[mikec222]

Just a quick bit, A friend of mine won the club championship in extra holes after the other guy beat him in the playoff hole, but the people watching noticed the fellow had forgotten to move his ball back after moving the marker out of my friends way.

Ends up getting a triple with the two stroke penalty and losing the playoff hole to a double (nerves got the the both of them. They were under par for the two day tourney)

tough lesson learned for one, and an odd way to win for another.

[mickw]

Uggggghh! That's a bummer...but them's the rules. You gotta hope the guy can rebound and maybe win next year. Hats off to your buddy...sounds like he played impressively. Also, at my friend's club this summer, a guy had a chance to take the championship to another playoff hole. He missed a 1 1/2 footer and lost, right then and there. I played against the guy that lost in their member/guest a couple of weeks ago...he's actually an excellent putter and an even better guy. It can be a cruel game at times.

[Bluefan75]

mikec222, on Sep 12 2009, 11:56 PM, said:

Just a quick bit, A friend of mine won the club championship in extra holes after the other guy beat him in the playoff hole, but the people watching noticed the fellow had forgotten to move his ball back after moving the marker out of my friends way.

Ends up getting a triple with the two stroke penalty and losing the playoff hole to a double (nerves got the the both of them. They were under par for the two day tourney)

tough lesson learned for one, and an odd way to win for another.

Not saying your buddy did anything wrong here, just more a general comment, but should it not be standard etiquette that the player who asks someone to move his mark for him remind him to put it back when he's done? I've rarely ever seen or heard anyone after making their stroke tell the other person to remember to put the mark back.

Would seem to me to be a logical piece of etiquette, no?

Given the rampant sandbagging, I can easily see a slimeball ask someone to move a mark, even though it really won't impact them, only to then plant the seed in the person's head that they didn't put it back later in the round.

[mikec222]

My friend had no idea he hadn't marked it back. He thought he lost, it wasn't till a few minutes later when a bunch of spectators realized and brought it to someone's attention. I think he was pretty absorbed in the fact he had just doubled a playoff hole.

[Bluefan75]

mikec222, on Sep 14 2009, 02:45 PM, said:

My friend had no idea he hadn't marked it back. He thought he lost, it wasn't till a few minutes later when a bunch of spectators realized and brought it to someone's attention. I think he was pretty absorbed in the fact he had just doubled a playoff hole.

But again, and this is not specific to your friend because it seems to play out this way every time no matter who is involved, your friend asked him to move the mark; should he not, after making his stroke, say to the guy "don't forget to put your mark back"?

I'm the biggest proponent of upholding etiquette, and etiquette is what makes this game what it is, but given all that etiquette is purported to represent, it's weird that a guy can ask someone to move his mark, but he bears no responsibility(even on an etiquette basis) to ensure the player moves it back. Like I said, connivers could purposely put people in penalty situations.

The best analogy I can think of, although the above is not nearly as serious a breach, is the player who notices a rules violation, and doesn't say anything until after the player has signed his scorecard, and then goes to the officials to have him DQ'd for signing an incorrect scorecard, instead of saying something to the player first so that they add the strokes prior to signing. It's still on the player who makes the stroke, but...this is supposed to be a gentleman's game, no?(Apparenlty that happened at Q-school a couple times.)

[Hateto3Putt]

Ive had that exact scenario happen to me. Now, my ballmarker is a vivid pink. Whenever I move it out of the proper spot, I flip it over to the dull metal side.

If I go to replace my ball and the marker is not bright pink.....

Saved me at least twice so far

[mikec222]

it is a tough situation. I've had 5 conclusions so memory, especially this type of memory is awful for me. In fact I've probably not replaced the marker , and not noticed myself. No one would have noticed in this case either had their not been an audience.

I see the previous posters point, but I do think that it is a bit much to ask of a player to remember that the previous player had moved his mark. I would never remember that after lining my putt, taking my putt, missing and handing over the club championship.

I wasn't there I'm not sure if he even asked to have it moved, or the other guy noticed and offered.

Two strokes is kind of harsh though no? I think one stroke and moving the ball and replaying the shot is plenty.

Tough game.

[DaveLeeNC]

Hateto3Putt, on Sep 14 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

Ive had that exact scenario happen to me. Now, my ballmarker is a vivid pink. Whenever I move it out of the proper spot, I flip it over to the dull metal side.

If I go to replace my ball and the marker is not bright pink.....

Saved me at least twice so far

I may pass on the pink ballmarker :-)

But that is a very good idea.

dave

[italianstallion]

Bluefan75, on Sep 14 2009, 09:46 AM, said:

mikec222, on Sep 12 2009, 11:56 PM, said:

Just a quick bit, A friend of mine won the club championship in extra holes after the other guy beat him in the playoff hole, but the people watching noticed the fellow had forgotten to move his ball back after moving the marker out of my friends way.

Ends up getting a triple with the two stroke penalty and losing the playoff hole to a double (nerves got the the both of them. They were under par for the two day tourney)

tough lesson learned for one, and an odd way to win for another.

Not saying your buddy did anything wrong here, just more a general comment, but should it not be standard etiquette that the player who asks someone to move his mark for him remind him to put it back when he's done? I've rarely ever seen or heard anyone after making their stroke tell the other person to remember to put the mark back.

Would seem to me to be a logical piece of etiquette, no?

Given the rampant sandbagging, I can easily see a slimeball ask someone to move a mark, even though it really won't impact them, only to then plant the seed in the person's head that they didn't put it back later in the round.

I check and make sure people move their marks back even when they're in the process of doing it/have already done it.

"Don't forget to move your mark back."

"Did you move your mark back?"

"Okay good, you're moving your mark back."

I use either one of the three depending on what they have/haven't done yet

[pjh]

A rule I personally despise...people have all sorts of tricks to try to recall but I've seen too many good rounds or competitions get screwed up because of this rule.

Perhaps folks here have some ideas on how best to remember. When I mark I simply say "mark, mark, mark" 100 times over while the other guy is putting to remember to remark.

[Hateto3Putt]

DaveLeeNC, on Sep 16 2009, 07:11 AM, said:

I may pass on the pink ballmarker :-)

But that is a very good idea.

dave

It's funny how it got that way....

For years, I had a nice ballmark/divot tool from Oakmont. After much use the acorn munching rodent had become no more than a stamped impression as all the paint had chipped/worn off. It had worn itself down to a dull brown and was actually kinda tough to see on the green.

I asked my Daughter (who was 12 at the time) if she had some white or red nail polish I could borrow to paint the thing. She said: "I'll paint it for you Daddy". When she handed me back my ball marking disk, she couldn't have been prouder of her work.

Since then my ballmark has been Maybelline brand #203 "Party Girl Pink".



Actually, it's become my green marking trademark. My regulars never have to guess who's ball is there, and I've told the above tale more than once to strangers who comment. It's been repainted PGP at least 3 times.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

[larrybud]

Hateto3Putt, on Sep 16 2009, 08:11 AM, said:

DaveLeeNC, on Sep 16 2009, 07:11 AM, said:

I may pass on the pink ballmarker :-)

But that is a very good idea.

dave

It's funny how it got that way....

For years, I had a nice ballmark/divot tool from Oakmont. After much use the acorn munching rodent had become no more than a stamped impression as all the paint had chipped/worn off. It had worn itself down to a dull brown and was actually kinda tough to see on the green.

I asked my Daughter (who was 12 at the time) if she had some white or red nail polish I could borrow to paint the thing. She said: "I'll paint it for you Daddy". When she handed me back my ball marking disk, she couldn't have been prouder of her work.

Since then my ballmark has been Maybelline brand #203 "Party Girl Pink".



Actually, it's become my green marking trademark. My regulars never have to guess who's ball is there, and I've told the above tale more than once to strangers who comment. It's been repainted PGP at least 3 times.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

Maybe you can share that ball mark with Paula Creamer ;-)

[rapriebe]

Bluefan75, on Sep 14 2009, 07:46 AM, said:

mikec222, on Sep 12 2009, 11:56 PM, said:

Just a quick bit, A friend of mine won the club championship in extra holes after the other guy beat him in the playoff hole, but the people watching noticed the fellow had forgotten to move his ball back after moving the marker out of my friends way.

Ends up getting a triple with the two stroke penalty and losing the playoff hole to a double (nerves got the the both of them. They were under par for the two day tourney)

tough lesson learned for one, and an odd way to win for another.

Not saying your buddy did anything wrong here, just more a general comment, but should it not be standard etiquette that the player who asks someone to move his mark for him remind him to put it back when he's done? I've rarely ever seen or heard anyone after making their stroke tell the other person to remember to put the mark back.

Would seem to me to be a logical piece of etiquette, no?

Given the rampant sandbagging, I can easily see a slimeball ask someone to move a mark, even though it really won't impact them, only to then plant the seed in the person's head that they didn't put it back later in the round.

Nothing in etiquette about it, maybe a sportsmanship issue if done intentionally, but in the heat of the moment it's not hard to be so focused on your own game that you don't think about what the other guy is doing.

It is the player's own responsibility to play his ball from the correct place, not his opponent's. When he moved his mark, the player should have done something that would serve as a reminder him that he needed to move it back. Not having done so is his fault and his alone. In fact, in stroke play it is always an option to play your stroke rather than marking if your ball interferes with another player's stroke, and I will often just take that option.

[vanmatthew]

It also happens on the PGA. Tim Clark did the same exact thing at the Bridgestone open when he was tied for the lead on Saturday. The two stroke penalty knocked him out of first.

[Bluefan75]

rapriebe, on Sep 25 2009, 11:52 AM, said:

Bluefan75, on Sep 14 2009, 07:46 AM, said:

mikec222, on Sep 12 2009, 11:56 PM, said:

Just a quick bit, A friend of mine won the club championship in extra holes after the other guy beat him in the playoff hole, but the people watching noticed the fellow had forgotten to move his ball back after moving the marker out of my friends way.

Ends up getting a triple with the two stroke penalty and losing the playoff hole to a double (nerves got the the both of them. They were under par for the two day tourney)

tough lesson learned for one, and an odd way to win for another.

Not saying your buddy did anything wrong here, just more a general comment, but should it not be standard etiquette that the player who asks someone to move his mark for him remind him to put it back when he's done? I've rarely ever seen or heard anyone after making their stroke tell the other person to remember to put the mark back.

Would seem to me to be a logical piece of etiquette, no?

Given the rampant sandbagging, I can easily see a slimeball ask someone to move a mark, even though it really won't impact them, only to then plant the seed in the person's head that they didn't put it back later in the round.

Nothing in etiquette about it, maybe a sportsmanship issue if done intentionally, but in the heat of the moment it's not hard to be so focused on your own game that you don't think about what the other guy is doing.

It is the player's own responsibility to play his ball from the correct place, not his opponent's. When he moved his mark, the player should have done something that would serve as a reminder him that he needed to move it back. Not having done so is his fault and his alone. In fact, in stroke play it is always an option to play your stroke rather than marking if your ball interferes with another player's stroke, and I will often just take that option.

Now this I didn't know. That is good information. Trade getting a read on the putt for removing the possibility of not putting your mark back.

I have to say that I don't necessarily agree with your first paragraph, though, and why something has always not sit right with me on this whole issue. I think once you ask the opponent to do something, you no longer have the "heat of the moment, can't think about the other guy" excuse. At least from an etiquette standpoint, I just think you can't ask someone to move his mark on one hand, and then claim complete and total focus on your game on the other. Just always surprised me there is nothing in the etiquette section on this. Strict rules, I get.

[Dizzub]

Bluefan75, on Sep 14 2009, 09:46 AM, said:

mikec222, on Sep 12 2009, 11:56 PM, said:

Just a quick bit, A friend of mine won the club championship in extra holes after the other guy beat him in the playoff hole, but the people watching noticed the fellow had forgotten to move his ball back after moving the marker out of my friends way.

Ends up getting a triple with the two stroke penalty and losing the playoff hole to a double (nerves got the the both of them. They were under par for the two day tourney)

tough lesson learned for one, and an odd way to win for another.

Not saying your buddy did anything wrong here, just more a general comment, but should it not be standard etiquette that the player who asks someone to move his mark for him remind him to put it back when he's done? I've rarely ever seen or heard anyone after making their stroke tell the other person to remember to put the mark back.

Would seem to me to be a logical piece of etiquette, no?

Given the rampant sandbagging, I can easily see a slimeball ask someone to move a mark, even though it really won't impact them, only to then plant the seed in the person's head that they didn't put it back later in the round.

Yea I mean I always remind my playing partner if he isn't already in the act of replacing his mark. I've only been on the other side of forgetting to replace my mark one time and that was enough for me. Playing in the State Tournament in high school the second I tapped in a 2 footer the guy in my group smiled and reminded me then. I remember how mad I was at myself for forgetting and it was a good lesson to learn but I will also never be that guy who smiles at your mistake and tells you after.

[faith+1]

I would have let the guy off the hook without a penalty. I wouldn't want to win it like that. This ain't the PGA Tour, this is for pride more than anything and there is no pride in winning like that, IMHO.

[Bluefan75]

pfgplm, on Sep 29 2009, 01:53 PM, said:

I would have let the guy off the hook without a penalty. I wouldn't want to win it like that. This ain't the PGA Tour, this is for pride more than anything and there is no pride in winning like that, IMHO.

The problem is you can't let the guy off the hook, because there is the field to consider. Years ago, in the club championship at my old club, a guy was blowing up like crazy. Doubles and triples, just ugly. Anyway, he happened to ask a guy what club he hit before he hit his shot. Because he was blowing up, and seemingly playing his way out of it, the other guys decided it was an honest mistake, and let it go. The next day turned up windy, many people shot high scores except this guy. He ended up third, 3 strokes out of first. Now it was a lower flight, not the overall championship, but what if he had played *just a little better* the first day? Now he's possibly winning the flight.

No, it's not the PGA Tour, but the rest of the guys in the flight played by the rules, and they should get beat by a guy who didn't because it isn't the tour? They are competing as well.

This came out about 3 years later, and since it was a low flight, and no prizes were involved, no one did anything, but even 3 years later, one of the guys who decided to let it go was still quite embarrassed over the whole thing. Heck, my new club puts the winner and runner up of all flights up on a board. Imagine if the guy's name went up on a board?

[Smack Daddy]

Bluefan75, on Sep 14 2009, 09:46 AM, said:

Not saying your buddy did anything wrong here, just more a general comment, but should it not be standard etiquette that the player who asks someone to move his mark for him remind him to put it back when he's done? I've rarely ever seen or heard anyone after making their stroke tell the other person to remember to put the mark back.

I always try to remember to mention it to someone myself. When I have marked I usually hold my putter in a different manner to remind me.

Had an interesting situation happen to me recently. Playing in a team match, one opponent walks into the bunker where we both were and plays my ball in error. Skulls (skinned) my ball then it landed on a road. A one hole ruined B330. Didn't even offer to replace it with an XXXXX'd out Topflite.

Then, later in the match, his partner walks up to a ball in the rough that I was pretty sure was mine. As he appeared to look at it and was over the ball going through his pre-shot routine I didn't say anything. Now I feel pretty bad about this....his ball was a few feet away and down in the rough....I was 99% sure he was on my ball which it turns out he was. What could I do....if I was wrong he gets peeved that I'm messing with him or think he is an idiot. Two holes we won in a tight match we won though I feel I could have stopped the second one.

[Hateto3Putt]

Smack Daddy, on Sep 29 2009, 05:17 PM, said:

I always try to remember to mention it to someone myself. When I have marked I usually hold my putter in a different manner to remind me.

Agreed! Do something/anything out of the norm, it's like tying a string around your finger! As I said above, I flip my marker to the "other" side. When I go to replace my ball it's "out of the norm" and I think, "oh yeah, ball moved".

Love your avatar! Did you see the Cleveland show? It's gotta come a long way before it gets near the quality of Family Guy.

Peter golfing with OJ....