A player must not improve or allow to be improved:
• the position or lie of his ball,
• the area of his intended stance or swing,
• his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or
• the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
by any of the following actions:
• pressing a club on the ground,
• moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),
• creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
• removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
• removing dew, frost or water.
However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
• in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
• in fairly taking his stance,
• in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made,
• in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing ground (Rule 11-1) or in removing dew, frost or water from the teeing ground, or
• on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing damage (Rule 16-1).
Exception: Ball in hazard –
I am of course assuming that the Rules of Golf are Universal and there are no glaring differences from the Rand A in Scotland and the PGA's American version? - if not, then this is th e Rule as it stands.
You take a drop and no marks can be repaired; divots done; sand brushed; pine cones thrown etc etc - you play the drop as nature intended when you arrived at the ball!
Yes no marks can be repaired, or turf irregularities fixed, or sand brushed, but the rule still says nothing about LOOSE impediments. Those are not loose impediments described in that rule. You can remove leaves, sticks, pine cones, old bandages, etc., w/e may be considered a loose impediment, prior to dropping.
Edit: To clarify, please tell me which of those bolded categories a loose stick would classify as?
This is the point of the Rule which Stewart Cink violated at Harbour Town a few years back. Cink broke the Rule and PGA Tour official Slugger White covered it up. White should have been fired the Monday following that event, but he continues to be employed as Rules official. Truly disgraceful.
As for Cink, he should have done the right thing and penalized himself following his "playoff victory" video review of the incident. Sadly, Cink did not have the courage to do the right thing and he must live with the shame of his decision for the rest of his life.
Double Gee, on Jul 7 2009, 12:02 AM, said:
RULE 13 (2)
IMPROVING LIE; AREA OF INTENDED SWING
• creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
• removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
I am of course assuming that the Rules of Golf are Universal and there are no glaring differences from the Rand A in Scotland and the PGA's American version? - if not, then this is th e Rule as it stands.
I don't know what he did to be honest. Can you explain?
This is the point of the Rule which Stewart Cink violated at Harbour Town a few years back. Cink broke the Rule and PGA Tour official Slugger White covered it up. White should have been fired the Monday following that event, but he continues to be employed as Rules official. Truly disgraceful.
As for Cink, he should have done the right thing and penalized himself following his "playoff victory" video review of the incident. Sadly, Cink did not have the courage to do the right thing and he must live with the shame of his decision for the rest of his life.
Double Gee, on Jul 7 2009, 12:02 AM, said:
RULE 13 (2)
IMPROVING LIE; AREA OF INTENDED SWING
• creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
• removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
I am of course assuming that the Rules of Golf are Universal and there are no glaring differences from the Rand A in Scotland and the PGA's American version? - if not, then this is th e Rule as it stands.
I think an "In my opinion" should have prefaced your remarks regarding the Cink incident. You are presenting your opinion as fact.
Cink called the rules official over BEFORE he removed the loose stones and asked him SPECIFICALLY what he could and could not do in that situation, according to the rules. This was shown on the "Top 10 Questionable Decisions" show on the Golf Channel, and they had the conversation on mike between Cink and the official who was present. Cink did exactly what the official said was allowable under the rules, with the official right there staring at it to make sure the ball did not move.
As a couple of people have said, if the official was there to make the call, it becomes NO violation, since there was a decision already provided to the player at the time.
I'm sure Stewart Cink (who probably lurks here, since he's a Twitter subscriber) is not losing any sleep at all over what you, or I, or anyone else thinks about the incident. He is secure in the knowledge that he called the official over and got a ruling before he did anything.
Whether the official erred is another question. But before we beat up on the official too much, maybe those of us who would should attend a USGA Rules Workshop -- and post their final test score for all of us to see. Then we could see which of us the USGA would assign to the US Open or any other tournament to provide rulings to the players -- on site, at the time, under the TV cameras' view. Preferably in High Definition.
This is the point of the Rule which Stewart Cink violated at Harbour Town a few years back. Cink broke the Rule and PGA Tour official Slugger White covered it up. White should have been fired the Monday following that event, but he continues to be employed as Rules official. Truly disgraceful.
As for Cink, he should have done the right thing and penalized himself following his "playoff victory" video review of the incident. Sadly, Cink did not have the courage to do the right thing and he must live with the shame of his decision for the rest of his life.
Double Gee, on Jul 7 2009, 12:02 AM, said:
RULE 13 (2)
IMPROVING LIE; AREA OF INTENDED SWING
• creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
• removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
I am of course assuming that the Rules of Golf are Universal and there are no glaring differences from the Rand A in Scotland and the PGA's American version? - if not, then this is th e Rule as it stands.
I don't know what he did to be honest. Can you explain?
Cink drove into a waste area, onto a lie of pebbles. He asked for a ruling and an interpretation of what constituted "Loose Impediments" in this situation. He was told that the pebbles were loose impediments. He then asked if, since that was the case, he had a right to move them. He was told yes, and as long as the ball didn't move, he would not be penalized. He then took a pretty long time to remove the pebbles, just as though he was playing "pick-up-sticks", and by the time he was satisfied the ball was virtually teed up. He then made a good shot, and ultimately won the tournament in a playoff.
Cink had a soft, sandy, gravely type lie and he used his finger to dig a trench behind his ball. That was his violation of Rule 13-2.
On 16 at Harbour Town, a playoff hole, Cink pulled his tee shot left. As he walked off the tee box he asked Tour official Slugger White f he could remove loose impediments in a waste bunker. White answered "yes", which is correct. However when Cink got to his ball he knelt behind it and deliberately used his finger to dig a trench behind his ball and "build a lie". This was a violation of the Rules. The camera was on Cink and lots of t.v. viewers called in to report the violation. Unfortunately, official White had separated from Cink at the tee box (to watch the other player , Ted Purdy) and never did watch Cink's behavior at the ball.
Post round, due to all the phone calls as well as questions from the t.v. broadcast team, , both Cink and White watched a video replay. This was the chance for White to penalize Cink, but since he had talked to Cink at the tee box he presumably "felt bad" that he did not go with Cink to his ball in the waste bunker. White should have done the professional thing and penalized Cink, but instead he covered it up. For his part , after watching the video replay of himself, Cink should have admitted he did not understand the Rule, that he made a mistake, and he should have penalized himself.
It's fine for an Official or a player to make a mistake, it happens. But to have a chance to later make it right and instead choose to cover it up was disgraceful.
Redman, on Jul 7 2009, 09:01 AM, said:
frozen_rope, on Jul 7 2009, 01:53 AM, said:
This is the point of the Rule which Stewart Cink violated at Harbour Town a few years back. Cink broke the Rule and PGA Tour official Slugger White covered it up. White should have been fired the Monday following that event, but he continues to be employed as Rules official. Truly disgraceful.
As for Cink, he should have done the right thing and penalized himself following his "playoff victory" video review of the incident. Sadly, Cink did not have the courage to do the right thing and he must live with the shame of his decision for the rest of his life.
Double Gee, on Jul 7 2009, 12:02 AM, said:
RULE 13 (2)
IMPROVING LIE; AREA OF INTENDED SWING
• creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
• removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
I am of course assuming that the Rules of Golf are Universal and there are no glaring differences from the Rand A in Scotland and the PGA's American version? - if not, then this is th e Rule as it stands.
I don't know what he did to be honest. Can you explain?
This is so stupid..please put an end to this thread. I went to school with people that did not like tiger because of the color of his skin. Then when asked in public about tiger they had nothing but great things to say about the worlds number #1 golfer.
This is so stupid..please put an end to this thread. I went to school with people that did not like tiger because of the color of his skin. Then when asked in public about tiger they had nothing but great things to say about the worlds number #1 golfer.
This is so stupid..please put an end to this thread. I went to school with people that did not like tiger because of the color of his skin. Then when asked in public about tiger they had nothing but great things to say about the worlds number #1 golfer.
What? is right. That statement has zero relevance to this topic.
sere1999, on Jul 8 2009, 12:24 AM, said:
Tiger woods is my favorite golfer, I do not need to explain the obvious.
Once again, what???? Who cares who we are talking about, it has nothing to do with the situation, and the fact that he's your favorit golfer is even farther off topic. Only the actions of the player in that exact instance are important.
I think this forum needs a filter that converts 'Tiger' to some random other PGA player whenever it's included in a post. That way there is a chance people can discuss it with an open mind and not have to read 30 useless posts definding someone's hero.
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Double Gee, on Jul 7 2009, 12:02 AM, said:
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