[ClarkGrswld4]

-20 won the US Senior Open today

[ClarkGrswld4]

yeah but the everyday PGA Tour event winner often goes -20....the USGA does not like their opens to be -20...in fact it has never happened to my knowledge..not even close

[SpartyOn1982]

Must of been playing a course at 5000 yards or so. Ladies tees for the old guys!
J/K!

[golferboy73]

I kind of doubt it. The USGA set up the Open themselves, so if they didn't like it they have only themselves to blame.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

SpartyOn1982, on Aug 2 2009, 07:18 PM, said:

Must of been playing a course at 5000 yards or so. Ladies tees for the old guys!
J/K!

Sparty, I know you were JK, but actually I saw in this mornings paper that Crooked Stick was playing 7300 for the Seniors, now unless that's a misprint, I was shocked that a Senior event, Major or not would be that long. I think the Buick course was "only" 7100. Pretty ironic if those numbers were accurate.

[Rohlio]

Carolina Golfer 2, on Aug 2 2009, 07:09 PM, said:

Sparty, I know you were JK, but actually I saw in this mornings paper that Crooked Stick was playing 7300 for the Seniors, now unless that's a misprint, I was shocked that a Senior event, Major or not would be that long. I think the Buick course was "only" 7100. Pretty ironic if those numbers were accurate.

According to Fred Funk it was playing way shorter than yardage...he said he was regularly getting drives rolling out over 290, If Fred Funk is hitting em 290, the course is playing fast in the fairways.

I watched a bunch of that tournament, looked like a pretty cup cake setup as far as fairway width and Rough height to me.

My inner conspiracy theorist says they set it up intentionally to justify the groove change "We can't have opens being won at -20!!!"...Next year I expect them to set it up as hard as possible. "See we changed the grooves and now it was won at Even par, Yay USGA!"
"

[SpartyOn1982]

Carolina Golfer 2, on Aug 2 2009, 07:09 PM, said:

SpartyOn1982, on Aug 2 2009, 07:18 PM, said:

Must of been playing a course at 5000 yards or so. Ladies tees for the old guys!
J/K!

Sparty, I know you were JK, but actually I saw in this mornings paper that Crooked Stick was playing 7300 for the Seniors, now unless that's a misprint, I was shocked that a Senior event, Major or not would be that long. I think the Buick course was "only" 7100. Pretty ironic if those numbers were accurate.

Wow! I had no idea that the course they were playing was that long. That is extremely long for a Senior tour course or at least would assume that it would be.(Not joking)

Question is can you attribute it to the grooves being the culprit or are our Senior players using steroids?

[IUbball23]

I was at The Stick today watching, and seeing Loren Roberts tear the place a new one... (he was -9 thru 13 today!). Having been an employee at the course for the past 5 years I was shocked at the setup and how it seemed the USGA wanted the boys to go DEEP. The course is NOT that easy, and as stupid as it sounds I kind of took it a little personally with how bad these guys beat it up, the winning score of an Open should be around -4 at most (in my eyes). As soon as I got there today I noticed that the first 4 pins I saw looked like Thursday placements at any run of the mill tournament, not Sunday pins at the US Open. Don't get me wrong it was fun seeing the guys play as well as they did, and Funk is just awesome to be around, as well as Watson and Roberts. The US Open just shouldn't be won at -20 ever in my eyes. Crooked Stick is better than that, and yes I am VERY biased I know.

[ClarkGrswld4]

all I'm gonna say is that I would not want to play next year's set up

[MCCA]

USGA can be pissed all all they want. The Buick event tiger hit a lot of long irons & 5 woods so i don't thing grooves impacted his score.

[ClarkGrswld4]

MCCA, on Aug 2 2009, 07:58 PM, said:

USGA can be pissed all all they want. The Buick event tiger hit a lot of long irons & 5 woods so i don't thing grooves impacted his score.

because he was hitting it short off the tee...the longest par 4 this week was only 460 yards

[rymail00]

Rohlio, on Aug 2 2009, 08:15 PM, said:

Carolina Golfer 2, on Aug 2 2009, 07:09 PM, said:

Sparty, I know you were JK, but actually I saw in this mornings paper that Crooked Stick was playing 7300 for the Seniors, now unless that's a misprint, I was shocked that a Senior event, Major or not would be that long. I think the Buick course was "only" 7100. Pretty ironic if those numbers were accurate.

According to Fred Funk it was playing way shorter than yardage...he said he was regularly getting drives rolling out over 290, If Fred Funk is hitting em 290, the course is playing fast in the fairways.

I watched a bunch of that tournament, looked like a pretty cup cake setup as far as fairway width and Rough height to me.

My inner conspiracy theorist says they set it up intentionally to justify the groove change "We can't have opens being won at -20!!!"...Next year I expect them to set it up as hard as possible. "See we changed the grooves and now it was won at Even par, Yay USGA!"
"

GREAT point here. I never thought of it that before, this seems to make the most sence.

[masterli]

IUbball23, on Aug 2 2009, 07:23 PM, said:

I was at The Stick today watching, and seeing Loren Roberts tear the place a new one... (he was -9 thru 13 today!). Having been an employee at the course for the past 5 years I was shocked at the setup and how it seemed the USGA wanted the boys to go DEEP. The course is NOT that easy, and as stupid as it sounds I kind of took it a little personally with how bad these guys beat it up, the winning score of an Open should be around -4 at most (in my eyes). As soon as I got there today I noticed that the first 4 pins I saw looked like Thursday placements at any run of the mill tournament, not Sunday pins at the US Open. Don't get me wrong it was fun seeing the guys play as well as they did, and Funk is just awesome to be around, as well as Watson and Roberts. The US Open just shouldn't be won at -20 ever in my eyes. Crooked Stick is better than that, and yes I am VERY biased I know.

cool to get some insight from someone who knows the place well. while i don't get hung up on the winning score, even on tv it didn't seem like a typical us open. usually you think of small margins of error for your shots and a little more defensive golf. it seemed like people were able to attack the golf course from both the tee and approach shots. guess this confirms it.

count me in to the conspiracy theorists to make the groove rule look good. lol, it makes too much sense.

[shankapotamus]

IUbball23, on Aug 2 2009, 08:23 PM, said:

I was at The Stick today watching, and seeing Loren Roberts tear the place a new one... (he was -9 thru 13 today!). Having been an employee at the course for the past 5 years I was shocked at the setup and how it seemed the USGA wanted the boys to go DEEP. The course is NOT that easy, and as stupid as it sounds I kind of took it a little personally with how bad these guys beat it up, the winning score of an Open should be around -4 at most (in my eyes). As soon as I got there today I noticed that the first 4 pins I saw looked like Thursday placements at any run of the mill tournament, not Sunday pins at the US Open. Don't get me wrong it was fun seeing the guys play as well as they did, and Funk is just awesome to be around, as well as Watson and Roberts. The US Open just shouldn't be won at -20 ever in my eyes. Crooked Stick is better than that, and yes I am VERY biased I know.

I was there too, Fast wide fairways, soft greens and no wind = low scores. The
Stick is a 2nd shot course and the players tore it up with short irons. The
course is visually intimidating but that was about it. Funk did'nt have a 3
putt all week.

[adstout]

I was at the course on saturday watching these guys tear it up. I read an article in the Star about the change in technology. First, these "seniors" can bomb it off the tee. The fairways were ridiculously hard which got them a ton of roll. Even if they ran it into the rough they were close enough on most holes to get a short iron from the rough close.

Ten fifteen years ago when Daly won on this course, he was hitting tee shots 290. Now thats average for the champions tour. Give credit to Funk though, i was watching in person and he was hitting some amazing shots.

[Ben D]

During NBC's coverage yesterday, one of their commentator's explained some of it with one observation. He commented that all four par 5's were being played at par 5, instead of one or two at par 4 which surprised him. That is 4 or 8 strokes plus Fred's spread of 6 over the field and it would have seemed more reasonable at second place scoring -6 or -10. Fred's performance with a finishing spread of -6 over the field is astounding and happened to the right guy, IMO.

[dpark]

ClarkGrswld4, on Aug 2 2009, 04:01 PM, said:

yeah but the everyday PGA Tour event winner often goes -20....the USGA does not like their opens to be -20...in fact it has never happened to my knowledge..not even close

The prior USGA Senior Open record was -17 set by Hale Irwin

Most Strokes Under Par, 72 Holes
17 — Hale Irwin, Saucon Valley C.C. (Old Course), Bethlehem, Pa., 2000
14 — Gary Player, Brooklawn C.C., Fairfield, Conn., 1987
14 — Simon Hobday, Pinehurst (N.C.) R. & C.C. (No. 2), 1994
14 — Bruce Fleisher, Saucon Valley C.C., Bethlehem, Pa., 2000

Fred's -20 is awesome, but it isn't like no one had been in double-digit red figures before

Even guys who didn't win have gone into double-digit red figures:

Lowest Score By Non-Winner
270 (14 under) — Bruce Fleisher (64-69-67-70), Saucon Valley C.C. (Old Course), Bethlehem, Pa., 2000
272 (12 under) — Tom Kite (72-65-66-69), Saucon Valley C.C. (Old Course), Bethlehem, Pa., 2000
273 (11 under) — Hale Irwin (71-67-67-68), Bellerive C.C., St. Louis, Mo., 2004

The US Senior Open isn't the US Open. They don't protect par like the do in the US Open.

[ClarkGrswld4]

dpark, on Aug 3 2009, 02:24 PM, said:

ClarkGrswld4, on Aug 2 2009, 04:01 PM, said:

yeah but the everyday PGA Tour event winner often goes -20....the USGA does not like their opens to be -20...in fact it has never happened to my knowledge..not even close

The prior USGA Senior Open record was -17 set by Hale Irwin

Most Strokes Under Par, 72 Holes
17 — Hale Irwin, Saucon Valley C.C. (Old Course), Bethlehem, Pa., 2000
14 — Gary Player, Brooklawn C.C., Fairfield, Conn., 1987
14 — Simon Hobday, Pinehurst (N.C.) R. & C.C. (No. 2), 1994
14 — Bruce Fleisher, Saucon Valley C.C., Bethlehem, Pa., 2000

Fred's -20 is awesome, but it isn't like no one had been in double-digit red figures before

Even guys who didn't win have gone into double-digit red figures:

Lowest Score By Non-Winner
270 (14 under) — Bruce Fleisher (64-69-67-70), Saucon Valley C.C. (Old Course), Bethlehem, Pa., 2000
272 (12 under) — Tom Kite (72-65-66-69), Saucon Valley C.C. (Old Course), Bethlehem, Pa., 2000
273 (11 under) — Hale Irwin (71-67-67-68), Bellerive C.C., St. Louis, Mo., 2004

The US Senior Open isn't the US Open. They don't protect par like the do in the US Open.

wow, good info...I'm pretty surprised...thanks for posting this

[indyplayer]

I was there for all four rounds and was a little shocked at the setup. The 12 holes was playing around 305 on Sunday, most of the guys I watched drove the green. Alot of the holes had the pins in easy placement that did require them to carry over trouble, just bounce them in.

It was fun to see them attack the course, but it should be a tougher challenge for them. The BWM will be held there in 2012, they must do something to make it tougher.

Just my thoughts.

[dpark]

ClarkGrswld4, on Aug 3 2009, 04:56 PM, said:

dpark, on Aug 3 2009, 02:24 PM, said:

ClarkGrswld4, on Aug 2 2009, 04:01 PM, said:

yeah but the everyday PGA Tour event winner often goes -20....the USGA does not like their opens to be -20...in fact it has never happened to my knowledge..not even close

The prior USGA Senior Open record was -17 set by Hale Irwin

Most Strokes Under Par, 72 Holes
17 — Hale Irwin, Saucon Valley C.C. (Old Course), Bethlehem, Pa., 2000
14 — Gary Player, Brooklawn C.C., Fairfield, Conn., 1987
14 — Simon Hobday, Pinehurst (N.C.) R. & C.C. (No. 2), 1994
14 — Bruce Fleisher, Saucon Valley C.C., Bethlehem, Pa., 2000

Fred's -20 is awesome, but it isn't like no one had been in double-digit red figures before

Even guys who didn't win have gone into double-digit red figures:

Lowest Score By Non-Winner
270 (14 under) — Bruce Fleisher (64-69-67-70), Saucon Valley C.C. (Old Course), Bethlehem, Pa., 2000
272 (12 under) — Tom Kite (72-65-66-69), Saucon Valley C.C. (Old Course), Bethlehem, Pa., 2000
273 (11 under) — Hale Irwin (71-67-67-68), Bellerive C.C., St. Louis, Mo., 2004

The US Senior Open isn't the US Open. They don't protect par like the do in the US Open.

wow, good info...I'm pretty surprised...thanks for posting this

You are most welcome The USGA does a great job of posting all records associated with their championships on the relevant site. In this case http://www.ussenioro...ry/records.html. Sometimes you just need to know where to look

[gtowngolfer]

Yea the usga should be embarrassed. My nextdoor neighbor was 11 under thru 36. hahaha