[mdgboxx]

For the longest time, I've been seeing/hearing about a ruling permitting you to move back as much as two club lenghts from the tee markers. I can't seem to find such a rule anywhere, does it really exist or is it one of those UNWRITTEN RULES that everyone applies such as the ever popular Mulligan?

Can anyone clue me in on this?

[OpusX20]

mdgboxx, on Aug 8 2009, 10:31 PM, said:

For the longest time, I've been seeing/hearing about a ruling permitting you to move back as much as two club lenghts from the tee markers. I can't seem to find such a rule anywhere, does it really exist or is it one of those UNWRITTEN RULES that everyone applies such as the ever popular Mulligan?

Can anyone clue me in on this?

The answer can be found in the definitions section of the Rules...

Teeing Ground

The “teeing ground’’ is the starting place for the hole to be played. It is

a rectangular area two club-lengths in depth, the front and the sides of

which are defined by the outside limits of two tee-markers.A ball is

outside the teeing ground when all of it lies outside the teeing ground.


Hope that helps.

[Shanks For The Memories]

True: You're allowed 2 club lengths, with your longest club in the bag I believe, or maybe the driver.

The mulligan is not a rule at all, it's illegal. Just like a "foot wedge", it's a weekend golfer's term. The two club lengths rule is a real one.

[generalbolg]

just to add, the "teeing ground" is not restricted to the formal tee box. take this example: i was playing in a tourny a little while back, and the tee box on a par 3 was horrendous. huge divots everywhere, plus it was sloped like crazy. I pulled out my driver, measured two lengths, and teed my ball up in the rough in back of the physical tee box. moral of the story, the legal "teeing ground" is not restricted by course design, it can go outside what ever tee boxes they built.

[mdgboxx]

generalbolg, on Aug 8 2009, 11:53 PM, said:

just to add, the "teeing ground" is not restricted to the formal tee box. take this example: i was playing in a tourny a little while back, and the tee box on a par 3 was horrendous. huge divots everywhere, plus it was sloped like crazy. I pulled out my driver, measured two lengths, and teed my ball up in the rough in back of the physical tee box. moral of the story, the legal "teeing ground" is not restricted by course design, it can go outside what ever tee boxes they built.

NOW I'm really puzzled...Is that for real?

[dhabomb]

generalbolg, on Aug 8 2009, 08:53 PM, said:

just to add, the "teeing ground" is not restricted to the formal tee box. take this example: i was playing in a tourny a little while back, and the tee box on a par 3 was horrendous. huge divots everywhere, plus it was sloped like crazy. I pulled out my driver, measured two lengths, and teed my ball up in the rough in back of the physical tee box. moral of the story, the legal "teeing ground" is not restricted by course design, it can go outside what ever tee boxes they built.

 I think that would be considered illegal. Because th teeing ground is the distance between the markers + two club lengths back.

[hogan64]

dhabomb, on Aug 8 2009, 11:19 PM, said:

generalbolg, on Aug 8 2009, 08:53 PM, said:

just to add, the "teeing ground" is not restricted to the formal tee box. take this example: i was playing in a tourny a little while back, and the tee box on a par 3 was horrendous. huge divots everywhere, plus it was sloped like crazy. I pulled out my driver, measured two lengths, and teed my ball up in the rough in back of the physical tee box. moral of the story, the legal "teeing ground" is not restricted by course design, it can go outside what ever tee boxes they built.

I think that would be considered illegal. Because th teeing ground is the distance between the markers + two club lengths back.

That is exactly what he is saying, two club lengths back and inside the markers. Good to go.

[kevcarter]

dhabomb, on Aug 8 2009, 11:19 PM, said:

generalbolg, on Aug 8 2009, 08:53 PM, said:

just to add, the "teeing ground" is not restricted to the formal tee box. take this example: i was playing in a tourny a little while back, and the tee box on a par 3 was horrendous. huge divots everywhere, plus it was sloped like crazy. I pulled out my driver, measured two lengths, and teed my ball up in the rough in back of the physical tee box. moral of the story, the legal "teeing ground" is not restricted by course design, it can go outside what ever tee boxes they built.

 I think that would be considered illegal. Because th teeing ground is the distance between the markers + two club lengths back.

The player stayed within the two club lengths. No problem there.

Kevin

[mdgboxx]

Kevin2, on Aug 9 2009, 12:24 AM, said:

dhabomb, on Aug 8 2009, 11:19 PM, said:

generalbolg, on Aug 8 2009, 08:53 PM, said:

just to add, the "teeing ground" is not restricted to the formal tee box. take this example: i was playing in a tourny a little while back, and the tee box on a par 3 was horrendous. huge divots everywhere, plus it was sloped like crazy. I pulled out my driver, measured two lengths, and teed my ball up in the rough in back of the physical tee box. moral of the story, the legal "teeing ground" is not restricted by course design, it can go outside what ever tee boxes they built.

I think that would be considered illegal. Because th teeing ground is the distance between the markers + two club lengths back.

The player stayed within the two club lengths. No problem there.

Kevin

Am I getting this right?

The teeing ground is two club lenghts in depth from the tips of the markers, if I add two club lenghts to that I am now FOUR club lenghts from the said markers...I'm not stupid, just more and more confused

[mcmski]

the invisible rectangle that is the teeing ground is made up by the line that is formed by the tee markers and two club lengths back (farther from the hole) at a 90 degree angle from the original line on both sides as well as the back line that would be formed by the ends of the second club length.

[Tighthead]

mdgboxx, on Aug 8 2009, 09:38 PM, said:

Kevin2, on Aug 9 2009, 12:24 AM, said:

dhabomb, on Aug 8 2009, 11:19 PM, said:

generalbolg, on Aug 8 2009, 08:53 PM, said:

just to add, the "teeing ground" is not restricted to the formal tee box. take this example: i was playing in a tourny a little while back, and the tee box on a par 3 was horrendous. huge divots everywhere, plus it was sloped like crazy. I pulled out my driver, measured two lengths, and teed my ball up in the rough in back of the physical tee box. moral of the story, the legal "teeing ground" is not restricted by course design, it can go outside what ever tee boxes they built.

I think that would be considered illegal. Because th teeing ground is the distance between the markers + two club lengths back.

The player stayed within the two club lengths. No problem there.

Kevin

Am I getting this right?

The teeing ground is two club lenghts in depth from the tips of the markers, if I add two club lenghts to that I am now FOUR club lenghts from the said markers...I'm not stupid, just more and more confused

He was within two club lengths of the markers. There was never an additional two club lengths.

[AAL]

The official teeing area is rectangular in shape, and is defined by the "outside" of the tee markers with the two club length measured straight back from the front surface (hole side) of the tee markers, not from the rear surface of the tee markers. The longest legal club (currently 48" for drivers, putters can be longer) is allowed to be used to measure this. The final location of the teed up ball must remain within the width of the teeing area as defined by the outside surface of the tee markers.

Note: the use of a "Long" putter for the two-club rule is allowed (http://golf.about.com/cs/rulesofgolf/a/rulefaq_lengths.htm) since the rules of golf doesn't prohibit the use of this club for this purpose. So, a long putter that is longer than a driver can be used.

[Sawgrass]

It is quite amazing how much confusion exists before a hole is even started. Now take a swing and let's see what happens next!

[kyler6733]

I might have to play a 6 foot putter because this could come in handy!

[tpariff]

While we're on the subject of the teeing ground, it should also be noted that you can tee the ball within the teeing ground and stand OUTSIDE the teeing ground. I've seen people try to call it a rules violation.

Kevin

[HeadonaStick]

mdgboxx, on Aug 9 2009, 12:38 AM, said:

Kevin2, on Aug 9 2009, 12:24 AM, said:

dhabomb, on Aug 8 2009, 11:19 PM, said:

generalbolg, on Aug 8 2009, 08:53 PM, said:

just to add, the "teeing ground" is not restricted to the formal tee box. take this example: i was playing in a tourny a little while back, and the tee box on a par 3 was horrendous. huge divots everywhere, plus it was sloped like crazy. I pulled out my driver, measured two lengths, and teed my ball up in the rough in back of the physical tee box. moral of the story, the legal "teeing ground" is not restricted by course design, it can go outside what ever tee boxes they built.

I think that would be considered illegal. Because th teeing ground is the distance between the markers + two club lengths back.

The player stayed within the two club lengths. No problem there.

Kevin

Am I getting this right?

The teeing ground is two club lenghts in depth from the tips of the markers, if I add two club lenghts to that I am now FOUR club lenghts from the said markers...I'm not stupid, just more and more confused

The Tee Markers mark the front corners of the rectangle. If you place a club touching the marker and measure back away from the direction of play two lengths you get the rear corners of the box.

What generalbolg is saying is that the rectangle does not have to lie within the tightly mowed "tee box" but may extend behind the mowed area.

[Shanks For The Memories]

I believe that the ball only has to touch the "teeing area" as defined above too. So, if you place it right on the line, with just about 1/4 of the ball inside of the teeing ground, I believe that's legal too.

[mdgboxx]

HeadonaStick, on Aug 9 2009, 11:10 PM, said:

mdgboxx, on Aug 9 2009, 12:38 AM, said:

Kevin2, on Aug 9 2009, 12:24 AM, said:

dhabomb, on Aug 8 2009, 11:19 PM, said:

generalbolg, on Aug 8 2009, 08:53 PM, said:

just to add, the "teeing ground" is not restricted to the formal tee box. take this example: i was playing in a tourny a little while back, and the tee box on a par 3 was horrendous. huge divots everywhere, plus it was sloped like crazy. I pulled out my driver, measured two lengths, and teed my ball up in the rough in back of the physical tee box. moral of the story, the legal "teeing ground" is not restricted by course design, it can go outside what ever tee boxes they built.

I think that would be considered illegal. Because th teeing ground is the distance between the markers + two club lengths back.

The player stayed within the two club lengths. No problem there.

Kevin

Am I getting this right?

The teeing ground is two club lenghts in depth from the tips of the markers, if I add two club lenghts to that I am now FOUR club lenghts from the said markers...I'm not stupid, just more and more confused

The Tee Markers mark the front corners of the rectangle. If you place a club touching the marker and measure back away from the direction of play two lengths you get the rear corners of the box.

What generalbolg is saying is that the rectangle does not have to lie within the tightly mowed "tee box" but may extend behind the mowed area.

I was so confused and trying so hard to understand (and didn't), I PM'd generalbolg and this is exactly what he said:
With the added two clubs lenght from the MARKERS, he was in the rough past the tighly mowed area. I "finally" got it!
Thank you so much...

[generalbolg]

just to clarify: it doesnt matter what your lie is. as long as your ball is teed up between the tee markers and within 2 club lengths deep of the line drawn between the tee markers, youre ok.

sometimes courses will place the tee markers at the way back of the tee box area, sometimes with only a few feet between the tee markers and the rough/end of closely mown tee box area. despite the fact that there is only a few feet of closely mown tee box area, the official teeing area extends two club lengths deep, potentially into the rough.

in the situation i casually explained above, the tee markers were all the way at the back of the tee box. there was about 3 feet of fairway length grass to work with. none of this grass was great to hit off of or stand on. it was pretty chopped up, and slanted with the wind (ball a wee bit below my feet, wind left to right.). the rough in back of the tee box was freshly cut and not too bad, plus the ground was flat. i pulled my driver, measured two club lengths back and marked it with a tee. i teed my ball up in the rough in front of that tee, hit my shot. result wasnt bad.

all that matters is if you tee up your ball in a rectangle thats width is equal to the distance between the tee markers, and width equal to 2 club lengths (doesnt matter what club).

[Hateto3Putt]

As they say, a picture is worth 1,000 of something....

[Mike_C]

tpariff, on Aug 9 2009, 11:08 PM, said:

While we're on the subject of the teeing ground, it should also be noted that you can tee the ball within the teeing ground and stand OUTSIDE the teeing ground. I've seen people try to call it a rules violation.

Kevin

Yeah, I do that all the time, as long at the ground is flat on the side of the tee box. Good for getting a better angle on a dogleg with trees, etc.... I tee it up just inside the the left tee marker.

[Sawgrass]

Hateto3Putt, on Sep 24 2009, 06:33 AM, said:

As they say, a picture is worth 1,000 of something....

Hateto3Putt,

I'm curious as to where you got that illustration. I believe it is incorrect. The USGA defines the teeing ground as follows:

Teeing Ground
The "teeing ground" is the starting place for the hole to be played. It is a rectangular area two club-lengths in depth, the front and the sides of which are defined by the outside limits of two tee-markers. A ball is outside the teeing ground when all of it lies outside the teeing ground.

The illustration implies that the two club length depth starts at the back of the tee markers rather than from the front edge, or "outside limit" of the tee marker. Since some tee markers are oddly shaped, the length of the tee marker itself can be a significant portion of the two club lengths allowed for placing the ball.

[kevcarter]

Sawgrass, on Sep 24 2009, 08:36 AM, said:

The illustration implies that the two club length depth starts at the back of the tee markers rather than from the front edge, or "outside limit" of the tee marker. Since some tee markers are oddly shaped, the length of the tee marker itself can be a significant portion of the two club lengths allowed for placing the ball.

Sawgrass,

That's a great point and one I hadn't thought of. I've always checked two club lengths from the back of the marker. The way the rule is written it needs to be measured from the front of it. Good catch!

Kevin

[Hateto3Putt]

Sawgrass, on Sep 24 2009, 09:36 AM, said:

Hateto3Putt,

I'm curious as to where you got that illustration. I believe it is incorrect.

I got it HERE.

Maybe this ones better.....

Of course, that one shows it a little wider than it should be..... I guess the Internet just ain't what it used to be....

[AzPGAPro]

Oh yes, it exists under the definition of "Teeing Ground." Page 16 in the Rules of Golf.

[Sawgrass]

Funny comment about the "aged Internet" Hateto3Putt. Now that so many people can "publish" their writings, I guess it's never been more true that you shouldn't believe everything you read.

This whole two club length issue is kind of funny in itself, given the fact that I very often see people tee up in front of the markers, but I don't think I've even once in my life seen someone tee it up a full two club lengths behind them. (So, kevcarter, I'm guessing that you probably have been historically safe in your placement of the ball.)

[Hateto3Putt]

It seems like most guys like to tee it up not behind, but exactly on the line of the markers.

Watch people next time your waiting to tee off. It's amazing. I'll betcha 70% or more tee the ball, not behind the markers, but between them.

Like this guy....

[mjtoal]

tpariff, on Aug 10 2009, 04:08 AM, said:

While we're on the subject of the teeing ground, it should also be noted that you can tee the ball within the teeing ground and stand OUTSIDE the teeing ground. I've seen people try to call it a rules violation.

Kevin

I like to tee up on the left side, so I do this about 5 or 6 times a round.

[mdgboxx]

generalbolg, on Sep 23 2009, 09:20 PM, said:

just to clarify: it doesnt matter what your lie is. as long as your ball is teed up between the tee markers and within 2 club lengths deep of the line drawn between the tee markers, youre ok.

sometimes courses will place the tee markers at the way back of the tee box area, sometimes with only a few feet between the tee markers and the rough/end of closely mown tee box area. despite the fact that there is only a few feet of closely mown tee box area, the official teeing area extends two club lengths deep, potentially into the rough.

in the situation i casually explained above, the tee markers were all the way at the back of the tee box. there was about 3 feet of fairway length grass to work with. none of this grass was great to hit off of or stand on. it was pretty chopped up, and slanted with the wind (ball a wee bit below my feet, wind left to right.). the rough in back of the tee box was freshly cut and not too bad, plus the ground was flat. i pulled my driver, measured two club lengths back and marked it with a tee. i teed my ball up in the rough in front of that tee, hit my shot. result wasnt bad.

all that matters is if you tee up your ball in a rectangle thats width is equal to the distance between the tee markers, and width equal to 2 club lengths (doesnt matter what club).

Thank you, I PM'd Aug 16, and then forgot about the thread until we had a "heated" discussion about it at the club a few days ago. Only then did I remember not having the courtesy of acknowleging it on the open thread. For that, I apologize. The best part of it is, now that I am no longer confused, I find this thread interesting and somewhat funny

[mihi4]

Hateto3Putt, on Sep 24 2009, 04:36 PM, said:

It seems like most guys like to tee it up not behind, but exactly on the line of the markers.
Watch people next time your waiting to tee off. It's amazing. I'll betcha 70% or more tee the ball, not behind the markers, but between them.

Which is perfectly within the rules, as long as the ball is behind the front "edge" (on a round marker *G*).

I usually decide where to put my tee, depending on:

1.) given hazards at the landing zone (I always tee up on the side, where the hazard is located)

2.) conditions of the ground/grass

If possible, I use the flattest piece of ground I can find, so the ball is not above or below my feet. If this piece is at the front part of the teeing ground, the better for me

greetings
michi

[turbo4door]

You guys must play some pretty ratty courses. I can't remember the last time the ground was uneven, or hacked up bad enough to deter my tee placement. I place it as far forward as I can, just because I hit it so short ...lol

[EnglishBob]

Muni Golf...sometimes your lucky to find grass within 2 club lengths, especially if we get some wet weather here.

[mdgboxx]

EnglishBob, on Oct 2 2009, 09:14 PM, said:

Muni Golf...sometimes your lucky to find grass within 2 club lengths, especially if we get some wet weather here.

It is a shame but, I must agree with you. Too many public clubs want to see your dough not your show of etiquette/proper behavior.