[mat562]

For a start - albeit how on earth Paul Casey and his supposed modiocrity has any relation to the nomenclature of the Open Championship is anyone's guess:

You stated that Casey has 'not won a damn thing.'

It's been stated that Casey has numerous wins (11 in total) as a response.

You stated that, in your opinion, his position in the world ranking is artificially high - albeit you didn't really expand upon your reasoning other than to insinuate that his tournament achievements thus far have generally been of limited value.

I countered this by giving a brief summary of the methodology of the Official World Rankings points system and how it relates to Casey's recent successes - which compare favourably, this calendar year, with any other professional in the game. I argued, briefly, that Casey's position is commensurate with his standing in the game when current trends of form are taken into account and a balanced view is taken of the respective merits of the tours on which he plies his trade.

Those are two examples of posts which have explicitly countered things that you have written in this thread.

Another example of a rebuttal exists in the threads which discussed the historical invitation and qualification policy of the U.S.-based majors. Examples were given of leading international players whose participation in those events is more limited than would be expected given their status as multiple tournament winners over a protracted period of time apiece.

The above examples cast a degree of scorn upon your contention that nothing that you have written in this thread has been addressed by other posters.

I sense that the certain degree of exasperation that's becoming evident in some posts - including mine - is at least partly due to the fact that you display a blinkered view of golf outside of the confines of the PGA Tour. Your attitude suggests that you do not feel that achievements, however great, are of any value if they are achieved in a theatre outside of the United States. Your posts relating to Casey's achievements - and by extension, the PGA European Tour - are dismissive and, to a certain degree, ignorant.

I've said my piece about the topic at hand - the nomenclature of the Open Championship and the whys and wherefors of any other names which it has in certain other places around the globe - and, with hindsight, perhaps a little foolishly, entered into this spurious discussion that you instigated about a particular player and his current place in the World Rankings. I've tried to make some sort of a cogent argument to answer your statements but it seems to have fallen flat - as have the efforts of another poster. It seems that your blinkered view of golf outside of your home country is very much set in stone and it further seems that you are unable to construct a cogent argument to support your contentions without resorting to silly and flippant comments that bear little relation to fact and which, frankly, border on pig ignorance. Contrary to your suggestion that no-one is answering your points, it seems that you yourself are unable to construct anything cogent yourself and that there is a distinct gap in your knowledge and understanding of numerous subjects.

I'll carry on calling it the Open Championship and say no more.

[yap]

What an articulate and unbiased opinion, carefully written giving examples to counter any replies.

I for one being an Englishman (not British) living in the USA fully understand where you are coming from

[TM TourClub Ho]

Benefactor, on Jul 25 2009, 09:52 PM, said:

mjtoal, on Jul 25 2009, 02:47 PM, said:

Benefactor, on Jul 25 2009, 05:13 PM, said:

Mark James has 18 wins over 3 decades...I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that to be like the mid 70's to the mid 90's. That's around one win a year. Why should that get you an automatic exemption into the US Open? The European Tour is, in reality, the premiere minor league organization in golf, nothing more. Winning one tournament over there doesn't necessarily mean all that much. Even the PGA tour has some events that aren't terribly strong, so when you water it down further because you're in Europe, a win may not mean much in the grand scheme of things at all. The same can likely be said for Sam Torrance.

I could offer you an intelligent response, but based on your post you wouldn't really understand, so I will save myself the effort.

The short version is that both spent a lot of time in what would be the top 50 or so in the world and often finished high in the Order of Merit, aka Money List.

The reason is that the US Tour (supported by the USGA) operated a closed shop, mainly for the benefit of mediocre nonentities, where foreigners were unwelcome.

To be honest, I think that a lot of the tournaments on the European Tour are weighted too heavily. I don't really understand how a guy like Paul Casey can even be ranked as high as he is - he's never won a damn thing. He has only won once in the US, and it was one of the tour's smaller events with a weaker field. It's like looking at a minor league pitcher dominating the minor leagues and ranking him as high as pitchers dominating the major leagues, as if his competition (the betters) doesn't matter.

Are you serious,

Casey was born in Cheltenham, but moved with his family to Weybridge, Surrey at the age of six. After attending Cleves School, Weybridge and then Hampton School, he studied A levels at Strode's College, Egham. He then took a golf scholarship at Arizona State University.

His amateur career was distinguished. In the U.S. he was the first man to win three consecutive Pac-10 Championships (1998, 1999 and 2000). In 2000 he broke the championship scoring record held by Tiger Woods (18 under par) with a 23 under par 265. Back on the other side of the Atlantic he won the English Amateur in 1999 and 2000. He was also a member of Great Britain and Ireland’s winning 1999 Walker Cup team, where he was only the third player in seventy seven years to record four victories without a single defeat

To Talk about Casey in the way you have really exposes your Mentallity and Knowledge of golf, when you Use casey as an example , you need to check his career as a whole, And in the State Of Arizona where he resides he is Highly regarded .

Now getting back to the "Open Championship" You Guy's can try as much as you like to change the name or try to push your US Open as the better Tournament, But sadly you can't, "the Home of Golf" Scotland, Yes that's right, where they played the great game all them years ago, before a lot of the great designers were called upon to create some golf courses in the United States Of America ( yes that's right most of the top courses with any history in the US were designed by Colt, Mackenzie etc) so give us some credit.

As i have said in a previous post, I can Understand Patriotism comes in to the arguement, As most american's would love to win their National championship and it would be the same for us brit's wanting to win Our's.

But the name on the Trophies say's it all , Your's as "US OPEN" on it, Our's Does Not Have British anywhere on it.

It Is the only " Open Championship" In Golf and it was a MAJOR before the US OPEN, MASTERS and PGA.

[elnino82]

It's been called the open ever since the day it started.
No one has ever called it British open until Americans who started call it British open to distinguish it from US open.
I think everyone should respect its history and its name by calling it The open not British open.

[Asleep]

Benefactor, on Jul 25 2009, 03:52 PM, said:

...Paul Casey ... has only won once in the US, and it was one of the tour's smaller events with a weaker field...

Wrong. Casey won the 2009 Shell Houston Open against a pretty respectable field...

from ESPN: Woods is not in Houston, but Phil Mickelson, Sergio Garcia, Geoff Ogilvy, Padraig Harrington, Vijay Singh, Camilo Villegas, Henrik Stenson and Robert Karlsson are in the field. Woods and Kenny Perry are the only top-10 players not entered. In addition, the tournament had commitments from 15 of the top 20 and 21 of the top 30, making it one of the strongest fields of the year outside the major championships and World Golf Championship events...

mat562, on Jul 26 2009, 11:22 AM, said:

...it seems that you yourself are unable to construct anything cogent yourself and that there is a distinct gap in your knowledge and understanding of numerous subjects. I'll carry on ... and say no more.

Refusing to match wits with an unarmed opponent?

[avrag]

Where is a mod when you really need one?

[gatorsteve]

I used to call it The Open. But after reading this thread I'm going to call it the British Open too see how many people I can piss off.



steve

[anders]

Lundingolfer, on Jul 22 2009, 01:39 PM, said:

Sawgrass, on Jul 22 2009, 03:56 PM, said:

I'd like to say something in defense of every person who's ever called the major tournament which currently resides between the U.S. Open and the P.G.A. Championship "The British Open." And in so doing mildly challenge people who rush to "correct" such speach.

I get that you Brits named your tournament "The Open" more than a hundred years ago. I don't know, maybe it was the only "Open" on earth at the time. That's certainly not the case today.

Today, the name "Open" is part of the title of the U.S. Open, French Open, Irish Open, Senior British Open, U.S. Senior Open, and who knows how many others.

It's fair to say that when speaking about any one of these tournaments, one might on occasion abbreviate its title and call it "the Open". Hence, someone calling The British Open "British" is a sometimes useful qualifier to avoid confusion. Jumping to "correct" such a speaker serves no one. And it makes you seem a bit fussy. Further, there is no way of telling whether the offending speaker, in saying, "The British Open" means that as an incorrect title for that tournament or rather means, "The open which is held in Great Britain".

You guys invented the English language. I thank you for that. Let's all enjoy using it in a clear manner.

Heck, sometimes I have a hard enough time figuring out what someone means when they say something about "The U.S. Open", because it's not necessarily clear whether they're talking tennis or golf.

Signed,

A Yankee fan of the British Open

(Please feel free to flame, my golfing brothers from across the sea.)

Get your handicap down,qualify,come over and play,win it and see what you call it then................................

The best response yet to any post. Well done mate it's pricelss!

[anders]

elnino82, on Jul 26 2009, 01:36 PM, said:

It's been called the open ever since the day it started.
No one has ever called it British open until Americans who started call it British open to distinguish it from US open.
I think everyone should respect its history and its name by calling it The open not British open.

Every other country barr America realises it's THE OPEN. If our US Cousins want to call the second biggest major THE OPEN also then that's fine by me, just as long as they realise that the British Open is THE OPEN and THE major to win over the other three!

[D'KRUSHER]

Tin Cup movie is the best golf movie ever.. and our best representation of golf history, and golf culture.
Since the movie is about the US Open... and there aren't even any Brits in the movie...
Then one must surmise :
1. US Open is much more important than the Open Championship
2. American Golfers are better than Euro Golfers
3. They tried to get a Euro Pro in the movie but in thr try-outs,
the stress of trying to hit his 3 wood over water - to get home in 2 and failing 4 times in a row
, he decided he'd have enough.. and went inside to have a Pint. So this proves a lot........

[Mainlinegolfer]

Perhaps the name "The Open" vs. "The British Open' can generate significant commentary.

However, I'm sure we can all agree that today's, "The Senior Open" (sponsored by MasterCard), cannot properly be referred to by any other name. Having been played since 1987, it must surely be the oldest and most venerated "Senior Open" in the world.

(Boy, do I like Sunningdale. I think I might actually prefer a couple of heathland courses outside London to many links courses I've played. Gasp, did I say that out loud?).

[kurob]

anders, on Jul 26 2009, 03:09 PM, said:

elnino82, on Jul 26 2009, 01:36 PM, said:

It's been called the open ever since the day it started.
No one has ever called it British open until Americans who started call it British open to distinguish it from US open.
I think everyone should respect its history and its name by calling it The open not British open.

Every other country barr America realises it's THE OPEN. If our US Cousins want to call the second biggest major THE OPEN also then that's fine by me, just as long as they realise that the British Open is THE OPEN and THE major to win over the other three!

No other country's national open is a major, so the US is perhaps the only place where there might be some doubt about which tournament one is talking about. Hence, it tends to be Americans that put the "British" label on the tournament.

Lots of professionals, mostly American, would rather win the US Open or The Masters than the Open Championship. And lots of professionals that have won the Open Championship call it the British Open. So, I think your much more confident than you should be in your assertions.

[larrybud]

Stall, on Jul 23 2009, 07:24 PM, said:

bscinstnct, on Jul 24 2009, 12:07 AM, said:

But now, in true Yankee, American, USA USA, send your King home packing, spirit, I will henceforth call the Open Championship...

You know the only reason we let you guys get all USA USA, last September was because we new you'd throw your toys out the pram and withdraw from the Ryder Cup had we horsed you 4 times on the spin!

Can someone translate to English, and not British English, but American English!?!?! :-)

[larrybud]

All I know is that if I go to www.britishopen.com, it gets me to where I want to go. So if the organizers don't mind calling it that, I don't think anyone else should get their knickers in a bunch.

[larrybud]

I'm using knickers in their proper English meaning.

Also, if you google "the british open" vs. "the open championship" (make sure you use quotes when doing so), you get 3 times the references to "The british open" as "the open championship", so as far as pages indexed by Google, The British Open wins.

[Sawgrass]

I'm curious about Irish people's habits regarding talking about "The Open". Since there's an Irish Open golf tournament, and since Ireland and Great Britain are so close together, and since people from both countries are so deeply appreciative of the game, there is at least some potential for confusion when talking about one tournament or the other. Can anyone speak to whether the Irish call The Open Championship "The British Open" more or less frequently than we Americans do?

(I've seen quite a few British addresses from posters, I'm not sure how big the GolfWrx Irish population is.)

[Sawgrass]

mjtoal, on Jul 27 2009, 01:35 PM, said:

Check my avatar, and my passport is the same.

There is an Irish Open and The Open, simple as that. The Irish, who are most certainly NOT British, have no issues with it.

The "From: UK" under your avatar threw me off. And I suppose I'm still a little confused by it. I, perhaps incorreclty, assume that you mean that you are a citizen of The Republic of Ireland since you say "The Irish" are most certainly NOT British." I do acknowledge though, that if your personal experience hearing the Republic of Ireland's people speak about The Open is commonplace, it is a valid argument for we Americans changing our ways.

[Sawgrass]

mjtoal, on Jul 27 2009, 02:12 PM, said:

Sawgrass, on Jul 27 2009, 06:49 PM, said:

mjtoal, on Jul 27 2009, 01:35 PM, said:

Check my avatar, and my passport is the same.

There is an Irish Open and The Open, simple as that. The Irish, who are most certainly NOT British, have no issues with it.

The "From: UK" under your avatar threw me off. And I suppose I'm still a little confused by it. I, perhaps incorreclty, assume that you mean that you are a citizen of The Republic of Ireland since you say "The Irish" are most certainly NOT British." I do acknowledge though, that if your personal experience hearing the Republic of Ireland's people speak about The Open is commonplace, it is a valid argument for we Americans changing our ways.

I am actually from Northern Ireland, where, shall we say, people have traditionally decided they were either Irish or British and relentlessly stuck to that opinion.

I now live in the UK, but I do not, and probably never will, consider myself British and would sooner eat my golf bag than wave a Union Jack!

Thank you for responding in such a personal way, and for understanding that my interest was not to pry, but rather to gain a clearer picture of how people feel regarding speaking of The Open. I find it particularly interesting to note that while you are resolutely "not British", you still support the British preference for the name of their tournament. Although I guess it's equally possible that you prefer to keep the word "British" out of the tournament of which you are fond!

[Stall]

larrybud, on Jul 27 2009, 04:34 PM, said:

Can someone translate to English, and not British English, but American English!?!?! :-)

Now theres an oxymoron if ever there was one.

I think we should just put this to bed by stating that since we are British we have superior understanding of the game and general knowledge in general. I give you exibit A, which i saw today on the espn golf pages.

http://sports.espn.g...n...&id=4350407


Apparantly Paul Lawrie isn't British.

Can I also say that I have no problem whatsoever in referring to the Masters as the Masters. I dont feel the need to stick US on the front.

[mat562]

In all fairness though, ask the average daytime television-watching chav in Romford what the difference is between Great Britain and the United Kingdom and see what answer you get.

[Stall]

mat562, on Jul 27 2009, 11:01 PM, said:

In all fairness though, ask the average daytime television-watching chav in Romford what the difference is between Great Britain and the United Kingdom and see what answer you get.

I agree with you mate, but your average daytime tv watching chav isn't paid as a chief golf writer.

[Mainlinegolfer]

mat562, on Jul 27 2009, 06:01 PM, said:

In all fairness though, ask the average daytime television-watching chav in Romford what the difference is between Great Britain and the United Kingdom and see what answer you get.

...or that sophisticated fellow who's been to Leeds.

[OpusX20]

[mat562]

If you're any good at tennis or cricket I'm sure we can sort you out with a British passport without too much paperwork being necessary.

[bscinstnct]

I have conducted my own poll here in New York on this issue. As half on London has moved here, there is no shortage
on Brits to ask.

I picked a nice couple in my building whom I say "hello" to. I put this simple question to them:

"Did you have the chance to see any of the British Open on tv?"

The husband squinted at me a bit, his head cocked to the side and he started to say over and over to me, "the Open Championship,
the Open Championship". Each time with increasing intensity.


His wife then kicked me in both shins.

Touchy subject this Open Championship business.

[callawayfan]

yea we get a bit annoyed when it gets called the british open
also people get annoyed when americans call them british.. but thats another subject all together

[bscinstnct]

callawayfan, on Jul 27 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

yea we get a bit annoyed when it gets called the british open
also people get annoyed when americans call them british.. but thats another subject all together

I understand. Wouldn't dream of asking a Brit, "Are you British?" much less "are you a Brit?" vis-a-vis, "Are you from Great Britain?".

That said, I would expect that many of the people of Great Britain might use the term Yank amongst themselves quite frequently when
referring to Americans.

[callawayfan]

bscinstnct, on Jul 27 2009, 09:26 PM, said:

callawayfan, on Jul 27 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

yea we get a bit annoyed when it gets called the british open
also people get annoyed when americans call them british.. but thats another subject all together

I understand. Wouldn't dream of asking a Brit, "Are you British?" much less "are you a Brit?" vis-a-vis, "Are you from Great Britain?".

That said, I would expect that many of the people of Great Britain might use the term Yank amongst themselves quite frequently when
referring to Americans.

yea some do but i personally refer to you guys as american.
can americans tell the difference between a Scottish and English accent?

because an american once thought i had an english accent and i dont.

[bscinstnct]

callawayfan, on Jul 27 2009, 10:06 PM, said:

bscinstnct, on Jul 27 2009, 09:26 PM, said:

callawayfan, on Jul 27 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

yea we get a bit annoyed when it gets called the british open
also people get annoyed when americans call them british.. but thats another subject all together

I understand. Wouldn't dream of asking a Brit, "Are you British?" much less "are you a Brit?" vis-a-vis, "Are you from Great Britain?".

That said, I would expect that many of the people of Great Britain might use the term Yank amongst themselves quite frequently when
referring to Americans.

yea some do but i personally refer to you guys as american.
can americans tell the difference between a Scottish and English accent?

because an american once thought i had an english accent and i dont.

Firstly, I am not exaggerating when I say that the biography of William Wallace, as well as our agreement to his standing as a hero and superman, is probably more well known to 99% of us than that of nearly all of our own presidents. In fact, and I hope that the film is received well in Scotland, Braveheart runs 24/7 on the TNT network here.

On the accent issue. We know the difference well. We even understand the dialects native to different parts of England.
Not those to different Scottish counties (if you call them counties) but we hear the Scottish people say school as "skewl".

[callawayfan]

bscinstnct, on Jul 27 2009, 10:52 PM, said:

callawayfan, on Jul 27 2009, 10:06 PM, said:

bscinstnct, on Jul 27 2009, 09:26 PM, said:

callawayfan, on Jul 27 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

yea we get a bit annoyed when it gets called the british open
also people get annoyed when americans call them british.. but thats another subject all together

I understand. Wouldn't dream of asking a Brit, "Are you British?" much less "are you a Brit?" vis-a-vis, "Are you from Great Britain?".

That said, I would expect that many of the people of Great Britain might use the term Yank amongst themselves quite frequently when
referring to Americans.

yea some do but i personally refer to you guys as american.
can americans tell the difference between a Scottish and English accent?

because an american once thought i had an english accent and i dont.

Firstly, I am not exaggerating when I say that the biography of William Wallace, as well as our agreement to his standing as a hero and superman, is probably more well known to 99% of us than that of nearly all of our own presidents. In fact, and I hope that the film is received well in Scotland, Braveheart runs 24/7 on the TNT network here.

On the accent issue. We know the difference well. We even understand the dialects native to different parts of England.
Not those to different Scottish counties (if you call them counties) but we hear the Scottish people say school as "skewl".

yep we love William Wallace but the English still think King Edward is the hero.
yea dont worry if you cant understand some scottish people... even we cant understand some of them

is it true that americans like scottish accent

[Sawgrass]

callawayfan, on Jul 27 2009, 11:00 PM, said:

is it true that americans like scottish accent

Yes. Unless we have a goal of actually understanding what you're saying.