[soberguy16]

for those interested, theyre showing nicklaus vs snead at pebble back in the day on CBS right now...just came across it and maybe there are some people interested

[cubfanbob]

Wow - the course looks like a cow pasture compared to today.

[etsix]

its pretty sweet i have never seen that course in that old fashion layout

[Diesel]

man, that's old school...

i wonder what those guys could have done with todays technology...

[bayway]

It's pretty nice to see this converted into a HD format, really like watching the Shell series.

[mikethedog]

How about those fore caddies running out into the fairway along side the still bouncing ball to post the flag...I'm working the US Amateur this year, I think I resurrect that practice.

[Diesel]

Jack has got one of the oddest voices ever... it was even more squeaky back then...

[hoganfan924]

cubfanbob, on Jul 12 2009, 02:37 PM, said:

Wow - the course looks like a cow pasture compared to today.

Yea, pretty dumpy. Funny how Jack said that there were "daisies growing in the fairways!" The greens looked like they stimped about a 7 or 8, and there were tons of bare spots all over.

Pretty cool to see those guys hitting 1 and 2 irons and seeing Jack smash the balata with a persimmon out there 290!!

[mrhills0146]

Notice the nice tight low draw that Snead hit with a 1i a couple of times.

Contrast that with the towering 1i that Nicklaus hit at least 2x in that round!

Really cool that they showed this match today. Nicklaus' power was impressive. Anyone heading out to play would be well served in watching some footage of Snead hitting balls right before you play. What a fantastic looking swing.

[scarywoody]

I wish they'd convert more of these to DVD. On amazon they are all on VHS except a single snead/hogan match.

[parpar41]

I saw it too and enjoyed it . I liked/ preferred the look of the course back then.

PBGL in 1963 looked much more natural; more use of sandy waste areas. It looked just a little bit more like a links course ( yes, I know it is not a links course) and less like a modern day well-groomed, over - irrigated parkland course that just happens to be next to the ocean.

[Asleep]

Beautifully done.

Amazed at how Pebble looked back then. The beach sand in those traps looked heavier than dough.

Snead had a nice short game, didn't he?

I hope they'll restore more of those.

[oldironman]

parpar41, on Jul 12 2009, 05:48 PM, said:

I saw it too and enjoyed it . I liked/ preferred the look of the course back then.

PBGL in 1963 looked much more natural; more use of sandy waste areas. It looked just a little bit more like a links course ( yes, I know it is not a links course) and less like a modern day well-groomed, over - irrigated parkland course that just happens to be next to the ocean.

I couldn't agree more. Snead was getting up and down from all over the place, 6 one putt greens on the front nine. I would love to see CBS do this as a lead in to all their golf telecasts. Maybe next they can do the Nelson vs. Littler match at Pine valley.

[Amused]

It was great seeing Snead's smooth swing during his competitive years. I didn't realize he was such a wristy putter though.

[lagwagon23]

Amused, on Jul 12 2009, 07:25 PM, said:

It was great seeing Snead's smooth swing during his competitive years. I didn't realize he was such a wristy putter though.

I think they had to be on the greens back when he first got on tour.

[larrybud]

bayway, on Jul 12 2009, 02:50 PM, said:

It's pretty nice to see this converted into a HD format, really like watching the Shell series.

Excellent quality. The original was shot on film and remastered in HD. There was a bit of cropping on the top and bottom, but it looked excellent.

[Body_Visions]

Diesel, on Jul 12 2009, 02:59 PM, said:

Jack has got one of the oddest voices ever... it was even more squeaky back then...

He once took up smoking in order to deepen it.

[andyville99]

I have Time Warner cable and DVR'd this, and to my chagrin, it cut off during the commercial after the 17th hole, so I didn't get to see the 18th and still don't know who won!!!!! What the heck!!! It recorded until 3pm - I figured CBS did it on purpose just to screw all of us who were watching on DVR and skipping the commercials....

[andyville99]

I have Time Warner cable and DVR'd this, and to my chagrin, it cut off during the commercial after the 17th hole, so I didn't get to see the 18th and still don't know who won!!!!! What the heck!!! It recorded until 3pm - I figured CBS did it on purpose just to screw all of us who were watching on DVR and skipping the commercials....

[andyville99]

I have Time Warner cable and DVR'd this, and to my chagrin, it cut off during the commercial after the 17th hole, so I didn't get to see the 18th and still don't know who won!!!!! What the heck!!! It recorded until 3pm - I figured CBS did it on purpose just to screw all of us who were watching on DVR and skipping the commercials....

[yoonie]

That was awesome! Sorry andy, nicklaus won with a clutch putt, too bad you missed it.

I've never really had a chance to watch snead play, so I was surprised to see how wild he was, and how amazing his short game touch was. Reminds me a bit of Phil, actually, especially with the aggressive style and amazing recoveries. They both have tremendously fluid, powerful swings, though Phil obviously lacks the same smoothness.

I'm gonna be watching this a lot to study snead's pitching and jack's course management. I think on 17 I was surprised to see him hit a draw to what looked like a clear fade pin, but earlier in the broadcast he talked about how he was still making some careless mistakes in shot selection at the time.

[Night train]

It's actually sad that in this modern era Snead's beautiful swing and magnificent record of wins is seldom mentioned. Hogan still gets a lot of well deserved praise but Snead gave him lots of competetion. He was competetive on the PGA Tour into his 60's which I find astounding.

[tjy355]

parpar41, on Jul 12 2009, 05:48 PM, said:

I saw it too and enjoyed it . I liked/ preferred the look of the course back then.

PBGL in 1963 looked much more natural; more use of sandy waste areas. It looked just a little bit more like a links course ( yes, I know it is not a links course) and less like a modern day well-groomed, over - irrigated parkland course that just happens to be next to the ocean.

+1

It was indeed, interesting to see what PB looked like 45 years ago. It is unfortunate that our views about what a golf course should look like has been skewed by the "Augusta Syndrome."

[Mainlinegolfer]

Interesting to see green side pitches and bunker shots stopping nicely without square groves. There was great touch on some chips; without relying so much on spin to stop the ball. The greens were soft and long (similar to today's fairways). Hmm, maybe there is a solution for the post-square groove era starting next year: longer grass on fairways and greens for the pros.

By the way, did you notice the putting strokes? The ball was really smacked on those slow, shaggy greens and strokes were far more wristy.

For you kids who think Jack Nicklaus has always been an Old Guy and golf was invented by Tiger Woods, did you notice the tremendous coil and power in Nicklaus' swing? He didn't hit 275-300 yard drives with a persimmon driver the size of today's 5-wood without generating serious clubhead speed.

Also, although I first played Pebble Beach in the late-60s, I didn't remember a 10th tee on a little peninsula that required hitting across the beach to the fairway (like the approach shot to the 8th green). I also did not remember a tree on the 18th hole, on the left along the rocks.

[duffer888]

andyville99, on Jul 13 2009, 05:33 PM, said:

I have Time Warner cable and DVR'd this, and to my chagrin, it cut off during the commercial after the 17th hole, so I didn't get to see the 18th and still don't know who won!!!!! What the heck!!! It recorded until 3pm - I figured CBS did it on purpose just to screw all of us who were watching on DVR and skipping the commercials....

Nicklaus won with a birdie putt on 18.

What I found interesting:

- How the course looked, nothing like today's top golf courses.
- How slow the greens were, they looked like my muni course.
- How good Snead was with the short game.
- 1 iron?
- Neither seemed to play that well on that day...
- Longevity of 18 as a great finishing hole.

[tt642golf]

Anybody noticed where the 10th tee was back in 63? It was right along the cliff and the drive was played across the beach.

[todd_i]

I just got a chance to watch this.. What a great program.

Snead looked terrible in the beginning, his drive on #1 was poor, and his huge slice on #2 was terrible. But, he had the knack for recovery. That save from the trap - keeping it under the tree was incredible.

It was amazing to see how hard they had to hit 20 foot puts, and were still coming up short. Much slower than even Munis today.

The conditions were interesting. I actually liked how a lot of the course was left natural and lightly maintained, like the junk around the edges of the bunkers on 17.
It's obvious that the amount of money in golf at that time was a fraction of what it is today. I wonder what a round at Pebble cost in '63 vs. the cost of a local muni in '63? Today Pebble is $500, not counting the hotel stay required to reserve a tee time.

[Mainlinegolfer]

tt642golf, on Jul 14 2009, 07:23 PM, said:

Anybody noticed where the 10th tee was back in 63? It was right along the cliff and the drive was played across the beach.

Um, yes; mentioned in my post #24 (just above yours).

[Tighthead]

I love the fact that the bunker sand was just plain, local beach sand. More courses could benefit from such a straightforward approach.

[Mainlinegolfer]

Tighthead, on Jul 15 2009, 01:46 PM, said:

I love the fact that the bunker sand was just plain, local beach sand. More courses could benefit from such a straightforward approach.

I'm on my club's Green Committee. Choosing the "right" sand in bunkers these days is actually a far more complex issue than most of you would think.
Attached are a couple of articles on the suject, if anyone is interested.

[Tighthead]

Mainlinegolfer, on Jul 15 2009, 11:18 AM, said:

Tighthead, on Jul 15 2009, 01:46 PM, said:

I love the fact that the bunker sand was just plain, local beach sand. More courses could benefit from such a straightforward approach.

I'm on my club's Green Committee. Choosing the "right" sand in bunkers these days is actually a far more complex issue than most of you would think.
Attached are a couple of articles on the suject, if anyone is interested.

I know there are lots of choices, but I prefer the natural approach of sourcing it locally. Golf courses have become over-engineered and over maintained.

I do think that one reason why there is focus on the "playability" of sand (even though it is a hazard) is that most courses are overbunkered. If you have fewer bunkers, members should whine less that they are too penal.

However, as I am sure you know, members will complain no matter what.

[D'KRUSHER]

Please - CBS and Shell make a DVD of this and do the same clean-up HD to other old great Shell Matches !!

The Green were slow.. maybe an 8 stimp ,AND Wavy-Lumpy ! I wonder if it was hard for Nicklaus to get used to manicured fast greens in later years. Poking hard at your putt evidently kept the ball on line over the irregularities.. kind-of like when your clubs greens get irrigated.

They both played well... it blew hard on the back nine.

I thought it was great to see the Tourney ball- Nicklaus and the Wilson Staff Ball for Snead..and their beautifull irons- blades!

[Mainlinegolfer]

Tighthead, on Jul 15 2009, 02:27 PM, said:

Mainlinegolfer, on Jul 15 2009, 11:18 AM, said:

Tighthead, on Jul 15 2009, 01:46 PM, said:

I love the fact that the bunker sand was just plain, local beach sand. More courses could benefit from such a straightforward approach.

I'm on my club's Green Committee. Choosing the "right" sand in bunkers these days is actually a far more complex issue than most of you would think.
Attached are a couple of articles on the suject, if anyone is interested.

I know there are lots of choices, but I prefer the natural approach of sourcing it locally. Golf courses have become over-engineered and over maintained.
I do think that one reason why there is focus on the "playability" of sand (even though it is a hazard) is that most courses are overbunkered. If you have fewer bunkers, members should whine less that they are too penal.
However, as I am sure you know, members will complain no matter what.

I simply wanted to show that it's a surprisingly complicated issue. Aesthetics, member "preferences", playability and "tradition" are just parts of the overall challenge for a green superintendent. Sand needs to "stick" on the face of flash bunkers, erosion and contamination need to be minimized, and good infiltration is important to, in fact, LOWER maintenance requirements, especially after a rainfall event. No golfer wants compacted sand and gullies running through a bunker.

For example, at the John Deere PGA tournament last weekend, it was mentioned that the bunkers had been refurbished to improve drainage such that after a rain storm, man-hours to get the bunkers back in shape had been reduced from 670 to 17! That's a big deal, both from a maintenance cost and a golfer satisfaction perspective. Not many golfers today would stand for the course conditioning that existed at Pebble Beach in 1963-- and certainly not if they had paid $475 to play!

[Mainlinegolfer]

D, on Jul 15 2009, 02:48 PM, said:

Please - CBS and Shell make a DVD of this and do the same clean-up HD to other old great Shell Matches !!

The Green were slow.. maybe an 8 stimp ,AND Wavy-Lumpy ! I wonder if it was hard for Nicklaus to get used to manicured fast greens in later years. Poking hard at your putt evidently kept the ball on line over the irregularities.. kind-of like when your clubs greens get irrigated.

They both played well... it blew hard on the back nine.

I thought it was great to see the Tourney ball- Nicklaus and the Wilson Staff Ball for Snead..and their beautifull irons- blades!

I heard years ago that the reason this particular Shell WWofG was not shown regularly on TV or released on video/DVD as many others were, was that Jack Nicklaus controlled the rights to this show. I also heard someone else say it was really Sam Snead that had blocked it and it was only after his death that it could be shown again. The Nicklaus story rings true because of his personal involvement with this weekend's broadcast. Does anyone know the definitive story?

[Honcho72]

Did anyone notice that while they were making the turn a bush drove by. I guess they tried to camo a camera in a golf cart. Pretty funny but I enjoy all of the old videos. A friend of mine played in a couple of the shell shows back in the day and said it seemed like they had a lot of cameras on the course. It shows, they got some great footage.

[freddiec]

Golf channel better replay this sometime, cause I don't have DVR and I missed the whole thing.

[Body_Visions]

freddiec, on Jul 15 2009, 11:04 PM, said:

Golf channel better replay this sometime, cause I don't have DVR and I missed the whole thing.

Surely they will. I was under the impression it was on GC and I missed it as well.

[D'KRUSHER]

The other thing I thought was cool is seeing 2 doggies, unleashed amongst the gallery.. Fun !