[Psycho]

I hit it in a bunker today, tried it hit it out sideways but skulled it so bad the ball went OB(I am HORRIBLE from bunkers),And i raked the bunker before i knew it was OB and after finding out it was OB dropped the ball about where it was. I think it is a two stroke penalty, but i'm not sure. (I found the ball OB After the round)

[kevcarter]

13-4/37 Ball Played from Bunker Is Out of Bounds or Lost; Player Tests Condition of Bunker or Smoothes Footprints Before Dropping Another Ball in Bunker

Q. A player plays from a bunker and his ball comes to rest out of bounds or is lost. He smoothes his footprints in the bunker at the place where he must drop a ball under Rule 27-1 or, before dropping a ball under Rule 27-1, he takes a few practice swings touching the sand in the bunker. Is the player in breach of Rule 13-4?

A. No. The prohibitions in Rule 13-4 apply only when the player's ball is in the hazard or when it has been lifted from a hazard and may be dropped or placed in the hazard. In this case, the player's ball has been played from the hazard rather than lifted.
Furthermore, Exception 2 under Rule 13-4 allows a player, after playing his ball out of a hazard, to smooth sand or soil in the hazard, without restriction. This right overrides any conflicting provisions in other Rules, including Rule 13-2.

[Sawgrass]

kevcarter , on Sep 10 2009, 07:07 PM, said:

13-4/37 Ball Played from Bunker Is Out of Bounds or Lost; Player Tests Condition of Bunker or Smoothes Footprints Before Dropping Another Ball in Bunker

Q. A player plays from a bunker and his ball comes to rest out of bounds or is lost. He smoothes his footprints in the bunker at the place where he must drop a ball under Rule 27-1 or, before dropping a ball under Rule 27-1, he takes a few practice swings touching the sand in the bunker. Is the player in breach of Rule 13-4?

A. No. The prohibitions in Rule 13-4 apply only when the player's ball is in the hazard or when it has been lifted from a hazard and may be dropped or placed in the hazard. In this case, the player's ball has been played from the hazard rather than lifted.
Furthermore, Exception 2 under Rule 13-4 allows a player, after playing his ball out of a hazard, to smooth sand or soil in the hazard, without restriction. This right overrides any conflicting provisions in other Rules, including Rule 13-2.

I know I'm moving this a bit off topic, but I wonder how many people know that if you hit the same bad shot from a fairway and make a big divot, you are not permitted to replace the divot before dropping, while you are permitted to smooth the sand in a bunker before dropping. To make things worse, you're obligated to attempt to drop the ball exactly where it had last been, which is likely to be where the divot hole now resides. (It doesn't have to stay there if it bounces, of course, but you are obligated to attempt to drop it on the spot it previously occupied.) I was so surprised by this realization that I wrote to the USGA about it a few years ago, and sure enough they confirmed that this, which seems to me to be quite an oddity, is accurate.

[kevcarter]

Sawgrass, on Sep 10 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

kevcarter , on Sep 10 2009, 07:07 PM, said:

13-4/37 Ball Played from Bunker Is Out of Bounds or Lost; Player Tests Condition of Bunker or Smoothes Footprints Before Dropping Another Ball in Bunker

Q. A player plays from a bunker and his ball comes to rest out of bounds or is lost. He smoothes his footprints in the bunker at the place where he must drop a ball under Rule 27-1 or, before dropping a ball under Rule 27-1, he takes a few practice swings touching the sand in the bunker. Is the player in breach of Rule 13-4?

A. No. The prohibitions in Rule 13-4 apply only when the player's ball is in the hazard or when it has been lifted from a hazard and may be dropped or placed in the hazard. In this case, the player's ball has been played from the hazard rather than lifted.
Furthermore, Exception 2 under Rule 13-4 allows a player, after playing his ball out of a hazard, to smooth sand or soil in the hazard, without restriction. This right overrides any conflicting provisions in other Rules, including Rule 13-2.

I know I'm moving this a bit off topic, but I wonder how many people know that if you hit the same bad shot from a fairway and make a big divot, you are not permitted to replace the divot before dropping, while you are permitted to smooth the sand in a bunker before dropping. To make things worse, you're obligated to attempt to drop the ball exactly where it had last been, which is likely to be where the divot hole now resides. (It doesn't have to stay there if it bounces, of course, but you are obligated to attempt to drop it on the spot it previously occupied.) I was so surprised by this realization that I wrote to the USGA about it a few years ago, and sure enough they confirmed that this, which seems to me to be quite an oddity, is accurate.

Thanks Sawgrass, I didn't know that one. It's always a good day when you can learn something new!

CHEERS,
Kevin

13-2/4.5 Divots Replaced in Area in Which Ball Is to Be Dropped

Q. A player makes a stroke. He replaces his divot and other divots nearby. He then discovers that his ball is lost or out of bounds. The player must now drop a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which his previous stroke was made — Rule 27-1. In these circumstances, is the player in breach of Rule 13-2, which prohibits improving the area in which a ball is to be dropped by eliminating irregularities of surface by replacing a divot?

A. No. When the player replaced the divots, he was unaware that he would be required to drop a ball in the area. Therefore, in equity (Rule 1-4), he is not penalized.

However, if the player wished to play a provisional ball because he thought his original ball might be lost outside a water hazard or out of bounds, he would be prohibited from replacing his or other divots in the area where he would be dropping the provisional ball.

[Swank]

but your divot will be in front of where your ball lay originally i.e. closer to the hole, no?

so by attempting to drop one where it was wouldn't you be obligated to do so behind and
not in your divot?

[kevcarter]

Swank, on Sep 10 2009, 10:05 PM, said:

but your divot will be in front of where your ball lay originally i.e. closer to the hole, no?

so by attempting to drop one where it was wouldn't you be obligated to do so behind and
not in your divot?

Correct Sir, unless you had hit the first one fat...

Sawgrass is making an EXCELLENT point! Just my opinion...

Kevin

[Sawgrass]

Swank, on Sep 10 2009, 11:05 PM, said:

but your divot will be in front of where your ball lay originally i.e. closer to the hole, no?

so by attempting to drop one where it was wouldn't you be obligated to do so behind and
not in your divot?

Yeah, you're right that if your divot hole is closer to the pin than where your ball originally was you're safe from this problem, even if it bounces forward into the hole you made because you get to re-drop. That's why I said that the place the ball previously played was "likely to be where the divot hole now resides". I should have noted that this "likelyhood" is probably more true for me than others, because I have been known to hit it fat enough to make you cry.

I also should have noted that in my example I presumed you either knew or feared the ball went out of bounds after you hit it, because as Kevin notes, if you replaced the divot unaware that there was a problem this whole oddity doesn't have grounds.

But the bottom line still seems odd to me in that if you were in a fairway bunker and I was on the fairway next to you, and we both hit out of bounds, you could "repair" the surface of the sand, and I couldn't replace my fat divot. Funny, huh?

[kevcarter]

Sawgrass, on Sep 11 2009, 09:19 AM, said:

Swank, on Sep 10 2009, 11:05 PM, said:

but your divot will be in front of where your ball lay originally i.e. closer to the hole, no?

so by attempting to drop one where it was wouldn't you be obligated to do so behind and
not in your divot?

Yeah, you're right that if your divot hole is closer to the pin than where your ball originally was you're safe from this problem, even if it bounces forward into the hole you made because you get to re-drop. That's why I said that the place the ball previously played was "likely to be where the divot hole now resides". I should have noted that this "likelyhood" is probably more true for me than others, because I have been known to hit it fat enough to make you cry.

I also should have noted that in my example I presumed you either knew or feared the ball went out of bounds after you hit it, because as Kevin notes, if you replaced the divot unaware that there was a problem this whole oddity doesn't have grounds.

But the bottom line still seems odd to me in that if you were in a fairway bunker and I was on the fairway next to you, and we both hit out of bounds, you could "repair" the surface of the sand, and I couldn't replace my fat divot. Funny, huh?

That is strange Sawgrass! Things that make you go hmmmmmm.

Kevin

[Swank]

that is weird.....sho nuff.....I would hope something that fat wouldn't have the speed to go OB on you

[Sawgrass]

Swank, on Sep 11 2009, 10:37 AM, said:

that is weird.....sho nuff.....I would hope something that fat wouldn't have the speed to go OB on you

I know what you mean, but the O.B. can be to the side rather than deep. That was the situation that got me to write to the USGA in the first place. Sadly, just because you hit it fat doesn't mean you didn't shank it too. And now you've depressed me!

[johnscottsdale]

Say you hit it OB from a bunker and properly take a drop. Do you have to play the next shot out of what would most likely be a fried egg lie?

[kevcarter]

johnscottsdale, on Sep 11 2009, 09:56 AM, said:

Say you hit it OB from a bunker and properly take a drop. Do you have to play the next shot out of what would most likely be a fried egg lie?

Oh yeah, that's the not so fun part!

Kevin

[Psycho]

Actually, i did get a fried egg lie when i dropped in the bunker, Took me two more strokes to get out. (I have a horrible time with bunkers.)

[sigmapete1]

Just to clarify, if Ihit OB from the fairway (or rough for that matter), I HAVE to drop the ball INTO the divot I just made?! Would I be penalized if I dropped it 3 inches behind the divot? That seems unnecessarily penal to me. Not saying its wrong, just saying it really sucks!

[Sawgrass]

sigmapete1, on Sep 14 2009, 01:24 PM, said:

Just to clarify, if Ihit OB from the fairway (or rough for that matter), I HAVE to drop the ball INTO the divot I just made?! Would I be penalized if I dropped it 3 inches behind the divot? That seems unnecessarily penal to me. Not saying its wrong, just saying it really sucks!

You have to attempt to drop the ball precisely on the last spot it occupied. If that's where a divot hole is, that's where you must attempt to drop it. It is likely to bounce away, and if it bounces and stops closer to the pin, you have to drop again. BTW, while it's your obligation to attempt to drop it in the divot hole if the divot hole marks the ball's last position, it essentially becomes an honor system issue, since to answer your specific question no one on earth could tell if your attempt was 3 inches back. But I like to play strictlly by the rules, so I do attempt to drop it where it was. I've been lucky so far, and avoided the hole. (Not that I've really had that many opportunities!) I do agree with you though that it's too penal. And when you add that to the fact that no one can tell if a competitor is really doing it right, I wish they would just allow you to repair the hole as you can repair the bunker sand damage. I'll tell them that as soon as they ask me!

[Psycho]

What if i can't tell the exact spot the was at? Should i just try to get it close as possible? I'm asking because when i raked the bunker i removed the mark in the sand where i hit the ball. I dropped it where i thought it was, but i'm not sure it was correct.


EDIT: Typos

[Sawgrass]

Psycho, on Sep 14 2009, 11:07 PM, said:

What if i can't tell the exact spot the was at? Should i just try to get it close as possible? I'm asking because when i raked the bunker i removed the mark in the sand where i hit the ball. I dropped it where i thought it was, but i'm not sure it was correct.


EDIT: Typos

20-3 c says you "did good".

[QWKDTSN]

I have hit a tee shot into a bunker (actually a greenside bunker from a nearby par 3.... it was a duck hooked long iron... LOL). The ball was sitting up nicely in the bunker and I merely had a nice smooth SW down to my own green.

Trying to pick the ball out I skulled my bunker shot over the green by a mile and OB. I got pissed.

Took a drop and it immediately fried egged. I had no chance of hitting any kind of decent shot out of the lie my drop from shoulder-height gave me. I got REALLY pissed. LOL!