[MikeC]

Yeah, I don't think I would put money on it either. But I think it would be interesting to find out what would happen.

[Dizzub]

Yes its possible, you would just have to play the right hole well.

[steveh1591]

it depends what kind of 13-16 player you are
say a 13 handicapper who generally goes round with 13 bogeys and 5 pars vs a 13 who has a few birdies, but chucks a couple of big numbers in there

i would say if you can make a birdie or two in a round you have a definite chance, the pro isnt going to birdie every hole, and they only have to have one bad shot to give you an opportunity to win with par, and everyone hits bad shots now and then

[Pepperturbo]

8thehardway, on Oct 24 2009, 03:03 AM, said:

The question is meaningful only if the tour pro isn't handicapped by the arrangements; ie, you would have to play a tour course (setup & yardage), have the same few days to familiarize yourself with it, there would be a sizable audience (galleries and TV) and the tour pro would know his only goal is not to lose a hole to you.

Then there's the other stuff... the press conferences, where you'll be grilled on why you foozled your opening drive (first tee jitters, lad?) or layed up instead of carrying the pond that fronts the green 260 yards out, signing autographs, playing in a pro-am the day before, fending off (or giving in) to the groupies, and the obligatory nterview with Johnny Miller after each of the four consecutive days of play.

And then there's your opponent, waiting on the first tee while your golf buddies finish high-fiving you - Mr. Patience himself... Rory Sabbatini!. He doesn't like you, he thinks your game is pathetic and every time you look at him he sneers back.

Tee up your Top-Flite but stick those statistics in your tour bag cause they don't begin to describe how far out of your comfort zone you're operating.

Interesting... You keep the "PROfessional" in his environment and take the amateur out of his, then say that's fair for the PRO. I regard ANYONE that calls themselves a professional as one that can do what he does regardless of the environment, where as a non-professional or amateur is lucky to have a worthwhile game in the best of environments.

Let me also point out there are many tour players that purposely stay away from the added conditions you reference, including out of sight from the media. To my way of thinking and using your environment that level of pro golfer isn't really a professional... he's just a darn good golfer without the element.

[8thehardway]

Pepperturbo, on Oct 25 2009, 04:07 PM, said:

8thehardway, on Oct 24 2009, 03:03 AM, said:

The question is meaningful only if the tour pro isn't handicapped by the arrangements; ie, you would have to play a tour course (setup & yardage), have the same few days to familiarize yourself with it, there would be a sizable audience (galleries and TV) and the tour pro would know his only goal is not to lose a hole to you.

Then there's the other stuff... the press conferences, where you'll be grilled on why you foozled your opening drive (first tee jitters, lad?) or layed up instead of carrying the pond that fronts the green 260 yards out, signing autographs, playing in a pro-am the day before, fending off (or giving in) to the groupies, and the obligatory nterview with Johnny Miller after each of the four consecutive days of play.

And then there's your opponent, waiting on the first tee while your golf buddies finish high-fiving you - Mr. Patience himself... Rory Sabbatini!. He doesn't like you, he thinks your game is pathetic and every time you look at him he sneers back.

Tee up your Top-Flite but stick those statistics in your tour bag cause they don't begin to describe how far out of your comfort zone you're operating.

Interesting... You keep the "PROfessional" in his environment and take the amateur out of his, then say that's fair for the PRO. I regard ANYONE that calls themselves a professional as one that can do what he does regardless of the environment, where as a non-professional or amateur is lucky to have a worthwhile game in the best of environments.

Let me also point out there are many tour players that purposely stay away from the added conditions you reference, including out of sight from the media. To my way of thinking and using your environment that level of pro golfer isn't really a professional... he's just a darn good golfer without the element.

Allow me to provide some insight...

the OP asked:

So it got me thinking that if i played a round with a TOUR PRO, (emphasis added) what would be the chances that I could beat him on one hole if I had 18 chances to do it?

Your qualification of the word professional is irrelevant. If the golfer is playing on the TOUR he's a tour pro. Saying "anyone who calls themselves a pro..." also personalizes a designation that is not your's to bestow - regardless of what anyone calls themselves, either you're playing on tour or you're not and Rory iindisputably meets the OP's qualification.

In brief, conditions can be specified that maximize or minimize the OP's chances of winning one hole against a tour pro. If Rory Sabbatini were to play at the OP's muni it's not a matter of "being fair to the pro;" it's being fair to the OP as he's being tested in the environment in which a pro operates and in which a victory is most meaningful. Previous posts took your 'pro goes to the muni' slant... mine explores an alternate option while responding to the OP's requests for 'any thoughts on the subject'.

Many pros avoid the media, the groupies and Johnny Miller but I added them both as a lighthearted reminder of some distractions a tour pro negotiates in addition to his ball striking... a kind of 'walk a mile in his shoes' propasition that gives a quick glimpse of the total pro vs a mid-handicapper.

In your rush to voice an opinion you missed the pertinent phrase TOUR PRO... the insufferable tone of your post is best saved for situations where the subject matter does not elude you.

[Pepperturbo]

I meant touring pro and addressed that in my post; which you obviously overlooked during your zealous to personalize your post...

[8thehardway]

Pepperturbo, on Oct 26 2009, 07:37 PM, said:

I meant touring pro and addressed that in my post; which you obviously overlooked during your zealous to personalize your post...

Were that truly the case, opining as to who you consider a professional would make no sense. You can't adequately explain substituting your opinion for that of the USGA when defining 'tour pro' and if that's what you're trying to do, there's no value in communicating further.

When you changed subjects with 'tour pro vs media' in the next paragraph I responded to that but don't forget your ending... "that level of pro golfer isn't really a professional."

All in all, a nonsensical 'defense' of a bifurcated post. ending with a poorly plagerized non-sequitor... perfect. I'd go further but there are other fish in other barrels that need my attention.

[ezra76]

I should be right on 13 now and I'd say what someone else said, possible but not probable. I only made one birdie today and the hole was 330yds., downhill with a speedslope,3W and pitch shot for me, they'd be even closer to the green (or on) and just as close to the hole. I'd probably get a halve there... and get destroyed on the rest, lol. Considering just the New England pros throw up 62-63 to win at the course I played... and that's tourney setup off the back tees, I'd expect a PGA pro to take it to 60 or less off the white tees no problem.

I throw up an eagle one in a blue moon and had a 5 bird round this year but that is far from the norm. Not to mention I'd be a little intimidated being outdriven by 50yds., irons rattling flags and putts from 16ft. dropping like me on an 16incher.

[TML]

ezra76, on Oct 26 2009, 07:18 PM, said:

I should be right on 13 now and I'd say what someone else said, possible but not probable. I only made one birdie today and the hole was 330yds., downhill with a speedslope,3W and pitch shot for me, they'd be even closer to the green (or on) and just as close to the hole. I'd probably get a halve there... and get destroyed on the rest, lol. Considering just the New England pros throw up 62-63 to win at the course I played... and that's tourney setup off the back tees, I'd expect a PGA pro to take it to 60 or less off the white tees no problem.

I throw up an eagle one in a blue moon and had a 5 bird round this year but that is far from the norm. Not to mention I'd be a little intimidated being outdriven by 50yds., irons rattling flags and putts from 16ft. dropping like me on an 16incher.

Haha....true, so true.

Why not start another thread, "Could a 15-21 Handicapper beat a PGA Tour Pro?"?

It could happen, yeah, there are no guarantees. Could the pro hook it and the 20-capper, hit it 230 yds straight on the fairway and shoot par? Yeah, it could happen. Sure. Any more worthless threads this week?

[Pepperturbo]

8thehardway, on Oct 26 2009, 08:06 PM, said:

Pepperturbo, on Oct 26 2009, 07:37 PM, said:

I meant touring pro and addressed that in my post; which you obviously overlooked during your zealous to personalize your post...

Were that truly the case, opining as to who you consider a professional would make no sense. You can't adequately explain substituting your opinion for that of the USGA when defining 'tour pro' and if that's what you're trying to do, there's no value in communicating further.

When you changed subjects with 'tour pro vs media' in the next paragraph I responded to that but don't forget your ending... "that level of pro golfer isn't really a professional."

All in all, a nonsensical 'defense' of a bifurcated post. ending with a poorly plagerized non-sequitor... perfect. I'd go further but there are other fish in other barrels that need my attention.

You're either bored or have some axe to grind; in which case I have no interest or need to prove. Have a good day.

[potuna]

A friend of mine is a Nationwide tour player who finished inside the top 40. I've played with him a couple of times and it would be a miracle if I beat him on any par 4 or 5. That leaves only the par 3s and here it's possible but still would be a fluke.

[MikeC]

Here's a link to what I think is a pertinent article to the subject. It talks about Tiger specifically and giving strokes, but has some similar thoughts as those posted here.

http://blogs.golf.co...-weighs-in.html

[TML]

Shoot....what does Hank know? We have some 4 handicaps on here who can handle bottom-feeding LPGA touring pros.

[freddiec]

This is a good thread. Got a lot of people thinking.. I agree with ezra and his example. I know where he's coming from. The RI Open was played at Newport National. The top players there, could probably qualify for part time Nationwide players. The course they played on is a fantastic Championship course, with very difficult greens. Some of those guys shot 4 and 5 under on the front nine. I was surprised how low these guys can go and demolish a course we consider pretty difficult.

[Goopher]

Possible - but still rather unlikely - especially on a tournament setup course

[shepard]

If you would play their tees and you were playing with them, absolutely not. Their par fours would be in the 450 range. This would make it far more difficult albeit practially impossible for you to beat them. If it was the other way around, you may have a chance (IE 375 yard hole). It's still going to take them two short to get on the green and if you get real lucky and stick your second shot close you'll probably get a birdie.

I've been to whistling straits and your dreaming if you think you can play with these guys even on the par 3's which can be almost impossible for mere mortals. As for me I am a savant, shot par on the 3's at Irish and was questionable on all the other holes. Maybe your a savant on at least one hole! etter know which it is ahead of time and choose that one.

[HouAggie]

Carolina Golfer 2, on Oct 22 2009, 02:28 PM, said:

MikeC, Sure lightening can strike anytime. I'm a 18 HC and got paired up against a +2 in a match play event a couple years ago (talk about the luck of the draw). I went 2 up after the first two holes, (gross no hc involved). he proceeded to win the next 11 holes to win 6&5. Guess I woke the sleeping dog.

But to your point about playing the hole as well as anyone could. No doubt nice birdie, but take a look at what the typical tour pro would do on that 368 yard hole. Probably bust a drive in the 300 yard range and have a 3/4 sw or lw into the green. From 70 yards most tour pros are going to put that within 3 to 5 feet, 90 percent of the time and make that putt about 99 percent.

So they probably birdie that hole 8 times out of 10 easily. You or me for instance may birdie it once every 20 rounds if we're lucky. So you just have to hope the stars align and your one time that you do, is the one or two times they don't.

So it COULD happen, but likely? Not very at all.

Math does not compute.

Either way, pretty painful way to lose!

[wwhitehead]

No.

WW

[Carolina Golfer 2]

shepard, on Oct 29 2009, 03:49 PM, said:

If you would play their tees and you were playing with them, absolutely not. Their par fours would be in the 450 range. This would make it far more difficult albeit practially impossible for you to beat them. If it was the other way around, you may have a chance (IE 375 yard hole). It's still going to take them two short to get on the green and if you get real lucky and stick your second shot close you'll probably get a birdie.

I've been to whistling straits and your dreaming if you think you can play with these guys even on the par 3's which can be almost impossible for mere mortals. As for me I am a savant, shot par on the 3's at Irish and was questionable on all the other holes. Maybe your a savant on at least one hole! etter know which it is ahead of time and choose that one.

I agree with you about Whistling Straits. I usually go up every year and play with a buddy there. The first time the caddy pointed out to me where the PGA tee was on hole 8, I about chocked. I mean it is a good 125 to 150 yards from their tee to the green or blue that I was playing. Hole 17, we usually play the tee that is 217 and the PGA tee is another 30 yards behind that.

But to your main point, I think you are right on. From their tees most 13 to 16 HC'ers would be playing as a par 5 realistically. So the chances are very very slim. I still feel on the short holes as you said 375, the pro's are going to be 50 to 60 yards out most of the time and sticking that wedge inside 5 to 10 feet. But all mid hc's are capable of putting a 130 or 140 yard shot to kick in range now and then. So that's the more plausible scenario.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

HouAggie, on Oct 29 2009, 04:40 PM, said:

Carolina Golfer 2, on Oct 22 2009, 02:28 PM, said:

MikeC, Sure lightening can strike anytime. I'm a 18 HC and got paired up against a +2 in a match play event a couple years ago (talk about the luck of the draw). I went 2 up after the first two holes, (gross no hc involved). he proceeded to win the next 11 holes to win 6&5. Guess I woke the sleeping dog.

But to your point about playing the hole as well as anyone could. No doubt nice birdie, but take a look at what the typical tour pro would do on that 368 yard hole. Probably bust a drive in the 300 yard range and have a 3/4 sw or lw into the green. From 70 yards most tour pros are going to put that within 3 to 5 feet, 90 percent of the time and make that putt about 99 percent.

So they probably birdie that hole 8 times out of 10 easily. You or me for instance may birdie it once every 20 rounds if we're lucky. So you just have to hope the stars align and your one time that you do, is the one or two times they don't.

So it COULD happen, but likely? Not very at all.

Math does not compute.

Either way, pretty painful way to lose!

LOL!!! So painful I didn't care to actually recount it, I thought it was 8 and 6 or 7 but I knew we had played at least to the 12th hole which was a hole I had played well all week and thought I could get one back at least.

I just knew he ran the table on me after I got up 2. For those scoring at home 8 and 6

[sdiver68]

I'm a 13. My guess 1 in 36

Yes, I might average a birdie per round or get REAL lucky and have 2-3 birdies in a single round...but chances are the pro will birdie at least 1/2 of those as well.

[Sickman]

It's probably like a 1 in 100 shot that the 16 beats the tour pro on any one hole.

On your course from your tees, the tour pro is making less than a bogie/18 and you're making less than a birdie/18. So you'd have to wait for the pro to bogie and hope you make par on THAT hole, or wait for your birdie and hope the pro doesn't match it. It's going to be a long wait.

On a PGA tour setup, the pro is still only making 2 or 3 bogies, maybe, but the 16 will be lucky to make 2 or 3 pars.

It's not that it isn't EVER going to happen in 18 holes, it's just not going to happen very much.

[pinhigh27]

I still don't get this, fine example of what a mid handicapper could do. Par 5, decently reachable. Pro- Driver OB, next drive perfect down the pipe, reaches the green, makes the putt for par
Am- Decent driver, maybe in the rough, next shot into the fairway, stuffs a nice wedge, rims in the putt.
4-5 Am to me. And that is assuming after hitting a perfect driver that he hits a good iron or wood shot and then makes the putt, which could happen but its not like that is a sure thing

All the pro has to do is hit it OB, which a lot of pros can do, they're accurate, but many aren't point and shoot.

[OneBowTie]

geez.....from the looks of these posts....I'd say that since most of you feel that you can't beat a pro on a single hole out of 18.....then you probably cant.... personally, I'd bet Tiger Woods I'd win one hole out of 18....and pretty much everybody else I am thinking I could win 2

[TML]

pinhigh27, on Nov 3 2009, 03:43 PM, said:

I still don't get this, fine example of what a mid handicapper could do. Par 5, decently reachable. Pro- Driver OB, next drive perfect down the pipe, reaches the green, makes the putt for par
Am- Decent driver, maybe in the rough, next shot into the fairway, stuffs a nice wedge, rims in the putt.
4-5 Am to me. And that is assuming after hitting a perfect driver that he hits a good iron or wood shot and then makes the putt, which could happen but its not like that is a sure thing

All the pro has to do is hit it OB, which a lot of pros can do, they're accurate, but many aren't point and shoot.

You obviously have yet to play with a scratch player regularly. A scratch player will almost all the time keep it in the fairway and hit GIRs all day long on a course that is setup for the recreational golfer on the weekend. Can you imagine what a pro can do, let alone a PGA tour pro? When they play from the tips with the toughest pin positions on the fastest greens you'll ever look at? Really, you have to be kidding if you think you have a chance.....even a chance to get lucky.

[farmer]

Of course a hdcp player could beat a tour player on some random hole during a round. I once saw a non-player bounce a ball off a cart path and into the hole for an ace.

[Short-Game]

MikeC, on Oct 21 2009, 10:15 PM, said:

I played a round yesterday and had what has been my typical round of late where I play well on a few holes (2 birdies), marginal on most, and then a couple of big numbers as well. On 18, a 368 yd par 4, I played the hole as well as most anyone could. Hit a great drive off the tee, hit an 8 Iron that landed 2 inches from the cup, hit the pin, and came to rest 6 feet from the hole. I then rolled the putt in for a birdie. Later that night I was thinking that it was about as good as anyone could play that hole (short of a hole out which is more reliant on luck than anything else). Sure the clubs being used would vary, but a better result than birdie is unlikely and a par wouldn't be out of the question.

So it got me thinking that if i played a round with a tour pro, what would be the chances that I could beat him on one hole if I had 18 chances to do it?

Share your thoughts...

Yrp - thats what handicaps are for

[PixlPutterman]

OneBowTie, on Nov 3 2009, 06:53 PM, said:

geez.....from the looks of these posts....I'd say that since most of you feel that you can't beat a pro on a single hole out of 18.....then you probably cant.... personally, I'd bet Tiger Woods I'd win one hole out of 18....and pretty much everybody else I am thinking I could win 2

Im not saying you couldnt, but take two scenarios, the first being tiger plays you at your home course, which turns his ridiculous +13 handicap into a more ridiculous +30. Tigers Birdies become pars and his pars are like double bogeys. You are playing a 6200 yard course and Tiger feels like he is playing putt putt golf. You may win 1 of 18 holes, but that would be more like 1 of 100 holes if you guys played that long.

Scenario two, you play on a Course Tiger usually plays, take your pick, the courses he shoots 66-68 on would make you shoot 20 shots worse than you normally play. No chance in hell you win a hole let alone do much better than a lucky bogey or two.

The difference between "them" and "us" is the difference between tee ball than the MLB. Just because you hit a stationary ball 140 feet over some 6 year olds head and rounded the bases, doesnt mean that "can a regular joe hit a major league pitcher over the fence".

If you think you can then your in denial of the worlds apart we are from them, you think you cant, then you must understand

This is not to say that the "broken clock is still right twice a day" sure tiger shanks or fans one OB every once in a while and gets a double bogey, and you may get a par or birdie on a tour level course once in 500 tries, but the chance of your once in a while miracle and his once in a while bad hole happening on the same hole, well lets just say your better off buying a lottery ticket.

[taki183]

The question is fair enough and the obvious answer is just as others have said ...possible but not probable. The real question is "how probable" and the answer is very subjective. So let's put in a scenario that "evens the playing field" a little.

You are a 15 handi. You are friends with a touring pro and have played with him before so throw out the nervousness from playing with a stranger, etc. You will be playing your home course from the tips which are the same as what you normally play. I think this basically describes the scenario the of the OP. The bet is $100 a hole but the touring pro is giving you 17:1 odds. That means you only need to win 1 hole and you will break even if he wins the rest. Ties carry over. Do you take the bet??

NO WAY if it was me.

Reminds me of one of my favorite commercials with Calc and Bubba Watson.

"What's your handicap these days?"
"Fifteen"
"Goin low!"
"Okay the teams will be you and Hunter against Bubba and myself. What do you say?"
"Alright."
"Great! See you out there."
"Don't forget your wallet."

[OneBowTie]

PixlPutterman , on Nov 5 2009, 12:49 PM, said:

OneBowTie, on Nov 3 2009, 06:53 PM, said:

geez.....from the looks of these posts....I'd say that since most of you feel that you can't beat a pro on a single hole out of 18.....then you probably cant.... personally, I'd bet Tiger Woods I'd win one hole out of 18....and pretty much everybody else I am thinking I could win 2

Im not saying you couldnt, but take two scenarios, the first being tiger plays you at your home course, which turns his ridiculous +13 handicap into a more ridiculous +30. Tigers Birdies become pars and his pars are like double bogeys. You are playing a 6200 yard course and Tiger feels like he is playing putt putt golf. You may win 1 of 18 holes, but that would be more like 1 of 100 holes if you guys played that long.

Scenario two, you play on a Course Tiger usually plays, take your pick, the courses he shoots 66-68 on would make you shoot 20 shots worse than you normally play. No chance in hell you win a hole let alone do much better than a lucky bogey or two.

The difference between "them" and "us" is the difference between tee ball than the MLB. Just because you hit a stationary ball 140 feet over some 6 year olds head and rounded the bases, doesnt mean that "can a regular joe hit a major league pitcher over the fence".

If you think you can then your in denial of the worlds apart we are from them, you think you cant, then you must understand

This is not to say that the "broken clock is still right twice a day" sure tiger shanks or fans one OB every once in a while and gets a double bogey, and you may get a par or birdie on a tour level course once in 500 tries, but the chance of your once in a while miracle and his once in a while bad hole happening on the same hole, well lets just say your better off buying a lottery ticket.

wow.......you really have drank the koolaid!!!!!

first of all.....what do you mean or what are you implying.......like when you say- if we played one of Tigers courses.....like all he plays is US OPEN condition courses......sorry friend....but he plays at clubs where they cater to membership's.....and most members aren't going to allow their course to beat them like a drum daily....and there isn't hardly a course in the US which could hold to those type of conditions on a daily basis year around, let alone for a month straight.....greens would be way to stressed as well as the rest of the courses

second of all....while I agree with you that by far not just Tiger....but pretty much any PGA pro.....from club pro to developmental pro will play much more consistent then me or most joes at a new course.....however, I have played plenty of golf and at many different courses....from muni's to exclusives......and I will agree that at some of the really tough courses, my first loop I may not always play to my index.....I really rarely will shoot 20 shots over my index...........so while you may think to get a bogey once out of 18 holes is on par with you....my friend.....i could make at least 1 par out of 18 holes with just 3 clubs.....

I think you are caught up in some fantasy that pro's only play US OPEN type conditioned courses......not the case at all....they play mostly private well conditioned courses with very true greens......I have played many of those myself and have played several courses which have pretty high index's...IE Ocean course, Black Wolf Run,Pinehurst 2, Black Forrest to name a few....and have recently played 2 courses ranked on golf digest 10 hardest courses in US.... I can tell you this much....I wasn't playing for bogey .....had my fair share of bogeys and worse....but had enough pars here and there, with the occasional birdie to stick with I feel that I can win one out of 18 holes

Today I played a course I had never played before......played with a group of 8.... there was a scats game along with several other wagers taking place.....the groups handicaps ranged from plus 4 to 16....and the plus 4 shot a awesome round of 64-and get this....he only 2 putted 3 greens out of 18.....so I'd say that he was playing extremely well.....get this....I won a scat today with not just the plus 4 playing and shooting a outstanding round of 64....but with 7 other vultures ...

bottom line.....i am not buying into your theory that Tiger or any other pro will travel and take their plus 13 handicap into a plus 30.....there good....but do you honestly think Tiger is going to shoot 42 on a upscale course even at 6200 yards???? And for the record, Tiger did state in a interview on the golf channel when asked about his bet with Romo why he didn't give Romo shots.....his reply was that out on tour they are all 0's and he is a plus 3 or 4 at his home course.....so I have to wonder where he got that plus 13 handicap you mention....

[PixlPutterman]

OneBowTie, on Nov 5 2009, 10:20 PM, said:

PixlPutterman , on Nov 5 2009, 12:49 PM, said:

OneBowTie, on Nov 3 2009, 06:53 PM, said:

geez.....from the looks of these posts....I'd say that since most of you feel that you can't beat a pro on a single hole out of 18.....then you probably cant.... personally, I'd bet Tiger Woods I'd win one hole out of 18....and pretty much everybody else I am thinking I could win 2

Im not saying you couldnt, but take two scenarios, the first being tiger plays you at your home course, which turns his ridiculous +13 handicap into a more ridiculous +30. Tigers Birdies become pars and his pars are like double bogeys. You are playing a 6200 yard course and Tiger feels like he is playing putt putt golf. You may win 1 of 18 holes, but that would be more like 1 of 100 holes if you guys played that long.

Scenario two, you play on a Course Tiger usually plays, take your pick, the courses he shoots 66-68 on would make you shoot 20 shots worse than you normally play. No chance in hell you win a hole let alone do much better than a lucky bogey or two.

The difference between "them" and "us" is the difference between tee ball than the MLB. Just because you hit a stationary ball 140 feet over some 6 year olds head and rounded the bases, doesnt mean that "can a regular joe hit a major league pitcher over the fence".

If you think you can then your in denial of the worlds apart we are from them, you think you cant, then you must understand

This is not to say that the "broken clock is still right twice a day" sure tiger shanks or fans one OB every once in a while and gets a double bogey, and you may get a par or birdie on a tour level course once in 500 tries, but the chance of your once in a while miracle and his once in a while bad hole happening on the same hole, well lets just say your better off buying a lottery ticket.

wow.......you really have drank the koolaid!!!!!

first of all.....what do you mean or what are you implying.......like when you say- if we played one of Tigers courses.....like all he plays is US OPEN condition courses......sorry friend....but he plays at clubs where they cater to membership's.....and most members aren't going to allow their course to beat them like a drum daily....and there isn't hardly a course in the US which could hold to those type of conditions on a daily basis year around, let alone for a month straight.....greens would be way to stressed as well as the rest of the courses

second of all....while I agree with you that by far not just Tiger....but pretty much any PGA pro.....from club pro to developmental pro will play much more consistent then me or most joes at a new course.....however, I have played plenty of golf and at many different courses....from muni's to exclusives......and I will agree that at some of the really tough courses, my first loop I may not always play to my index.....I really rarely will shoot 20 shots over my index...........so while you may think to get a bogey once out of 18 holes is on par with you....my friend.....i could make at least 1 par out of 18 holes with just 3 clubs.....

I think you are caught up in some fantasy that pro's only play US OPEN type conditioned courses......not the case at all....they play mostly private well conditioned courses with very true greens......I have played many of those myself and have played several courses which have pretty high index's...IE Ocean course, Black Wolf Run,Pinehurst 2, Black Forrest to name a few....and have recently played 2 courses ranked on golf digest 10 hardest courses in US.... I can tell you this much....I wasn't playing for bogey .....had my fair share of bogeys and worse....but had enough pars here and there, with the occasional birdie to stick with I feel that I can win one out of 18 holes

Today I played a course I had never played before......played with a group of 8.... there was a scats game along with several other wagers taking place.....the groups handicaps ranged from plus 4 to 16....and the plus 4 shot a awesome round of 64-and get this....he only 2 putted 3 greens out of 18.....so I'd say that he was playing extremely well.....get this....I won a scat today with not just the plus 4 playing and shooting a outstanding round of 64....but with 7 other vultures ...

bottom line.....i am not buying into your theory that Tiger or any other pro will travel and take their plus 13 handicap into a plus 30.....there good....but do you honestly think Tiger is going to shoot 42 on a upscale course even at 6200 yards???? And for the record, Tiger did state in a interview on the golf channel when asked about his bet with Romo why he didn't give Romo shots.....his reply was that out on tour they are all 0's and he is a plus 3 or 4 at his home course.....so I have to wonder where he got that plus 13 handicap you mention....

First off, if you actually think tiger is a plus 3, i really dont have the patience to even talk with you. Just because he shoots 3 under, doesnt add up to a plus three. Do you research and get back with me.

Second I have worked at courses that were "roughed up" to accommodate tour events. For those 4 or 5 weeks the course was PGA rated about 6 strokes harder. And thats for a scratch golfer. For a 15, thats more like 12 or so harder, again do your research and get back with me.

Third of all, if you can make par with only three clubs on a tour pro course, well then you are not a 15 handicap, thus the person i was not talking about. Re-read the OP's question. And if you are a 15, then well your simply a liar. You may get par with three clubs 1 in 50.

GET OVER YOURSELF

[TML]

OneBowTie, on Nov 5 2009, 06:20 PM, said:

PixlPutterman , on Nov 5 2009, 12:49 PM, said:

OneBowTie, on Nov 3 2009, 06:53 PM, said:

geez.....from the looks of these posts....I'd say that since most of you feel that you can't beat a pro on a single hole out of 18.....then you probably cant.... personally, I'd bet Tiger Woods I'd win one hole out of 18....and pretty much everybody else I am thinking I could win 2

Im not saying you couldnt, but take two scenarios, the first being tiger plays you at your home course, which turns his ridiculous +13 handicap into a more ridiculous +30. Tigers Birdies become pars and his pars are like double bogeys. You are playing a 6200 yard course and Tiger feels like he is playing putt putt golf. You may win 1 of 18 holes, but that would be more like 1 of 100 holes if you guys played that long.

Scenario two, you play on a Course Tiger usually plays, take your pick, the courses he shoots 66-68 on would make you shoot 20 shots worse than you normally play. No chance in hell you win a hole let alone do much better than a lucky bogey or two.

The difference between "them" and "us" is the difference between tee ball than the MLB. Just because you hit a stationary ball 140 feet over some 6 year olds head and rounded the bases, doesnt mean that "can a regular joe hit a major league pitcher over the fence".

If you think you can then your in denial of the worlds apart we are from them, you think you cant, then you must understand

This is not to say that the "broken clock is still right twice a day" sure tiger shanks or fans one OB every once in a while and gets a double bogey, and you may get a par or birdie on a tour level course once in 500 tries, but the chance of your once in a while miracle and his once in a while bad hole happening on the same hole, well lets just say your better off buying a lottery ticket.

wow.......you really have drank the koolaid!!!!!

first of all.....what do you mean or what are you implying.......like when you say- if we played one of Tigers courses.....like all he plays is US OPEN condition courses......sorry friend....but he plays at clubs where they cater to membership's.....and most members aren't going to allow their course to beat them like a drum daily....and there isn't hardly a course in the US which could hold to those type of conditions on a daily basis year around, let alone for a month straight.....greens would be way to stressed as well as the rest of the courses

second of all....while I agree with you that by far not just Tiger....but pretty much any PGA pro.....from club pro to developmental pro will play much more consistent then me or most joes at a new course.....however, I have played plenty of golf and at many different courses....from muni's to exclusives......and I will agree that at some of the really tough courses, my first loop I may not always play to my index.....I really rarely will shoot 20 shots over my index...........so while you may think to get a bogey once out of 18 holes is on par with you....my friend.....i could make at least 1 par out of 18 holes with just 3 clubs.....

I think you are caught up in some fantasy that pro's only play US OPEN type conditioned courses......not the case at all....they play mostly private well conditioned courses with very true greens......I have played many of those myself and have played several courses which have pretty high index's...IE Ocean course, Black Wolf Run,Pinehurst 2, Black Forrest to name a few....and have recently played 2 courses ranked on golf digest 10 hardest courses in US.... I can tell you this much....I wasn't playing for bogey .....had my fair share of bogeys and worse....but had enough pars here and there, with the occasional birdie to stick with I feel that I can win one out of 18 holes

Today I played a course I had never played before......played with a group of 8.... there was a scats game along with several other wagers taking place.....the groups handicaps ranged from plus 4 to 16....and the plus 4 shot a awesome round of 64-and get this....he only 2 putted 3 greens out of 18.....so I'd say that he was playing extremely well.....get this....I won a scat today with not just the plus 4 playing and shooting a outstanding round of 64....but with 7 other vultures ...

bottom line.....i am not buying into your theory that Tiger or any other pro will travel and take their plus 13 handicap into a plus 30.....there good....but do you honestly think Tiger is going to shoot 42 on a upscale course even at 6200 yards???? And for the record, Tiger did state in a interview on the golf channel when asked about his bet with Romo why he didn't give Romo shots.....his reply was that out on tour they are all 0's and he is a plus 3 or 4 at his home course.....so I have to wonder where he got that plus 13 handicap you mention....

Tiger better watch out for these sneaky good amateurs. Good thing he only plays on that crappy, overhyped and substandard PGA Tour.

[withdrew]

At your course the pro's second shot on almost every hole is going to be a putter or a wedge.
On the par 5's guaranteed eagle putts on every one.

I think it's impossible.

The average-joe's muni (not counting Bethpage Black or some other pro-caliber setup) is LITERALLY like a pitch-and-putt for a PGA pro. Hell, I play with some kid who is barely in college, hits the ball for miles and I see how easy the game is for him. Short iron into every single green. And he can't even make his college golf team.

These guys are so good, it's beyond comprehension. If you're making a birdie, that pro is making a birdie. And also factor in: Who do you think would be more nervous?

[Guia]

I think there would be a chance to win a whole or two. Of course your chances go down if you are playing in a U.S. Open type course and playing the tips. In this case a 13 - 16 handicap would be lucky to get doubles.

[withdrew]

It doesn't matter where you play. A championship course/setup will eat a 15 alive, and on a public par-72 the pro will eat the course alive.

Zero pressure on the pro
The pro could even go conservative and use 3W off the tee, would out-drive the 15 by 50 yards and be in the middle of the fairway
You could get lucky on a par 3 (maybe) at the muni, but your good-luck would have to coincide with the pro's bad-luck and that's not gonna happen

Again, I don't think the OP's real question is truly about the "possibility" because obviously, it's POSSIBLE (you could hole out a par 3 or approach on a 4) but it would probably NOT happen in 18 holes in my opinion.

[OneBowTie]

TML, on Nov 5 2009, 10:49 PM, said:

OneBowTie, on Nov 5 2009, 06:20 PM, said:

PixlPutterman , on Nov 5 2009, 12:49 PM, said:

OneBowTie, on Nov 3 2009, 06:53 PM, said:

geez.....from the looks of these posts....I'd say that since most of you feel that you can't beat a pro on a single hole out of 18.....then you probably cant.... personally, I'd bet Tiger Woods I'd win one hole out of 18....and pretty much everybody else I am thinking I could win 2

Im not saying you couldnt, but take two scenarios, the first being tiger plays you at your home course, which turns his ridiculous +13 handicap into a more ridiculous +30. Tigers Birdies become pars and his pars are like double bogeys. You are playing a 6200 yard course and Tiger feels like he is playing putt putt golf. You may win 1 of 18 holes, but that would be more like 1 of 100 holes if you guys played that long.

Scenario two, you play on a Course Tiger usually plays, take your pick, the courses he shoots 66-68 on would make you shoot 20 shots worse than you normally play. No chance in hell you win a hole let alone do much better than a lucky bogey or two.

The difference between "them" and "us" is the difference between tee ball than the MLB. Just because you hit a stationary ball 140 feet over some 6 year olds head and rounded the bases, doesnt mean that "can a regular joe hit a major league pitcher over the fence".

If you think you can then your in denial of the worlds apart we are from them, you think you cant, then you must understand

This is not to say that the "broken clock is still right twice a day" sure tiger shanks or fans one OB every once in a while and gets a double bogey, and you may get a par or birdie on a tour level course once in 500 tries, but the chance of your once in a while miracle and his once in a while bad hole happening on the same hole, well lets just say your better off buying a lottery ticket.

wow.......you really have drank the koolaid!!!!!

first of all.....what do you mean or what are you implying.......like when you say- if we played one of Tigers courses.....like all he plays is US OPEN condition courses......sorry friend....but he plays at clubs where they cater to membership's.....and most members aren't going to allow their course to beat them like a drum daily....and there isn't hardly a course in the US which could hold to those type of conditions on a daily basis year around, let alone for a month straight.....greens would be way to stressed as well as the rest of the courses

second of all....while I agree with you that by far not just Tiger....but pretty much any PGA pro.....from club pro to developmental pro will play much more consistent then me or most joes at a new course.....however, I have played plenty of golf and at many different courses....from muni's to exclusives......and I will agree that at some of the really tough courses, my first loop I may not always play to my index.....I really rarely will shoot 20 shots over my index...........so while you may think to get a bogey once out of 18 holes is on par with you....my friend.....i could make at least 1 par out of 18 holes with just 3 clubs.....

I think you are caught up in some fantasy that pro's only play US OPEN type conditioned courses......not the case at all....they play mostly private well conditioned courses with very true greens......I have played many of those myself and have played several courses which have pretty high index's...IE Ocean course, Black Wolf Run,Pinehurst 2, Black Forrest to name a few....and have recently played 2 courses ranked on golf digest 10 hardest courses in US.... I can tell you this much....I wasn't playing for bogey .....had my fair share of bogeys and worse....but had enough pars here and there, with the occasional birdie to stick with I feel that I can win one out of 18 holes

Today I played a course I had never played before......played with a group of 8.... there was a scats game along with several other wagers taking place.....the groups handicaps ranged from plus 4 to 16....and the plus 4 shot a awesome round of 64-and get this....he only 2 putted 3 greens out of 18.....so I'd say that he was playing extremely well.....get this....I won a scat today with not just the plus 4 playing and shooting a outstanding round of 64....but with 7 other vultures ...

bottom line.....i am not buying into your theory that Tiger or any other pro will travel and take their plus 13 handicap into a plus 30.....there good....but do you honestly think Tiger is going to shoot 42 on a upscale course even at 6200 yards???? And for the record, Tiger did state in a interview on the golf channel when asked about his bet with Romo why he didn't give Romo shots.....his reply was that out on tour they are all 0's and he is a plus 3 or 4 at his home course.....so I have to wonder where he got that plus 13 handicap you mention....

Tiger better watch out for these sneaky good amateurs. Good thing he only plays on that crappy, overhyped and substandard PGA Tour.

haha.....I think I clearly stated I'm no threat to any Pro let alone Tiger...... and don't know where you get the idea I think Tiger or any pro for that matter plays on overhyped courses or that the PGA TOURS are substandard

I guess you also think a pro only makes birdies and eagles on every hole.....

withdrew, on Nov 5 2009, 11:06 PM, said:

At your course the pro's second shot on almost every hole is going to be a putter or a wedge.
On the par 5's guaranteed eagle putts on every one.

I think it's impossible.

The average-joe's muni (not counting Bethpage Black or some other pro-caliber setup) is LITERALLY like a pitch-and-putt for a PGA pro. Hell, I play with some kid who is barely in college, hits the ball for miles and I see how easy the game is for him. Short iron into every single green. And he can't even make his college golf team.

These guys are so good, it's beyond comprehension. If you're making a birdie, that pro is making a birdie. And also factor in: Who do you think would be more nervous?

Oh I realize how good the pro's are..... and realize how hard it is to make some college or for that matter even HS golf teams....let alone make it on a TOUR

as far as comprehension of how good they are..... no its not really ..... they are awesome.....I admit they make shots look easy.... I have seen many in action ....like I said, they are consistent...very consistent....but they all have days when not even they can drop what is normally routine putts.....and while I definitely agree with you, that on most of our courses....they would have short irons or wedges in.....but then again, on some of those very holes, so would I.....and heck, i'll just concede all the par 5's to them right now if that makes you feel better....but that leaves 4 par 3's where I have that chance to stick in gimmy range where they may stick at say 10 feet and miss the birdie- and don't say that isn't possible.....

and honestly, If you honestly think the pro's are going to go for it on all the par 4's.... I like that....that just might play into my hands even more, as they may dump one out of bounds or in the creek or pond.....

I am not in anyway saying I can beat any pro....from club pro to developmental tour pro.....but I honestly think I can beat any of them on one hole if we played 18.....

[TML]

lemme guess. You can also beat Federer on one point in tennis, Jeter on one pitch in baseball and Kobe on one point in basketball.

[OneBowTie]

withdrew, on Nov 5 2009, 11:27 PM, said:

It doesn't matter where you play. A championship course/setup will eat a 15 alive, and on a public par-72 the pro will eat the course alive.

Zero pressure on the pro
The pro could even go conservative and use 3W off the tee, would out-drive the 15 by 50 yards and be in the middle of the fairway
You could get lucky on a par 3 (maybe) at the muni, but your good-luck would have to coincide with the pro's bad-luck and that's not gonna happen

Again, I don't think the OP's real question is truly about the "possibility" because obviously, it's POSSIBLE (you could hole out a par 3 or approach on a 4) but it would probably NOT happen in 18 holes in my opinion.

first of all.....nobody but a top 125 pro plays championship course.....ie....MAJOR course setup......and they only play them 4 times in a year.....so lets for conversation purpose say that If this game were to happen, it would be on a upscale private course or upscale resort style course set up around 6500 yards or less......

and even in these conditions.....pro's do on occasion miss the fairways and do not make birdie on every hole....and for that matter.....par is not automatic....they still have to play out the hole.....

I will concede the pro to shoot 68 or less....however, I will say that there will be many birdies, possibly a eagle or two.....but I also see a bogey or two in this round on their part- for whatever reason....

and likely the pro would use 3 woods or less off the tee's......and that would mean I would still have several holes possibly coming into the greens with 7 iron or less on par 4's and would have 4 chances on the par 3's to stick it.....

[OneBowTie]

TML, on Nov 5 2009, 11:47 PM, said:

lemme guess. You can also beat Federer on one point in tennis, Jeter on one pitch in baseball and Kobe on one point in basketball.

nope, nope and nope

[Guia]

Let me explain the difference between "Possibility" and "Probability".

Possibility is the chance that something could happen.
Probability is the that the event will most likely happen.

Could a 13 - 16 beat a pro for a couple of holes. The Possibility is yes. The Probability is no.