[Crushed]

http://dps.twiihosti...doc_528_827.pdf

Quite interesting. Kinda breaks the myth that all pros swing 120 mph+.

[hack]

a lot of guys seem to have higher than "optimal" spin numbers

[MtlJeff]

Crushed, on Jun 28 2009, 01:51 PM, said:

http://dps.twiihosti...doc_528_827.pdf

Quite interesting. Kinda breaks the myth that all pros swing 120 mph+.

i think a lot of guys on this board probably won't be surprised at all by those numbers. I think the myth is more reserved for people who don't know that much about golf

but thanks for sharing the PDF though, that actually is pretty cool to see those stats

[kylemacca01]

This is pretty cool. Carry distances make me wonder, how is JD carrying it 311 with over 4000rpm spin at only 117mph SS when quiros has 124mph SS, high BS, MUCH better launch conditions and only carries it 302? Im guessing it was windy! I always notice how much lower than optimal the pros launch it, and how high the spin rates generally are. They are giving up a fair bit of distance imo!

[MtlJeff]

[


WOW...

hmmm, where to begin...Again, thanks for the PDF, it actually is pretty cool to see (wasn't being sarcastic about that). And secondly, we have had MANY threads on this forum talking about pros and the vast majority of people here seem to be aware that the average pro SS is 110-115.

does that mean you wasted our time by posting this? No...But i answered the comment YOU made about the myth of the pro SS

Have a nice day, and enjoy your time on this site. I'm sure you won't be here long with that attitude

Jeff

Reason for edit: quote removed

[SJWDR]

maybe some of them were hitting 3 wood when measured or less if you look at those numbers; that would explain the higher spin as well as the slower swing speed and less yardage;

[CHRIS509]

WOW!!! Your going to get plenty of flack for that unprovoaked attack.

The PDF info is intresting, i did notice that John Bickerton has 2 entries? 3 wood and Driver maybe?
Can't say i ever thought there was a "MYTH" about ss of Pro's

Reason for edit: Quote removed

[mat562]

I think three things:

1) The list makes interesting reading;

2) The OP's correct in his contention that many people overestimate the average swing speeds on the various professional tours (and usually their own); and

3) The response to mtlJeff's post was grossly OTT.

[Left Rough]

Very cool info.

What stood out to me were Angel Cabrera and Marcel Siem

AC: 122 SS, 178 BS, 4569 spin! Only 290 carry.
MS: 117 SS, 173 BS, 4854 spin! Only 280 carry.

These guys are giving up (possibly intentionally) 20-30 yds of carry.

Really surprised that Jeev Milka goes 114 / 168 / 3725 / 290. His swing certainly doesn't look it.

[lagwagon23]

Crushed, on Jun 28 2009, 10:51 AM, said:

http://dps.twiihosti...doc_528_827.pdf

Quite interesting. Kinda breaks the myth that all pros swing 120 mph+.

very interesting... Particulary interesting how lower clubhead speeds somehow achieve higher ball speeds and more carry? Better equipment? More pure hit?

[jimb]

Quiros, WOW

[Crushed]

Perhaps I was a little OTT, but Jeff's post which suggested that I am a person who doesn't know much about golf, I found to be needless and bitchy.

I think my point that we are led to believe that pros swing around 120mph is entirely valid. With the huge number of x and tx flex shafts in tour pro bags, and with OEMS recommending this flex for those with swing speeds of at least 115, I was suprised to see the average fall closer to the 108 range. Plus, I didn't say that pros DID swing at 120, but I'm saying that we are often led to believe this is the case by magazines, television etc... Hence the use of the word 'myth'.

Regardless, whilst I may not have your statistical prowess, jeff, suggesting I know have little knowledge about golf is a bit of an assumption. I good golf knowledge in the purest sense - good enough to get to a 1.8 handicap, and I have a lot of knowledge regarding club building having built my own set from scratch - to very specific specifications to tailor to my height.

But back to the golf, I was at that tournament - it was a par 5 hole of 570 yards, and I didn't see any 3 woods being hit on either day 2 or day 4.

I managed to find the stats from day 2. On day 2, sergio hit his driver of the deck - I watched it. According to these stats, his launch angle was 3.3*! But his spin rate was
still higher than some. Yet compare it to Oliver Fisher, who had exactly the same club head and ball speed, but yet had such a lower spin rate (2100) that he carried the ball 30 yards past sergio. Sure sergio would have got a lot of roll out, but so would Oliver with that spin rate.

http://dps.twiihosti...doc_528_828.pdf

[kylemacca01]

Im laughing at some of the responses here. Not really sure why there is so much bitching.

Personally i though the info was very interesting, Quiros is considered to be 'ridiculously' long and tbh i was expecting better than 124mph which is similar to the numbers i get.

As for the myth of tour pro SS many people on this site are well informed and most here know that the average pro swings it at about 110mph and so this wouldn't surprise us.

However a lot of people in the outside world seem to think pros hit it unbelievable distances. Ive been told by a 18hc golfer that SS is completely irrelevant and that i don't hit it anywhere near as far as the pros. Apparently they hit 3 iron as far as i hit my driver, well ok, 320+yds with a 3 iron seems feasible!

[MtlJeff]

Crushed, on Jun 28 2009, 06:24 PM, said:

Perhaps I was a little OTT, but Jeff's post which suggested that I am a person who doesn't know much about golf, I found to be needless and bitchy.

I think my point that we are led to believe that pros swing around 120mph is entirely valid. With the huge number of x and tx flex shafts in tour pro bags, and with OEMS recommending this flex for those with swing speeds of at least 115, I was suprised to see the average fall closer to the 108 range. Plus, I didn't say that pros DID swing at 120, but I'm saying that we are often led to believe this is the case by magazines, television etc... Hence the use of the word 'myth'.

Regardless, whilst I may not have your statistical prowess, jeff, suggesting I know have little knowledge about golf is a bit of an assumption. I good golf knowledge in the purest sense - good enough to get to a 1.8 handicap, and I have a lot of knowledge regarding club building having built my own set from scratch - to very specific specifications to tailor to my height.

But back to the golf, I was at that tournament - it was a par 5 hole of 570 yards, and I didn't see any 3 woods being hit on either day 2 or day 4.

I managed to find the stats from day 2. On day 2, sergio hit his driver of the deck - I watched it. According to these stats, his launch angle was 3.3*! But his spin rate was
still higher than some. Yet compare it to Oliver Fisher, who had exactly the same club head and ball speed, but yet had such a lower spin rate (2100) that he carried the ball 30 yards past sergio. Sure sergio would have got a lot of roll out, but so would Oliver with that spin rate.

http://dps.twiihosti...doc_528_828.pdf

Will you friggin relax dude? I never implied you didn't know much about golf. You made reference to a myth about pros having crazy swing speeds, you never said YOU believed pros had swing speeds in excess of 120. Only that there was a large group of people that did. And yes, i believe that the people who do, are people who aren't familiar with a lot of the details of pro golf (such as the way the fairways are cut to run like muni greens, and the amount of roll pros get to get their "350yd" drives, that generally carry a lot less). Most guys on THIS site have been to tour events and know that the average pro doesn't carry the ball over 300yds. But again, that DOESN'T mean the PDF wasn't cool and that you shouldn't have posted it

AGAIN, you've taken a couple of lines and blown them WAY out of proportion. I've made over 1000 posts on this site and i don't believe have ever directly insulted anyone.

pls give people the benefit of the doubt here or you will be in a fight every time you log on

[deepballer]

Something very funky is happening with all these numbers.
I hit plenty of balls on all types of "reputable" ball tracking systems, and this is my take from what I get on courses and various simulators.
They all do a great job tracking total distances! My distances I get on the monitors match those I get with SkyCaddy, except I get some more out on the course when I'm hitting fairways
Trackman gives less carry and lower spin rates than flightscope. And both measure clubhead speeds slower than actual. I have a small doppler radar unit that measures my swingspeed between 118-123mph, and I get 111-116mph on Trackman and flightscope. Interestingly, I'll also hit ballspeeds that exceed the 150% smashfactor.
So, my conclusion is someone is way off. Either Trackman or Flightsope, because both on tour and my experience is that you are getting two sets of different numbers with the same overall distances.

[kylemacca01]

The LM distances are estimated, those numbers are actual measured distance so you need to take into account wind and elevation changes etc. Explains why some of the numbers seem off. I agree with the trackman SS inaccuracy though, ive been given smash factors or 1.7 on trackmans which is just impossible. I do beleive the ball speed, spin and LA numbers are EXTREMELY accurate though.

[yoonie]

kylemacca01, on Jun 28 2009, 06:30 PM, said:

Im laughing at some of the responses here. Not really sure why there is so much bitching.

Personally i though the info was very interesting, Quiros is considered to be 'ridiculously' long and tbh i was expecting better than 124mph which is similar to the numbers i get.

As for the myth of tour pro SS many people on this site are well informed and most here know that the average pro swings it at about 110mph and so this wouldn't surprise us.

However a lot of people in the outside world seem to think pros hit it unbelievable distances. Ive been told by a 18hc golfer that SS is completely irrelevant and that i don't hit it anywhere near as far as the pros. Apparently they hit 3 iron as far as i hit my driver, well ok, 320+yds with a 3 iron seems feasible!

The difference between you and quiros is, you know when you REALLY catch one? He ALWAYS really catches one. I imagine if he played on wider courses (like we do) he could open it up a bit more, for a bit higher SS, at the cost of consistency. I'm guessing you're at 124 when you go all out, and that you don't go all out every driver shot (or ever, on the course). Assuming your "normal" driver swing is a very respectable ~120 mph, I would guess that Quiros going all out is a bit closer to 127.

[WMfan1994]

WOW! my swing speed is greater than a large percantage of those. mine is about 106mph and some of those are 100 or less.wow. i don't hit it quite as solid, so i don't hit it as far, but, that is very good to know, because all i have to do now is start hitting it a little solider to hit it pretty far.

[kylemacca01]

yoonie, on Jun 28 2009, 11:58 PM, said:

kylemacca01, on Jun 28 2009, 06:30 PM, said:

Im laughing at some of the responses here. Not really sure why there is so much bitching.

Personally i though the info was very interesting, Quiros is considered to be 'ridiculously' long and tbh i was expecting better than 124mph which is similar to the numbers i get.

As for the myth of tour pro SS many people on this site are well informed and most here know that the average pro swings it at about 110mph and so this wouldn't surprise us.

However a lot of people in the outside world seem to think pros hit it unbelievable distances. Ive been told by a 18hc golfer that SS is completely irrelevant and that i don't hit it anywhere near as far as the pros. Apparently they hit 3 iron as far as i hit my driver, well ok, 320+yds with a 3 iron seems feasible!

The difference between you and quiros is, you know when you REALLY catch one? He ALWAYS really catches one. I imagine if he played on wider courses (like we do) he could open it up a bit more, for a bit higher SS, at the cost of consistency. I'm guessing you're at 124 when you go all out, and that you don't go all out every driver shot (or ever, on the course). Assuming your "normal" driver swing is a very respectable ~120 mph, I would guess that Quiros going all out is a bit closer to 127.

Well tbh i do really go after most drivers i hit. If your going to hit driver you might as well hit it hard right??

My point was, with the stories ive heard like quiros clearing the fence at 350 on the range etc i was expecting 130mph+. Also JD, i am disappointed, 117 SS? 4000+rpm spin rate, POOR!

[yoonie]

Yeah, when you put it that way, I guess I kinda expected quiros to swing a bit faster than that. Still, the range is a pretty wide target- maybe he's really throttling back?

Btw, Daly was playing a big cut, maybe to ride the wind or something looking at the results.

[kylemacca01]

Yeah, it must have been downwind cos the carry was awesome. Amazes me how so few of these guys have the 'ideal' launch numbers everyone here work so hard to achieve. If my spin was 4k id be on the bst lol.

[Golfjdm]

I wanna know how Goosen swung 120 and the ball went 278, severe mishit? extreme balloon?

Although not averaged in any way, this is still a way a cool pdf. Shows you some real results not just "ideal" spin and launch with a strait flight. I'm guessing wind was a factor too.

[Asleep]

Where do these numbers come from?

Just one swing?

In a tournament?

[fred_wade]

LOL Poulter wont post #'s. Driver SS 102 would blow away the "it's gonna be just me and Tiger" claim. LOL

[Señor Rafa]

tommyjewell-1994, on Jun 29 2009, 12:02 AM, said:

WOW! my swing speed is greater than a large percantage of those. mine is about 106mph and some of those are 100 or less.wow. i don't hit it quite as solid, so i don't hit it as far, but, that is very good to know, because all i have to do now is start hitting it a little solider to hit it pretty far.

Yeah, those stats are very interesting and just makes you realise that you don't need a 120 MPH swing to bomb it 300 yards consistently. My swing is about 90 MPH, but I've had lessons in perfecting my ball-striking. Turns out my driver distance increased 5 yards by just hitting the ball more solid not having to make my swing any faster.

Asleep, on Jun 29 2009, 12:55 AM, said:

Where do these numbers come from?

Just one swing?

In a tournament?

I think it's done on average.

One stat that intrests me is this one:

Quote

CLARKE, Darren 111 165 2862 -540 8.7 69 5.9 278

I've actually seen Clarkey play twice hitting his driver and I'm very surprised about his carry distance and swing-speed. I always thought he carried it around 290 with a swing-speed a few MPH's quicker...

[Drive4Show]

What stands out to me is the ball speed, ex. - 110 SS 163 ball speed! I was fitted for a driver the other day and my SS was 102-116 but my ball speed never topped 155.

Also, I would like to know where/ how these numbers came to be. Some must have hit 3/5 wd to get in the 4500rpm range.

very interesting - nice pdf.

what golf nut has copied this to excel?

[mosesgolf]

I've been following Alvaro Quiros and those clubhead speed numbers are no surprise as he's usually at the top of distance stats on Euro and PGA Tour events. Not surprisingly, Rory Mcelroy is up there but he sure doesn't seem to swing 117. I guess that's what you call effortless power(God given talent and solid fundamentals). I was very surprised at Michael Campbell. I followed him at Torrie Pines US Open and he did seem to be a short knocker. That list confirms it. I guess you don't have to be long to win a US Open-ala Corey Pavin and MC. Angel Cabrea sure is giving up alot and he has Tiger and JB esque clubhead speed numbers too.

[Bricktop999]

I think these stats are from the BMW European Open at Wentworth held recently. Reason is that one of the names is a local pro to here that doesnt play on the tour but had an exemption, and as far as I am aware its the only Euro tour event he's played in. I attended one of the days there and didnt see any one hole where everyone hit driver, even on the longer holes some were hitting 3W and rescue. Having watched Karlsson on the range hitting drivers out of the back of the range, a carry of must be near 300yds according to the yardage markers, I suspect his quoted figure in the OP's first set of stats is not driver.

[bigred90gt]

mosesgolf, on Jun 29 2009, 02:11 AM, said:

I've been following Alvaro Quiros and those clubhead speed numbers are no surprise as he's usually at the top of distance stats on Euro and PGA Tour events. Not surprisingly, Rory Mcelroy is up there but he sure doesn't seem to swing 117. I guess that's what you call effortless power(God given talent and solid fundamentals). I was very surprised at Michael Campbell. I followed him at Torrie Pines US Open and he did seem to be a short knocker. That list confirms it. I guess you don't have to be long to win a US Open-ala Corey Pavin and MC. Angel Cabrea sure is giving up alot and he has Tiger and JB esque clubhead speed numbers too.

I was rather surprised by Michael Campbell's stats as well. 107 SS, 152 BS, and 221 carry just seems odd.

[clevelandgolf00]

surprised to see some under and around 100. One guy was 97 and carrying 250 but he had 13 launch and 2010 spin. my ss is similar and i only carry it about 230 when i really catch one. I think i need less spin because last time i was on the trackman i was spinning it mid 3000's. There were some really odd numbers, guys with 4000 spin rates, you would think they could bring that down with all the stuff they have access to.

[mosesgolf]

I have a feeling alot of those guys don't understand or not really into launch angles and spin numbers. They play what feels best and hits more fairways. They're probably not always trying to maximize distance. If you can knock it out there 280-300 most of the time, you're going to be in good shape. However, I can see Angel's face whenever he does get properly fit.
Hay Caramba!!!! Que paso!!!!!!!!! Treinte mas?????? Da me pronto!!!!!!

[stp]

MtlJeff, on Jun 28 2009, 01:21 PM, said:

[


WOW...

hmmm, where to begin...Again, thanks for the PDF, it actually is pretty cool to see (wasn't being sarcastic about that). And secondly, we have had MANY threads on this forum talking about pros and the vast majority of people here seem to be aware that the average pro SS is 110-115.

does that mean you wasted our time by posting this? No...But i answered the comment YOU made about the myth of the pro SS

Have a nice day, and enjoy your time on this site. I'm sure you won't be here long with that attitude

Jeff

Talk about attitude, what is your problem on this fine day. The guy makes a great post and now you are hazing him due to his title? Those are some great stats and are always welcome.

[Drive4Show]

Here is the pdf in excel format - I have added a smash factor column.

Attached File(s)

•  European_Tour_Stats.xls (42.5K)
  Number of downloads: 24

[CosmosMpower]

clevelandgolf00, on Jun 29 2009, 09:50 AM, said:

surprised to see some under and around 100. One guy was 97 and carrying 250 but he had 13 launch and 2010 spin. my ss is similar and i only carry it about 230 when i really catch one. I think i need less spin because last time i was on the trackman i was spinning it mid 3000's. There were some really odd numbers, guys with 4000 spin rates, you would think they could bring that down with all the stuff they have access to.

The real question is, how can you stand playing a stiff V2 with only 230 carry?

[Asleep]

Bricktop999, on Jun 29 2009, 06:08 AM, said:

I think these stats are from the BMW European Open at Wentworth held recently. Reason is that one of the names is a local pro to here that doesnt play on the tour but had an exemption, and as far as I am aware its the only Euro tour event he's played in. I attended one of the days there and didnt see any one hole where everyone hit driver, even on the longer holes some were hitting 3W and rescue. Having watched Karlsson on the range hitting drivers out of the back of the range, a carry of must be near 300yds according to the yardage markers, I suspect his quoted figure in the OP's first set of stats is not driver.

Okay, that makes more sense to me. Thanks.

[sheffield]

Quite interesting even if some of the variation here is due to club selection and conditions etc.

Some additional statistics:
averages Club speed = 112.0322581 Ball speed = 165.8709677 Backspin= 3114.406452 Side-spin = 105.3096774 Launch = 10.07483871 Height = 90.41290323 Time = 6.98516129 Carry = 273.9548387

Correlation:

Club speed : Ball speed = .967
Club speed : Carry = .755
Launch : Carry = .164
Backspin : Carry = .182
Ball Speed : Carry = .778
Height : Carry = .338

Maybe surprising that Launch angle has "low" correlation to carry; clearly these simple statistics don't necessarily tell the whole story.

Also interesting is that backspin has low correlation to height (.079) ---

[elwhippy]

This info should be rammed down the neck of every geek that works in a shop and will argue 'til midnight that a certain club is good for you cos Trackman says it is. My local shop must somehow rig their machine cos 112 clubhead speed (very strong but wild young amateur at my club) = 316 yards carry!! This info is a real reality check for a lot of so called 300 yards in the air men.

[Richie18]

elwhippy, on Jun 29 2009, 01:00 PM, said:

This info should be rammed down the neck of every geek that works in a shop and will argue 'til midnight that a certain club is good for you cos Trackman says it is. My local shop must somehow rig their machine cos 112 clubhead speed (very strong but wild young amateur at my club) = 316 yards carry!! This info is a real reality check for a lot of so called 300 yards in the air men.

Obviously all these guys aren't hitting driver off the tee and the launch angle and especially spin are being distorted due to it.

[seena_beena]

Quote

I have a feeling alot of those guys don't understand or not really into launch angles and spin numbers. They play what feels best and hits more fairways. They're probably not always trying to maximize distance. If you can knock it out there 280-300 most of the time, you're going to be in good shape. However, I can see Angel's face whenever he does get properly fit.
Hay Caramba!!!! Que paso!!!!!!!!! Treinte mas?????? Da me pronto!!!!!!

I think the PING Tour Rep might disagree................................

[randomhero1090]

jimb, on Jun 28 2009, 06:00 PM, said:

Quiros, WOW

Looks like a high fade bomb to me. -533 sidespin. Cut that down to -100 or less and your talking 320+ carry.


That's some monster SS however.