[uvm]

Carolina golfer- as i mentioned previously i pretty much agree with your posts in this thread.

one question though, do you think you notice these service issues more so because you are in the hospitality / service biz?

i have a pal that is a mator'd at a fancy steak house in Chicago. now, he is very good at his job and notices things at his restaurant that i am sure customers don’t even notice, but have to be fixed right away...now, this guy literally almost can’t go out for dinner at other places because all he notices is what’s wrong with this or that. It has really taken the pleasure out of eating out..

so, hopefully this type of scenario is not your situation as I can see that getting quite annoying and taking the fun out of life.

.02

[Ronzo]

Not necessarily. I'm not in the hospitality business, and I notice things like that too.

I played Heron Bay with three friends a few weeks ago, and they closed the grill at 6 PM on a Saturday afternoon. For that matter, they closed the whole clubhouse! If I had left anything in the Locker Room, I would have been very angry to have had to come back the following day to retrieve it. And yes, the beverage cart made last call at 4 PM. We started at 2, finished at 6. It gets dark here at 8 these days.

If you are going to offer tee times that last into the twilight hours, then all the facilities should be at your disposal. It took the luster off of what I expected to be a very good golf experience, IMO. I guess that's why they're no longer a TPC club.

EDIT: BTW, the reason you pay less for the afternoon tee times is so that the course can do additional business -- NOT because the facilities will not be available! If the course was privately owned and the principal owner found the club shut down at 6 by the staff, I wonder what his or her reaction would be.

[Onebulldogs]

adtucker, on May 12 2009, 04:31 PM, said:

hef63303, on May 11 2009, 04:02 PM, said:

I don't think you could be more wrong to be upset. The restaurant is not part of the golf course. At some golf courses, it is not even owned by the course. You certainly should not expect a lower price on the golf course just because the restaurant is not open or operating when you want it. Did you ask if the restaurant was going to be open the next morning?

We are all going to have to lower our expectations. In these economic times, golf course amenities and golf course maintenance are going to suffer as courses try to find a way to stay in business. Courses are laying off personnel in record numbers to try to stay open.

Golf, especially resort golf and high-end golf, is a service industry. If you went to the Marriott and they had a gravel parking lot, you wouldn't think to yourself "well, this is a hotel, not a parking service."

As luck would have it, our company "encourages" us to stay at the Marriott when we travel. In addition to a clean room and a bed, I expect room service and other amenities. At Motel 6, not so much.

[InTheHole]

My wife and I have our own business. There is no such thing as "closed for business" when we should be open.

I was at the beach once and tried to go to a beach shop around 11 in the morning to pick up some more sun screen. The sign on the door said, "Closed- went home to feed the dog. Back in two hours." And the sign was professionally made- so this was a regular occurence for this business. I went elsewhere. Now, nothing against the little pooch- I LOVE dogs and believe they need to be properly cared for at all times- but hire some part time help so your business can stay open!

The experience that the OP had is a perfect example- he'll think twice about going back to that golf course. What does that say about that business? It says to me they really don't want to have a business. It says the customer comes second.

[CPSOX]

Wow, crazy thread.

IMO, the "amenities" is what is hurting golf now....the "country club for a day" nonsense. Frills are crazy expensive for courses to maintain and I've not seen a full restaurant at a course pay for itself. They almost always drain on the bottom line. Cut away all the BS and focus on #1 tee through #18 green. Face it, that's why you went there. You don't book a hotel room because of the gift shop, just like you don't pick a golf course because of a restaurant.

Some of the absolute best courses in the world you'd be lucky to get a bowl of pretzels and a beer after the round. It's all about the golf.

[Golfinnova]

CG2,

Glad to see that you got some of our "old" group together (wished I was there to play with you guys), hope that you all had a great time. That FT9 is sweet looking

Going back to this topic, I'm going to give my reply based on my own experiences as a business owner, golfer, and dealing with F&B managers at courses that are current clients of mine.

1. You definately are correct in your conclusions, granted we don't know what is happening on their end. Cook may have called in sick for example; however, as you stated correctly that is no excuse for the head pro to take the attitude he took with you. Put out a pot of coffee and get some danish, doughnuts, muffins. As another poster stated, those who give the service will survive and those that don't will find themselves out of business or a job. It's what I strive for in my business that makes me stand out from my competitors.

2. I do understand what others have said about restaurants being "bottom feeders". Some of the courses here in Vegas have no cart service at all, close their restaurants early, go bare bones on operations. With payroll being the biggest expense of any business, there isn't enough revenue to justify keeping the staff. My club added a grill next to the putting green last year and they are doing incredible business, they added some of my products and they are making incredible profit off of them. So it just depends on how high ownership wants to set the bar.

3. Prior to coming out to Vegas, I was working as a ranger at a muni. I will say that working at a course whether you are the head pro or a cart girl is tough. The hours are long, you never know when your shift will end, you get complaints from absolute idiots, and the pay sucks. (I only did it for the free golf 1 day a week volunteering). Turnover is constant in this industry, anyone who thinks that the golf industry would be a fantastic career choice better be well informed for what they are in for because it's not glamorous folks. To that end, I might can see why the head pro took that attitude (not excusing it though), he probably should be looking for a career change.

4. While Ocean City (and the surrounding area including DE and NJ) are resort areas, that should only reinforce your point that during the winter those areas are dead and that during this time of the year they should be maximizing their revenue streams. There are tons of east coast golfers like yourself ready to escape the golf inactivity that winter brings (one of the reasons why I moved to Vegas). Obviously the economy didn't stop you from buying that FT9 so just think what having the restaurant open could have done for the rest of the course, it could have led you to buy apparel at the pro shop. Some of the other posters made comments that it was no big deal and is not part of the course experience. I've got to disagree just because it does affect how you play, think about it for a second you are hungry and couldn't get a bite then during the round you start playing like crap because you are hungry so you paid all this money so you can shoot a lousy round???? And for what because some short-sighted golf pro couldn't put himself in your shoes and get a pot of coffee and danish.

OK I'm getting off the soap box now. You'll have to tell me who all played in this gathering.

Have a good one,
Golfinnova

[Carolina Golfer 2]

Nova, Good to hear from you. First things first. The FT-9 isn not mine. I sure wish ist was, but I have no idea how it got in that post. I tried to deete it but it kept coming back. I hate that it's there, as some probably think what does this have to do with the topic But you're right it is a sweet looking club whoever owns it!!!

You made excellent well written points, and I agree with all of them. The thing you touched on that was right on. Is OK, if you know you're going to have your grill closed and it's just a couple hours. Think outside the box, and provide some dunkin dounuts and juice or a pot or two of coffee. If you want to sell it great, you'll probably make your small investment back plus a few bucks. Oh better yet, offer it complimentary as an apology for not having the grill open.

To those who said I shouldn't have picked the course based on the restaurant, there missing the entire point, I didn't give a doodly about the restaurant, all I did was check the day before to make sure they had something that was open in the morning, so I knew whether to stop or not. Another point that I completely forgot to make.

I TRIED to eat before going to the course. I left the condo half an hour before we were scheduled to leave for the course to go to a McDonalds a block down the road. It was scheduled to open at 6:00 got there at 6:03 doors locked. Tried a Burger King down the road same thing. Came back to McD's around 6:10 the staff was just getting there and said it would take 15 to 20 minutes to get everything warmed up. I had to get back to the condo for us to get ready, by the time I got back all the guys were ready to go, so that began the process of thinking I'll just get something at the course.

So it was a confluence of circumstances that led me to being so upseet about this. I had no idea the thread would generate such a wide variety of opinions, but I'm glad it has. There has been a lot of good thoughts, on both sides of the argument.

I'll shoot you an email with the playing details of the trip.

[KMeloney]

Carolina Golfer 2, on May 13 2009, 07:37 AM, said:

I TRIED to eat before going to the course. I left the condo half an hour before we were scheduled to leave for the course to go to a McDonalds a block down the road. It was scheduled to open at 6:00 got there at 6:03 doors locked. Tried a Burger King down the road same thing. Came back to McD's around 6:10 the staff was just getting there and said it would take 15 to 20 minutes to get everything warmed up. I had to get back to the condo for us to get ready, by the time I got back all the guys were ready to go, so that began the process of thinking I'll just get something at the course.

I certainly hope you voiced your displeasure regarding their hours of operation on the McDonald's and Burger King forums...

[Carolina Golfer 2]

KMeloney, on May 13 2009, 10:09 AM, said:

Carolina Golfer 2, on May 13 2009, 07:37 AM, said:

I TRIED to eat before going to the course. I left the condo half an hour before we were scheduled to leave for the course to go to a McDonalds a block down the road. It was scheduled to open at 6:00 got there at 6:03 doors locked. Tried a Burger King down the road same thing. Came back to McD's around 6:10 the staff was just getting there and said it would take 15 to 20 minutes to get everything warmed up. I had to get back to the condo for us to get ready, by the time I got back all the guys were ready to go, so that began the process of thinking I'll just get something at the course.

I certainly hope you voiced your displeasure regarding their hours of operation on the McDonald's and Burger King forums...

K- ROFLMA, that's too funny. I'll have to get to that this afternoon, and while I'm at it, I'll have to let them know the last time I was there the slide in the playland had too many kids on it and I didn't have time to go down it before my Big Mac was ready

On a serious note, on your earlier post, you make the same comments that a lot of others on here have made that you shouldn't count on the extra ammenities, that they are just there for whatever reason. While I see that point, I have a hard time digesting the fact, why HAVE THEM if you aren't going to operate them fully. Again, I agree with your main point that at the end of the day it's the course that makes or breaks the experience, and no I didn't really want a discount, it was more the principal of the matter.

As another poster said, maybe because I'm in the hospitality service business I get frustrated when I see others taking short cuts or providing horrible service/attitude (head pro).

On another side note, in my initial anger and frustration, I sent an email to the company that owns/manages the course about the experience and have yet to hear anything back. Again, I'm not expecting anything but would like to see if they even care.

Thanks for your comments.

[twgolf]

I can understand everything the original poster had said, however I cannot agree with the head pro acting in this manner. This is TOTALLY unacceptable!! I have to commend you on how you handled the situation, because I would not have been so courteous or shown as much self control as you. If I was on a golfing trip and the pro had said this to me, "Did you come here to eat breakfast or play golf?" I would have severely expressed my displeasure with his attitude, and cancelled my tee time and found somewhere else to play for the day. I know that the head pro would not care one way or another if I played or not, but I would not play at a course after being treated that way by the head pro, that's just me.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

twgolf, on May 13 2009, 10:55 AM, said:

I can understand everything the original poster had said, however I cannot agree with the head pro acting in this manner. This is TOTALLY unacceptable!! I have to commend you on how you handled the situation, because I would not have been so courteous or shown as much self control as you. If I was on a golfing trip and the pro had said this to me, "Did you come here to eat breakfast or play golf?" I would have severely expressed my displeasure with his attitude, and cancelled my tee time and found somewhere else to play for the day. I know that the head pro would not care one way or another if I played or not, but I would not play at a course after being treated that way by the head pro, that's just me.

Thanks, actually one of the guys suggested that. However, with it being Mother's Day a few of the guys had committments to be home in time for dinner and as we had already left the beach area there weren't really any choices that we knew of in the immediate area.

And if you knew me, you'd really be shocked that I held back as much as I did, but again I didn't won't to ruin anything for anyone else.

[Ogre41]

I don't think the OP is wrong for expecting to be able to access all of the facilities that the course advertises they have. They have them to distinguish themselves from the pack. I for one would not want to play any of the courses that he had trouble with (and living in Gaithersburg, MD, trips to OC are mentioned alot). As for the attitude of the head pro, that's redonkulous. I don't care how bad of a day you have, your job is to make the experience pleasant for the customer. He failed miserably. While I wouldn't of chewed him out or anything, I would have insisted on getting his employer's information so I would be able to contach them. Not for a discount, I wouldn't play there for free either. But I would hope that the issue would be fixed and that the next customer didn't have to put up with that. As far as the golf course being the great draw, it is the draw, initially. After that it's the service that I recieve when I am there. The best two courses that come to mind are Whiskey Creek in MD and Meadows Farms in VA. If I ever had an issue with either one, I am certain that they would be dealt with quickly and more than to my satisfaction.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

Ogre41, on May 13 2009, 11:11 AM, said:

I don't think the OP is wrong for expecting to be able to access all of the facilities that the course advertises they have. They have them to distinguish themselves from the pack. I for one would not want to play any of the courses that he had trouble with (and living in Gaithersburg, MD, trips to OC are mentioned alot). As for the attitude of the head pro, that's redonkulous. I don't care how bad of a day you have, your job is to make the experience pleasant for the customer. He failed miserably. While I wouldn't of chewed him out or anything, I would have insisted on getting his employer's information so I would be able to contach them. Not for a discount, I wouldn't play there for free either. But I would hope that the issue would be fixed and that the next customer didn't have to put up with that. As far as the golf course being the great draw, it is the draw, initially. After that it's the service that I recieve when I am there. The best two courses that come to mind are Whiskey Creek in MD and Meadows Farms in VA. If I ever had an issue with either one, I am certain that they would be dealt with quickly and more than to my satisfaction.

+1 on Whiskey Creek. We play there reguarly.

[Ronzo]

CPSOX, on May 12 2009, 09:48 PM, said:

Some of the absolute best courses in the world you'd be lucky to get a bowl of pretzels and a beer after the round. It's all about the golf.

At Heron Bay, we couldn't even get pretzels and beer at 6 PM on a Saturday in late April -- still high tourism season here -- with sundown at 8 PM. And I don't care about the grill being a drag on the course's revenue stream. They are SELLING the "country club for a day" experience, and their rates certainly reflect that. Even after 2 PM.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

uvm, on May 12 2009, 04:49 PM, said:

Carolina golfer- as i mentioned previously i pretty much agree with your posts in this thread.

one question though, do you think you notice these service issues more so because you are in the hospitality / service biz?

i have a pal that is a mator'd at a fancy steak house in Chicago. now, he is very good at his job and notices things at his restaurant that i am sure customers don’t even notice, but have to be fixed right away...now, this guy literally almost can’t go out for dinner at other places because all he notices is what’s wrong with this or that. It has really taken the pleasure out of eating out..

so, hopefully this type of scenario is not your situation as I can see that getting quite annoying and taking the fun out of life.

.02

UVM, Sure I think because I'm in the service industry I probably pay more attention to levels of service and if things are being done correctly or not than most. I appreicate good service and products and let it be know to the establishment and as is well documented do the same with poor service.

However, for the same reason being in the service industry, I know things WILL go wrong and not as planned for the customer. So I'm certainly understanding of issues and problems. But it is all in how you deal with the problems and showing a sincere concern for the customer's situation. I would saying "did you come here to play golf or eat?" does not fall into that category

I'm a Hertz Gold Member and on a recent trip they messed up my delievery (there was no car in the numbered space that was on the board) and the return, when I called to extend the rental one day, the person on the phone changed the rate to almost twice what I was orignally quoted. However both agents that I dealt with at the Location handled the problem right away. The manager on the day of the rental offered an upgrade to a Infiniti (which I graciously declined but appreciated) and the lady on the return becasue I had to go inside and fix the billing waived the extra day fee and stuck to my original rate. So who do you think I will rent from on my next trip!!

So to answer your question, I can go on trips and stay in hotels and certainly enjoy it without critiquing it the whole time. I usually end up letting the Manager know what a good job everyone did while I was there.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

Note:
I just thought I should update this thread to let everyone know. I recieved a nice apology today from the Head Pro for his actions and choice of words. It could have been mandated from the corporate office in response to my complaint, but the apology seemed sincere and he really seemed to regret his choice of words.

He offered a return complimentary round which is nice, but I honestly don't know if I will accept it. I didn't complain to get a "free round" I did it for the same reason I posted here, I just found it a very unbelievable action. We will most likely return to the course in the future for the free round or not, becasue it is a fantastic course, and I do believe everyone deserves second chances. Goodness knows my hotel isn't perfect, but we try our best to make up for it when we screw up.

[InTheHole]

I've been involved in several bad situations at hotels and restaurants (never a golf course, thankfully)- the big thing I always look for is how they handle the problem.

Problems happen- they occur when people are mixed together. Unavoidable.

But when the establishment handles it with professionalism and fairness, that's really all you can ask.

[razorbird]

Nice to hear that you got an apology.

Food or not, full services available or not, the Head Pro is a "front man", and should know how to handle these situations with ease, and generally even while having less than a perfect morning!

[Bones01gt]

Food or no food, restaurant or not, when you pay that kind of jack to play a golf course it's okay to expect the staff to go the extra mile to ensure your satisfaction. That smarta** golf pro was totally out of line. One day he'll pop off to the wrong guy and get his "lunch" handed to him in the form of a knuckle sandwich.