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Can a 4-handicap man beat an LPGA pro?


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#31 pinhigh27

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 03:57 PM

much bigger talent difference than Day vs avg pga tour player. we did the stats a long time ago and I think it was like 2.5 shots/ round separated pga tour avg from #1. It was 5.5 for lpga

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#32 McCann1

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:07 PM

View Postwobgon, on 23 August 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

No they can't get the ball up and down like nobody else.......LPGA chipping and putting is not as good as PGA tour.    Just a fact.
I did not compare their short game to the PGA tour, I compared distance. Distance helps a ton on the PGA, not as much on the LPGA. The ladies still can get the ball up and down better than most of the golfing population
Enjoy the chase.

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#33 McCann1

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:09 PM

View Postpinhigh27, on 23 August 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

totally wrong. their short games are atrocious relative to PGA tour players. the short game difference is the biggest gap between PGA and LPGA, distance is not.

They have incredibly easy course set ups relative to the pga tour.
you are totally wrong when it comes to the comprehension of my post

But anyways going with your post. Lexi Thompson leads the LPGA with a roughly 280 yard driving average. Dustin Johnson leads the PGA with 314. Lydia Ko leads the LPGA with a putts per GIR of about 28. Jordan spieth leads at about 27. So based on your claim, 34 yards off of the tee is not a bigger gap than 1 putt? Please explain further

Edited by McCann1, 23 August 2016 - 04:13 PM.

Enjoy the chase.

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#34 thegooddoctor

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:10 PM

as i said in an earlier post, women versus man shooting same score from the same tees would equal a higher differential for the man correct? Thus HC from the same tees for women versus men are not really apples to apples. IE a male 4 could be a scratch women from the same tee. Still think a 4 gets handed his lunch by a pro 19 outta 20 times
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#35 Santiago Golf

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:14 PM

Maybe 1 in 100 tries. They are going to have a bad day and you going to catch lightning in bottle and career it out there.

But to be honest, no not even that.

The difference between the your club +2-+6 handicaps and tour pros is that the tour pros handicap travels and the range of scores is alot tighter and bottom heavy.

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#36 thegooddoctor

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:15 PM

i found this post helpful http://golf.about.co..._manvwoman.htm.
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#37 pinhigh27

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:21 PM

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 04:09 PM, said:

View Postpinhigh27, on 23 August 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

totally wrong. their short games are atrocious relative to PGA tour players. the short game difference is the biggest gap between PGA and LPGA, distance is not.

They have incredibly easy course set ups relative to the pga tour.
you are totally wrong when it comes to the comprehension of my post

But anyways going with your post. Lexi Thompson leads the LPGA with a roughly 280 yard driving average. Dustin Johnson leads the PGA with 314. Lydia Ko leads the LPGA with a putts per GIR of about 28. Jordan spieth leads at about 27. So based on your claim, 34 yards off of the tee is not a bigger gap than 1 putt? Please explain further

that comparison makes no sense. the course set ups are completely different.
How to be in better shape for golf?
Become a better athlete.
Don't worry about golf specific.
Compound lifts w/ linear progress
Don't forget the mobility work.
More results, more functional

Spin is not your enemy, everything is a trade-off.
17 * 1700 goes really far, but doesn't go very straight or consistent
8* 3500 goes really straight, but doesn't go very far
Answer for most is somewhere in the middle.
Pga tour driver avg launch conditions: 11* 2700

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#38 iteachgolf

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:30 PM

A good high school golfer in FL  is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list.  The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

Edited by iteachgolf, 23 August 2016 - 04:31 PM.


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#39 BenHoganSlam1953

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:30 PM

View PostSoCalTitleist, on 23 August 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

I don't get why so many people think the LPGA pros are just  average golfers .

But it is not people that think that - just your average male golfer with visions of grandeur - you know, cause guys are always better than girls at sports - no matter how big his extra tire is ...
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#40 wobgon

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:31 PM

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 04:07 PM, said:

View Postwobgon, on 23 August 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

No they can't get the ball up and down like nobody else.......LPGA chipping and putting is not as good as PGA tour. Just a fact.
I did not compare their short game to the PGA tour, I compared distance. Distance helps a ton on the PGA, not as much on the LPGA. The ladies still can get the ball up and down better than most of the golfing population
So do you agree that chipping and putting is not as good on lpga as pga?


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#41 BenHoganSlam1953

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:37 PM

View PostCallawayLefty, on 23 August 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

I went to an LPGA event a couple years ago.  They were the 3rd best players I've ever seen behind (1) PGA players and (2) web.com players.  Maybe elite level amateurs and mini tours would have some chance to contend with them.  But scratch players, your average +1 or +2, and most certainly a 4 handicap, have absolutely no chance whatsoever.  Your average +1 or +2 would make an occasional cut on the LPGA.  Nobody worse than that would even be close.  It's hilarious that some people would even think that a 4 handicap could do anything close to what LPGA tour players do.  How in the hell is a guy who probably averages 82 going to go shoot 71 from a tournament prepared 6,600 yard course.  No chance.  

You have no idea how good pro golfers are.  Male or female - doesn't matter.  They're really, really good.  And if you don't understand how good they are, it probably means that you yourself just aren't good enough at golf to get it.

Very true - the better I get the more I appreciate what the professionals and elite amateur golfers are able to do so regularly. Also, people seem to forget that these very same PGA/LPGA golfers that struggle on tour often cut through your average non-tournament course situation like a knife through butter. It may look like the same golf we play, but it isn't.
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#42 McCann1

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:45 PM

View Postwobgon, on 23 August 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 04:07 PM, said:

View Postwobgon, on 23 August 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

No they can't get the ball up and down like nobody else.......LPGA chipping and putting is not as good as PGA tour.    Just a fact.
I did not compare their short game to the PGA tour, I compared distance. Distance helps a ton on the PGA, not as much on the LPGA. The ladies still can get the ball up and down better than most of the golfing population
So do you agree that chipping and putting is not as good on lpga as pga?
Yes but not by a lot. The best on the LPGA are still better than the average PGA pro
Enjoy the chase.

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#43 MtlJeff

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:46 PM

View Postwobgon, on 23 August 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

View PostHot Rod 71, on 23 August 2016 - 03:39 PM, said:

View PostMtlJeff, on 23 August 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

A 4 handicap means on a fairly normal course the guy is shooting 75-79 or whatever as his good scores.  That's maybe like a fairly benign 6500-6600yd course at the end of the day.  

LPGA player would crush a 4 handicap

A top 100 LPGA player would most likely  win our club championship and our course is 6700yds 75/140. The winning score is usually around +5. I think barring unusually poor play they would beat that.  Or at least be the heavy favourite every year

The LPGA plays at Kingsmill every year, a course not to far from me. A friend of mine who is a scratch golfer (+2) just played in the PGA Asst championship there and shot 78. I think the worst players on the LPGA can do better than that.
A true +2 shooting 78 at kingsmill had a bad day........We used to play it from the same tees the LPGA played after the tournament, and had quite a few scores under par.

But the thread is about 4's and not +2's

I mean you knew that i'm sure but we just don't want to sidetrack. There's a big difference between a +2 and a 4.

I have maybe 10 friends at my club that are between a 3.5-5 index and i don't think any of them have shot under par at our club this entire season from the back tees, which are about 6700yds and like i mentioned about 75/140

An LPGA pro would do it several times i would imagine
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#44 McCann1

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:49 PM

View Postpinhigh27, on 23 August 2016 - 04:21 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 04:09 PM, said:

View Postpinhigh27, on 23 August 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

totally wrong. their short games are atrocious relative to PGA tour players. the short game difference is the biggest gap between PGA and LPGA, distance is not.

They have incredibly easy course set ups relative to the pga tour.
you are totally wrong when it comes to the comprehension of my post

But anyways going with your post. Lexi Thompson leads the LPGA with a roughly 280 yard driving average. Dustin Johnson leads the PGA with 314. Lydia Ko leads the LPGA with a putts per GIR of about 28. Jordan spieth leads at about 27. So based on your claim, 34 yards off of the tee is not a bigger gap than 1 putt? Please explain further

that comparison makes no sense. the course set ups are completely different.
how so? The only difference that is really glaring to me is length of rough and of the course. Both of which have little bearing on a players distance off of the tee and how many putts they make per round.
Enjoy the chase.

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#45 iteachgolf

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:51 PM

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

View Postwobgon, on 23 August 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 04:07 PM, said:

View Postwobgon, on 23 August 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

No they can't get the ball up and down like nobody else.......LPGA chipping and putting is not as good as PGA tour.    Just a fact.
I did not compare their short game to the PGA tour, I compared distance. Distance helps a ton on the PGA, not as much on the LPGA. The ladies still can get the ball up and down better than most of the golfing population
So do you agree that chipping and putting is not as good on lpga as pga?
Yes but not by a lot. The best on the LPGA are still better than the average PGA pro

Not even close.  The hole locations and green conditions are WAY easier on the LPGA tour than PGA tour.  You can't compare stats in completely different conditions.  Rough is longer, greens are faster and firmer.


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#46 pinhigh27

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:52 PM

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:

View Postpinhigh27, on 23 August 2016 - 04:21 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 04:09 PM, said:

View Postpinhigh27, on 23 August 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

totally wrong. their short games are atrocious relative to PGA tour players. the short game difference is the biggest gap between PGA and LPGA, distance is not.

They have incredibly easy course set ups relative to the pga tour.
you are totally wrong when it comes to the comprehension of my post

But anyways going with your post. Lexi Thompson leads the LPGA with a roughly 280 yard driving average. Dustin Johnson leads the PGA with 314. Lydia Ko leads the LPGA with a putts per GIR of about 28. Jordan spieth leads at about 27. So based on your claim, 34 yards off of the tee is not a bigger gap than 1 putt? Please explain further

that comparison makes no sense. the course set ups are completely different.
how so? The only difference that is really glaring to me is length of rough and of the course. Both of which have little bearing on a players distance off of the tee and how many putts they make per round.

put them on 13 stimp greens and you will see more headscratchers than a girls jv basketball game
How to be in better shape for golf?
Become a better athlete.
Don't worry about golf specific.
Compound lifts w/ linear progress
Don't forget the mobility work.
More results, more functional

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17 * 1700 goes really far, but doesn't go very straight or consistent
8* 3500 goes really straight, but doesn't go very far
Answer for most is somewhere in the middle.
Pga tour driver avg launch conditions: 11* 2700

16

#47 Hawkeye77

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:54 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

A good high school golfer in FL  is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list.  The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

Not even a "great" high school golfer but just a "good" one?

A bit of a stretch there.

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#48 iteachgolf

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:03 PM

View PostHawkeye77, on 23 August 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

A good high school golfer in FL  is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list.  The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

Not even a "great" high school golfer but just a "good" one?

A bit of a stretch there.

How do you figure?

The 75th scoring average on LPGA Tour is over 72 and the 100th is nearly 73.   And that's from 6400 yards.  

The 8th and 9th graders played from 6700 yards and the cut was 1 over.  Most would have missed the cut even if they shot their same average on a longer tougher course.  The upper class man played from nearly 7100 yards.  They'd have to of shot their same average they did at 6400 yards at 7100 yards just to come in top 20.  If anything I was being optimistic. No way they finish in top 60 of the 16-18 age group. And they'd miss the cut in the lower age group.   The winner shot -12.

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#49 Hawkeye77

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:06 PM

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

View PostHawkeye77, on 23 August 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

A good high school golfer in FL  is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list.  The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

Not even a "great" high school golfer but just a "good" one?

A bit of a stretch there.

How do you figure?

The 75th scoring average on LPGA Tour is over 72 and the 100th is nearly 73.   And that's from 6400 yards.  

The 8th and 9th graders played from 6700 yards and the cut was 1 over.  Most would have missed the cut even if they shot their same average on a longer tougher course.  The upper class man played from nearly 7100 yards.  They'd have to of shot their same average they did at 6400 yards at 7100 yards just to come in top 20.  If anything I was being optimistic. No way they finish in top 60 of the 16-18 age group. And they'd miss the cut in the lower age group.   The winner shot -12.

Where did they play? Just curious.

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#50 baloo

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:11 PM

No not even close.
Didn't read the whole thread but I assume it's a bunch of no's.

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#51 notsohard

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:12 PM

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

View Postwobgon, on 23 August 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 04:07 PM, said:

View Postwobgon, on 23 August 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

LPGA pros are some of the best short game players and putters in the world. Distance doesn't matter on that tour as much as PGA. They can get the ball up and down like nobody else and for that reason alone would destroy a 4 handicapper because those are the type that have their game somewhat together but can't get the ball in the hole quick enough

No they can't get the ball up and down like nobody else.......LPGA chipping and putting is not as good as PGA tour. Just a fact.
I did not compare their short game to the PGA tour, I compared distance. Distance helps a ton on the PGA, not as much on the LPGA. The ladies still can get the ball up and down better than most of the golfing population
So do you agree that chipping and putting is not as good on lpga as pga?
Yes but not by a lot. The best on the LPGA are still better than the average PGA pro

LOL!!!!!!!

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#52 iteachgolf

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:13 PM

View PostHawkeye77, on 23 August 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

View PostHawkeye77, on 23 August 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 23 August 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

A good high school golfer in FL  is about the same as an LPGA tour player fighting to keep her card, say 75-100 on money list.  The LPGA player would finish around 30-40th in the boys junior, maybe.

Not even a "great" high school golfer but just a "good" one?

A bit of a stretch there.

How do you figure?

The 75th scoring average on LPGA Tour is over 72 and the 100th is nearly 73.   And that's from 6400 yards.  

The 8th and 9th graders played from 6700 yards and the cut was 1 over.  Most would have missed the cut even if they shot their same average on a longer tougher course.  The upper class man played from nearly 7100 yards.  They'd have to of shot their same average they did at 6400 yards at 7100 yards just to come in top 20.  If anything I was being optimistic. No way they finish in top 60 of the 16-18 age group. And they'd miss the cut in the lower age group.   The winner shot -12.

Where did they play? Just curious.

St. John's Golf and CC where first stage of Q school is held.  And King and the Bear which hosted a Champions Tour event.  Plenty of high schools shoot double digits under par as a team and a 2 handicap wouldn't make the team.

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#53 EKELLY

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:14 PM

I'm gonna open a store, and sell clues........A scratch player would get waxed by your average Tour pro........Obviously anyone with doubts has never played with anyone on that level........Thats' HILARIOUS!!!!!........FYI, your average Tour player, even LPGA is at least a +4, everywhere.....

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#54 Moonlightgrm

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:15 PM

My home course has hosted an LPGA event for four years. I am a three handicap that travels well. Frankly, after watching these talented women play my course, there is no way I would beat them over four days. Even though I play my course at 600 yards longer than they play it, their talent level is truly amazing. If you haven't seen them play in person, do yourself a favor and attend an LPGA event.

Breakdown: They'll hit more fairways and they'll hit their approach shots closer to the hole. They will get it up and down more frequently than most top amateur golfers. Put your ego in check. These woman can truly play!

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#55 McCann1

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:15 PM

The LPGA is not getting enough credit, clearly.

Enjoy the chase.

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#56 chocolate_rehab

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:19 PM

View PostSoCalTitleist, on 23 August 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

I don't get why so many people think the LPGA pros are just  average golfers .

It's absurd and it's such a huge golf turnoff for me, I can't even tell you.

My girlfriend worked with a woman who I would say was an "average" LPGA player, and she wiped the floor with two guys with HCPs of 2 and 3 -- nevermind a 4 HCP. Again,  4HCP would get absolutely waxed, smoked, and embarrassed by an LPGA Tour player. I wish I had disposable millions because I swear I'd pay the money to watch it happen to anyone that was up for a beating.

And no s***, Sherlocks, men would/will fare better in longer courses. Physiology is at work there, which is why male and female athletics are separate to begin with. I really don't get the need to feel superior to female professional golfers.

Edited by chocolate_rehab, 23 August 2016 - 05:20 PM.

Ping G400 SF Tec 12*
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Ping G 6-UW with Recoil 760 ES
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Edel Columbia Custom

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#57 EKELLY

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:21 PM

View Postcardoustie, on 23 August 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

4 capper gets killed

A tried and true male tourney +2 has a good shot, especially if they play 6800 yards.  Not sure at 6100 or 6200 to be honest

Didn't this thread get beat to death a few years back?
No, I don't have a shot unless she plays poorly, and I beat my handicap by 2.......

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#58 iteachgolf

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:22 PM

View PostMcCann1, on 23 August 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

The LPGA is not getting enough credit, clearly.

How do you figure? Some of use have played with and experienced exactly how good LPGA Tour players are. Some of us have even taught them.

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#59 pinhigh27

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:23 PM

No one said they're average.  Scratch is like 95th+%.  I don't think anyone thinks a 4 would beat an avg lpga tour player.  Make it scratxh and it's a different story.

You guys are drastically underestimating the difference in talent between the studs and avg lpga players. We're not saying scratxh kid will beat ko.  Look at the stats,  they aren't even close.  Again it's literally 4 shots a round between ko and avg lpga tour player.

Edit it's 4 shots just looked

Edited by pinhigh27, 23 August 2016 - 05:33 PM.

How to be in better shape for golf?
Become a better athlete.
Don't worry about golf specific.
Compound lifts w/ linear progress
Don't forget the mobility work.
More results, more functional

Spin is not your enemy, everything is a trade-off.
17 * 1700 goes really far, but doesn't go very straight or consistent
8* 3500 goes really straight, but doesn't go very far
Answer for most is somewhere in the middle.
Pga tour driver avg launch conditions: 11* 2700

29

#60 iteachgolf

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:28 PM

View PostEKELLY, on 23 August 2016 - 05:21 PM, said:

View Postcardoustie, on 23 August 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

4 capper gets killed

A tried and true male tourney +2 has a good shot, especially if they play 6800 yards.  Not sure at 6100 or 6200 to be honest

Didn't this thread get beat to death a few years back?
No, I don't have a shot unless she plays poorly, and I beat my handicap by 2.......

Then you aren't a +2.   Average LPGA player shoots between 72-73 from 6400 yards. A 4 wouldn't stand a chance but a +2 absolutely would beat the middle of the road LPGA player


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