[Tim Delgado]

Just watching some second round coverage of the Byron Nelson on the Golf Channel, and on the 12th green after a bogey putt lipped out, Ian Poulter gave the middle finger to the hole. This was picked up very clearly by the Golf Channel camera and both announcers reacted to it with an uncomfortable chuckle.

My question is, does the tour fine guys for this sort of thing?

I would think a small fine would be in order. Players simply can't go around a course full of television cameras flipping the bird, even if it was not directed at anyone and was just frustration.

I like Poulter, but I don't think the tour can ignore this sort of thing. Just my opinion.

Tim

[kitsoasis]

mjtoal, on May 23 2009, 06:35 PM, said:

Shouldn't be a big deal, but US TV gets its knickers in a twist very easily (Janet Jackson and U2, for example), so I guess a fine will be given.

What I thought when I read the first post.
Good on Ian. He has character, not like half the robots out there.

[Tim Delgado]

kitsoasis, on May 23 2009, 03:38 AM, said:

mjtoal, on May 23 2009, 06:35 PM, said:

Shouldn't be a big deal, but US TV gets its knickers in a twist very easily (Janet Jackson and U2, for example), so I guess a fine will be given.

What I thought when I read the first post.
Good on Ian. He has character, not like half the robots out there.

I don't think it is that big a deal either, but I am not on board with your "Good on" response.

There are plenty of non-robots on tour. This is not how a tour player needs to show "character" IMO.

Tim

[peebody]

my thoughts would be also good on him , playing under the gun as those know that have is different ballgame , most anal comments here come from dreamers that cant hit there hat .....

[iloverickystevekarl]

So let me just clarify this -

you are suggesting that a man is made to pay money to an organisation for tensing his extensor digitorum muscle of whichever hand was involved and therefore causing his middle phalanx to fully extend, whilst also maintaining the remaining four digits in full flexion, aiming this motion at a round shaped hole in the ground?

I think you are suffering from a chronic case of Stickuth-uppath-arsus. A terrible disease to say the least.

[BMWGOLFER]

iloverickystevekarl, on May 23 2009, 07:23 AM, said:

So let me just clarify this -

you are suggesting that a man is made to pay money to an organisation for tensing his extensor digitorum muscle of whichever hand was involved and therefore causing his middle phalanx to fully extend, whilst also maintaining the remaining four digits in full flexion, aiming this motion at a round shaped hole in the ground?

I think you are suffering from a chronic case of Stickuth-uppath-arsus. A terrible disease to say the least.

Damn dude! The guy did not deserve all that! He just asked a simple question! Chill out some no one deserves to be attacked for asking a question.

[Swingtheclub]

Its my understanding that the pga tour will probably fine him but you will never no or how much its not there policy to divulge such things.

Should he be fined personally I could care less.

[yoonie]

iloverickystevekarl, on May 23 2009, 09:23 AM, said:

So let me just clarify this -

you are suggesting that a man is made to pay money to an organisation for tensing his extensor digitorum muscle of whichever hand was involved and therefore causing his middle phalanx to fully extend, whilst also maintaining the remaining four digits in full flexion, aiming this motion at a round shaped hole in the ground?

I think you are suffering from a chronic case of Stickuth-uppath-arsus. A terrible disease to say the least.

Anatomical terminology does not change the fact that a professional athlete (and by extension, someone whose job entails interacting with the public) gave the finger on international TV. Either you know you're on camera and respect that or you pick a job where you don't have to be.

Are you allowed to give the finger to customers at work? Or just give the finger to whatever you feel like in general, where customers can see you?

Yes, Poulter will surely be fined.

[iloverickystevekarl]

Sorry, was not meant to be personal. I just think that someone doesnt deserve to get fined for sticking up a finger at a hole in the ground. Surely common sense would prevail and just leave it. Ultimately he is a big draw for fans and a large revenue maker due to his character - which is colourful in many different ways.

Come on guys, he flipped off a hole! Not like it was a little 5 yr old fan of his!

Just be glad its a finger because at least he didnt spit in the cup.

[Pepperturbo]

Ian' action isn't that big a deal by itself, but I can't agree with anyone that says "Good on". For God sakes TV cameras' and kid are watching.

Tour players are Professionals, and under of that label comes proper behavior including self-control. Ian's a unique and entertaining guy for the most par, but has a hot kid like temper at times; much like Rory S. Ian should know better and the tour should consequence him, and the consequences should be stern enough to get his attention.

[hogans71]

iloverickystevekarl, on May 23 2009, 08:54 AM, said:

Sorry, was not meant to be personal. I just think that someone doesnt deserve to get fined for sticking up a finger at a hole in the ground. Surely common sense would prevail and just leave it. Ultimately he is a big draw for fans and a large revenue maker due to his character - which is colourful in many different ways.

Come on guys, he flipped off a hole! Not like it was a little 5 yr old fan of his!

Just be glad its a finger because at least he didnt spit in the cup.

That is one of the funniest things I have ever read on here...

[yoonie]

iloverickystevekarl, on May 23 2009, 09:54 AM, said:

Sorry, was not meant to be personal. I just think that someone doesnt deserve to get fined for sticking up a finger at a hole in the ground. Surely common sense would prevail and just leave it. Ultimately he is a big draw for fans and a large revenue maker due to his character - which is colourful in many different ways.

Come on guys, he flipped off a hole! Not like it was a little 5 yr old fan of his!

Just be glad its a finger because at least he didnt spit in the cup.

I understand what you're saying, but he didn't flip off a hole. He flipped off a hole at work, on international TV.

It would be like you making a dirty joke at work- except today is the day you film your nationally televised advertisement, and you did it on camera.

[hogans71]

yoonie, on May 23 2009, 08:49 AM, said:

iloverickystevekarl, on May 23 2009, 09:23 AM, said:

So let me just clarify this -

you are suggesting that a man is made to pay money to an organisation for tensing his extensor digitorum muscle of whichever hand was involved and therefore causing his middle phalanx to fully extend, whilst also maintaining the remaining four digits in full flexion, aiming this motion at a round shaped hole in the ground?

I think you are suffering from a chronic case of Stickuth-uppath-arsus. A terrible disease to say the least.

Anatomical terminology does not change the fact that a professional athlete (and by extension, someone whose job entails interacting with the public) gave the finger on international TV. Either you know you're on camera and respect that or you pick a job where you don't have to be.

Are you allowed to give the finger to customers at work? Or just give the finger to whatever you feel like in general, where customers can see you?

Yes, Poulter will surely be fined.

Although it is not a big deal to me personally, I agree 100% with you...

[kitsoasis]

No big deal, and he'll get fined or something because that's just the way it is.

But the CHILDREN? You've got to be kidding, if children get their negative influence from the GOLF CHANNEL watching some Pom hit a ball with a stick then I think that's actually a good thing.

[bscinstnct]

His fine should be that he must repeat the same gesture while wearing those pink pants as he serves beers at a NASCAR
event.

[iloverickystevekarl]

yoonie, on May 23 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

iloverickystevekarl, on May 23 2009, 09:54 AM, said:

Sorry, was not meant to be personal. I just think that someone doesnt deserve to get fined for sticking up a finger at a hole in the ground. Surely common sense would prevail and just leave it. Ultimately he is a big draw for fans and a large revenue maker due to his character - which is colourful in many different ways.

Come on guys, he flipped off a hole! Not like it was a little 5 yr old fan of his!

Just be glad its a finger because at least he didnt spit in the cup.

I understand what you're saying, but he didn't flip off a hole. He flipped off a hole at work, on international TV.

It would be like you making a dirty joke at work- except today is the day you film your nationally televised advertisement, and you did it on camera.

But it isnt like that. He wasnt making a dirty joke. A better analogy would be flipping off a stapler that just jammed on you whilst being filmed at work.......and how stupid does that sound!

What boss would fine someone for flipping off a piece of stationary?!

I just dont get the over-reaction over what to me, is an insanely trivial gesture to an inominate object.

Seriously, am I the only one that thinks this is nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking? I understand that flipping off someone can be offensive, especially to a young kid watching on TV, but to be honest, does the kid really understand whats going on? I'd personally be more worried about my child seeing the "Vivaaaaaa Viagraaaaaa, do you fail at getting hard regularly?" commercials every five minutes than seeing a fleeting hand gesture.

If he spat in the cup or did something that is genuinely offensive then sure, fine the man. But I just cant see the good in fining someone for that. After all, ALOT of swearing goes on all the time.......I was watching a live cooking show this morning on the BBC and a french dude accidentaly let off an F-bomb whilst cooking an omelette, it was 10AM.....he said sorry and they let it go! Stuff like this happens......we are only human.

I think as spectators we should be the ones that concede to that fact that these guys are playing a pro sport in a high pressured environment, and that on live TV maybe we should expect to see a bit of passion and just take it on the chin instead of getting our knickers in a twist! Otherwise, watching live golf can be soooooo boring to watch, as it regularly is.

Does his gesture genuinely offend you peeps? Seriously?

[Mr.B]

David Toms gave someone the finger in a not-so-subtle way to someone in the crowd and he didn't get fined (allegedly) so I doubt that Poulter would get fined for giving the finger to the cup

http://www.golfwrx.c...h...&#entry7747

[woohoo4me]

If flipping off the hole can turn me into a plus handicap, tour caliber player then I'm all for and am off to the gym for some serious finger exercises........

/Poulter will get fined for "conduct unbecoming"
//Personally doesn't bother me in the least
///Quit beating up on Tim, he asked a question out of curiousity

Cheers,

Woo

[Tstiles]

I suspect that on the 1st tee of his next event , he will get the envelope .

That's the way they did it along time ago ... No conversation , No drama , just make your check out in this amount , payable to PGA Tour.

[Asleep]

I think Poulter should be forced to wear pleated plain black pants/black belt/black shoes with white shirt as his punishment.


It may not be a "big deal" now, but I guarantee you'll be ticked when the middle school principal calls for you to come pick up your suspended 11 year old because he flipped-off his teacher in class.

[jzatl04]

hogans71, on May 23 2009, 09:13 AM, said:

iloverickystevekarl, on May 23 2009, 08:54 AM, said:

Sorry, was not meant to be personal. I just think that someone doesnt deserve to get fined for sticking up a finger at a hole in the ground. Surely common sense would prevail and just leave it. Ultimately he is a big draw for fans and a large revenue maker due to his character - which is colourful in many different ways.

Come on guys, he flipped off a hole! Not like it was a little 5 yr old fan of his!

Just be glad its a finger because at least he didnt spit in the cup.

That is one of the funniest things I have ever read on here...

I have to agree. Are we talking about the same Ian Poulter??

[bscinstnct]

jzatl04, on May 23 2009, 12:06 PM, said:

hogans71, on May 23 2009, 09:13 AM, said:

iloverickystevekarl, on May 23 2009, 08:54 AM, said:

Sorry, was not meant to be personal. I just think that someone doesnt deserve to get fined for sticking up a finger at a hole in the ground. Surely common sense would prevail and just leave it. Ultimately he is a big draw for fans and a large revenue maker due to his character - which is colourful in many different ways.

Come on guys, he flipped off a hole! Not like it was a little 5 yr old fan of his!

Just be glad its a finger because at least he didnt spit in the cup.

That is one of the funniest things I have ever read on here...

I have to agree. Are we talking about the same Ian Poulter??

Haven't you seen Ian's Army out on the track? You really can't miss them.

[yoonie]

iloverickystevekarl, on May 23 2009, 10:53 AM, said:

yoonie, on May 23 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

iloverickystevekarl, on May 23 2009, 09:54 AM, said:

Sorry, was not meant to be personal. I just think that someone doesnt deserve to get fined for sticking up a finger at a hole in the ground. Surely common sense would prevail and just leave it. Ultimately he is a big draw for fans and a large revenue maker due to his character - which is colourful in many different ways.

Come on guys, he flipped off a hole! Not like it was a little 5 yr old fan of his!

Just be glad its a finger because at least he didnt spit in the cup.

I understand what you're saying, but he didn't flip off a hole. He flipped off a hole at work, on international TV.

It would be like you making a dirty joke at work- except today is the day you film your nationally televised advertisement, and you did it on camera.

But it isnt like that. He wasnt making a dirty joke. A better analogy would be flipping off a stapler that just jammed on you whilst being filmed at work.......and how stupid does that sound!

What boss would fine someone for flipping off a piece of stationary?!

I just dont get the over-reaction over what to me, is an insanely trivial gesture to an inominate object.

Seriously, am I the only one that thinks this is nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking? I understand that flipping off someone can be offensive, especially to a young kid watching on TV, but to be honest, does the kid really understand whats going on? I'd personally be more worried about my child seeing the "Vivaaaaaa Viagraaaaaa, do you fail at getting hard regularly?" commercials every five minutes than seeing a fleeting hand gesture.

If he spat in the cup or did something that is genuinely offensive then sure, fine the man. But I just cant see the good in fining someone for that. After all, ALOT of swearing goes on all the time.......I was watching a live cooking show this morning on the BBC and a french dude accidentaly let off an F-bomb whilst cooking an omelette, it was 10AM.....he said sorry and they let it go! Stuff like this happens......we are only human.

I think as spectators we should be the ones that concede to that fact that these guys are playing a pro sport in a high pressured environment, and that on live TV maybe we should expect to see a bit of passion and just take it on the chin instead of getting our knickers in a twist! Otherwise, watching live golf can be soooooo boring to watch, as it regularly is.

Does his gesture genuinely offend you peeps? Seriously?

It doesn't offend me. If i was his boss, and he represented my organization to hundreds of millions of people watching across the world and he completely ignored the code of conduct he agreed to follow as a PGA professional, then I'd be pissed.

I don't get what you could possibly be arguing. You simply can't do things like that at work in front of your customers unless you're a rapper.

If you have a problem with the way society views cursing and the finger in general, that's a completely different and only tangentially related issue.

[iloverickystevekarl]

I'm arguing that it is human nature to get angry and frustrated. Just like its human nature to fist pump when you hole one that nets you a cool $200,000. Unfortunately not everyone can smile after missing a 3 footer. I know I bloody well cant! It's sports, lots of money at stake - I say show some emotion. To me, the spectator, it shows that they want to be there, and they aren't just there for the road. I'd much rather watch Poulter play 18 holes than someone with less character, and frankly looks like they dont want to be there, not to say they dont, because I'm sure they feel really lucky to be there. But for me, I want to see Tiger swearing, Poulter flipping and Hoffmann lobbing putters in the drink, cos that shows that they actually have blood running through their veins, and are not as robotic as their golf game suggests. To each his own I suppose. I think in this case the more controversial Poulter is and the more people like us chat about him, the better, because as the saying goes, any press is good press.

[Will Par]

You can't compare this to a dirty joke at work. Maybe compare it to flipping off the copy machine when it jams. Or your computer when the network crashes and you lose the spreadsheet you had worked on for 45 minutes. Or if you hammer your thumb instead of the nail. It's just a normal human reaction to a frustrating event. No worse than saying an expletive which is what most of us would do. Is it somewhat unprofessional in this situation? Perhaps.

[BJG718]

ive heard plenty of players curse out loud and you can always see tiger mouthing profanity. i dont think its that big of a deal.

[iloverickystevekarl]

Will Par, on May 23 2009, 01:40 PM, said:

You can't compare this to a dirty joke at work. Maybe compare it to flipping off the copy machine when it jams. Or your computer when the network crashes and you lose the spreadsheet you had worked on for 45 minutes. Or if you hammer your thumb instead of the nail. It's just a normal human reaction to a frustrating event. No worse than saying an expletive which is what most of us would do. Is it somewhat unprofessional in this situation? Perhaps.

Thank you!! Thought I was the only human here for a while!

[SwingLikeElk]

There is never a reason to use such a gesture on a golf course. This was not the worst thing ever seen on TV, but was thoughtless and careless and a fine is in order, without question. Then we move on.

Poor sportsmanship absolutely.

[wwhitehead]

He's paid by the Tour to abide by their standards, which include parameters for behavior. He should be fined for the same reason he's required to wear long pants.

WW

[yoonie]

Maybe a dirty joke was a bad example. The point is that they're both rather harmless actions that can be pretty out of line when taken out of context.

It's ok if you flip the copier off, or you computer when it crashes because you didn't agree to appear in front of hundreds of cameras every week, and you didn't agree to uphold a code of conduct that is to be expected of someone with such a public profile. Ian Poulter did, and then broke his agreement.

I mean, it's pretty basic- there's tons of stuff you simply can't do at work. The specific things are different depending on the job. For example, no breakdancing if you're doing high rise construction. Don't come in with a cough if you work in the foodservice industry. Don't flip people (or objects) off if you work in front of the camera.

It's not that big a deal as an incident, but it absolutely should be fined. You can't set a precedent of letting people slide when they fail to understand their basic job requirements- especially when you're dealing with billions of dollars in sponsorship from very image conscious companies. Obviously, one guy giving the finger isn't going to make sponsors drop out, but a tour that tacitly condones it by NOT fining despite clearly outlined rules- now that's a different issue.

I just want to be clear- I could very easily see myself doing the same thing. I, like Poulter, am human, and can be expected to make mistakes. The pressure of competition and the angst of missing a makable putt could easily get me doing things like cursing, giving the hole the finger, etc. I would, however, fully expect to fined and consider the punishment very appropriate since it would be pretty clear to me that I deserved it. Like any other rule of golf, you take the penalty when you commit the infraction, fair or otherwise.

[_hoodwink]

As far as the pga is concerned, he'll probably get a warning unless it multiples into a chronic issue. Its a bigger issue with every brand that is paying him to play their gear. Surely, they don't want their company to be branded with someone that can't control themselves in a professional manner. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a "good behavior" clause written into each of his sponsorship contracts.

[hogans71]

iloverickystevekarl, on May 23 2009, 12:37 PM, said:

I'm arguing that it is human nature to get angry and frustrated. Just like its human nature to fist pump when you hole one that nets you a cool $200,000. Unfortunately not everyone can smile after missing a 3 footer. I know I bloody well cant! It's sports, lots of money at stake - I say show some emotion. To me, the spectator, it shows that they want to be there, and they aren't just there for the road. I'd much rather watch Poulter play 18 holes than someone with less character, and frankly looks like they dont want to be there, not to say they dont, because I'm sure they feel really lucky to be there. But for me, I want to see Tiger swearing, Poulter flipping and Hoffmann lobbing putters in the drink, cos that shows that they actually have blood running through their veins, and are not as robotic as their golf game suggests. To each his own I suppose. I think in this case the more controversial Poulter is and the more people like us chat about him, the better, because as the saying goes, any press is good press.

I dont feel as if he's being controversial, he's being himself- and I think that's just fine and dandy. I would venture to say there is a few on here, myself included, who have thrown out some rather "colorful" words etc, during a round of golf. The very clear difference being the privilege of competing for millions of dollars requires a certain code of conduct. When that conduct is breached however large or small, penalties of some sort will be incurred.
As far as the coverage he gets... No matter what he does on the golf course he will ALWAYS be known for the colorful attire rather than his ability- AND that absolute ridiculous statement regarding TW and himself being the ones everyone else will be chasing. At least on this side of the pond...
I suppose until he wins a major or something of consequence.

By the way, I actually enjoy his game so no bias on this end...

[desaille]

there are far worse things on TV than Ian flipping off the hole

ie
American Idol
Dancing with the stars

"insert all reality tv shows"

[02bluesuperroo]

Quote

I understand what you're saying, but he didn't flip off a hole. He flipped off a hole at work, on international TV.

Quote

It doesn't offend me. If i was his boss, and he represented my organization to hundreds of millions of people watching across the world and he completely ignored the code of conduct he agreed to follow as a PGA professional, then I'd be pissed.

I don't get what you could possibly be arguing. You simply can't do things like that at work in front of your customers unless you're a rapper.

If you have a problem with the way society views cursing and the finger in general, that's a completely different and only tangentially related issue.

Quote

Poor sportsmanship absolutely.

Quote

He's paid by the Tour to abide by their standards, which include parameters for behavior. He should be fined for the same reason he's required to wear long pants.

This.

[Kregan]

I would rather explain to my kids what the finger is then have to explain to them what erectile dysfunction is.

Pepperturbo, on May 23 2009, 10:01 AM, said:

Ian' action isn't that big a deal by itself, but I can't agree with anyone that says "Good on". For God sakes TV cameras' and kid are watching.

[1big_whipper]

Kregan, on May 23 2009, 06:36 PM, said:

I would rather explain to my kids what the finger is then have to explain to them what erectile dysfunction is.

Pepperturbo, on May 23 2009, 10:01 AM, said:

Ian' action isn't that big a deal by itself, but I can't agree with anyone that says "Good on". For God sakes TV cameras' and kid are watching.

+1


Get over it folks. Does Tiger get fined for all the "God dammits!" that can be seen almost every week? Read lips on alot of pros reactions to bad shots and an assortment of words with the same meaning as the finger, etc. are seen. Why is this even a thread?

[kitsoasis]

1big_whipper, on May 24 2009, 09:31 AM, said:

Why is this even a thread?

Because some people are so self righteous that they need to point it out and say how offensive and anti-social it is.
Seriously, get over yourselves.

[slickpitt]

I thought it was pretty damn funny... and given the circumstances... well warranted

[augiep38]

Pepperturbo, on May 23 2009, 10:01 AM, said:

For God sakes TV cameras' and kid are watching.

Why is it the general publics responsibility for what someone else's kid sees? I never understood this line of thinking. Raising kids does not take a village - it takes a parent.

I also say good on Poulter.