[spitfisher]

while watching the british open today, stricker chipped in, proceeded to walk up to the pin, reach down and pick his ball out of the hole. Right next to him and waiting for him to remove his ball so that the pin could remove was another players caddy.

My buddy claims you can only remove the pin once? a debate ensued with multiple examples from both sides. Eventually we agreed to research it and the loser would buy the other dinner after next tuesdays round.

so the question is....
1) in strickers case why did he not pull the pin out?- infact everyone I saw on the high lights did the same: pin in and remove ball.
2)Can a pin be removed only once when everyone is on the green
3) can a pin be removed then placed back in- such as if someone puts his ball off the green and elects to use it to come back on.


any other rules that you are aware of or situations involving the pin will also be appreciated.

Ed

[MAK2525]

It is proper to remove the ball before the pin to avoid damaging the hole in the event the pin "pinches" the ball.

The pin can be removed and then replaced before all players have holed out. For example, player A has a 50 foot put and player B is off the green with a 25 foot chip. Player A is away and removes the pin to put. Player B wants the pin in, so the pin is replaced.

[Double True]

I always thought that regardless of how far away you were if you were off the green you were automatically "away".

[HeadonaStick]

Double True, on Jul 17 2009, 08:50 PM, said:

I always thought that regardless of how far away you were if you were off the green you were automatically "away".

Only in casual rounds to speed up play. That way you only remove the pin one time after everyone is on the green.

[MAK2525]

Double True, on Jul 17 2009, 08:50 PM, said:

I always thought that regardless of how far away you were if you were off the green you were automatically "away".

Most people play casual rounds that way to speed things up. However, in tournament conditions, away is away, no matter if you are on or off the green.

[psygolf]

Distance from the pin determines who is asway, regardless of whether one is on the green or not - but usually one will defer to someone off the green so the pin does not have to be replaced As for stricker, it is illegal to use the pin to remove the ball out of the hole, it must be taken out by hand.

[Strategery]

There is no "away" in stroke play.

Been playing for 31 yrs, and competitively, and I've never heard of a limit as to the number of times the pin can be removed. More info on this please!!

[psygolf]

then why do pros ask official for a ruling to the case?

[MAK2525]

Strategery, on Jul 17 2009, 08:57 PM, said:

There is no "away" in stroke play.

Sorry, but I have to disagree.

There is "away" in both match and stroke play. The only difference is the penalty for playing out of turn. In stroke play, your playing partner can make you replay the shot. In match play, it's loss of the hole.

[celts5407]

Strategery, on Jul 17 2009, 08:57 PM, said:

There is no "away" in stroke play.

Been playing for 31 yrs, and competitively, and I've never heard of a limit as to the number of times the pin can be removed. More info on this please!!

what? was that a serious statement? you've been playing golf for 31 years and you say theres no "away" in stroke play? what do all these people use for determining the order of play after the tee shots then?

[HeadonaStick]

MAK2525, on Jul 17 2009, 09:03 PM, said:

Strategery, on Jul 17 2009, 08:57 PM, said:

There is no "away" in stroke play.

Sorry, but I have to disagree.

There is "away" in both match and stroke play. The only difference is the penalty for playing out of turn. In stroke play, your playing partner can make you replay the shot. In match play, it's loss of the hole.

That's not quite right.

The player who is away should always play first, stroke play or match play. However, in stroke play, order of play is a matter of etiquette. If you hit out of turn, it's a breach of etiquette, but there is no penalty. In match play, if you hit out of turn your opponent can require you to replay the shot in the proper order. And if your first shot was a great one, you can bet that you'll be replaying.

[psygolf]

HeadonaStick, on Jul 17 2009, 08:10 PM, said:

MAK2525, on Jul 17 2009, 09:03 PM, said:

Strategery, on Jul 17 2009, 08:57 PM, said:

There is no "away" in stroke play.

Sorry, but I have to disagree.

There is "away" in both match and stroke play. The only difference is the penalty for playing out of turn. In stroke play, your playing partner can make you replay the shot. In match play, it's loss of the hole.

That's not quite right.

The player who is away should always play first, stroke play or match play. However, in stroke play, order of play is a matter of etiquette. If you hit out of turn, it's a breach of etiquette, but there is no penalty. In match play, if you hit out of turn your opponent can require you to replay the shot in the proper order. And if your first shot was great one, you can bet that you'll be replaying.

+1

[psygolf]

celts5407, on Jul 17 2009, 08:06 PM, said:

Strategery, on Jul 17 2009, 08:57 PM, said:

There is no "away" in stroke play.

Been playing for 31 yrs, and competitively, and I've never heard of a limit as to the number of times the pin can be removed. More info on this please!!

what? was that a serious statement? you've been playing golf for 31 years and you say theres no "away" in stroke play? what do all these people use for determining the order of play after the tee shots then?

They don't -Strategery's group is the fastest (and most dangerous) foursome in golf... the yell "FORE" before they've even hit!

[celts5407]

psygolf, on Jul 17 2009, 09:19 PM, said:

celts5407, on Jul 17 2009, 08:06 PM, said:

Strategery, on Jul 17 2009, 08:57 PM, said:

There is no "away" in stroke play.

Been playing for 31 yrs, and competitively, and I've never heard of a limit as to the number of times the pin can be removed. More info on this please!!

what? was that a serious statement? you've been playing golf for 31 years and you say theres no "away" in stroke play? what do all these people use for determining the order of play after the tee shots then?

They don't -Strategery's group is the fastest (and most dangerous) foursome in golf... the yell "FORE" before they've even hit!

[celts5407]

rule 10-2B

after the competitors have started play of the hole, the ball farthest from the hole is played first. if two or more balls are equidistant from the hole, or their positions relative to the hole are not determinable, the ball to be played first should be decided by lot.

direct from the rule book

[Strategery]

Yep, there is no real "away" in stroke play; it's just etiquette, not a rule. Just like being quiet, not stepping in people's lines, repairing ball marks, fixing divots, not standing in back of or near a playing partner, blah, blah. That's just all politeness and it varies from person to person. Match play is a totally diff thing w.r.t. being "away". Look it up.

The pin story's got to be a joke. My playing partner 50ft away can have the pin held on the green, or 300 yds away in the fairway, and I can have the pin reinserted and held for my tap-in birdie.

[mwinklaw]

The reason he did not remove the pin is because if the ball came out of the hole during the removal of the pin it is rub of the green and he must play hole the next shot (i.e., it only counts if it stays below the lip. It is the same rule if your ball is wedged between the pin and the edge of the hole. You can straighten the pin. If the ball falls in, it counts. If it stays out, you have to hole out.

There is away in stroke play.

Topic over.

[Strategery]

mwinklaw, on Jul 17 2009, 10:13 PM, said:

There is away in stroke play.

Topic over.

penalty = nothing, good luck enforcing that non-rule

I'm not downplaying courtesy or safety, just trying to clarify what can be enforced by penalty.

[SwingLikeElk]

No doubt Slugger White is laughing his rear end off somewhere reading these entertaining opinions! I think Celts has it right, though. Not all of us have the USGA book in our bags but it's all there.

[lebanontngolfer]

mwinklaw, on Jul 17 2009, 09:13 PM, said:

The reason he did not remove the pin is because if the ball came out of the hole during the removal of the pin it is rub of the green and he must play hole the next shot (i.e., it only counts if it stays below the lip. It is the same rule if your ball is wedged between the pin and the edge of the hole. You can straighten the pin. If the ball falls in, it counts. If it stays out, you have to hole out.

Sorry, mwinklaw, it is not the same situation. USGA Definitions (Section II) state:
Holed
A ball is holed when it is at rest within the circumference of the hole and all of it is below the level of the lip of the hole.

Ball in Play
A ball is in play as soon as the player has made a stroke on the teeing ground. It remains in play until it is holed...


Therefore, when Stricker's ball came to rest at the bottom of the cup even with the pin in, he is considered to have "holed" his ball and his ball is no longer "in play." The guys pull the ball out without removing the pin because they don't want to pull the cup liner up and/or damage the edge of the hole.

[MAK2525]

HeadonaStick, on Jul 17 2009, 09:13 PM, said:

The player who is away should always play first, stroke play or match play. However, in stroke play, order of play is a matter of etiquette. If you hit out of turn, it's a breach of etiquette, but there is no penalty. In match play, if you hit out of turn your opponent can require you to replay the shot in the proper order. And if your first shot was a great one, you can bet that you'll be replaying.

Thanks for the correction - I mixed up the match / stroke play as far as having to replay the shot.

[tjy355]

spitfisher, on Jul 17 2009, 05:40 PM, said:

...My buddy claims you can only remove the pin once? ...

so the question is....
...
3) can a pin be removed then placed back in- such as if someone puts his ball off the green and elects to use it to come back on.

I don't think anyone addressed this question. Your buddy is wrong. The pin may be removed and replaced any number of times.