[Medson]

I am curious what happened to Japanese and Taiwanese female players? I know there are a few of them, Yani Tseng comes into mind. However, Korean female players are the far dominant Asian force in LPGA. Why aren't Japanese doing as well as the Koreans? Japan is a far more economic advanced country than Korea.

I definitely believe Chinese female golfers are lurking. Give them another 10 to 20 years, they could simply be where Koreans are right not, maybe even bigger. There are 2 top 20 Chinese female tennis players now. And golf is picking up pace in China now.

[MrJones]

This is not meant to sound negative so please don't take it that way:

From what I've been told and have read Korea "farms" their athletes from a very young age. For instance, here in the States we all have some sort of physical education class for most of our lives in public schools. Korea does the same however they take kids with certain attributtes or who show some promise/interest in certain sports and those kids then "train" in that particular sport from then on. They get professional help very early on and develop their skills through their youth. It's like another subject for them.


I don't neccesarily think that it's a bad thing to do (as long as the kids are enjoying it). I don't know whether or not it's forced on them so I can't judge. But I think giving kids a direction to focus on from a young age is a good thing, even if they eventually decide not to follow it. Imagine what the world would be like if kids picked certain things they were interested in at an early age and the proper schooling was avaliable to them. Some kids have that here but most do not.

Again I apologize for anything that was found offensive. Certainly did not mean it that way. My statement that Korean men not being able to keep up physically was not meant the way it came off.
Sorry.

[frozen_rope]

Lots of practice.

Medson, on Jul 10 2009, 03:54 PM, said:

I am curious what happened to Japanese and Taiwanese female players? I know there are a few of them, Yani Tseng comes into mind. However, Korean female players are the far dominant Asian force in LPGA. Why aren't Japanese doing as well as the Koreans? Japan is a far more economic advanced country than Korea.

I definitely believe Chinese female golfers are lurking. Give them another 10 to 20 years, they could simply be where Koreans are right not, maybe even bigger. There are 2 top 20 Chinese female tennis players now. And golf is picking up pace in China now.

[frozen_rope]

Bob Jones was an educated man who also possessed good sense. Out of respect for him you should use a different sig photo.

MrJones, on Jul 10 2009, 08:52 PM, said:

Obviously the Korean men don't do as well in golf because most can't keep up physically as well with their american and european counterparts.

[Jetlv25]

I have to wonder if it has to do with work ethic and off course distractions. Seems the American and Japanese stars have more publicity and thus distractions. It has to take away from practice time.

[caller]

I have to say seeing both Korean way and American way of education, I think there are
some misunderstanding how those players are brought up.

You have to remeber Korea has been strong sport country for its size.

Korean baseball has very little history but we all know Korea made to final for world baseball league. (beating U.S. and Japan who consider to be the dominant power in baseball world)

For soccer, Korea has little tradition and infrastructure but already qualified WC 5 times in a row and made to 4th place in 2002 WC.

If you look at Korea in Olympic, always been in strong contender for top 10.

Why, because Korean culture value strong wining spirit and overcoming hardships.

Concentration and hard work ethic have been a role model for Koreans instead of natural talent and gift.
There are 5 different sports that Korean female athletics dominate (please look them up)
in world class right now.

Korea have less than 600 golf courses total and being farmed player is never heard of.
Forced training is not happening in Korea
That just sounds like describing former USSR or China type communist country growing
players preparing Olympic for their own propaganda

Many of Korean female players play golf not to be pro but
- to lose weight (Lee who won LPGA tournament two weekends ago)
- to go to college (most of Korean players have to worry about getting into college in Korea because it is very competitive to get into college over there due to higher
academic standard than here)
- or some cases, their parents can spend money to bring class to their kids.

More than anything, it is their hunger to win and compete.
Practice makes it better.
Passion for golf among Koreans are second to none.
If you live in west coast or east coast, you know what I am refering to.

Look at Anthony Kim, Danny Lee both 100% Korean blooded, no sign of less
strong player nor being forced to play.
Being not as strong is another question because golf isn't about the size.

However, we see some father caddie or Wie's father cases that doesn't look normal
but you have to remeber that isn't majority case.

I live near Augusta, GA and I see more and more these local kids being taught by local pros and being trained very early age.. Far better and intense training than Korean kids.

This is one of stereotype for different people.

To me, this is just another sample case of if someone wants to acheive and work hard at it, they can get there through hard work and commitment.

Why Asian students are better at math and science?
Because they study.......

[Pondy]

Quote

Obviously the Korean men don't do as well in golf because most can't keep up physically as well with their American and European counterparts.

Quote

I have to say seeing both Korean way and American way of education, I think there are
some misunderstanding how those players are brought up.

Quote

Bob Jones was an educated man who also possessed good sense. Out of respect for him you should use a different sig photo.

[MrJones]

caller, on Jul 10 2009, 09:02 PM, said:

I have to say seeing both Korean way and American way of education, I think there are
some misunderstanding how those players are brought up.

You have to remeber Korea has been strong sport country for its size.

Korean baseball has very little history but we all know Korea made to final for world baseball league. (beating U.S. and Japan who consider to be the dominant power in baseball world)

For soccer, Korea has little tradition and infrastructure but already qualified WC 5 times in a row and made to 4th place in 2002 WC.

If you look at Korea in Olympic, always been in strong contender for top 10.

Why, because Korean culture value strong wining spirit and overcoming hardships.

Concentration and hard work ethic have been a role model for Koreans instead of natural talent and gift.
There are 5 different sports that Korean female athletics dominate (please look them up)
in world class right now.

Korea have less than 600 golf courses total and being farmed player is never heard of.
Forced training is not happening in Korea
That just sounds like describing former USSR or China type communist country growing
players preparing Olympic for their own propaganda

Many of Korean female players play golf not to be pro but
- to lose weight (Lee who won LPGA tournament two weekends ago)
- to go to college (most of Korean players have to worry about getting into college in Korea because it is very competitive to get into college over there due to higher
academic standard than here)
- or some cases, their parents can spend money to bring class to their kids.

More than anything, it is their hunger to win and compete.
Practice makes it better.
Passion for golf among Koreans are second to none.
If you live in west coast or east coast, you know what I am refering to.

Look at Anthony Kim, Danny Lee both 100% Korean blooded, no sign of less
strong player nor being forced to play.
Being not as strong is another question because golf isn't about the size.

However, we see some father caddie or Wie's father cases that doesn't look normal
but you have to remeber that isn't majority case.

I live near Augusta, GA and I see more and more these local kids being taught by local pros and being trained very early age.. Far better and intense training than Korean kids.

This is one of stereotype for different people.

To me, this is just another sample case of if someone wants to acheive and work hard at it, they can get there through hard work and commitment.

Why Asian students are better at math and science?
Because they study.......

I didn't mean to offend if I did.

I've heard the question so many times concerning Korean players on the LPGA and many differing opinions on why but could never be sure without actually witnessing it myself.

I didn't want the word farming to come off as a negative but it is a term I've heard used, especially in the examples you sited.

The kids in the states are usually paying for their lessons (unless they're participating in The First Tee type programs). Are the children in Korea getting this training at their own expense also or do schools fund that type of thing? It would be extremely impressive of them considering the schedules and pressures they seem to be under.

I agree with you with the work ethic difference especially and wish our kids were as focused.

I've seen articles such as this one:
article about teen life in Korea

Articles like this one made me think that with the schedules they keep, sports must be more than just recreation. I am always happy to be educated in other cultures.

[Johnny]

frozen_rope, on Jul 10 2009, 06:23 PM, said:

Bob Jones was an educated man who also possessed good sense. Out of respect for him you should use a different sig photo.

MrJones, on Jul 10 2009, 08:52 PM, said:

Obviously the Korean men don't do as well in golf because most can't keep up physically as well with their american and european counterparts.

+1 Million.. he was not even close to the right answer. Please research your Korean culture (for males) and comeback and tell us if golf really figures highly into their society.

[MrJones]

Pondude, on Jul 10 2009, 05:18 PM, said:

Quote

Obviously the Korean men don't do as well in golf because most can't keep up physically as well with their American and European counterparts.

Quote

I have to say seeing both Korean way and American way of education, I think there are
some misunderstanding how those players are brought up.

Quote

Bob Jones was an educated man who also possessed good sense. Out of respect for him you should use a different sig photo.

Thanks. It was bad enough coming from ole Frozen Personality but seeing other people respond I guess I didn't do a very good job wording what I was trying to say and maybe I don't have all the facts straight.

In the most general way I'll say that people come in all shapes and sizes. I often wish I'd been about 8 inches taller so that I might have pursued a career in basketball (it was my passion). I had very similar skills to many of the pros I tried to emulate but despite all that my size kept me from being a power forward at any level other than local leagues. At the same time my large frame and small hands kept me from being a point guard (I'd still have been undersized these days).
My physical limitations kept me from being able to do things as well as others. A few special people out there would have found a way to overcome their limitations but those types of peole are few and far between.

That pretty much all I can say in defense of my statement and since it did offend someone other than Mr. Roper, I'll go ahead and mark it out.

[MrJones]

Johnny, on Jul 10 2009, 09:43 PM, said:

frozen_rope, on Jul 10 2009, 06:23 PM, said:

Bob Jones was an educated man who also possessed good sense. Out of respect for him you should use a different sig photo.

MrJones, on Jul 10 2009, 08:52 PM, said:

Obviously the Korean men don't do as well in golf because most can't keep up physically as well with their american and european counterparts.

+1 Million.. he was not even close to the right answer. Please research your Korean culture (for males) and comeback and tell us if golf really figures highly into their society.

I actually did do a little research. I'm not responding quick enough though.

[caller]

MrJones, on Jul 10 2009, 10:36 PM, said:

caller, on Jul 10 2009, 09:02 PM, said:

I have to say seeing both Korean way and American way of education, I think there are
some misunderstanding how those players are brought up.

You have to remeber Korea has been strong sport country for its size.

Korean baseball has very little history but we all know Korea made to final for world baseball league. (beating U.S. and Japan who consider to be the dominant power in baseball world)

For soccer, Korea has little tradition and infrastructure but already qualified WC 5 times in a row and made to 4th place in 2002 WC.

If you look at Korea in Olympic, always been in strong contender for top 10.

Why, because Korean culture value strong wining spirit and overcoming hardships.

Concentration and hard work ethic have been a role model for Koreans instead of natural talent and gift.
There are 5 different sports that Korean female athletics dominate (please look them up)
in world class right now.

Korea have less than 600 golf courses total and being farmed player is never heard of.
Forced training is not happening in Korea
That just sounds like describing former USSR or China type communist country growing
players preparing Olympic for their own propaganda

Many of Korean female players play golf not to be pro but
- to lose weight (Lee who won LPGA tournament two weekends ago)
- to go to college (most of Korean players have to worry about getting into college in Korea because it is very competitive to get into college over there due to higher
academic standard than here)
- or some cases, their parents can spend money to bring class to their kids.

More than anything, it is their hunger to win and compete.
Practice makes it better.
Passion for golf among Koreans are second to none.
If you live in west coast or east coast, you know what I am refering to.

Look at Anthony Kim, Danny Lee both 100% Korean blooded, no sign of less
strong player nor being forced to play.
Being not as strong is another question because golf isn't about the size.

However, we see some father caddie or Wie's father cases that doesn't look normal
but you have to remeber that isn't majority case.

I live near Augusta, GA and I see more and more these local kids being taught by local pros and being trained very early age.. Far better and intense training than Korean kids.

This is one of stereotype for different people.

To me, this is just another sample case of if someone wants to acheive and work hard at it, they can get there through hard work and commitment.

Why Asian students are better at math and science?
Because they study.......

I didn't mean to offend if I did.

I've heard the question so many times concerning Korean players on the LPGA and many differing opinions on why but could never be sure without actually witnessing it myself.

I didn't want the word farming to come off as a negative but it is a term I've heard used, especially in the examples you sited.

The kids in the states are usually paying for their lessons (unless they're participating in The First Tee type programs). Are the children in Korea getting this training at their own expense also or do schools fund that type of thing? It would be extremely impressive of them considering the schedules and pressures they seem to be under.

I agree with you with the work ethic difference especially and wish our kids were as focused.

I've seen articles such as this one:
article about teen life in Korea

Articles like this one made me think that with the schedules they keep, sports must be more than just recreation. I am always happy to be educated in other cultures.

You didn't offend me just wanted to add my 2cents.
Every family has different way to bring kids up regardless of the race or origin.
To answer your question, most of cases, players parents flip the bills for lessons and etcs.
Average cost of round in Korea is around US$150
I do not heard of any government funded golf proram yet.
If they become good player, they go to college with good golf program just like here in state.
That is why you see a lot of current generation of Korean players came here early (btw 12~16yrs old) and study and golf to be pros because it is cheaper and better to get
accoustom to here where they will compete in future.
I would say they are hybrid type players. (1.5 generation)
They are foreigners but not so foreign if you look into them closely where they live and grew up recently.
I agree with you that Koreans grow up extremely competitive environment from the begining due to higher expectation and standard
It has pros and cons.
Hope I answered your question

[MrJones]

caller, on Jul 10 2009, 09:55 PM, said:

You didn't offend me just wanted to add my 2cents.
Every family has different way to bring kids up regardless of the race or origin.
To answer your question, most of cases, players parents flip the bills for lessons and etcs.
Average cost of round in Korea is around US$150
I do not heard of any government funded golf proram yet.
If they become good player, they go to college with good golf program just like here in state.
That is why you see a lot of current generation of Korean players came here early (btw 12~16yrs old) and study and golf to be pros because it is cheaper and better to get
accoustom to here where they will compete in future.
I would say they are hybrid type players. (1.5 generation)
They are foreigners but not so foreign if you look into them closely where they live and grew up recently.
I agree with you that Koreans grow up extremely competitive environment from the begining due to higher expectation and standard
It has pros and cons.
Hope I answered your question

I'm glad you did. I've been busy digging myself into a hole.

[honketyhank]

I am certainly not a sociologist, but I have worked in Korea and have grown to enjoy Korean culture. So here is my take, uneducated and unsophisticated as it might be.

I too have pondered the same question.

There is a very limited availability for university education in Korea. Competition is fierce. People I knew had their sons in night school to prepare for college entrance exams as early as kindergarten age. Sons. Not daughters. Daughters were pampered and taught how to maintain a household and be pleasant and appealing to a future husband of doctor lawyer professional whatever status. If there were no sons, then daughter might be aimed at university.

There were exceptions, of course. But culturally, overall, the emphasis was on getting the son, especially the eldest son, into university and subsequently into a lucrative profession.

OK. So where does this leave the daughter of a fairly well off family? She is encouraged to be good at anything that might be attractive to an upwardly mobile male. From age 6 or so. Golf? Sure, if Dad belongs to a club at exorbitant dues and buy-in rates (typical for Korea). So, if you are going to play golf, you are going to learn how to be good at it with Dad or you were going to go back home and learn to be a housewife with Mom.

I really don't know if the LPGA golfers from Korea fit this mold; just a theory, But I do know this. If you put a Korean on a path, he or SHE will stick to that path. They will own the path. They will bump you off the path if you are in the way. Culturally, they are tough. They will WIN or they will lose face trying. And losing face is dying. I say this with great respect.

So. Korean lady golfers. I am guessing they found out early on they had the golfing bug after being exposed to it perhaps casually as a father daughter kind of thing at the club. And they were allowed, maybe even encouraged, to pursue it. They, as a cultural imperative, were going to excel, not just learn. Especially if pushed by father as opposed to by mother.

Bottom line. I am not surprised that there are female golfers from Korea who are tough competitors, nor am I surprised that there are not so many male Korean golfers near the top of the leaderboards.

I hope I have not offended anyone. No intent to do so. And I do not want to stereotype. Just my innocent non-sociologist observations of what I have seen in Korea.

[Medson]

honketyhank, on Jul 10 2009, 04:27 PM, said:

I am certainly not a sociologist, but I have worked in Korea and have grown to enjoy Korean culture. So here is my take, uneducated and unsophisticated as it might be.

I too have pondered the same question.

There is a very limited availability for university education in Korea. Competition is fierce. People I knew had their sons in night school to prepare for college entrance exams as early as kindergarten age. Sons. Not daughters. Daughters were pampered and taught how to maintain a household and be pleasant and appealing to a future husband of doctor lawyer professional whatever status. If there were no sons, then daughter might be aimed at university.

There were exceptions, of course. But culturally, overall, the emphasis was on getting the son, especially the eldest son, into university and subsequently into a lucrative profession.

OK. So where does this leave the daughter of a fairly well off family? She is encouraged to be good at anything that might be attractive to an upwardly mobile male. From age 6 or so. Golf? Sure, if Dad belongs to a club at exorbitant dues and buy-in rates (typical for Korea). So, if you are going to play golf, you are going to learn how to be good at it with Dad or you were going to go back home and learn to be a housewife with Mom.

I really don't know if the LPGA golfers from Korea fit this mold; just a theory, But I do know this. If you put a Korean on a path, he or SHE will stick to that path. They will own the path. They will bump you off the path if you are in the way. Culturally, they are tough. They will WIN or they will lose face trying. And losing face is dying. I say this with great respect.

So. Korean lady golfers. I am guessing they found out early on they had the golfing bug after being exposed to it perhaps casually as a father daughter kind of thing at the club. And they were allowed, maybe even encouraged, to pursue it. They, as a cultural imperative, were going to excel, not just learn. Especially if pushed by father as opposed to by mother.

Bottom line. I am not surprised that there are female golfers from Korea who are tough competitors, nor am I surprised that there are not so many male Korean golfers near the top of the leaderboards.

I hope I have not offended anyone. No intent to do so. And I do not want to stereotype. Just my innocent non-sociologist observations of what I have seen in Korea.

My original post is more of a discussion of why Korean golfers outperform Japanese and Taiwanese ones on a whole. However, I do believe pride is one thing Korean excel compares with her other East Asian counterparts, i.e. Japanese, Taiwanese & Chinese. I still believe (or sincerely hope) Chinese female golfers will be a force in a few years. In fact, one Chinese female golfer made the cut in the U.S Open today.

[hoganfan924]

honketyhank, on Jul 10 2009, 07:27 PM, said:

I am certainly not a sociologist, but I have worked in Korea and have grown to enjoy Korean culture. So here is my take, uneducated and unsophisticated as it might be.

I too have pondered the same question.

There is a very limited availability for university education in Korea. Competition is fierce. People I knew had their sons in night school to prepare for college entrance exams as early as kindergarten age. Sons. Not daughters. Daughters were pampered and taught how to maintain a household and be pleasant and appealing to a future husband of doctor lawyer professional whatever status. If there were no sons, then daughter might be aimed at university.

There were exceptions, of course. But culturally, overall, the emphasis was on getting the son, especially the eldest son, into university and subsequently into a lucrative profession.

OK. So where does this leave the daughter of a fairly well off family? She is encouraged to be good at anything that might be attractive to an upwardly mobile male. From age 6 or so. Golf? Sure, if Dad belongs to a club at exorbitant dues and buy-in rates (typical for Korea). So, if you are going to play golf, you are going to learn how to be good at it with Dad or you were going to go back home and learn to be a housewife with Mom.

I really don't know if the LPGA golfers from Korea fit this mold; just a theory, But I do know this. If you put a Korean on a path, he or SHE will stick to that path. They will own the path. They will bump you off the path if you are in the way. Culturally, they are tough. They will WIN or they will lose face trying. And losing face is dying. I say this with great respect.

So. Korean lady golfers. I am guessing they found out early on they had the golfing bug after being exposed to it perhaps casually as a father daughter kind of thing at the club. And they were allowed, maybe even encouraged, to pursue it. They, as a cultural imperative, were going to excel, not just learn. Especially if pushed by father as opposed to by mother.

Bottom line. I am not surprised that there are female golfers from Korea who are tough competitors, nor am I surprised that there are not so many male Korean golfers near the top of the leaderboards.

I hope I have not offended anyone. No intent to do so. And I do not want to stereotype. Just my innocent non-sociologist observations of what I have seen in Korea.

I've had Korean neighbors, friends and coworkers over the years. I think you observations are pretty accurate.

In general, incredible singlemindedness of purpose, devotion and a work ethic second to none. As a group, the hardest working people I've ever known. These attributes are perfect for excelling at golf. Combine that with a culture that encourages many young women to play golf, and there you go.

[Johnny]

let not forget atleast for the Japanese women, they are make a more then comfortable living on their tour. So that's why you see more Koreans and now Chinese coming to the LPGA.

[mrhills0146]

Tenementrock, on Jul 13 2009, 01:25 AM, said:

This thread is veering dangerously close to Jimmy the Greek territory ("You see the blaeck is the better athlete because..."). Come on people just tip your hat to Korean golf. What can you say these people have just embraced the game with such a fervor, it is natural they would produce winners. In my area, it's very plain to see. Pull into the Bethpage car lot on a weekday morning you will see tons of Korean folk, and not just adult men, there's plenty of ladies and youths too- a good mix. My local Brooklyn course too is becoming more Korean all the time.
Who knows maybe they played some form of golf in korea 5000 years ago or something, maybe there is some ancient connection to the game. we may never know. whatever the case, they are a force.

X 2.

Why are Korean women dominating women's golf right now? It has nothing to do with race, or being attractive to an up-and-coming doctor , or "Koreans being harder working." That's nonsense. Se-Ri Pak's success got a lot of Korean girls interested in golf. Pair that with high-quality instruction for juniors, and voila, you get high-quality professionals.

[pickerjohn]

I watch LPGA golf live and on TV, and what I see from
Asian players is that they are polite and extremely focused.
Not that others arn't, but these are 2 things that stand out.

[Skaffa77]

Interesting topic...to the original topic...I always dumbed down the reason to the fact that you've had a few successful Koreans and that spurred their culture to embrace the game (LPGA) and foster more focus/effort for developing young talent. I don't know enough about their current culture to know if it's really regimented for their youth, but I can tell you that Koreans in general are very dedicated and have a lot of national pride.

Now, I'm half Korean (mother = full Korean) and I will just add my 2 cents that I have not been personally offended by statements in this thread. I think there is a lot of it is interesting speculation and I can understand the concern of stereotyping or being somewhat considerate to others. I do believe that there has historically been physical differences between different races/cultures which may have affect a population's their physical potential to compete in certain sports. Does it mean that they can't compete, no...but I would say my observation is that "generally speaking" diet or environment or whatever may affect a population's general physical build (height, weight, size, etc) which could affect a "population's" overall ability to compete historically in a physical sport. Now, has that changed, will that change...I'm not someone who studies that...time will tell. To date, KJ Choi is the only male Korean golfer I know on the PGA tour...maybe that will change...

[8602081]

Both Anthony Kim's parents are Koreans.
But Anthony was born in US.
Anthony is among the leaders on Drive distance on tour..

Both Michelle Wie's parents are Koreans.
Michelle was born in US.
She can hit further then most..

They both represent US, because they were born in US. But the heritage and Genes are Korean..
Maybe it's the food in US..

I don't think there are physical limitations in golf, because you can adjust with hardware.

Basketball, Football, and MMA.. YES!

[freddiec]

I think it comes down to one simple thing. The players who are winning, let it be foreign from any country are more driven to win, practice harder. Their priorities are where they should be.

[MrJones]

Tenementrock, on Jul 13 2009, 11:09 AM, said:

MrJones, on Jul 10 2009, 10:49 PM, said:

In the most general way I'll say that people come in all shapes and sizes. I often wish I'd been about 8 inches taller so that I might have pursued a career in basketball (it was my passion). I had very similar skills to many of the pros I tried to emulate but despite all that my size kept me from being a power forward at any level other than local leagues. At the same time my large frame and small hands kept me from being a point guard (I'd still have been undersized these days).
My physical limitations kept me from being able to do things as well as others. A few special people out there would have found a way to overcome their limitations but those types of peole are few and far between.

So you're saying that Korean males' have physical shortcomings that prevent them from doing well in golf??? All I can say to that is

WOW

Is that what I wrote?

That is not at all what I'm saying. Those are your words that you've choosen to pull from what I've said.

It's like you guys are looking for racism or hate in what I've written.

Here are a few facts:

My wife is half Cambodian, half Thai.

I think all Asian women are hot! I don't mind at all that they're all over the tour! I actually like it!

My wife's best friend is Japanese. I have a African american brother in law. We have friends that are Chinese, Thai, and Vietnamese. I have an African American friend that is the guy I went to stay with when times were hard on me in my youth. I dated in all races when I was young (even to the dismay of my parents).


I made a statement based on my understanding that Asian men that I've met and seen are usually of a smaller build. I have a buddy who is 5'7 and when he went to Japan he was a giant! I understand that there are MANY great golfers of all races out there that aren't on tour because they don't have the length. I would contend that a larger man would in many cases have a advantage in distance over a smaller man if all other things between the 2 would equal. I then made my statement, with no hate in my heart, that because of this the Korean men were not dominating the PGA tour the way Korean women are-even though their work ethics are just as good. I should have been a lot more specific I realize now, because of all the people looking for the negative in what I wrote.

If I had made the statement that there aren't as many white guys in the NBA because they're not as tall and athletic I wonder if it would have caused as much of an uproar.

I really feel like you should sit down and talk to someone before you start firing off statements like those above without knowing the first thing about a person.

[SMGolfer]

caller, on Jul 10 2009, 07:02 PM, said:

I have to say seeing both Korean way and American way of education, I think there are
some misunderstanding how those players are brought up.

You have to remeber Korea has been strong sport country for its size.

Korean baseball has very little history but we all know Korea made to final for world baseball league. (beating U.S. and Japan who consider to be the dominant power in baseball world)

For soccer, Korea has little tradition and infrastructure but already qualified WC 5 times in a row and made to 4th place in 2002 WC.

If you look at Korea in Olympic, always been in strong contender for top 10.

Why, because Korean culture value strong wining spirit and overcoming hardships.

Concentration and hard work ethic have been a role model for Koreans instead of natural talent and gift.
There are 5 different sports that Korean female athletics dominate (please look them up)
in world class right now.

Korea have less than 600 golf courses total and being farmed player is never heard of.
Forced training is not happening in Korea
That just sounds like describing former USSR or China type communist country growing
players preparing Olympic for their own propaganda

Many of Korean female players play golf not to be pro but
- to lose weight (Lee who won LPGA tournament two weekends ago)
- to go to college (most of Korean players have to worry about getting into college in Korea because it is very competitive to get into college over there due to higher
academic standard than here)
- or some cases, their parents can spend money to bring class to their kids.

More than anything, it is their hunger to win and compete.
Practice makes it better.
Passion for golf among Koreans are second to none.
If you live in west coast or east coast, you know what I am refering to.

Look at Anthony Kim, Danny Lee both 100% Korean blooded, no sign of less
strong player nor being forced to play.
Being not as strong is another question because golf isn't about the size.

However, we see some father caddie or Wie's father cases that doesn't look normal
but you have to remeber that isn't majority case.

I live near Augusta, GA and I see more and more these local kids being taught by local pros and being trained very early age.. Far better and intense training than Korean kids.

This is one of stereotype for different people.

To me, this is just another sample case of if someone wants to acheive and work hard at it, they can get there through hard work and commitment.

Why Asian students are better at math and science?
Because they study.......

Well said!!

[johnnybogey]

IIRC, it's harder for korean male players to make it in golf because they have to take 2 years off to serve the military.

Could be way off here but can anyone confirm? Or maybe I'll just ask my cousin.

[SMGolfer]

johnnybogey, on Jul 13 2009, 12:55 PM, said:

IIRC, it's harder for korean male players to make it in golf because they have to take 2 years off to serve the military.

Could be way off here but can anyone confirm? Or maybe I'll just ask my cousin.

2 years is correct, I believe when your 20 or 21 yrs old, now I know for a fact you can push off for some time but eventually you are required to go in.

[MrJones]

Tenementrock, on Jul 13 2009, 02:44 PM, said:

Hey man all I really wrote was "WOW" more of a reaction than a statement about you. Who said anything about you being racist? I didn't! I'm more like trying to point out that you are wrong! In the present-day world, Korean males are not significantly shorter in stature than Whitey. Japanese are a whole different people from Koreans and they tend to be shorter. In any case, ever heard of the World Baseball Classic? If you watch this you'll get a good sense of the size and athleticism of Koreans in particular, they're not limited to small-ball they hit homeruns with the best of them.

But I never said all Korean men are small. I've seen their basketball team and baseball team. I made a statement based on my opinion as to why I think the Korean men aren't dominating the PGA tour the women the ladies are.

I'm getting my lunch eaten because I wrote something that came off the wrong way. It gets to the point to where you get tired of apologizing and start getting pissed off about it. I never meant anything negative in the first place.

[Fedor Emelianenko]

MrJones, on Jul 13 2009, 01:13 PM, said:

Tenementrock, on Jul 13 2009, 02:44 PM, said:

Hey man all I really wrote was "WOW" more of a reaction than a statement about you. Who said anything about you being racist? I didn't! I'm more like trying to point out that you are wrong! In the present-day world, Korean males are not significantly shorter in stature than Whitey. Japanese are a whole different people from Koreans and they tend to be shorter. In any case, ever heard of the World Baseball Classic? If you watch this you'll get a good sense of the size and athleticism of Koreans in particular, they're not limited to small-ball they hit homeruns with the best of them.

But I never said all Korean men are small. I've seen their basketball team and baseball team. I made a statement based on my opinion as to why I think the Korean men aren't dominating the PGA tour the women the ladies are.

I'm getting my lunch eaten because I wrote something that came off the wrong way. It gets to the point to where you get tired of apologizing and start getting pissed off about it. I never meant anything negative in the first place.

Just stop. The reason why you see more Korean LPGA players than PGA players is because of the mandatory military enlistment. Not because of their height

[MrJones]

Fedor Emelianenko, on Jul 13 2009, 03:46 PM, said:

Just stop. The reason why you see more Korean LPGA players than PGA players is because of the mandatory military enlistment. Not because of their height

Thanks for that. Many have already beaten you to it.

Do I not have the right to be wrong?

[caller]

Korean males have to serve mandatory military service for 2 years (used to be 3 years)
Just like France or Israel.

It is big gap for pros to continue....

I heard the story that KJ Choi used to use M16 rifle to practice swing when he was in service while he was in night watch duty LOL!

Here are male players that I know play in PGA tour currently.

Anthony Kim (Korean American)
KJ Choi
Danny Lee (he moved to New Zealand to play cheaper golf and get away from military service. He broke
Tiger Woods' record of youngest winning U.S. Amature, just turned pro)
Kevin Na
Charlie Wie

Korea (of couse South Korea) being little bigger than state of South Carolina produced many great world class athletics.

When Seri Pak won U.S.open 10yrs ago, it made a lot of people in Korea to think that we can do it and overcome the hardship (that time Korean economy was in bad shape like now in U.S)
and a lot of "Seri Kids" started to play and became good pros.

If seeing many foreign names on LPGA leader board make you think it isn't good for LPGA, I am sorry but you will
have to get used to it because it isn't only place that is happening

[Medson]

SMGolfer, on Jul 13 2009, 01:07 PM, said:

johnnybogey, on Jul 13 2009, 12:55 PM, said:

IIRC, it's harder for korean male players to make it in golf because they have to take 2 years off to serve the military.

Could be way off here but can anyone confirm? Or maybe I'll just ask my cousin.

2 years is correct, I believe when your 20 or 21 yrs old, now I know for a fact you can push off for some time but eventually you are required to go in.

Same thing with Taiwanese and Singaporean males. Some stuff can defer the enlistment, such as university education, but you eventually need to go.

[johnnybogey]

Medson, on Jul 13 2009, 05:59 PM, said:

SMGolfer, on Jul 13 2009, 01:07 PM, said:

johnnybogey, on Jul 13 2009, 12:55 PM, said:

IIRC, it's harder for korean male players to make it in golf because they have to take 2 years off to serve the military.

Could be way off here but can anyone confirm? Or maybe I'll just ask my cousin.

2 years is correct, I believe when your 20 or 21 yrs old, now I know for a fact you can push off for some time but eventually you are required to go in.

Same thing with Taiwanese and Singaporean males. Some stuff can defer the enlistment, such as university education, but you eventually need to go.

Correct, you can defer it due to university enrollemtn, etc... but eventually, you have to serve.

BUT, money talks and if you know the right people, you can do the boot camp and spend the next 2 years working in a military office.

[Medson]

johnnybogey, on Jul 13 2009, 04:07 PM, said:

Correct, you can defer it due to university enrollemtn, etc... but eventually, you have to serve.

BUT, money talks and if you know the right people, you can do the boot camp and spend the next 2 years working in a military office.

Serve as front desk staff for military officers' G C.

[BankerGolfer]

2 words: ANTHONY KIM

MrJones, on Jul 10 2009, 08:52 PM, said:

This is not meant to sound negative so please don't take it that way:

From what I've been told and have read Korea "farms" their athletes from a very young age. For instance, here in the States we all have some sort of physical education class for most of our lives in public schools. Korea does the same however they take kids with certain attributtes or who show some promise/interest in certain sports and those kids then "train" in that particular sport from then on. They get professional help very early on and develop their skills through their youth. It's like another subject for them.


I don't neccesarily think that it's a bad thing to do (as long as the kids are enjoying it). I don't know whether or not it's forced on them so I can't judge. But I think giving kids a direction to focus on from a young age is a good thing, even if they eventually decide not to follow it. Imagine what the world would be like if kids picked certain things they were interested in at an early age and the proper schooling was avaliable to them. Some kids have that here but most do not.

Again I apologize for anything that was found offensive. Certainly did not mean it that way. My statement that Korean men not being able to keep up physically was not meant the way it came off.
Sorry.

[sti23]

MrJones, on Jul 10 2009, 07:52 PM, said:

This is not meant to sound negative so please don't take it that way:

From what I've been told and have read Korea "farms" their athletes from a very young age. For instance, here in the States we all have some sort of physical education class for most of our lives in public schools. Korea does the same however they take kids with certain attributtes or who show some promise/interest in certain sports and those kids then "train" in that particular sport from then on. They get professional help very early on and develop their skills through their youth. It's like another subject for them.


I don't neccesarily think that it's a bad thing to do (as long as the kids are enjoying it). I don't know whether or not it's forced on them so I can't judge. But I think giving kids a direction to focus on from a young age is a good thing, even if they eventually decide not to follow it. Imagine what the world would be like if kids picked certain things they were interested in at an early age and the proper schooling was avaliable to them. Some kids have that here but most do not.

Again I apologize for anything that was found offensive. Certainly did not mean it that way. My statement that Korean men not being able to keep up physically was not meant the way it came off.
Sorry.

I think you're getting mixed up with China.
Not sure if it's entirely true, but one of the commentators at the Olympics said that kids are hand picked in China to compete in certain sports.

I know that is not true in Korea.
It's no different there than a parent here in the states exposing their kid to a certain sport at a very young age (Tiger) and trying to help them develop a passion for it.
But in no way does the Korean government "farm" children for certain sports.