter in distance now than in 2000 is huge. This game is predicated on distance now. You have to be able to bomb it out there now to win majors more than ever. He is hitting it shorter and less accurate with the driver - that is a fact.

According to the stats posted, his driving distance has actually increased by 0.4 yards, so part of that is NOT a fact. Less accurate, absolutely. shorter, not so much.

[bscinstnct]

Redman, on Oct 28 2009, 03:54 PM, said:

Sawgrass, on Oct 27 2009, 11:21 PM, said:

I like Chamblee as well. But every time I read or hear how somebody thinks they know more about how to improve Tiger's swing than Tiger does, I come away from it thinking that it's much more likely that Tiger knows something they don't.

I also don't believe that Tiger's failure to win a major this year was anything more than random. But hey, what do I know?

I kind of agree with you in that so many people think that they know how Tiger can be better, but I have to say that the stat about him being the ONLY person shorter in distance now than in 2000 is huge. This game is predicated on distance now. You have to be able to bomb it out there now to win majors more than ever. He is hitting it shorter and less accurate with the driver - that is a fact.

How about this.

And some of you may laugh.

Until you realize that Tiger Woods has come closer to playing perfect golf than anyone in history.

What if Tiger masters his driver? Who knows, maybe he will hire Brandel as his swing coach.

What if he figures out how to knock it 310 this way and that and control his drives. According to Brandel, all he needs
to do is keep his hands a little closer to his body but judging Brandel's swing on the Momentus Power Hitter commercial, I don't think that Brandel understands what it is like to swing the club 120mph.

So Tiger figures it out.

Tiger masters the driver. I know, I know, he can't do it...he is finished...he is going down...Bwahahhahahah.

Does he then dominate?

Sure he does.

Will he master the driver?

With a good knee, my money is on Tiger.

Okay, Brandel?

[Redman]

bigred90gt, on Oct 28 2009, 07:27 PM, said:

Redman, on Oct 28 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

I kind of agree with you in that so many people think that they know how Tiger can be better, but I have to say that the stat about him being the ONLY person shorter in distance now than in 2000 is huge. This game is predicated on distance now. You have to be able to bomb it out there now to win majors more than ever. He is hitting it shorter and less accurate with the driver - that is a fact.

According to the stats posted, his driving distance has actually increased by 0.4 yards, so part of that is NOT a fact. Less accurate, absolutely. shorter, not so much.

Where did you see these stats at?

[Redman]

EatSleepBreatheGolf, on Oct 28 2009, 06:17 PM, said:

skinkman, on Oct 28 2009, 09:04 AM, said:

man, it's gotta be so annoying for someone like Tiger to put up with losers like Chamblee. Achieve little, be giving a mic and suddenly he knows it all.

Where do you think all the great teachers like Hank Haney have come from? They couldn't hack it as a touring pro, but had the brains to teach what they couldn't do. Brandel's no different.

I believe the saying goes, "those who can't do, teach." Obviously this is not true in all cases but certainly in some/most.

[cnelson]

zmaz, on Oct 28 2009, 01:16 PM, said:

cnelson, on Oct 28 2009, 12:19 PM, said:

DavePelz4, on Oct 28 2009, 11:18 AM, said:

Skink...

You "inspired" me to do some research. From PGAtour.com...the numbers in 2000 vs 2009 are as follows:

2000

Driving Distance 298.0
Driving Accuracy Percentage 71.2%
Greens in Regulation Pct. 75.2%
Scoring Average 67.79
Total Driving 56

2009

Driving Distance 298.4
Driving Accuracy Percentage 64.29%
Greens in Regulation Percentage 68.46%
Scoring Average 68.05
Total Driving 104

This doesn't speak to his swing but the results from the swing. Regardless of whether or not he's hitting more drivers or less, 3 woods or irons, the numbers stand. Brandel mentioned that people have caught up to Tiger in many categories which is correct.

However, the numbers do not speak to his sheer desire to win. You can't categorize that other than to look at wins and the money list. Brandel also commented on Tiger being better mentally and I'd agree with that.

With all that said, I'd still love to have his swing...even with the "lower" numbers and all.

Maybe all of us and BC should take into the fact that Tiger just came off knee surgery? That is was his first full season back?


I understand that the numbers don't lie, but in 2000 Tiger didn't have knee surgery.

Lets use Ernie as an example..

2000

Ernie Els
278.4
64.87% FIR
66.08 % GIR
70.76 Scoring Average

Compared to 2006 when he first came back off knee surgery

2006

295.1
57.62% FIR
63.72% GIR
70.63 Scoring Average



Does anyone else see my point? Yes Tiger may of lost some distance but If you compare both players when they came off surgery of course their stats will be lower. Lets wait till 2010 and if Tigers number continue to decline I will consider changing my mind.

What is your point, now? Els is 17 yards longer, but more wild. His GIR difference is minimal, and his scoring average is lower. So again, what were you saying?

My point was that Els after knee surgery didn't have his strongest year ever.. So perhaps we should wait to see the stats for Tiger in 2010 to make a comparison to 2000 when he was healthy. Thats all.

[italian71]

Jack was weak with his wedges, Norman is weak between the ears, and Tiger is weak with the driver. They were all number one in the world. BTW - Who cares what Brandel says??? Every time he is on I mute the sound. The guy WON'T STOP TALKING. I would hate to be announcing with him. You get to speak 2 words an hour - that's it. I especially like watching when Peter Oosterhuis and Frank Nobilo is on with Brandel - they both look like they want to beat Brandel in the head with a 2 iron every time he opens his mouth.

[Redman]

italian71, on Oct 29 2009, 01:00 PM, said:

Jack was weak with his wedges, Norman is weak between the ears, and Tiger is weak with the driver. They were all number one in the world. BTW - Who cares what Brandel says??? Every time he is on I mute the sound. The guy WON'T STOP TALKING. I would hate to be announcing with him. You get to speak 2 words an hour - that's it. I especially like watching when Peter Oosterhuis and Frank Nobilo is on with Brandel - they both look like they want to beat Brandel in the head with a 2 iron every time he opens his mouth.

I actually think Nobilo is the one that can't stop talking. He goes on and on and on. Don't get me wrong I like Nobilo too. I think together they make one of the best commentating teams out there. And of course they don't stop talking....that is what they get paid to do. What do you want.......them to just sit there in complete silence staring at the camera?

[drstroud]

Sawgrass, on Oct 27 2009, 09:21 PM, said:

I like Chamblee as well. But every time I read or hear how somebody thinks they know more about how to improve Tiger's swing than Tiger does, I come away from it thinking that it's much more likely that Tiger knows something they don't.

I also don't believe that Tiger's failure to win a major this year was anything more than random. But hey, what do I know?

Then why does Tiger have a swing coach? What are the swing coaches playing credentials?

[bigred90gt]

Redman, on Oct 28 2009, 11:43 PM, said:

Where did you see these stats at?

In post #12 of this thread.

DavePelz4, on Oct 28 2009, 10:18 AM, said:

Skink...

You "inspired" me to do some research. From PGAtour.com...the numbers in 2000 vs 2009 are as follows:

2000

Driving Distance 298.0
Driving Accuracy Percentage 71.2%
Greens in Regulation Pct. 75.2%
Scoring Average 67.79
Total Driving 56

2009

Driving Distance 298.4
Driving Accuracy Percentage 64.29%
Greens in Regulation Percentage 68.46%
Scoring Average 68.05
Total Driving 104

This doesn't speak to his swing but the results from the swing. Regardless of whether or not he's hitting more drivers or less, 3 woods or irons, the numbers stand. Brandel mentioned that people have caught up to Tiger in many categories which is correct.

However, the numbers do not speak to his sheer desire to win. You can't categorize that other than to look at wins and the money list. Brandel also commented on Tiger being better mentally and I'd agree with that.

With all that said, I'd still love to have his swing...even with the "lower" numbers and all.

[HeadonaStick]

Redman, on Oct 29 2009, 12:44 AM, said:

EatSleepBreatheGolf, on Oct 28 2009, 06:17 PM, said:

skinkman, on Oct 28 2009, 09:04 AM, said:

man, it's gotta be so annoying for someone like Tiger to put up with losers like Chamblee. Achieve little, be giving a mic and suddenly he knows it all.

Where do you think all the great teachers like Hank Haney have come from? They couldn't hack it as a touring pro, but had the brains to teach what they couldn't do. Brandel's no different.

I believe the saying goes, "those who can't do, teach." Obviously this is not true in all cases but certainly in some/most.

As a teacher, that's a little insulting.

[Sawgrass]

drstroud, on Oct 29 2009, 01:49 PM, said:

Sawgrass, on Oct 27 2009, 09:21 PM, said:

I like Chamblee as well. But every time I read or hear how somebody thinks they know more about how to improve Tiger's swing than Tiger does, I come away from it thinking that it's much more likely that Tiger knows something they don't.

I also don't believe that Tiger's failure to win a major this year was anything more than random. But hey, what do I know?

Then why does Tiger have a swing coach? What are the swing coaches playing credentials?

First, I don't believe that Brandel's credentials include "world class swing coach". Second, I think TW, like Jack, is very astute when it comes to swing analysis himself. Third, I don't believe for a minute that with all of Tiger's dedication and resources he has failed to become aware of his positions, particularly a distinction as significant as Brandel described.

I am not taking the position that swing coaches are irrelevant. I am only saying that I am suspicious about the value and accuracy of non-personally-involved people's perceptions of Tiger's swing.

Lastly, while I don't presume to know precisely why Tiger has a swing coach, one reason is likely to be that he values someone knowledgeable watching and commenting on his attempts to achieve various minor goals. Whether Haney is advocating significant changes may or may not be the case.

The bottom line for me is that I'm more interested in watching and perhaps learning from what Woods does than what TV commentators have to say about what he should do. I'm interested in both, but skeptical about the TV personalities.

[cavemeister]

When someone makes their living talking about golf--well, it makes sense that they will find something to talk about...
When your job is based on finding problems and there are none, what do you do?
Lawyers make business where there is none.
Merchants sell merchandize to people who don't need it.
And commentators have to commentate when there is nothing to comment on.

[mosesgolf]

You'd think with all the advances in equipment and the golf ball since 2000, Tiger would be longer and straighter.

[pjrgolf]

ok, a little off topic, why would Tiger go to Hank Haney? the only person Hank taught prior to Tiger was???? yup, you guessed it, Tigers boy, Mark O'meara.

I ask again, if Tiger is so bad at driving it, why can't the great Hank Haney fix him?

maybe the parallel plane swing pattern is not so good for swinging the driver because it produces such an open clubface @ impact. Someone please call Hank and Brandel and tell them to let Tigers clubface close more in his downswing so he can hit the driver straighter and as HARD and Far as he wants. if you watch Tiger rehearse his downswing he is constantly trying to get the club in front of him and let the the clubface close to combat Hanks PP pattern.

Or was that what you were trying to say Brandel?

[Ronzo]

Redman, on Oct 29 2009, 12:49 PM, said:

What do you want.......them to just sit there in complete silence staring at the camera?

No. That would be Renton Laidlaw.

zzzZZZ... (crickets chirping as I sleep through my Saturday morning tee time...)

[skinkman]

I think you guys are looking at a more smarter golfer in Tiger..Who is managing his game rather well as well as his misses.
If you watched the last hole of the HSBC tourney yesterday, Quiros..almighty hitter himself..didn't think he could stop a 4 iron on the par5 538 yard 18th. Tiger drove it long enough to also hit a 4 iron, high enough to hold the green.
Tiger's not really invested in equipment for length like a Mickelson or many others. He deliberately is not optimised off the driver for distance. If so, he would go lighter in shaft and a firmer ball and mess with his launch angles at the detriment of his iron play and short game. Folks..distance is truly overrated when a player is long enough, hits enough fairways...what's the use in a 400 yard drive?Ignore the average driving stats...it is not a true reflection of how far these guys thump it.