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Copy- cat clubs


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#1 clangille

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 09:43 PM

I'd like to upgrade my irons from the one's that came with my "starter" set I got back in 02'. I don't have the cash for the high end irons and was turned on to a fellow who is renowned here locally for his clones clubs. Anyone have any experience (good or bad) with clones? I've heard there is no difference from some people and have heard they stink from other people.  

bobscustomclubs


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#2 adam_mac84

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 09:54 PM

waay back in the day i played some ping eye2 knockoffs.  i didn't know any difference between clubs then, worked just fine for me i guess

#3 bunana3

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 09:55 PM

Is that you Bob?

#4 Geo

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 10:16 PM

Hmmm, interesting.  A first post asking about knockoff clubs.  Moreover, the post describes someone as "renowned here locally for his copy-cat clubs" which is about the same as describing someone as being "the most reputable frauds in the area."  But my personal favorite part is that the OP lists his location as Philly, but the IP puts him in Delaware...same place as his boy Bob.  

Is it me, or does something smell, sound, and act like a duck? :fool:
:hi:

#5 bunana3

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 10:57 PM

I hear quacking


#6 robb01

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 09:16 AM

They should work okay, I'd get fitted for them though

#7 clangille

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 11:09 AM

I AM NOT BOB. This is my first post because I joined the forum to get some feedback on knock-off clubs. I am new at golf,which is why I'm even considering knock-off clubs. Yes, Bob is in Delaware and I am in the suburbs of Philly. What does that mean? If I was Bob, why would I care about what type of experiences people have had with knock-offs? Wouldn't I just be trying to sell you something? C'mon guys

#8 Flopadopolous

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 11:19 AM

knock off clubs are absolutely terrible, IMO. Why don't you save up your money to buy real clubs, or buy a set of nice used clubs.

#9 B-Man

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 11:46 AM

View Postadam_mac84, on Jul 23 2009, 09:54 PM, said:

waay back in the day i played some ping eye2 knockoffs.  i didn't know any difference between clubs then, worked just fine for me i guess

Same here. In fact I won a club championship with them. Can't argue with that.

#10 Solutions Etcetera

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 12:25 PM

View Postdrewlbk5231, on Jul 24 2009, 09:19 AM, said:

knock off clubs are absolutely terrible
I don't know about that. Many years ago I had a set of knock offs made up for me by a clubfitter a friend turned me on to. The were "Gallery" heads; a Big Bertha design without the bore through hosel. I think I paid about 200 bucks for 'em; real Callaways were closer to 800 at the time.

They were ok. I played better with them than the old Lynx Tour USA blades I had at the time. But when they were stolen (along with the car whose trunk they were in) I bought real Callaways and there was a significant difference.

With the deals that can be had via the internet now-a-days, I would be inclined to agree with the other advice here and suggest you find a closeout or a used set of real OEM clubs.


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#11 kmoff77

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 12:29 PM

I think there is a difference between clone (copycat) and knockoffs.  Knockoffs are clubs that say Taylormade, Callaway, etc but are fakes.  Copycats are just that, no name brands that are designed to look like the OEMs.  Most people will say that the knockoffs are junk.  I personally play copycats right now and can beat most of my friends who all play major brands.

#12 clangille

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 01:11 PM

Okay. These would be clones then. Here is the picture of the cloned Ping Rapture iron.

Posted Image

#13 Terpman

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 01:24 PM

My experience with clones is limited to irons and my impression of them is very favorable.  I have two sons playing clone irons--one a set of cloned Cobra S-9s and the other a set of clone Callaway X-20s.  I am particularly impressed by the Cobra clones.  Ask your "locally renowned" club builder for a sample 6-iron to take on the course with you next time you play and see for yourself how it feels and performs.

Edited by Terpman, 24 July 2009 - 01:24 PM.


#14 Johwak121

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 01:43 PM

View Postclangille, on Jul 24 2009, 02:11 PM, said:

Okay. These would be clones then. Here is the picture of the cloned Ping Rapture iron.

Posted Image


I would have never guessed....Capture is close enough to Rapture ROTFLOL

#15 mookie

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 02:20 AM

View Postkmoff77, on Jul 24 2009, 09:29 AM, said:

I think there is a difference between clone (copycat) and knockoffs.  Knockoffs are clubs that say Taylormade, Callaway, etc but are fakes.  Copycats are just that, no name brands that are designed to look like the OEMs.  Most people will say that the knockoffs are junk.  I personally play copycats right now and can beat most of my friends who all play major brands.

Will you or someone else elaborate on this???  So is this saying that "copycat" clubs are made with higher quality materials and better quality control???

One of my friends plays with a set of knockoff TaylorMade irons.  From afar, this set looks almost exactly like it's legit counterpart, all the way down to the shaft graphics, cavity graphics, and grip.  A couple of months ago, the head of his 8-iron just snaps off at the hosel after a pured tee shot (he plays graphite shafts).  I don't think I've ever seen that happen with genuine OEM clubs.

I'm guessing that the shafts in those knockoffs must be of a lower quality than the genuine TM graphite shafts.  I can also hear an unusual tinny "ping" sound when tapping the head of the irons.  Makes sense....if you're making fake clubs to begin with, why spend money on higher quality materials, right?

So if a company is going to make copycats (which you imply are not "junk"), are they actually thinking that they want to put together quality clubs and therefore use quality materials.....a higher quality than knockoff companies at least???

Not planning to play copycats or knockoffs, just wondering...

Edited by mookie, 25 July 2009 - 02:22 AM.


#16 justhackin

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 11:20 AM

Mookie

The best reply I have ever seen came from the designer of a well know component club. He said that there is not a design made (component or OEM) anymore that is not a "copy" in some form and all designs use ideas/features that have been used in the past.  I tend to agree with him.  In fact I have two heads (one Wishon and one Infiniti) that look a lot like a Titleist and Nike model.  The kicker here is the Wishon and Infiniti heads were on the market for a year before the others.  They look close enough that I would say the OEM boys "borrowed" (cough, cough) heavily from both designs. I tend to think that most clubs are good enough to play with if fit properly. Are there really "junk" head out there?  Sure there are but if one stays with a brand that is know (OEM or component) they are all good.

One good thing about some of the components is they are made with fitting in mind so many of them have metal properties that can be bent easily. This makes life a lot easier if you are into that sort of thing.

Let me say, before someone else does, be careful what we call "knockoffs". All good heads have a lot of original design ideas in them and are not "knockoffs" as a lot of folks think.

One more thing..... I have a OEM head here that snapped off at the hosel.  Since I know the guy that did it I can assure you it happened during a normal swing. It happens to all brands believe me.

hackin

#17 JOSEPHLB

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 10:46 AM

There are excellent clones.. and there are horrible knockoffs, that blatently try to fool the consumer.  Be aware of what is a knockoff, and you'll be fine.

There are clones everywhere..  from the computer you are posting on.. cloned from the original IBM Personal Computer.. a Mazda Tribute = Ford Escape..  Diet Dr. Pepper.. Diet Dr. Thunder..
store brand foods.. etc..

Nickent used to be a component/clone company.

There are really only a few foundries in the world that produce club heads, so the reality is, a "clone" will come right down the line, along side many of the OEM's, that alot of the snobbish "brand whores" covet..  (using the same materials, etc..)

#18 HytrewQasdfg

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 12:38 PM

Bob's
clone set cost = $179
clone set with 3 & 4 hybrids = $249

RockBottomGolf:
new Nickent 3dx set = $119
new Adams Adams Tight Lies = $119
new Nickent 3dx set 3 & 4 hybrids = $199

The point is, if you look around and bide your time you can find some deals on name brand set that are better than the cost of clone clubs.

I'm a big fan of COMPONENT clubs, but there is a big difference between components and CLONES.

#19 HytrewQasdfg

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 12:44 PM

View PostJOSEPHLB, on Jul 28 2009, 11:46 AM, said:

Nickent used to be a component/clone company.

There is a world of difference between component companies and clone companies. You should not lump them together.

Component companies are executing original desgins, and the quality is often better than the name brand OEM companies (and the  price is often more also.)

Clone companies are exactly that. They copy the designs (and look) of other clubs and try to pass them off as "just as good" at a lower price. The lower price has to come from somewhere, and it is usually in the quality of the materials and workmanship. When you buy a Ping clone you are NOT getting a club that is "just as good" as a Ping, you are getting a club that is a lower quality than a  Ping. Plain and simple.

As far as Nickent goes, they execute original designs and have a number of pro players playing (and winning) with their clubs. They are not a clone company (and as far as I know, never have been.)

#20 JOSEPHLB

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 01:14 PM

Lower prices come from the fact, there is no advertising with big money tv/media ads,.. such as what the big OEM's do...   Again.. "Clones/Inspired By" designs are made in the same foundries as the OEM heads.. with the same materials... its been discussed numerous times.. you can dispute it all you want

And yes, Nickent may have pro's playing their clubs today.. but they started as a clone/component company.

They originally made the "Super Concorde" line of fairway metals.  Integra now owns the rights to produce the "Super Concord" fairway metals.. the exact same product, as the original Nickent (right down to the patent #, which is stamped on the head)

Integra Super Concords: http://www.valuegolf...y_Woods-552.htm

Attached are the Nickent Super Concordes

Attached Thumbnails

  • SC_Nickent.jpg

Attached Images

  • SC_Nickent2.jpg


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#21 cigarnut81

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 01:28 PM

The big reason to not get clones would be that you are promoting their blatant disrespect of the hard work that goes into these original design clubheads. I do not know if that matters to you but it certainly matters to me. Why would you promote their lack of skills or originality & for the most part knockoffs are made of cheaper materials so be careful if you do go ahead with this purchase. I am asking you not to as you are only damaging the club industry with this purchase & why would you want to hurt this grand game?

#22 HytrewQasdfg

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 01:51 PM

View PostJOSEPHLB, on Jul 28 2009, 02:14 PM, said:

And yes, Nickent may have pro's playing their clubs today.. but they started as a clone/component company.

They originally made the "Super Concorde" line of fairway metals.  Integra now owns the rights to produce the "Super Concord" fairway metals.. the exact same product, as the original Nickent (right down to the patent #, which is stamped on the head)

And this is a CLONE of?????

You seem to be deliberatly confusing cones and components. All components are NOT clones.

Wishon heads are components, they are not clones.
Maltby heads are components, they are not not clones.

A company can produce compnents and not produce clones.

Companies steal technology from each other, no doubt. Maltby came out with their Glider irons, and a year later Callaway came out with a Big Bertha I-Brid irons that obviously used design ideas originated by Maltby. However, Callaway wasn't trying to fool people into thinking they were actually Maltby Glider irons.

If you purchase an Onega watch because it looks just like an Omega watch (but costs less), well...you're just fooling yourself.

And if you purchase a set of Pong Capture clubs because they look just like a set of Ping Rapture clubs (but costs less), well....

#23 8602081

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 02:56 PM

View PostHytrewQasdfg, on Jul 28 2009, 02:51 PM, said:

View PostJOSEPHLB, on Jul 28 2009, 02:14 PM, said:

And yes, Nickent may have pro's playing their clubs today.. but they started as a clone/component company.

They originally made the "Super Concorde" line of fairway metals.  Integra now owns the rights to produce the "Super Concord" fairway metals.. the exact same product, as the original Nickent (right down to the patent #, which is stamped on the head)

And this is a CLONE of?????

You seem to be deliberatly confusing cones and components. All components are NOT clones.

Wishon heads are components, they are not clones.
Maltby heads are components, they are not not clones.

A company can produce compnents and not produce clones.

Companies steal technology from each other, no doubt. Maltby came out with their Glider irons, and a year later Callaway came out with a Big Bertha I-Brid irons that obviously used design ideas originated by Maltby. However, Callaway wasn't trying to fool people into thinking they were actually Maltby Glider irons.

If you purchase an Onega watch because it looks just like an Omega watch (but costs less), well...you're just fooling yourself.

And if you purchase a set of Pong Capture clubs because they look just like a set of Ping Rapture clubs (but costs less), well....


You can't see the resemblance?

It looks just like Adams Tight Lies..


Posted ImagePosted Image

Edited by 8602081, 28 July 2009 - 02:58 PM.


#24 Bizcut1

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 12:50 AM

View PostJOSEPHLB, on Jul 28 2009, 08:46 AM, said:

There are excellent clones.. and there are horrible knockoffs, that blatently try to fool the consumer.  Be aware of what is a knockoff, and you'll be fine.

There are clones everywhere..  from the computer you are posting on.. cloned from the original IBM Personal Computer.. a Mazda Tribute = Ford Escape..  Diet Dr. Pepper.. Diet Dr. Thunder..
store brand foods.. etc..

Nickent used to be a component/clone company.

There are really only a few foundries in the world that produce club heads, so the reality is, a "clone" will come right down the line, along side many of the OEM's, that alot of the snobbish "brand whores" covet..  (using the same materials, etc..)

Heh, heh.  He said brand whore.

Check the signature.  If the shoe fits...

#25 zx3bully

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 02:39 AM

I bought these T7 clones of Taylormade r7 as my first set of irons. I got them off of ebay for if I remember correctly $130 shipped. They hit just fine and I had no problems with them. I recently bought a set or real Taylormade r7 irons and I can't feel the difference. I feel like I wasted the money on the new set of irons. I didn't get to hit them before I bought them since I got them off the net. Here is a picture of the T7! T7.jpg


#26 scott91575

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 10:00 PM

View PostJOSEPHLB, on Jul 28 2009, 11:46 AM, said:

There are excellent clones.. and there are horrible knockoffs, that blatently try to fool the consumer.  Be aware of what is a knockoff, and you'll be fine.

There are clones everywhere..  from the computer you are posting on.. cloned from the original IBM Personal Computer.. a Mazda Tribute = Ford Escape..  Diet Dr. Pepper.. Diet Dr. Thunder..
store brand foods.. etc..

Nickent used to be a component/clone company.

There are really only a few foundries in the world that produce club heads, so the reality is, a "clone" will come right down the line, along side many of the OEM's, that alot of the snobbish "brand whores" covet..  (using the same materials, etc..)

Just to debate semantics, but the Mazda is not a clone in the same sense (Ford owns Mazda).  Today's computers are no where near a "clone" of the original IBM machines, they are a future product in the same business (that is like saying that Mazda is a clone of the Model T).  The food analogy is much better.

As for foundries, they may be in the same building but from my experience the OEM owns the tools (this is automotive, not golf....I assume it's similar).  The quality control can be different, and so can the materials (including a combo of the two...quality control of the raw materials).

Yet one thing clones have going for them....clones don't need to worry about covering R&D, advertising, etc. so they can offer a lower cost to meet the lower demand.  I personally would rather get a good used set, but the clones do have a market.




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