[matadorseve]

Very sad - the world's number one who really, really looked out of sorts this week. I used to admire his swing but a previous poster hit the nail on the head. Wildly opens it up on the back swing - flat bowed wrist at the top and a looping follow through. It looks like he is constantly fighting the wild shot our right. Sam torrance mentioned that his right shoulder is riding high in the follow through. A sure sign that he's not clearing on the way through.

Tiger get back with Butch - more upright and straight up and down the plane. Haney has got Tiger more rounded and flatter which frankly is looking very ugly.

Rant over - very disappointed to see this happen. He's the best and it shouldn't.

thoughts?

[B T JUSTICE]

Looked to be losing height at the top of his backswing, then gaining height in his downswing + a bit trapped.

Hard to be critical of the guy though, he is the best ever.

That said, Butch Harmon must be quite amused by all this, Tiger doesnt look like half the swinger he was under Harmons eye.

[kentutz]

+1!!

[Mike Ju]

Please, please go back with butch. I wonder how that would work... getting back with an ex can be messy...

[lagwagon23]

You guys might wanna put on your helmets and flak jackets.

[Mward2002]

1. Ruined his knee under Harmon
2. Has won more majors under Haney than Harmon in the same time frame
3. Only had X shots under Harmon, and didn't like the lack of shot making ability

Sorry, 3 strikes.

[lagwagon23]

Mward2002, on Jul 17 2009, 12:48 PM, said:

1. Ruined his knee under Harmon
2. Has won more majors under Haney than Harmon in the same time frame
3. Only had X shots under Harmon, and didn't like the lack of shot making ability

Sorry, 3 strikes.

Tiger's knee, as stated by Tiger himself, was damaged well before Harmon. Tiger snapped his knee even while under Haney up until the surgery.

[Mward2002]

He's been with Harmon since US Amateur days remember? Knee problems were stemmed during then.

[desaille]

next stop
Leadbetter

:P

[lagwagon23]

Mward2002, on Jul 17 2009, 12:54 PM, said:

He's been with Harmon since US Amateur days remember? Knee problems were stemmed during then.

I'm not advocating a return to Harmon.

[jlin453]

Didn't Tiger say that Hank didn't make the trip, but he was OK with that since he understands his swing more than before?

[Mward2002]

It's cool, never thought you were. I just don't think Harmon would be the end all problems fix like half the board thinks it would be.

Let's ask Adam Scott, Ernie and Phil how many majors they've won since being with Butch.

[cigarnut81]

I think Tiger is building his own swing & just likes to have Hank as his eyes to help him! I do not think this swing is built by Haney!

[robb01]

cigarnut81, on Jul 17 2009, 03:01 PM, said:

I think Tiger is building his own swing & just likes to have Hank as his eyes to help him! I do not think this swing is built by Haney!

same, from what I've heard him say, he seems to know what is best for him

[Lefty17]

Since Hank, Tiger's 3wd before was a money club. Now he's swinging that just like his driver. I've never seen Tiger miss 3wd's like that before. It's happened all year.

Butch would be the choice I would recommend. I don't recall Tiger ever having these kinda of really poor ball striking touney's like he's having under Hank. I was never sold on Hank to begin with even before he hooked up with Tiger.

[Shanks For The Memories]

2 missed cuts at majors in only 13 years... Pitiful. Who can honeslty say that they have missed that many cuts in majors. I know I sure haven't.



By the way:

[AcesAZ]

He never got stuck or very rarely with the shorter compact Butch swing. He gets long and stuck all the time with this Haney turd swing. Hes won since Butch because he has elite talent, the best mental game and supreme short game/putting, not becuase of Haney at all.

[dlygrisse]

Mward2002, on Jul 17 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

He's been with Harmon since US Amateur days remember? Knee problems were stemmed during then.

I heard Tiger say in an interview he originally hurt the knee as a teenager in a skateboarding or bicycle accident, then made it worse when he twisted it while jogging across the course at Isleworth. Point is I dont think Harmon ruined his knee, I mean does Harmon have any other students with bad left knees?

[alittleoverpar]

desaille, on Jul 17 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

next stop
Leadbetter

:P

[Lefty17]

AcesAZ, on Jul 17 2009, 04:13 PM, said:

He never got stuck or very rarely with the shorter compact Butch swing. He gets long and stuck all the time with this Haney turd swing. Hes won since Butch because he has elite talent, the best mental game and supreme short game/putting, not becuase of Haney at all.

I remember Hank saying he would never get stuck with this golf swing.

That maybe one of the reason why he left Butch was because of getting stuck here and there.

Even Leadbetter could ruin Tigers career

[Mward2002]

Ernie Els, but I don't remember which knee he tore. Judging by your post, I'm going to assume Ernie tore his right knee in his skiing accident.

Any chance he coulda just had ya know.. A bad week swingin the club? Combine that with wet and windy conditions like he also had at the US Open and voila.. You get a poor result.

[BigPete]

Who's that 12 year old that lives in Kenny Perry's pocket? He seems to talk alot of sense...

[hammerheel]

Wow. So quick to jump on him. Does anybody remember the AT&T National? That was only 2 weeks ago.

[cvn72]

If tiger is going to get to Hogans ability(which is what he is doing) he better straighten that swing out.

To me it look like he is trying to have Hogan's move through the ball....but he is taking the club up and out too much on the backswing.

Flatten it.

[produffer]

drive for show, putt for dough...

haney for show, butch for dough!

and while you're at it, bring back Fluff!!!

[jowwy]

when he won the US Open 2008 he was with hank, when he won the memorial he was with hank, when he won the AT&T he was with hank and so on it goes...............tiger had a bad weekend, we all have them, his just get highlighted more......

do we tell phil mick, els, scott, paddy, casey, furyk, perry....and so on...to leave their coaches when they have a bad week....i think not, tiger isn't world N0.1 for nothing.........he'll sort it out and watch out when he does, then all we will be hearing is how boring it is seeing him win all the time.....the guy gets flamed whatever he does

and yeh i'm a tiger fan and spent the last two days watching him play dreadful golf, but it happens and it will happen again, but i also beleive he'll win many more tourneys with hank as coach than any WRXER on here........

end of rant, day three tmrw

[BigSwooshDuffer]

These posts are hilarious............quite entertaining and very much a lot of BS

[Golfcat]

I have no skin in the game...don't like swing coaches, psychologists, ets...

I do have to admit that Tigers swing is not looking like a player of his caliber. He swings too hard with his woods, and tries to lift his irons too high. Some of his best looking shots nowadays are those half wedges that he is hitting tight. His swing, under control, is a beautiful thing.

What I am watching now is not a beautiful thing...

FWIW
Patrick

[Money03]

lol... let's revisit this in a year. dude's on a new knee working through s***. sucks he won't be around for the weekend... but just give him time. and the swings with comments on him are entertaining just to come into these threads.

hits all his fairways... can't be beat OMG!... misses cut.. what an awful swing... fire haney! some of you are certainly consistent... but the overreaction of others is very entertaining.

tiger f'd up and it sucks he won't be around. as stated he's still in a new phase of his career... it takes tiiiimmmeeee

and also... how do you get rid off?

[tyler_smith51]

These posts are pretty funny. As of this moment Jack Nicklaus is the greatest player to ever play, Tiger will be someday and I am sure (did not look it up) Jack may have missed a cut or 2 in a major but I could be wrong. It just goes to show how the media and public perception has raised the bar so high, Tiger cant not even reach it. I am a Tiger fan but I think missing the cut here is what he needed. It gives him perspective hopefully in the end it's still golf not a scientific event.

I have noticed over the years with Tiger, he has become more of a scientist, trying to dissect the course almost too much. Case in point, look at what he did at Memorial, found a way to get in the fairway (he choked up on the driver, hit controlled 3wds...etc). He is trying to become way to precise. He has every shot from every angle, find the fairway and hit the green, eventually he will him some really stiff and he will make putts. Tiger right now has forgotten the game and is, in my opinion, too technical. He will figure it out.

You also have to remember that Hank was a Hogan fan and therefore will teach the Hogan swing. Tiger's swing is fine, he is just out thinking himself which I never thought was possible.

It happens to me although on a far less shot making degree. When I settle back in and "play" I work myself back out.

Just my thoughts, Tiger is fine, he does not need Butch, Leadbetter, Smith, Flick, McLean...etc.

[MG 1977]

jowwy The Weekend starts in the morning Tiger can still have a good one. He's in Scotland, the home of golf... maybe he could take a trip over to St.Andrews and visit some of the musem's or even caddy for somebody on the Old Course! only yanking your chain pal.

For me Tiger missing the cut is nothing to do with his swing. It's the same swing that hit every fairway at the AT&T in the final round a couple of weeks back. I think Tiger has the same problem as me. Since my Mum died roughly the same time as Tiger's father, I have had real anger problems on the golf course. I've played since I was a junior and had never thrown a club up until my Mum died. Now I get very angry very quickly and just can't help myself throwing clubs??? Controling my anger is what I'm trying to do and personally I think thats his biggest problem at the moment his temper.

[jowwy]

i think it's beacause he left his Wii motion plus controller in his hotel room, he sure its fairways with that........

[Double Gee]

BigSwooshDuffer, on Jul 17 2009, 03:42 PM, said:

These posts are hilarious............quite entertaining and very much a lot of BS

+1


Woods is not God, so a few bad games and the world does not end..... n one and I mean no one can keep going week in and week out performing at the top level.

Woods as phenomenal that he is, has been so lucky over quite a few games where he misses fairways but recovers - plus he has lost a lot of muscle bulk after his knee lay off.....

He will be back so please please please come out of mourning AND GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GolfChannel]

matadorseve, on Jul 17 2009, 02:58 PM, said:

Very sad - the world's number one who really, really looked out of sorts this week. I used to admire his swing but a previous poster hit the nail on the head. Wildly opens it up on the back swing - flat bowed wrist at the top and a looping follow through. It looks like he is constantly fighting the wild shot our right. Sam torrance mentioned that his right shoulder is riding high in the follow through. A sure sign that he's not clearing on the way through.

Tiger get back with Butch - more upright and straight up and down the plane. Haney has got Tiger more rounded and flatter which frankly is looking very ugly.

Rant over - very disappointed to see this happen. He's the best and it shouldn't.

thoughts?

Yeah, after today the first thing I thought of was what was the over/under on Haney making it out of this month as Tiger's coach.

So who does he move to?

[Babydaddy]

It's interesting that we don't see as much written about the type of general approach that a certain instructor brings as much as the week to week play of their top students.
I saw a Golf Magazine/SI annual survey where they asked the PGA players who were the most overrated teachers in golf. Much to my surprise, Harvey Penick was in the "also received votes" category.
I asked myself, who the hell would ever say HE was overrated. I ask myself and you fellow WRXers out there, what do you judge an instructor by?
In Penick's case, 7 of the first 12 LPGA hall of famers were his students, including 2 of the best and arguably best females in Mickey Wright and Kathy Whitworth. How many teachers can say that?
Not to mention Kite and Crenshaw, as well as countless others who were impacted in a number of ways outside of golf. I have compiled information and interviewed proteges of Penick's (I am writing a book, go ahead and chuckle out loud) and I have heard from former students and people who are now renowned teachers in their own right, and you can't imagine the impact he had on these people in every way.
So, how do you know if an instructor is good or overrated? Let me say that there are many excellent instructors out there that you will never hear of. Just because someone doesn't have a stable full of tour winners doesn't mean that they aren't excellent.
Further, anybody who spends time on the practice range helping people knows it's the beginners and 15 handicappers who have tried everything under the sun that are the real challenge. Those are the real heros of instruction- people who help the rest of the golfers enjoy the game.
Some teachers are technical and theoretical in their approach and some are more what I call healers and medicine men (or women). Each teacher is a little different and each student responds differently, it's a relationship.

I personally feel that Harvey Penick was the most complete and helpful golf teacher ever, but he wasn't for everyone.

Butch Harmon is more of a healer than a technician. He teaches shots and tells stories. Tiger spoke more about strategy and shots under Harmon than he does now, and I think working with a healer like Harmon lends itself to playing more with the creative side of the brain. You develop shots like a cut 4 wood out of rough, and the stinger, etc...

To a healer like Harmon or Penick, once you achieve a certain level of proficiency all that's left is maintenance and keeping your mind in the game. Butch has been around more legends of the game than anyone. He grew up playing with his dad and people like Hogan, Johnny Revolta, Tommy Armour, etc...
He got to ask those guys how they hit shots; not to mention his dad, who was a GREAT player.

Haney is more technical and interested in swing plane and perfection.

I think Tiger got bored with hitting the same shots and wanted to delve into theory. A genius like Tiger can do anything, and so why not try to achieve perfection. A guy like Butch will say something like "so you had a crappy day for you, so what, let's look at your shoulder alignment at address".
A guy like Tiger could outgrow that sort of thing and want to try to achieve a new level.
Haney has interesting thoughts about what it means to be in position with the club, and on paper, it sounds cool.

Regardless of whether or not what he teaches works or not, I won't say. What I will say is that the stretch where Tiger was rocking it like 2006-2007 his caddie said that he was using the imaginative part of his brain and envisioning the way he wanted to swing, and that his awesome run started with less practice and more visualization.
There is a lesson for all of us in that- you have to play with the creative part of your brain.
If you have a technical teacher, and you are talented, you can shift over to a more technical mindset and in essence, playing golf becomes less strategic and more about validating the technical stuff you are working on.

None of us know what it's like to be Tiger, but he is still a human, and the same basic rules of performance apply to him as well. As long as he is playing practice range on the course, he won't look like the dominant player we've come to expect.

It takes some maturity to listen to a simple guy like a Penick or a Butch Harmon for most normal people, and for super-naturally gifted guys like Tiger, I'm sure it feels like they are settling when someone gives them the simple answer day in and day out.

Noelsy

[yellowlab]

desaille, on Jul 17 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

next stop
Leadbetter

:P

[Sooner1]

I think he should hire Jimmy Fallen as his swing coach....Fallen did beat him at his own game.....

[Ruleschamp]

Yes, most definitely. Go back to Butch, Tiger. You can then win as many majors as he's won for Adam Scott.............

[djames]

The swing he brought to Turnberry doesn't even look like the swing he's been working on with Haney. That squating, lifting up to save the shot business is not what Haney is teaching, Tiger is not executing.

i don't know if he needs to change coaches or not, quite frankly none of us do, but we shouldn't blame it on Haney...I also think the last thing Tiger needs right now is ANOTHER major swing overhaul. All he has to do is work on his clubface/wrist angles and stop that ridiculous squating move that is causing him to have to stand up and scoop.

[Mikeystef77]

Tiger should go Stack and Tilt! Andy and Mike would fix him up!

Fire away on that for while!