Jump to content

Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at GolfWRX such as viewing all the images, interacting with members, access to all forums and eligiblility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

* * * * - 5 votes

Can a 4-handicap man beat an LPGA pro?


2231 replies to this topic

#61 gunmetal

gunmetal

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,515 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 6904
  • Joined: 10/18/2005
  • Location:Washington
GolfWRX Likes : 387

Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:37 PM

View Postwobgon, on 23 August 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

No they can't get the ball up and down like nobody else.......LPGA chipping and putting is not as good as PGA tour. Just a fact.

I would disagree.  Top 10 LPGA players get the ball up and down just as much if not more than top 10 PGA.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


1

#62 iteachgolf

iteachgolf

    Legend

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,697 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 14489
  • Joined: 04/30/2006
  • Location:Jacksonville, FL
GolfWRX Likes : 5013

Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:41 PM

View Postgunmetal, on 23 August 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

View Postwobgon, on 23 August 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

No they can't get the ball up and down like nobody else.......LPGA chipping and putting is not as good as PGA tour.    Just a fact.

I would disagree.  Top 10 LPGA players get the ball up and down just as much if not more than top 10 PGA.

Again it's not even close.  Hole locations are WAY easier on LPGA Tour with slower and softer greens and less rough.   Annika who had the best short game on LPGA tour after playing with guys said her shortgame was mediorce compared to even an average PGA tour player.  It motivated her to work even harder on it.  If they played with the same conditions the PGA tour guys would be head and shoulders about the LPGA around the greens

2

#63 McCann1

McCann1

    Tour Player

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,061 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 410936
  • Joined: 02/03/2016
  • Location:Wilmington, NC
  • Ebay ID:igolfandguitar
GolfWRX Likes : 1359

Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:56 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

The LPGA is not getting enough credit, clearly.

How do you figure? Some of use have played with and experienced exactly how good LPGA Tour players are. Some of us have even taught them.
This thread is a perfect example. What basis do the people on here have that they are not all that good? Because they're women? They're professionals just like the men. Now I get the men on average are better but I still think the game as a whole deserves much more credit than it is getting
Enjoy the chase.

3

#64 pinhigh27

pinhigh27

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,794 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 73898
  • Joined: 01/27/2009
GolfWRX Likes : 2599

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:00 PM

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

The LPGA is not getting enough credit, clearly.

How do you figure? Some of use have played with and experienced exactly how good LPGA Tour players are. Some of us have even taught them.
This thread is a perfect example. What basis do the people on here have that they are not all that good? Because they're women? They're professionals just like the men. Now I get the men on average are better but I still think the game as a whole deserves much more credit than it is getting

we're stating objective factors, such as course conditions and coupling that with anecdotes as well as feedback from the ladies themselves when they tried to play with the men.

this is no different than any other sports. in most sports the u18 mens team beats the women's team of all -stars. has happened in basketball and soccer in recent times.

the u17 men's soccer team beat the usa womens soccer team 8-2 a few years ago. the women which are ranked #1 in the world for the national team rankings.

What basis do you have?
How to be in better shape for golf?
Become a better athlete.
Don't worry about golf specific.
Compound lifts w/ linear progress
Don't forget the mobility work.
More results, more functional

Spin is not your enemy, everything is a trade-off.
17 * 1700 goes really far, but doesn't go very straight or consistent
8* 3500 goes really straight, but doesn't go very far
Answer for most is somewhere in the middle.
Pga tour driver avg launch conditions: 11* 2700

4

#65 goobers80

goobers80

    gooberSammy - I have Autism

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,876 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 168463
  • Joined: 03/09/2012
  • Location:East Coast
  • Handicap:+1.7
  • Ebay ID:goobies2007
GolfWRX Likes : 1737

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:02 PM

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

The LPGA is not getting enough credit, clearly.

How do you figure? Some of use have played with and experienced exactly how good LPGA Tour players are. Some of us have even taught them.
This thread is a perfect example. What basis do the people on here have that they are not all that good? Because they're women? They're professionals just like the men. Now I get the men on average are better but I still think the game as a whole deserves much more credit than it is getting

I can definitely say that it is almost true that women are always going to be put down even if you claim you are not. Even if you claim you respect women golfers , men still will put them down whether they realize it or not. Both sides constantly have to compare , but guys seem eager to put women athletes down or be condescending while complimenting them. Having played against top amateurs and professional golfers on the women's side in actual tournaments , i can say froms experience , even scratch golfers would have troubles unless they can take it around the country.

I could agree on the short game argument , except men have to be as good as they are ands women have to be as good as they are. If the courses were set up harder , the women would adapt. A lot will just chip it on ands make bogey at worst , which is not a bad thing usually. I have played many courses in tournaments that are near 13 ands sloping greens , ands it is not *rocket science* on how to adjust from easier greens.

However , it is stupid to compare the two , since it is all different.

Edited by goobers80, 23 August 2016 - 06:03 PM.

Be Yourself Always
TaylorMade M2 7.5*

Callaway XR 16 3 wood
Ping G30 Hybrid
TaylorMade TP CB 5-PW
TaylorMade Tour Preferred EF 51* & 58* ATV wedge
SeeMore X4 Nickel
Nike RZN Volt Balls
WITB Link


5

#66 chocolate_rehab

chocolate_rehab

    look good, play good

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 655 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 381886
  • Joined: 06/22/2015
  • Location:Boston --> LA
GolfWRX Likes : 535

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:04 PM

View Postgoobers80, on 23 August 2016 - 06:02 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

The LPGA is not getting enough credit, clearly.

How do you figure? Some of use have played with and experienced exactly how good LPGA Tour players are. Some of us have even taught them.
This thread is a perfect example. What basis do the people on here have that they are not all that good? Because they're women? They're professionals just like the men. Now I get the men on average are better but I still think the game as a whole deserves much more credit than it is getting

I can definitely say that it is almost true that women are always going to be put down even if you claim you are not. Even if you claim you respect women golfers , men still will put them down whether they realize it or not. Both sides constantly have to compare , but guys seem eager to put women athletes down or be condescending while complimenting them. Having played against top amateurs and professional golfers on the women's side in actual tournaments , i can say froms experience , even scratch golfers would have troubles unless they can take it around the country.

I could agree on the short game argument , except men have to be as good as they are ands women have to be as good as they are. If the courses were set up harder , the women would adapt. A lot will just chip it on ands make bogey at worst , which is not a bad thing usually. I have played many courses in tournaments that are near 13 ands sloping greens , ands it is not *rocket science* on how to adjust from easier greens.

However , it is stupid to compare the two , since it is all different.

Bingo. And if one more person compares a basketball team of men beating a basketball team of women as reason why women aren't as good as men, I swear to god.
Ping G400 SF Tec 12*
Ping G400 SF Tec 3w, 5w
Ping G400 4H
Ping G 6-UW with Recoil 760 ES
Callaway MD3 54* and PM 58*
Edel Columbia Custom

6

#67 McCann1

McCann1

    Tour Player

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,061 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 410936
  • Joined: 02/03/2016
  • Location:Wilmington, NC
  • Ebay ID:igolfandguitar
GolfWRX Likes : 1359

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:16 PM

View Postpinhigh27, on 23 August 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

The LPGA is not getting enough credit, clearly.

How do you figure? Some of use have played with and experienced exactly how good LPGA Tour players are. Some of us have even taught them.
This thread is a perfect example. What basis do the people on here have that they are not all that good? Because they're women? They're professionals just like the men. Now I get the men on average are better but I still think the game as a whole deserves much more credit than it is getting

we're stating objective factors, such as course conditions and coupling that with anecdotes as well as feedback from the ladies themselves when they tried to play with the men.

this is no different than any other sports. in most sports the u18 mens team beats the women's team of all -stars. has happened in basketball and soccer in recent times.

the u17 men's soccer team beat the usa womens soccer team 8-2 a few years ago. the women which are ranked #1 in the world for the national team rankings.

What basis do you have?
Because I have grown up playing golf competitively and play with many good professional golfers now, men and women. I see it first hand. All you have are your opinions based on hypothetical situations. If women's courses were tougher they would adapt. That's what the best in the world do. I don't even know why I'm going back and forth with you on this, but I digress..
Enjoy the chase.

7

#68 glcoach

glcoach

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,707 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 6874
  • Joined: 10/17/2005
  • Location:Georgia
  • Handicap:2.1
  • Ebay ID:rpw217
GolfWRX Likes : 344

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:17 PM

This thread is silly, yes a 4 handicap would get beaten, badlly.  That's not even a real scenario.

However, I would like to see what most 4 handicaps would do to a 6100 yard course with every pin in the middle of the green on fantastic rolling 10 stimp greens and little to no rough (which is the setup at most LPGA events) in a CASUAL(yet rule following) round.  IMO, most of them would shoot a career low score...

8

#69 chocolate_rehab

chocolate_rehab

    look good, play good

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 655 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 381886
  • Joined: 06/22/2015
  • Location:Boston --> LA
GolfWRX Likes : 535

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:21 PM

View Postglcoach, on 23 August 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

This thread is silly, yes a 4 handicap would get beaten, badlly.  That's not even a real scenario.

However, I would like to see what most 4 handicaps would do to a 6100 yard course with every pin in the middle of the green on fantastic rolling 10 stimp greens and little to no rough (which is the setup at most LPGA events) in a CASUAL(yet rule following) round.  IMO, most of them would shoot a career low score...

If you think playing a round on tour (yes, even the much maligned LPGA tour) is ever "casual," there's a huge amount of cognitive dissonance happening.
Ping G400 SF Tec 12*
Ping G400 SF Tec 3w, 5w
Ping G400 4H
Ping G 6-UW with Recoil 760 ES
Callaway MD3 54* and PM 58*
Edel Columbia Custom

9

#70 iteachgolf

iteachgolf

    Legend

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,697 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 14489
  • Joined: 04/30/2006
  • Location:Jacksonville, FL
GolfWRX Likes : 5013

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:22 PM

View Postgoobers80, on 23 August 2016 - 06:02 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

The LPGA is not getting enough credit, clearly.

How do you figure? Some of use have played with and experienced exactly how good LPGA Tour players are. Some of us have even taught them.
This thread is a perfect example. What basis do the people on here have that they are not all that good? Because they're women? They're professionals just like the men. Now I get the men on average are better but I still think the game as a whole deserves much more credit than it is getting

I can definitely say that it is almost true that women are always going to be put down even if you claim you are not. Even if you claim you respect women golfers , men still will put them down whether they realize it or not. Both sides constantly have to compare , but guys seem eager to put women athletes down or be condescending while complimenting them. Having played against top amateurs and professional golfers on the women's side in actual tournaments , i can say froms experience , even scratch golfers would have troubles unless they can take it around the country.

I could agree on the short game argument , except men have to be as good as they are ands women have to be as good as they are. If the courses were set up harder , the women would adapt. A lot will just chip it on ands make bogey at worst , which is not a bad thing usually. I have played many courses in tournaments that are near 13 ands sloping greens , ands it is not *rocket science* on how to adjust from easier greens.

However , it is stupid to compare the two , since it is all different.

I respect the women a ton. The women at the top of the game are phenomenal.  There simply isn't as much depth.  The top 10 on the LPGA tour are scary good.  I wouldn't want to play Stacy Lewis, even from 7100 yards, for money.   But the women in he bottom half in another story.  There is a massive gap in skill level between the 100th ranked woman and the top 10.  The depth has improved drastically in the last 10 years but it still has a ways to go.  In another 10 years I think it will be more competitive.

I know a girl who top 100 in scoring average and around 100th in money on the LPGA Tour.  Has been out there a few years now and only has 2 career top 10s.   Its a lot like how the PGA Tour was 60 years ago.  Just because I don't think the talent pool is as deep doesn't mean I don't respect them


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


10

#71 MtlJeff

MtlJeff

    #TheWRX (Callaway Trip)

  • ClubWRX Charter Members
  • 19,344 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 68568
  • Joined: 11/01/2008
  • Location:Montreal
  • Handicap:1.0
GolfWRX Likes : 19180

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:28 PM

We are getting so sidetracked here. The thread is about 4 handicaps vs LPGA pros. As almost everyone has said, a 4 handicap would get destroyed by the ladies

We get sidetracked by people who want to label posters as sexist, and by people posting about different scenarios than what the OP asked.

It's not sexist to say that men have a physical advantage over women. One poster has referenced games between the US women's national soccer team and teenage boys, which the women lost. Men also tend to compete with women in track and field in the same gaps, a 15-16 year old top sprinter will beat olympic champion women. I don't mean that to sexist...it's not sexist, it's just a fact. It's nothing against women. So if someone posts that a top amateur 15 year old boy could beat an LPGA pro, it's not a shot at women and it's not sexist....it's just most likely true

But a 4 handicap, the subject of the thread. Would get killed....

We don't have to pretend men and women are the same physically. It's not insulting anyone to concede that
Callaway Epic SubZero 8 w/Diamana D+ 70
Callaway XR Pro 14 w/Diamana D+ 80
Callaway Steelhead XR 3 iron w/S300
Callaway Apex Pro 4-PW w/S300
Callaway MD Forged 52,56,60 w/S200
Odyssey Versa Works 1W Tank

11

#72 goobers80

goobers80

    gooberSammy - I have Autism

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,876 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 168463
  • Joined: 03/09/2012
  • Location:East Coast
  • Handicap:+1.7
  • Ebay ID:goobies2007
GolfWRX Likes : 1737

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:33 PM

The disrespect to me comes from comparing the two games. Women sports will never be as deep as the men's side for various / obvious reasons. I could beat the hell out of some guys in a fight just as they would me. I would however say as a female , playing any sport with guys makes you better. It is just how it is. That being said , many men are sexist still when it comes to these things. I see it everywhere we go. I honestly see it worse on the club level.

Edited by goobers80, 23 August 2016 - 06:36 PM.

Be Yourself Always
TaylorMade M2 7.5*

Callaway XR 16 3 wood
Ping G30 Hybrid
TaylorMade TP CB 5-PW
TaylorMade Tour Preferred EF 51* & 58* ATV wedge
SeeMore X4 Nickel
Nike RZN Volt Balls
WITB Link


12

#73 iteachgolf

iteachgolf

    Legend

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,697 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 14489
  • Joined: 04/30/2006
  • Location:Jacksonville, FL
GolfWRX Likes : 5013

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:37 PM

View Postgoobers80, on 23 August 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

The disrespect to me comes from comparing the two games. Women sports will never be as deep as the men's side for various / obvious reasons. I would however say as a female , playing any sport with guys makes you better. It is just how it is. That being said , many men are sexist still when it comes to these things. I see it everywhere we go. I honestly see it worse on the club level.

There's more women than men in the US. There's no reason women sports can't be every bit as deep. Will take time obviously but I think women's sports will look different top to bottom in 10-15 years.

13

#74 chocolate_rehab

chocolate_rehab

    look good, play good

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 655 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 381886
  • Joined: 06/22/2015
  • Location:Boston --> LA
GolfWRX Likes : 535

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:40 PM

View Postgoobers80, on 23 August 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

The disrespect to me comes from comparing the two games. Women sports will never be as deep as the men's side for various / obvious reasons. I could beat the hell out of some guys in a fight just as they would me. I would however say as a female , playing any sport with guys makes you better. It is just how it is. That being said , many men are sexist still when it comes to these things. I see it everywhere we go. I honestly see it worse on the club level.

I've been playing for a year, and I've heard variations of "a male X HCP golfer could beat an LPGA player" at least a dozen times. At least. It's ignorant and off-putting. You simply cannot compare one with the other on a professional level due to a myriad of physical and social factors which should be dumb dumb obvious. But golfers of ANY level should know that a 4 HCP is not coming anywhere near an LPGA player.

And yes, I also find it incredibly disrespectful.
Ping G400 SF Tec 12*
Ping G400 SF Tec 3w, 5w
Ping G400 4H
Ping G 6-UW with Recoil 760 ES
Callaway MD3 54* and PM 58*
Edel Columbia Custom

14

#75 Cape

Cape

    Tour Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 557 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 93992
  • Joined: 09/08/2009
  • Location:Buffalo/GTA
GolfWRX Likes : 34

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:41 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

A good high school golfer in FL  is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list.  The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

This is very surprising.. Would've never guessed


15

#76 MtlJeff

MtlJeff

    #TheWRX (Callaway Trip)

  • ClubWRX Charter Members
  • 19,344 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 68568
  • Joined: 11/01/2008
  • Location:Montreal
  • Handicap:1.0
GolfWRX Likes : 19180

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:43 PM

Pay determines everything. Women's sports will be as deep as men when the pay merits that they make the same sacrifices as men do to make it.

The 100th ranked LPGA woman has made 78000$ YTD, and then you have to discount expenses etc...

I know a lot of women who make that kind of money, and they are suffice to say, not the 100th best at their profession in the world.

The money isn't there for women, which is why there is imbalance
Callaway Epic SubZero 8 w/Diamana D+ 70
Callaway XR Pro 14 w/Diamana D+ 80
Callaway Steelhead XR 3 iron w/S300
Callaway Apex Pro 4-PW w/S300
Callaway MD Forged 52,56,60 w/S200
Odyssey Versa Works 1W Tank

16

#77 Jacob Mac

Jacob Mac

    Major Winner

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,732 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 108513
  • Joined: 05/25/2010
  • Location:Kansas City
GolfWRX Likes : 627

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:44 PM

View Postchocolate_rehab, on 23 August 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

View Postgoobers80, on 23 August 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

The disrespect to me comes from comparing the two games. Women sports will never be as deep as the men's side for various / obvious reasons. I could beat the hell out of some guys in a fight just as they would me. I would however say as a female , playing any sport with guys makes you better. It is just how it is. That being said , many men are sexist still when it comes to these things. I see it everywhere we go. I honestly see it worse on the club level.

I've been playing for a year, and I've heard variations of "a male X HCP golfer could beat an LPGA player" at least a dozen times. At least. It's ignorant and off-putting. You simply cannot compare one with the other on a professional level due to a myriad of physical and social factors which should be dumb dumb obvious. But golfers of ANY level should know that a 4 HCP is not coming anywhere near an LPGA player.

And yes, I also find it incredibly disrespectful.

Why?  It seems pretty self evident that the distance gap precludes women from being as good as men.  Not a knock on anyone, just a fact.

I get beat all the time bc I can't hit it out of my own shadow.  And if I play a couple tees up, I'm not playing the same game.  If you pointed out I'm not any good it isn't disrespectful, it is true.

17

#78 MtlJeff

MtlJeff

    #TheWRX (Callaway Trip)

  • ClubWRX Charter Members
  • 19,344 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 68568
  • Joined: 11/01/2008
  • Location:Montreal
  • Handicap:1.0
GolfWRX Likes : 19180

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:46 PM

View Postchocolate_rehab, on 23 August 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

View Postgoobers80, on 23 August 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

The disrespect to me comes from comparing the two games. Women sports will never be as deep as the men's side for various / obvious reasons. I could beat the hell out of some guys in a fight just as they would me. I would however say as a female , playing any sport with guys makes you better. It is just how it is. That being said , many men are sexist still when it comes to these things. I see it everywhere we go. I honestly see it worse on the club level.

I've been playing for a year, and I've heard variations of "a male X HCP golfer could beat an LPGA player" at least a dozen times. At least. It's ignorant and off-putting. You simply cannot compare one with the other on a professional level due to a myriad of physical and social factors which should be dumb dumb obvious. But golfers of ANY level should know that a 4 HCP is not coming anywhere near an LPGA player.

And yes, I also find it incredibly disrespectful.

It's not ignorant to say something that is true. Why pretend we are the same when we are not? Yes an X male handicap could beat an LPGA pro....so what?

Yes you can't compare the physical differences, that's why X male would beat the LPGA pro. It's not a shot at women. That's just the physical differences.

We don't need to pretend, we're all grown ups here and understand the differences. Not many posters are insulting women here.
Callaway Epic SubZero 8 w/Diamana D+ 70
Callaway XR Pro 14 w/Diamana D+ 80
Callaway Steelhead XR 3 iron w/S300
Callaway Apex Pro 4-PW w/S300
Callaway MD Forged 52,56,60 w/S200
Odyssey Versa Works 1W Tank

18

#79 TB07

TB07

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,133 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 223873
  • Joined: 01/24/2013
  • Location:Tampa,FL
GolfWRX Likes : 1346

Posted 23 August 2016 - 06:59 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 05:28 PM, said:

View PostEKELLY, on 23 August 2016 - 05:21 PM, said:

View Postcardoustie, on 23 August 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

4 capper gets killed

A tried and true male tourney +2 has a good shot, especially if they play 6800 yards.  Not sure at 6100 or 6200 to be honest

Didn't this thread get beat to death a few years back?
No, I don't have a shot unless she plays poorly, and I beat my handicap by 2.......

Then you aren't a +2.   Average LPGA player shoots between 72-73 from 6400 yards. A 4 wouldn't stand a chance but a +2 absolutely would beat the middle of the road LPGA player

What's the course rating playing at from 6400 and easier pins ? Generally speaking of course.

19

#80 chocolate_rehab

chocolate_rehab

    look good, play good

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 655 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 381886
  • Joined: 06/22/2015
  • Location:Boston --> LA
GolfWRX Likes : 535

Posted 23 August 2016 - 07:00 PM

View PostMtlJeff, on 23 August 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

Pay determines everything. Women's sports will be as deep as men when the pay merits that they make the same sacrifices as men do to make it.

The 100th ranked LPGA woman has made 78000$ YTD, and then you have to discount expenses etc...

I know a lot of women who make that kind of money, and they are suffice to say, not the 100th best at their profession in the world.

The money isn't there for women, which is why there is imbalance

View PostJacob Mac, on 23 August 2016 - 06:44 PM, said:

View Postchocolate_rehab, on 23 August 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

View Postgoobers80, on 23 August 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

The disrespect to me comes from comparing the two games. Women sports will never be as deep as the men's side for various / obvious reasons. I could beat the hell out of some guys in a fight just as they would me. I would however say as a female , playing any sport with guys makes you better. It is just how it is. That being said , many men are sexist still when it comes to these things. I see it everywhere we go. I honestly see it worse on the club level.

I've been playing for a year, and I've heard variations of "a male X HCP golfer could beat an LPGA player" at least a dozen times. At least. It's ignorant and off-putting. You simply cannot compare one with the other on a professional level due to a myriad of physical and social factors which should be dumb dumb obvious. But golfers of ANY level should know that a 4 HCP is not coming anywhere near an LPGA player.

And yes, I also find it incredibly disrespectful.

Why?  It seems pretty self evident that the distance gap precludes women from being as good as men.  Not a knock on anyone, just a fact.

I get beat all the time bc I can't hit it out of my own shadow.  And if I play a couple tees up, I'm not playing the same game.  If you pointed out I'm not any good it isn't disrespectful, it is true.

First of all, there are two separate things I'm jumping in on.

One, is this idea that men and women need to be judged from equal distances (playing off the same tee) - that is false. A few posters have mentioned playing off the red/women's tees and shooting better scores, etc. "I played from the women's tees and shot a 59.." etc. Well no s***, I play pretty great on kids 9-hole courses. That doesn't men a damned thing. I'm absolutely taking the physical differences between men and women into account by saying judging men and women against each other from the same distance is inherently unfair and no, women will never be able to compete there. It's an evolutionary fact - men have more muscle, strength, and less body fat than women on average which lends itself to an easier time generating power and distance. So for me, ANY discussion about men vs. women on the same tees is about as stupid as having Olympic softball players hit in little league stadiums. My argument is that any discussion that includes an argument like "well they shoot 6400.." or anything like that is stupid and sexist.

Two, I haven't seen anyone mention the fact that women's sports are a LONG way away from men's sports in terms of development, prestige, participation (the depth argument), and talent because women's sports have only been promoted, socially accepted, and properly funded relatively recently. I mean, this should be patently obvious. Culturally, women's sports have been (and continue to be) second class (interesting to study is Korean women's golf, which gets first class treatment in their country - and surprise, surprise, their female golfers are the best in the world right now). Historically girls weren't encouraged to go out and pursue athletics in the same manner and with the same zeal as men. Yes, this is changing, but it takes a long time to change the foundations of a sport. My grandmother didn't have "gym" class available to her. Even on a purely recreational level, my female friends (20s) play far less sports than men of our same age due to a myriad of factors.

My frustration comes from the ignorance of both above factors when male golfers jump into the "could beat an LPGA player" discussions, and the HUGE overestimation of the average male golfer's talent compared to a woman.

Edited by chocolate_rehab, 23 August 2016 - 07:04 PM.

Ping G400 SF Tec 12*
Ping G400 SF Tec 3w, 5w
Ping G400 4H
Ping G 6-UW with Recoil 760 ES
Callaway MD3 54* and PM 58*
Edel Columbia Custom

Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


Wanna get rid of this ugly yellow box? And remove other annoying "stuff" in between posts? Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

20

#81 TapIn4Dbl

TapIn4Dbl

    Member

  • ClubWRX Charter Members
  • 130 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 383444
  • Joined: 06/30/2015
  • Location:Saginaw, MI
GolfWRX Likes : 89

Posted 23 August 2016 - 07:10 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

A good high school golfer in FL  is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list.  The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

I respect what you do immensely but I have never read such an ignorant comment.  I really hope this is laced with sarcasm that I'm missing.

21

#82 iteachgolf

iteachgolf

    Legend

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,697 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 14489
  • Joined: 04/30/2006
  • Location:Jacksonville, FL
GolfWRX Likes : 5013

Posted 23 August 2016 - 07:10 PM

View PostTB07, on 23 August 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 05:28 PM, said:

View PostEKELLY, on 23 August 2016 - 05:21 PM, said:

View Postcardoustie, on 23 August 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

4 capper gets killed

A tried and true male tourney +2 has a good shot, especially if they play 6800 yards.  Not sure at 6100 or 6200 to be honest

Didn't this thread get beat to death a few years back?
No, I don't have a shot unless she plays poorly, and I beat my handicap by 2.......

Then you aren't a +2.   Average LPGA player shoots between 72-73 from 6400 yards. A 4 wouldn't stand a chance but a +2 absolutely would beat the middle of the road LPGA player

What's the course rating playing at from 6400 and easier pins ? Generally speaking of course.

Generally course ratings in the 70-72 range.

22

#83 TB07

TB07

    Hall of Fame

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,133 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 223873
  • Joined: 01/24/2013
  • Location:Tampa,FL
GolfWRX Likes : 1346

Posted 23 August 2016 - 07:15 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

View PostTB07, on 23 August 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 05:28 PM, said:

View PostEKELLY, on 23 August 2016 - 05:21 PM, said:

View Postcardoustie, on 23 August 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

4 capper gets killed

A tried and true male tourney +2 has a good shot, especially if they play 6800 yards.  Not sure at 6100 or 6200 to be honest

Didn't this thread get beat to death a few years back?
No, I don't have a shot unless she plays poorly, and I beat my handicap by 2.......

Then you aren't a +2.   Average LPGA player shoots between 72-73 from 6400 yards. A 4 wouldn't stand a chance but a +2 absolutely would beat the middle of the road LPGA player

What's the course rating playing at from 6400 and easier pins ? Generally speaking of course.

Generally course ratings in the 70-72 range.

So what handicap would you say the average/below average lpga player is? I'm thinking a 4 on a good day would at least come close on the lpga's bad day. Obviously not consistently but on a good day for the 4.

Edited by TB07, 23 August 2016 - 07:16 PM.


23

#84 chocolate_rehab

chocolate_rehab

    look good, play good

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 655 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 381886
  • Joined: 06/22/2015
  • Location:Boston --> LA
GolfWRX Likes : 535

Posted 23 August 2016 - 07:16 PM

View PostTapIn4Dbl, on 23 August 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

A good high school golfer in FL  is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list.  The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

I respect what you do immensely but I have never read such an ignorant comment.  I really hope this is laced with sarcasm that I'm missing.

I'd like to see stats to back this up. Not even being snarky, it just didn't sound right to me, having witnessed a high school state tournament and an LPGA tournament, though obviously my sample size is small.

I just checked the 2015-16 FHSAA State Series Golf Results and the 40th ranked boys junior scored a +16 (84 & 76) and the #100 ranked LPGA player, Celine Herbin, has these recent rounds:

Posted Image

Edited by chocolate_rehab, 23 August 2016 - 07:18 PM.

Ping G400 SF Tec 12*
Ping G400 SF Tec 3w, 5w
Ping G400 4H
Ping G 6-UW with Recoil 760 ES
Callaway MD3 54* and PM 58*
Edel Columbia Custom

24

#85 iteachgolf

iteachgolf

    Legend

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,697 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 14489
  • Joined: 04/30/2006
  • Location:Jacksonville, FL
GolfWRX Likes : 5013

Posted 23 August 2016 - 07:20 PM

View PostTapIn4Dbl, on 23 August 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

A good high school golfer in FL  is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list.  The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

I respect what you do immensely but I have never read such an ignorant comment.  I really hope this is laced with sarcasm that I'm missing.

Please explain how it is ignorant.  The cut line in 13-15 age group was +1 from 6700 yards.  The 16-18 year old kids played from 7100 yards and the winner was -12.   The LPGA player ranked 75-100 using the scoring averages (averages over 72 but less than 73) from the shorter and easier courses they play would have missed the cut in both age groups.  If we account for the yardage differences there's no chance the 75th-100th ranked woman would have made the cut.

I know a LPGA player that is ranked right in that range and have played with her and seen her play plenty of times. She's played with me and some mini tour players from 6900 yards and she shoots respectable scores.  But the high school team that practices at that same course, who had all 5 players shoot par or better in multiple tournaments, would have the same or better averages out there.  My statement is the opposite of ignorant.  It's based of real world experience and factual stats.


25

#86 iteachgolf

iteachgolf

    Legend

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,697 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 14489
  • Joined: 04/30/2006
  • Location:Jacksonville, FL
GolfWRX Likes : 5013

Posted 23 August 2016 - 07:21 PM

View PostTB07, on 23 August 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

View PostTB07, on 23 August 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 05:28 PM, said:

View PostEKELLY, on 23 August 2016 - 05:21 PM, said:

No, I don't have a shot unless she plays poorly, and I beat my handicap by 2.......

Then you aren't a +2.   Average LPGA player shoots between 72-73 from 6400 yards. A 4 wouldn't stand a chance but a +2 absolutely would beat the middle of the road LPGA player

What's the course rating playing at from 6400 and easier pins ? Generally speaking of course.

Generally course ratings in the 70-72 range.

So what handicap would you say the average/below average lpga player is? I'm thinking a 4 on a good day would at least come close on the lpga's bad day. Obviously not consistently but on a good day for the 4.

The one I know would be a 0 to +1 form the tips using men's rating.

26

#87 McCann1

McCann1

    Tour Player

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,061 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 410936
  • Joined: 02/03/2016
  • Location:Wilmington, NC
  • Ebay ID:igolfandguitar
GolfWRX Likes : 1359

Posted 23 August 2016 - 07:32 PM

It comes down to this. Put and LPGA pro and X handicap at 150 yards in the middle of the fairway on every hole. Who do you think shoots a lower score? I'm no rocket scientist but my money would be on the LPGA pro
Enjoy the chase.

27

#88 iteachgolf

iteachgolf

    Legend

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,697 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 14489
  • Joined: 04/30/2006
  • Location:Jacksonville, FL
GolfWRX Likes : 5013

Posted 23 August 2016 - 07:33 PM

View Postchocolate_rehab, on 23 August 2016 - 07:16 PM, said:

View PostTapIn4Dbl, on 23 August 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

A good high school golfer in FL  is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list.  The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

I respect what you do immensely but I have never read such an ignorant comment.  I really hope this is laced with sarcasm that I'm missing.

I'd like to see stats to back this up. Not even being snarky, it just didn't sound right to me, having witnessed a high school state tournament and an LPGA tournament, though obviously my sample size is small.

I just checked the 2015-16 FHSAA State Series Golf Results and the 40th ranked boys junior scored a +16 (84 & 76) and the #100 ranked LPGA player, Celine Herbin, has these recent rounds:

Posted Image

Didn't say high school championship, as there are many levels of high schools from A to AAAAA.  I'm talking Florida State Boys Junior.

Posted Image

Michael Mattiace has a tournament average close to the 100th ranked LPGA tour player, from courses 600-700 yards longer and is ranked 438th in the US and outside the top 50 in FL

28

#89 chocolate_rehab

chocolate_rehab

    look good, play good

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 655 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 381886
  • Joined: 06/22/2015
  • Location:Boston --> LA
GolfWRX Likes : 535

Posted 23 August 2016 - 07:35 PM

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 07:32 PM, said:

It comes down to this. Put and LPGA pro and X handicap at 150 yards in the middle of the fairway on every hole. Who do you think shoots a lower score? I'm no rocket scientist but my money would be on the LPGA pro

Exactly. Now put them in front of thousands of people and sponsors and it would be an undressing.
Ping G400 SF Tec 12*
Ping G400 SF Tec 3w, 5w
Ping G400 4H
Ping G 6-UW with Recoil 760 ES
Callaway MD3 54* and PM 58*
Edel Columbia Custom

29

#90 TapIn4Dbl

TapIn4Dbl

    Member

  • ClubWRX Charter Members
  • 130 posts
  •  
  • Member #: 383444
  • Joined: 06/30/2015
  • Location:Saginaw, MI
GolfWRX Likes : 89

Posted 23 August 2016 - 07:42 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

View PostTapIn4Dbl, on 23 August 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

A good high school golfer in FL  is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list.  The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

I respect what you do immensely but I have never read such an ignorant comment.  I really hope this is laced with sarcasm that I'm missing.

Please explain how it is ignorant.  The cut line in 13-15 age group was +1 from 6700 yards.  The 16-18 year old kids played from 7100 yards and the winner was -12.   The LPGA player ranked 75-100 using the scoring averages (averages over 72 but less than 73) from the shorter and easier courses they play would have missed the cut in both age groups.  If we account for the yardage differences there's no chance the 75th-100th ranked woman would have made the cut.

I know a LPGA player that is ranked right in that range and have played with her and seen her play plenty of times. She's played with me and some mini tour players from 6900 yards and she shoots respectable scores.  But the high school team that practices at that same course, who had all 5 players shoot par or better in multiple tournaments, would have the same or better averages out there.  My statement is the opposite of ignorant.  It's based of real world experience and factual stats.

Honestly, I can't even begin to think how to respond.  I'm seriously dumbfounded.  Closest I can come up with is I was a pretty good HS baseball player in my day.  My cousin pitched for the Italian Olympic softball team in Athens.  I was barely making contact when I stepped in the box against her.  Absolutely different, I know.  And like I said, I respect what you do.  I just cannot wrap my head around your stance.  I seriously feel like I'm being punk'd.  I sincerely hope in the time I've taken to respond, more facts have been brought up to support your stance that the 30th best FL high school golfer on a particular day is better than not only the top D1 women but the 100th ranked LPGA player.  I have to believe the LPGA is just a pubic hair tougher than a high school tournament.


Remove This Advertisement Viewing As Guest

    GolfWRX Forums

    Advertisement


Wanna get rid of this ugly yellow box? And remove other annoying "stuff" in between posts? Create a FREE GolfWRX account here.

30



1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

GolfWRX Sponsors