[mister2cool]

Instead of messing with balls and grooves, lengthening course, etc. I believe the simplest way to force today's power players to dial down on power is to ban metal spikes. When they can no longer swing out of their shoes, which happened to be nailed on the ground, they would have to employ different strategy on course management.

I don't care about the claim of damaging greens or club house, but metal spikes are banned in amateur competitions, so why should pro's be allowed to use them?

I was a Marshal at Barclay's and I would say 80% of the pros wore metal spikes. Some did use softspikes, and what really amazed me was Ryan Moore, who wore NO spikes on most days. Only on Sat after all the rain overnight, he wore softspikes.

[MadGolfer76]

I have wondered about this myself. I think you are right in that the usual justification is that individuals with consistently high swing speeds and that play such a wide variety of conditions on a regular basis need to have a firmer footing. However, I haven't noticed much difference in my own play which led me to the same question as you.

Good footwork is good footwork regardless of the type of spikes you wear. Because of this, I doubt switching spikes would make players of that caliber dial down their swing speeds. The guys who hit it long will still find a way to hit it long no matter what changes are made (imo).

[randomhero1090]

I'd rather play in my shoes with softspikes than metal spikes. I don't know if metal spikes really give you that much more grip. That's just me.

[Bluefan75]

Because the shoes have to do with a lot more than simply swing speed. Remember number one we are talking about people's livelihoods here. Secondly, they play through conditions that most people don't even tolerate a quarter of. When it is raining/has rained, and you've got a 210 yard shot from a sidehill lie, you do not want your feet slipping. Nor do you even want the thought that it might slip entering your head.

You are mistaken if you think guys would not hit the ball just as far in softspikes as they do in spikes. Between all the technology and physical fitness and ball contruction, the shoes themselves have every little to do with power.

I would go back to metal spikes in a heartbeat.

[harold baines]

I'm sure that 100 guys, or fewer on some days is way less play than many of the courses we frequent get

[mat562]

I've never read a shred of anecdotal evidence, nor is it my own experience that metal spikes give a significant distance increase over soft spikes.

[jaskanski]

I don't think metal spikes are a problem for professional golfers. Most pro's are courteous and thoughtful enough not to drag their feet across the greens. The Tour has no ability to ban or sanction the use of any spike since they do not own the majority of the courses on which the tornaments are played. That is up to the owners of the course and the greenkeeping staff to decide on what they consider to be potentially damaging to the course. It is not really an issue in the majority of cases - soft or plastic spikes can be just as damaging in the wrong hands (er...feet) of the casual weekender.

[OpusX20]

jaskanski, on Sep 11 2009, 01:58 PM, said:

I don't think metal spikes are a problem for professional golfers. Most pro's are courteous and thoughtful enough not to drag their feet across the greens. The Tour has no ability to ban or sanction the use of any spike since they do not own the majority of the courses on which the tornaments are played. That is up to the owners of the course and the greenkeeping staff to decide on what they consider to be potentially damaging to the course. It is not really an issue in the majority of cases - soft or plastic spikes can be just as damaging in the wrong hands (er...feet) of the casual weekender.

Um...what? Are you saying the use or non-use of metal spikes on the PGA Tour is decided by each course super on a venue by venue basis? Really? Does the club pro at each course decide if they play the one ball rule or not?

[Swingtheclub]

OpusX20, on Sep 11 2009, 03:11 PM, said:

jaskanski, on Sep 11 2009, 01:58 PM, said:

I don't think metal spikes are a problem for professional golfers. Most pro's are courteous and thoughtful enough not to drag their feet across the greens. The Tour has no ability to ban or sanction the use of any spike since they do not own the majority of the courses on which the tornaments are played. That is up to the owners of the course and the greenkeeping staff to decide on what they consider to be potentially damaging to the course. It is not really an issue in the majority of cases - soft or plastic spikes can be just as damaging in the wrong hands (er...feet) of the casual weekender.

Um...what? Are you saying the use or non-use of metal spikes on the PGA Tour is decided by each course super on a venue by venue basis? Really? Does the club pro at each course decide if they play the one ball rule or not?

LMAO

Oh and i prefer swinging in steel but walking in soft

[littlepingman]

I also miss the metal spikes. Like it or not they definitely provided more traction when swinging or walking the golf course.

[Rudders]

mister2cool, on Sep 11 2009, 02:22 PM, said:

...Marshal at Barclay's and I would say 80% of the pros wore metal spikes. Some did use softspikes, and what really amazed me was Bryan Moore, who wore NO spikes on most days. Only on Sat after all the rain overnight, he wore softspikes.

Bryan Moore died at The Battle of the Bulge. You probably mean Ryan Moore.

[cmmgolflab]

I have been told it's for legal reasons. If the tour banned metal spikes and a golfer got injured due to foot slippage (or something similar), the tour would be liable since it banned the use of metal spikes.

[stage1350]

Softspikes are a ploy by clubhouses to prevent the PM that was needed from damage to wood and carpet from metal spikes.

There is a secondary benefit from the assbags that don't know how to pick up their feet when they walk on greens, but they still tear up greens with softspikes too.

Metal spikes not only offer better traction from the tee, but also when you are trying to walk a muddy slope. Do you think Tiger or Ernie want to tweak a knee again because they slipped on a wet slope where metal spikes would have given them traction?

I'd like to see Coors Ceramics bring back the ceramic alternative spikes. Softspike type wear on the greens that lasted the life of the shoe.

[mister2cool]

Well, the tour is trying to make the game more difficult for the pros by changing rules on grooves, and possibly balls down the road.
I don't know if banning metal spikes would be "messing with their livelihood". It might be debatable if metal spikes allow big swinger more distance, but I think it is an advantage over soft spikes in terms of traction. And it is not fair if pros are allowed to use them, but amateurs are not.

[mat562]

There's nothing to say that pros are allowed to use them and amateurs are not other than individual policies at golf clubs.

Pros play under the auspices of the various tours who, in their wisdom, generally deem 'proper' spikes to be acceptable for general play. If the host club has a local regulation prohibiting the use of spikes, it gets suspended for the duration of the tournament. Amateurs, for the most part, are required to abide by the regulations imposed by the individual clubs at which they play their golf; most of whom have decreed that spikes, for a variety of reasons, are undesirable. If you're feeling disadvantaged, blame the club you play at, not the PGA (or any other) professional tour.

I'm with Stage on this. My club's greenkeeper says that spikes are less damaging to greens than softspikes and I believe him. Assuming people can be bothered to actually pick up their feet when they walk, there's no reason that greens should be damaged to any great degree by either type of spike. Most of the really hideous damage I see (with softspikes) is squarely down to the Herman Munster brigade who slob about the place and scrape the greens to hell with their clumsy footwork. Most courses (including mine) bought into the spike ban trend because they believed a lot of the talk of the time about early softspikes being better for the greens than real spikes and because they could forsee substantial savings from not having to replace flooring, benches and other items because of the idiot brigade who want to traipse about everywhere in golf shoes and can't be bothered to invest a couple of minutes of time to change their shoes in a locker room before entering certain areas of the clubhouse.

As for real spikes providing an advantage to the player that rivals square grooves, hot-faced drivers and modern golf balls and thus needing the sweeping hand of regulation by the game's governing bodies? Er.. no.

[aaronvandu27]

the tour cant ban metal spikes because all together u have a lot better support when u where them because 1 they don't get clogged and 2 they actually go into the ground. some golfers need the extra support because of there swing speed. Ive played in metal spikes before and it was amazing how much it gripped.

[Buddyjay]

I agree with all the posters who WANT to bring back metal spikes. I have an average swing speed and I have slipped many times with soft spikes, on flat ground. ESPECIALLY WALKING ON WOODEN STEPS! I got hurt a couple weeks ago slipping on wooden steps. It was like ice skating. Soft spikes clog up too fast with damp grass also. When clogged, they are totally useless.
I bought new Ecco shoes with Scorpion spikes and two months later, I had to replace the spikes. It's not the course that's grinding them down, it's walking on the concrete that does it. Metal spikes have much more gripping power and last much, much longer.
I also see much more "damage" to greens with soft spikes due to people dragging their feet. Metal spikes have 1 prong per spike, where soft spikes can have eight prongs per spike. So the argument that metal spikes are destroying greens is pure bull. I do believe it has more to do with clubhouse floors and shoe company's pushing the higher profit margins of soft spikes.

[vtprodigy511]

i think part of it also is that these guys are professionals at what they do and there are only 150 of them at the very most for 5-6 days a week. i would think that they have the consciousness to pick up their feet when there walking on the green compared to public courses where courses deal with up to 1000s of people a week... it would only take a handful of people dragging there feet to ruin the course for others possibly to the point where they would have to shut down for a period of time to make repairs. there touring pros are playing for their livelihood and the courses are shut down before and after an event for repairs anyway.

[mister2cool]

Guys, you are missing my point of the question.

The Tour wants to make the game more difficult for the pros. For example, changes to the grooves would make shots out of rough more similar to what an average golfer can do with whatever grooves. Lengthening the course actually cause more pain for amateurs than it does to pros. Along that line, I think banning metal spikes could be a very simple thing to do to bring changes to pro-level game. This would bring the pro games more on par with what average golfer are dealing with everyday. I used Ryan Moore as an example that you do not have to have metal spikes to be play tour level golf, hell, you do not need spikes at all!

To use baseball as an analogy it would be like allowing aluminum bats for MLB but banning them for everyone else. I mean why is it ok for average golfers to stand on a slippery side hill with soft spikes, but not the ones on tour, while trying to hit the same greens?

I have never personally tried metal spikes, but I can't imagine they are safer on wooden steps unless they are sharp enough to dig into the wood. The spikes I have seen have rounded tips, so I think they should be even more slippery on any hard surfaces.

[OpusX20]

mister2cool, on Sep 11 2009, 10:06 PM, said:

Guys, you are missing my point of the question.

The Tour wants to make the game more difficult for the pros. For example, changes to the grooves would make shots out of rough more similar to what an average golfer can do with whatever grooves. Lengthening the course actually cause more pain for amateurs than it does to pros. Along that line, I think banning metal spikes could be a very simple thing to do to bring changes to pro-level game. This would bring the pro games more on par with what average golfer are dealing with everyday. I used Ryan Moore as an example that you do not have to have metal spikes to be play tour level golf, hell, you do not need spikes at all!

To use baseball as an analogy it would be like allowing aluminum bats for MLB but banning them for everyone else. I mean why is it ok for average golfers to stand on a slippery side hill with soft spikes, but not the ones on tour, while trying to hit the same greens?

I have never personally tried metal spikes, but I can't imagine they are safer on wooden steps unless they are sharp enough to dig into the wood. The spikes I have seen have rounded tips, so I think they should be even more slippery on any hard surfaces.

Allowing metal spikes is not a "rule" that the Tour management can just change to make the game harder. Spikes are a policy provision, so it would have to be voted on by the players themselves. That's the most obvious reason why they don't ban metal spikes. Eventually the players will vote metal spikes out I believe. Some of the younger generation players (Ryan Moore?) have grown up playing on soft spikes. Once there are enough of them in the membership, I wouldn't be surprised to see metal spikes go away.

[OldSkoolTexan]

They dont ban metal because Tiger wears metal. Ok, ok..... Sergio, Phil, Paddy, Vijay, Lefty, etc.... Alot of those guys wear metal. Im not saying that Tiger would quit playing golf just because he cant wear metal. I just think those guys would fight harder than they did against the new groove rule....

[stage1350]

The same reason that MLB players use metal spikes on natural grass is why some PGA professionals use metal spikes. Sure-footed traction. Some guys grew up on them. Others don't want to slip and injure themselves. It doesn't take much to tweak your back or pop a tendon if you slip and try to balance yourself.

As for the USGA wanting to make the game harder. It's a sad irony. They want to go back to the "good old days" but want to ban the spikes from the "good old days." They're idiots and proved it with the groove rules.

[rehberg]

So to make the game harder you would like professionals to be slipping while they are trying to hit the ball? You want to take away traction? Ridiculous

[mikec222]

this is kind of dumb because I really don't think it makes any difference, except maybe in really wet condition.

If you have a balanced swing like the pros do, you could swing in you bare feet and it wouldn't make much of a difference.

Pros know how to walk in spikes, so there is really no need to get rid of them.

[Redman]

rehberg, on Sep 13 2009, 02:16 PM, said:

So to make the game harder you would like professionals to be slipping while they are trying to hit the ball? You want to take away traction? Ridiculous

I 100% agree. This is a ridiculous way to try and make the game harder. Why don't we just start building the tee boxes on the sides of hills and put hazards in the middle of greens too?

[Rudders]

mister2cool, on Sep 11 2009, 11:06 PM, said:

Guys, you are missing my point of the question.

The Tour wants to make the game more difficult for the pros. For example, changes to the grooves would make shots out of rough more similar to what an average golfer can do with whatever grooves. Lengthening the course actually cause more pain for amateurs than it does to pros. Along that line, I think banning metal spikes could be a very simple thing to do to bring changes to pro-level game. This would bring the pro games more on par with what average golfer are dealing with everyday. I used Ryan Moore as an example that you do not have to have metal spikes to be play tour level golf, hell, you do not need spikes at all!

To use baseball as an analogy it would be like allowing aluminum bats for MLB but banning them for everyone else. I mean why is it ok for average golfers to stand on a slippery side hill with soft spikes, but not the ones on tour, while trying to hit the same greens?

I have never personally tried metal spikes, but I can't imagine they are safer on wooden steps unless they are sharp enough to dig into the wood. The spikes I have seen have rounded tips, so I think they should be even more slippery on any hard surfaces.

Another young 'un. Champs used to make metal spikes with round "tips", like other companies, but I remember one spike a bunch of years back that had a tungsten tip that had more of a "point" than a round configuration. You'd hit the wooden stairs with those and they'd like an impression. This is like the song "Remember Then" by The Earls...That's dating me (1963).

[dlygrisse]

Rediculous analogy, golfers have been wearing meatal spikes since the days of Harry Vardon, why not just ban the tianium driver, the ProV1 and graphite shaft, if you are wanting to roll back the increase in power go directly to the source, changing spikes would be a very passive-agressive way to go about it.

Metal spikes are not against the rules of golf, they are just a local rule inforced by clubs to limit wear and tear on the clubhouse carpet and walk ways, some think that they are better for greens, some think they are worse. I do know that greens seem to be bumpier with softspikes, but there are less big spike marks without them. t** for tat really. For me I know softspikes are more comfortable, my feet hurt less after the round, but I know I probably swung better wearing metal. If I were a pro I would probably wear metal, especailly if the course was hilly or wet.

[Mheav]

I want Zolex spikes!!!!!

[GolfDunnyGolf]

Buddyjay, on Sep 11 2009, 09:10 PM, said:

I agree with all the posters who WANT to bring back metal spikes. I have an average swing speed and I have slipped many times with soft spikes, on flat ground. ESPECIALLY WALKING ON WOODEN STEPS! I got hurt a couple weeks ago slipping on wooden steps. It was like ice skating. Soft spikes clog up too fast with damp grass also. When clogged, they are totally useless.
I bought new Ecco shoes with Scorpion spikes and two months later, I had to replace the spikes. It's not the course that's grinding them down, it's walking on the concrete that does it. Metal spikes have much more gripping power and last much, much longer.
I also see much more "damage" to greens with soft spikes due to people dragging their feet. Metal spikes have 1 prong per spike, where soft spikes can have eight prongs per spike. So the argument that metal spikes are destroying greens is pure bull. I do believe it has more to do with clubhouse floors and shoe company's pushing the higher profit margins of soft spikes.

+1
i TOTTALLY AGREE!!

[dlygrisse]

GolfDunnyGolf, on Sep 17 2009, 06:55 AM, said:

Buddyjay, on Sep 11 2009, 09:10 PM, said:

I agree with all the posters who WANT to bring back metal spikes. I have an average swing speed and I have slipped many times with soft spikes, on flat ground. ESPECIALLY WALKING ON WOODEN STEPS! I got hurt a couple weeks ago slipping on wooden steps. It was like ice skating. Soft spikes clog up too fast with damp grass also. When clogged, they are totally useless.
I bought new Ecco shoes with Scorpion spikes and two months later, I had to replace the spikes. It's not the course that's grinding them down, it's walking on the concrete that does it. Metal spikes have much more gripping power and last much, much longer.
I also see much more "damage" to greens with soft spikes due to people dragging their feet. Metal spikes have 1 prong per spike, where soft spikes can have eight prongs per spike. So the argument that metal spikes are destroying greens is pure bull. I do believe it has more to do with clubhouse floors and shoe company's pushing the higher profit margins of soft spikes.

+1
i TOTTALLY AGREE!!

I worked at a private club when the ban swept the industry circa 1996-97. I remember sitting in a meeting and we were talking about making soft spikes mandatory, this was a big decision and there were a lot of old school people in the room, it came down to the following.
1. Everyone else is doing it, soon it will be the norm not the exception
2. It will save 10's of thousands of dollars in R and M costs for walk ways, carpet, concrete, carts, wooden bridges and general wear and tear.
3. Big debate that they caused less spike marks on the greens. consensus was there were less spike marks especially with the old school soft spikes they had at the time. In hind site greens were smoother overall back then, but there are less big spike marks now.
4. The arguement about the shoe comapanies making more money is false when the ban started, in fact they were slow to react and Soft Spikes is it's own company and just happened to sell a product everyone wanted. The profits the pro shop make were almost zero considering the time a private club spends switching out the members spikes, and the fact since they made it mandatory they sold them for near cost. We did sell a few pair of spikeless shoes but the main money saver was facility damage.

5. We were also worried about the potential threat of lawsuit because soft spikes are more prone to slipping especially on wet sloping hills and wet wooden surfaces. The lawyers had to be called on this one and some signs had to be posted on the course giving appropriate warnings.

[Buddyjay]

I answerd to this thread on Sept 11. On Sept. 15th, I again slipped with clogged soft spikes. I have severly strained my lower back whereas I cannot play golf for about a month! I do NOT have a powerful swing speed. I am 85-90mph. The fairway was damp and after impact, as I was following through, my right foot slipped out and back while my body twisted to the left.
When you swing, you brace with your right leg and when following through, your right foot starts to lift. And that's when the slippage occurs, for me.

Just like another poster commented, the pros may never ban metal spikes since for many, it provides the proper traction they need, especially if the grass is damp/wet.
Also, I read that a course the pros play on may ban metal spikes for you and me but when the pros play there its allowed since the PGA temporarily "owns" that course the week the tournament is on.

[Pondy]

Quote

I want Zolex spikes!!!!!

Agreed... Then we could say "POOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!" from our tippy toes

Actually, I've taken to playing in regular sneakers in nice weather. My reason is that I tend to smash into the ball on tee shots, throwing me out of balance, etc. I currently weigh 250+ and I find that wearing sneakers forces me to be more in control, swing with less force, and a more even tempo.

I readily admit, I am a chitty golfer, but wearing sneakers does help me stay in the swing.

I didn't play back in the metal spikes days, so I can't make a comparison.