I want to get input from both golfers and also from any Head Pros or GM"s on this topic.
This weekend a group of us went for a guys golf weekend to Ocean City, MD. For those in other areas, OC is a secondary golf destination. Not a major one, but it has some very nice courses and is close.
We played 3 high end courses and researched all of them pretty well via their websites. Things that were important were quality of the course, location, reputation, facilities (such as practice range and restaurant) and lastly price.
So as that as a backstory here's what happened at 2 of the 3. Round No. 2 on Saturday with two tee times 2:40 and 2:50. We show up early enough to get a nice full lunch after having played our morning round. We had over an hour once we arrived at the course. We didn't really need any range time since we just played. We asked where the restaurant was and was told it was "closed for a wedding reception they were getting ready for" They pointed us toward the snack bar for a "wrap". the snack bar was nicer than most mind you and we were able to get a hamburger with a little bit of prodding ( he said the wraps were ready to go) man these must be the best wraps in the world
Anyway, I told him we wanted burgers. He said you don't have enough time on the turn for a burger, it'll take 15 minutes to make. I informed him we hadn't teed off yet and had by now 45 minutes until our tee time. He finally agreed, and said to come back in 15 minutes. Ok, we did we ate and all was well. That was a minor annoyance, but certainly nothing to get worked up about.
So we're on the 6th hole around 4:00 and the cart girl comes around (for the first time actually) and says it will be her last trip did we want anything? We were a bit surprised, but grabbed some water and candy bars to have on hand just in case. So here it was in the upper 80's and we've got to go another 3 hours without the cart service. Again, we were a little more annoyed but, life goes on. After the round we wanted to go to the bar and have a beer, but were informed it was closed for a private party. Knowing they were having a reception from the earlier conversations, we weren't shocked and just expected it and moved on to the place we were going to have dinner anyway.
That was all a little disappointing but I wouldn't thought too much of it, if not for what happened Sunday AM. We had an 8:00 and 8:08 tee time and decided to arrive at the course by 7:15 to get something to eat and hit a few balls. Again, we picked the course because of all the above including a restaurant. We got held up a bit in traffic and only arrived 30 minutes before the tee time. Still time for others to hit balls, but I NEEDED something to eat. After checking in I asked the guy at the counter (who happened to be the head pro) where the restaurant/snack shop was. He said "she won't be in until around 10:00" I said, what other options do we have to get something to eat. he said that's it. I told him I found this unacceptable, that we had passed 3 Mickey D's on the way but knowing the course had a restaurant, we passed them by. I asked why it was opening so late, the reply. "Because it's Mothers Day, and she wanted to be off, I could only find someone to come in at 10:00. Besides I wasn't going to pay someone for just a few groups." I said, "Well then you shouldn't be charging full rate, if you're knowingly not going to provide all your services." He seemed to think this was unimaginable, by his response, which was "Did you come here to play golf, or did you come to eat?" I told him a response like that was completely out of line and walked out the door to cool off before I did something or said something that woudl get our group kicked off the course.
I was standing by our cart when the cart guy came up and could see I was a bit miffed and asked what was wrong. I gave him the rundown on what happnened inside and he just shook his head and apologized. He told me that they do that all the time, closing the restaurant early before all groups have finished, and he showed me the tee sheet which was rather full except fo the gap between 8:45 and 10:00. So because we were one of a few early groups we get less than the full service. The cart guy helped out by taking me to the beverage cart and telling me to grab some things. I took some crackers and a couple packages of cookies. I gave him $5 and took them back inside to pay for them. I guess by now the figured he should do something and didn't charge me for the crackers.
It was a shame the day started like that. Becasue the course was an excellent course and I thorougly enjoyed it but the whole attitude of the pro really set me off.
So what do you all think am I wrong in being upset, and for you pro's and GM's how do you balance the line of saving money but still provide equal service to all golfers, I'd really like to know.
I agree 100%. My hate when they just aerated the greens the day before and don't let you know, or give a slight discount. Sandy, bumpy greens and paying full price don't sit well with me.
I can understand your frustration, and especially the sarcastic response you recived from the head pro - pretty unclassy in my opinion.
I have learned that on average, most courses can not be counted on for their restaraunts and bars. There are a few notable exceptions, but on the whole, you can really only judge the golf and service attributed to that main line of business.
When planning a trip, we usually plan to eat before and after the round at a seperate establishment.
It seems all too often the courses with true "restaraunts" market these towards the wedding and event crowds, and not the golfers and the snack bars and bars are usually half-a$$ed by same overworked staff that runs the beer carts.
Benny, Thanks and you bring up a good point. That is why on Day 1 we had planned dinner off site but figured we'd grab a beer in the lounge beforehand. I understand the course is the money maker and everything else is an add on, but my thought is. If you aren't going to do it right, then don't do it at all.
I didn't mention this in the "rant" as I didn't want it to seem like "oh that's where he's coming from" but. I'm a manager of a hotel chain that offers a breakfast buffet. We obviously have hours posted on the buffet. It ends at 10:30 AM on Weekdays and 11:00 on Weekends. However, I tell my chef and food and beverage team, "That buffet needs to look as full at 10:20 every day as it does at 6:00 am when it opens. The guests coming down to eat at the last minute pay the same rate as the guests eating at 7:00, 8:00 and 9:00 and deserve the same quality of freshness, not just a few scraps of bacon and cold eggs left over" They know that I expect there to be some waste becasue of that, or it can be put in the employee break room for an hour or so afterward, but it needs to be full and fresh at all times.
So it's frustrating to me when I don't get the same level of service that I know should be provided. And as you mentioned the attitude was the worst part. Just because he's stuck working on Mothers Day, he thinks we should just be happy they're open.
I'm curious which courses you had this experience at? I am going to Ocean City sometime this summer and will be playing a couple of rounds while the wife and kid go to the beach.
I agree 100%. My hate when they just aerated the greens the day before and don't let you know, or give a slight discount. Sandy, bumpy greens and paying full price don't sit well with me.
+1 that completely changes the course & downgrades the conditions. one of my biggest pet peeves.
I don't think you could be more wrong to be upset. The restaurant is not part of the golf course. At some golf courses, it is not even owned by the course. You certainly should not expect a lower price on the golf course just because the restaurant is not open or operating when you want it. Did you ask if the restaurant was going to be open the next morning?
We are all going to have to lower our expectations. In these economic times, golf course amenities and golf course maintenance are going to suffer as courses try to find a way to stay in business. Courses are laying off personnel in record numbers to try to stay open.
Carolina golfer - i really appreciate your point about the breakfast buffet and treating the late comers the same as the early risers.
recently i stayed in one of the most upscale hotels in Madison wi (not a ritz or anything, but still upscale) and i splurged for one of the suites. with the suites comes a breakfast buffet that is supposed to close at 11am. i strolled in around 1030 to grab a couple items and take it back to the room.. well the food was all picked over and did not look very good at all. basically just leftovers. i figured, well i am cutting it close to closing time so i didn’t get too mad. i figured i would grab a couple cups of coffee and that would hold me over for a bit. well once back to the room (like 2 mins later) i find out the coffee is cold, like ice cold.
nothing gets me more salty then cold coffee. esp when coffee = breakfast
moral of the story, thanks for keeping your buffet up and running until closing and not half a**ing it. it does make a difference!
I'm curious which courses you had this experience at? I am going to Ocean City sometime this summer and will be playing a couple of rounds while the wife and kid go to the beach.
In any event, how was the golf?
The course that charged $130 with the Bev cart leaving early is Baywood Greens in DE. As for the course it is phenominal. Conditions were near perfect, a very nice practice area with a snack bar near by that has excellent wraps . But seriously no problems with course. We all agreed we'd play it again.
Heritage Shores Club in Bridgeview DE. It is about an hour from OC, it was on our way home which is why we selected it. The course was phenominal. It's an Arthur Hills desgin and has water on everyhole. Or as one of our guys said, "Man that Arthur Hills ruined some perfectly good ponds by putting golf holes around them" The rough was long and thick and the winds were pretty much a constant 30 MPH. To give you an idea, on one par 3 that was playing 156 into the wind, every one in our foursome hit driver!!! I'm not kidding you, and I was the only one that went long, I was over the greeen on an embankment that is about 15 feet high behind the green. Two holes later there is a par 3 that plays 195 yards in the opposite direction, we played a 7 iron there .
We all agreed (except for one) that we would all drive back and play the course again in the future.
I guess I need to give props to the 3rd course which didn't get mentioned BECAUSE they did everything right. Bear Trap Dunes has 27 holes. We all loved that course as well, the staff was gracious (well the starter was a bit gruff, but dont' they go to school for that)
All 3 courses were in remarkable shape considering the rain (we had a period of 11 straight days of rain right up to the day before the trip. Only one of them Heritage Shores was cart path only after all that rain. it didn't drain as well as the other two, but it certainly didn't affect the play at all, just kept the carts off the course.
Enjoy your trip. There are several courses we didn't play that we considered. Lighthouse Sound might be the best course in the area, but it is $138. Most of us had played it berfore. If you haven't and you have that in your budget, it's a good one to consider. Rum Pointe is another we considered, as well as Ocean City Golf and Yacht club Newport Course. We only had two days and a couple of our guys had never played Baywood Greens. It is one of the prettiest courses you will see on the East Coast, if you look at their website you will see what I mean. They put more money into their landscaping budget than some courses do in the entire course budget.
Hef, I can respect that. And I suppose I could bring up a couple examples in other industries to try and make my point. But if you read my second post in this thread you'll see part of the reason I'm upset.
Also my company has emphasized to the GM's "Don't CUT BACK on your service, during this recession. Keep it at the same levels and you will see cusomer loyalty not only maintain, but increase when it's all said and done" I agree with this sentiment 100%. The bad economy and less business is in some cases, just an excuse for some companies to not try. and accept failure and blame it on someone other than themselves. Even if you don't agree with me on these points, you can't say the attitude the Pro showed is acceptable.
Thanks UVM. I honestly try and look at our rooms, restaurant and service from the eyes of the guests and not ownership, as they don't always see the same things
A little off topic, but I agree and appreciate your point about full service during posted hours.
I think a bar, restaraunt, retail store, whatever should provide full service at any time that they are open.
If you walk into a shop at 8:30, that closes at 9, then I shouldnt have to have service interupted by the staff vacuming and b.s.ing with each other becuase they are expecting to leave at 9.
When I worked retail, we were always shceduled at least an hour past the posted closing time. That way if someone wanted to be there spending money after closing time, it was no imposition.
If you want to leave at 9, then close at 8. Just my opinion. Sorry for the rant
Just wondering, did the course advertise that they have breakfast, or did you inquire about it, or did you assume that they had it? I understand that your gripe was with the pros attitude but would you have been upset if their hours were 11 am -whenever and no breakfast was offered?
In any event, now you know to keep a granola bar or 2 in your bag for times like that.
Longballs, when I called they said they had a restaurant that opened at 11:00 but they also had a grill by the proshop that opened when the pro shop did at 7:00. I didn't specify which day, but didn't think I would have to. You're right the attitude was the biggest thing. And I usually don't rely on the course to have breakfast, I'll either eat at home or do the fast food drive through thing, but in this one case I took a chance and obviously I was wrong. In the future, I'll just go with my usual assumption, that they won't have any thing to eat at the course.
For the record when we were finished I was starved and noticed the grill was open. There was a very pleasant sweet young woman in there named Rosie who couldn't have been more nice, and I thanked her for being there on Mothers Day and wished her a happy MD. After all it wasn't her decision to not be there early, she was the one that came in for the regular person.
Benny, I agree with you as well. I once had a staff member starting to vacum the restaurant with about 10 minutes to go and people still eating. I went over and very nicely told her I appreciated her dedication to during her job but to wait until about 11:00 or everyone was gone. I then made sure her manager knew to not have her or anyone do that in the future.
I once worked retail, and we couldn't begin clean up until after closing. We did sometimes start taking a club count about 15 minutes before closing, but only if there was more than one of us to help any customer who were still in the store.
Carolina Golfer 2, on May 11 2009, 03:51 PM, said:
Benny, Thanks and you bring up a good point. That is why on Day 1 we had planned dinner off site but figured we'd grab a beer in the lounge beforehand. I understand the course is the money maker and everything else is an add on, but my thought is. If you aren't going to do it right, then don't do it at all.
I didn't mention this in the "rant" as I didn't want it to seem like "oh that's where he's coming from" but. I'm a manager of a hotel chain that offers a breakfast buffet. We obviously have hours posted on the buffet. It ends at 10:30 AM on Weekdays and 11:00 on Weekends. However, I tell my chef and food and beverage team, "That buffet needs to look as full at 10:20 every day as it does at 6:00 am when it opens. The guests coming down to eat at the last minute pay the same rate as the guests eating at 7:00, 8:00 and 9:00 and deserve the same quality of freshness, not just a few scraps of bacon and cold eggs left over" They know that I expect there to be some waste becasue of that, or it can be put in the employee break room for an hour or so afterward, but it needs to be full and fresh at all times.
So it's frustrating to me when I don't get the same level of service that I know should be provided. And as you mentioned the attitude was the worst part. Just because he's stuck working on Mothers Day, he thinks we should just be happy they're open.
And this is why your hotel is recommended by your guests to others and probably runs at full occupancy- the management cares! Clearly at the golf course you visited the management doesn't care.
I take slight issue with the poster that said the course was most important- my guess is that that food and beverage operation is a key factor in the profitability of any course. I will not go back to a place that has bad service, no matter how good the place is otherwise. Tip well for good service and compliment the management.
Just read your second post and I understand why you feel the way you do. Unfortunately, I hope you can also understand that it is not the same thing. I hope I get to stay in your hotel cause it sounds like you do a great job! However, this is not the same thing. In your case, the buffet is part of the hotel rate. AT the golf course, the restaurant was not part of the green fee nor is it technically part of the golf course experience, so it should not effect the price you paid for golf. However, there is no doubt that the pro should have been more empathetic towards your complaint. How far away was the nearest MCD's? If I were the pro, I might have offered to send a cart kid down to pick up sandwiches for you and bring them out. In a similar situation, I have been known to ask a cart kid to go buy my breakfast and bring it to me on the course for a healthy tip. But I don't believe in missing many meals, if you know what I mean.
First of all, I agree with you 100% in principle. If you are charging full price, EVERYTHING should be open. The range, the cart girl, the snackbar, the restaurant.
With respect to the lunch/dinner expectations, I think you are 100% correct.
Nevertheless, I have to say you were probably overly optomistic with respect to breakfast. In my experience, on-course restaurants generally don't open for breakfast. Unless it is a course I regularly play and KNOW is open, I assume they will be closed. The earlier I play (and I play early), the more likely it will be "closed" for whatever reason.
Is it right? No. But it is what I see when I am out there.
I think I would have been ticked off as well.....I had a pretty similiar situation happen to me a month ago at Bandon Dunes. I feel like if I'm going to be charged for a "complete golfing experiance" I should be treated like a guest rather than a number.
Good for you for saying something and posting it on this site!!!!!!!!!!!!
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I don't consider a restaurant part of my "full golfing experience". While the Pro might have been a little rude, I happen to agree that you're there to golf. A restaurant is clearly a nice convenience, but to rely on it isn't a great idea.
Besides, I can count on one hand the number of courses I've gone to in the past 10 years where the employees don't act like I'm a complete and utter inconvenience. From the pro shop grumps, to the grouchy starters, to the 80-year old rangers who are frustrated about their incontinence ... I fully expect to be treated like sh*t everywhere I go now.
I agree that if your paying full rate you should get full service. There are alot of times I've been to a course that your lucky to see the beverage cart once during the round and they drive by without stopping to see if you want anything. While some people noted that the Bar/Restaurant may not be owned by the course/course management, it still is something that can add to or detract from your enjoyment of the entire course, and can impact your decision to play there again.
If you worked in the golf business you'd probably better understand why the pro was so short with you.
You have long hours, same thing everyday, and naturally like any business when you directly serve the customer, there's bound to be things that get on your nerves.
As I was reading your post, I was thinking "This guy wants to golf, but wants all the extra stuff too. I thought a golf course is a place where you play golf, not eat a full course meal and someone waiting on every hand and foot for you." Then you wrote what the pro said, and I just smiled to myself.
Its a GOLF course, not a dining experience. RARELY do golf course restaurants cook up breakfast, only one I've been to was on Long Island. Usually golf courses assume that people would eat when they wake up before coming to the GOLF course. Therefore, there really is no money to be made in breakfast at a course.
Thats just my 2 cents. But I'm easy to please, because when I go to a golf course the only thing I'm looking for is a place to play golf
I think you're dead-right about your expectations. The bar, restaurant, cart girl, starter- these are the things that JUSTIFY the full-buck price of a premium course. I can go play a muni for $30 if "all I want is golf". (And frankly, even then they'll have some extras.)
I recently played a premo-course in the Denver area- ate lunch there mid-morning before tee-time, but they were still serving gorgeous omlettes and other full-service breakfast foods. Phone ahead from #6 and pick up whatever you want on the turn from the bar, grille or restaurant the back nine. Premium price = premium amenities.
I think you're dead-right about your expectations. The bar, restaurant, cart girl, starter- these are the things that JUSTIFY the full-buck price of a premium course. I can go play a muni for $30 if "all I want is golf". (And frankly, even then they'll have some extras.)
I recently played a premo-course in the Denver area- ate lunch there mid-morning before tee-time, but they were still serving gorgeous omlettes and other full-service breakfast foods. Phone ahead from #6 and pick up whatever you want on the turn from the bar, grille or restaurant the back nine. Premium price = premium amenities.
No amenities = cheapo price.
See, I don't believe in that. I believe you pay a premium for the quality of GOLF you're going to get. By quality I mean design, condition, and challenge. If including all the extras justifies the "full-buck price" then those things would be given to you FOR FREE, not as an upcharge.
If a course wants to call itself a "golfing experiance" or some other sappy catch phrase, then they better have all the extras.
I agree, golf is the bottom line for me, but if I have to shell out my hard earned cash to be treated like a chump by some idiot golf pro I'll take my business elsewhere..
I think you're dead-right about your expectations. The bar, restaurant, cart girl, starter- these are the things that JUSTIFY the full-buck price of a premium course. I can go play a muni for $30 if "all I want is golf". (And frankly, even then they'll have some extras.)
I recently played a premo-course in the Denver area- ate lunch there mid-morning before tee-time, but they were still serving gorgeous omlettes and other full-service breakfast foods. Phone ahead from #6 and pick up whatever you want on the turn from the bar, grille or restaurant the back nine. Premium price = premium amenities.
No amenities = cheapo price.
See, I don't believe in that. I believe you pay a premium for the quality of GOLF you're going to get. By quality I mean design, condition, and challenge. If including all the extras justifies the "full-buck price" then those things would be given to you FOR FREE, not as an upcharge.
I have to disagree. When I show up at Average Municipal, I expect to be stuck paying a green fee + a cart fee (usually a beat up gas cart). Locker Room - not. Restaurant - maybe a bar/grill.
When I show up at a premium resort/golf course, I expect a little more.
1. If the green fee includes a cart, I expect a clean, reasonably new electric cart. If I am paying over $200 per round, I begin to expect GPS in the cart.
2. I expect there to be a reasonably decent locker room (Kapalua's was the bomb).
3. I expect a cart girl running around and/or a snack shack out on the course.
4. I expect a range with reasonably new golf balls and a nice putting green.
If you worked in the golf business you'd probably better understand why the pro was so short with you.
You have long hours, same thing everyday, and naturally like any business when you directly serve the customer, there's bound to be things that get on your nerves.
As I was reading your post, I was thinking "This guy wants to golf, but wants all the extra stuff too. I thought a golf course is a place where you play golf, not eat a full course meal and someone waiting on every hand and foot for you." Then you wrote what the pro said, and I just smiled to myself.
Its a GOLF course, not a dining experience. RARELY do golf course restaurants cook up breakfast, only one I've been to was on Long Island. Usually golf courses assume that people would eat when they wake up before coming to the GOLF course. Therefore, there really is no money to be made in breakfast at a course.
Thats just my 2 cents. But I'm easy to please, because when I go to a golf course the only thing I'm looking for is a place to play golf
i don't agree with you at all.
"if you were in the golf business...."
should this apply to all types of businesses?
"if you were in the restaurant business... you'd understand why someone spit on your food"
NO... it's not acceptable. and people like you are the reason these places continue to do what they do.
if THIS particular course offers breakfast, then yes he should expect to be able to eat breakfast there.
the course should not 'assume' he has eaten breakfast already.
"it's a golf course, not a dining experience"
then they should not charge $100+ and not adverstise dining.
If you worked in the golf business you'd probably better understand why the pro was so short with you.
You have long hours, same thing everyday, and naturally like any business when you directly serve the customer, there's bound to be things that get on your nerves.
As I was reading your post, I was thinking "This guy wants to golf, but wants all the extra stuff too. I thought a golf course is a place where you play golf, not eat a full course meal and someone waiting on every hand and foot for you." Then you wrote what the pro said, and I just smiled to myself.
Its a GOLF course, not a dining experience. RARELY do golf course restaurants cook up breakfast, only one I've been to was on Long Island. Usually golf courses assume that people would eat when they wake up before coming to the GOLF course. Therefore, there really is no money to be made in breakfast at a course.
Thats just my 2 cents. But I'm easy to please, because when I go to a golf course the only thing I'm looking for is a place to play golf
i don't agree with you at all.
"if you were in the golf business...."
should this apply to all types of businesses?
"if you were in the restaurant business... you'd understand why someone spit on your food"
NO... it's not acceptable. and people like you are the reason these places continue to do what they do.
if THIS particular course offers breakfast, then yes he should expect to be able to eat breakfast there.
the course should not 'assume' he has eaten breakfast already.
"it's a golf course, not a dining experience"
then they should not charge $100+ and not adverstise dining.
"should this apply to all types of businesses?"
Yes, it should. Its a way to get people to understand what the situation is like from another person's shoes. I still work at a course, but that doesn't mean I am not a customer at other courses. I'm on both sides of the counter multiple times a week.
"the course should not 'assume' he has eaten breakfast already."
The customer should not 'assume' that the restaurant is going to be open, in the same way I cannot 'assume' I can take a foursome to Bethpage on a Saturday morning and walk on. Call ahead, nothing is a guarantee in life.
"if you were in the restaurant business... you'd understand why someone spit on your food
NO... it's not acceptable. and people like you are the reason these places continue to do what they do"
Your correlation is invalid, not very good.
You say this like this is how I treat customers. I'm a starter/ranger. I'm 20 years old and do this during the summer. Need I go back in this thread and point out all the negative comments made towards starters/rangers? I try and break that mold by cracking jokes and having a SMILE on my face when golfers come to my starter shack, not some deathly, chip-on-my-shoulder-don't-talk-to-me-look. Lots of golfers are surprised that a young guy is doing an old man's job, and its refreshing to them.
Here's the deal, and I'll stand by my statements: Being a golf pro is not all its cracked out to be. You're usually talking 12 hour days 6 days a week. If you get someone that comes into the pro shop at 7:00AM demanding an omlet, that is the least of your worries. You don't want to/CAN'T deal with that sort of customer. How about I walk into someone's accounting office and ask them to balance out my statements from every month last year in the middle of tax season? Guess what, its not going to happen because they've got bigger fish to fry at that time.
So they advertised for the restaurant? Big deal. Every summer amuesment parks advertise their new roller coasters/thrill rides. Half the time I go to these parks to ride these rides they're broken down.
Frustrating. I'll say it again, running golf course operations isn't an easy thing to do. Lots of golfers take that for granted. You guys here just seem to have many high demands. Do your research, and call ahead.
"should this apply to all types of businesses?"
Yes, it should. Its a way to get people to understand what the situation is like from another person's shoes. I still work at a course, but that doesn't mean I am not a customer at other courses. I'm on both sides of the counter multiple times a week.
then you clearly have never owned/operated a business. i owned and operated a pizzeria for a few years and know first hand that you must cater to the customer. being rude is never an option, that is if you want to stay in business.
"the course should not 'assume' he has eaten breakfast already."
The customer should not 'assume' that the restaurant is going to be open, in the same way I cannot 'assume' I can take a foursome to Bethpage on a Saturday morning and walk on. Call ahead, nothing is a guarantee in life.
wrong. the customer definately should assume the restaurant will be open. any reputable restaurant will be open during their regular hours. it's bad business not to be.
should i call mcdonalds before i leave my house to be sure they're open... how about walmart. NO....
"if you were in the restaurant business... you'd understand why someone spit on your food
NO... it's not acceptable. and people like you are the reason these places continue to do what they do"
Your correlation is invalid, not very good.
it's actually very good.
You say this like this is how I treat customers. I'm a starter/ranger. I'm 20 years old and do this during the summer. Need I go back in this thread and point out all the negative comments made towards starters/rangers? I try and break that mold by cracking jokes and having a SMILE on my face when golfers come to my starter shack, not some deathly, chip-on-my-shoulder-don't-talk-to-me-look. Lots of golfers are surprised that a young guy is doing an old man's job, and its refreshing to them.
Here's the deal, and I'll stand by my statements: Being a golf pro is not all its cracked out to be. You're usually talking 12 hour days 6 days a week. If you get someone that comes into the pro shop at 7:00AM demanding an omlet, that is the least of your worries. You don't want to/CAN'T deal with that sort of customer. How about I walk into someone's accounting office and ask them to balance out my statements from every month last year in the middle of tax season? Guess what, its not going to happen because they've got bigger fish to fry at that time.
cry me a river. that golf pro CHOSE his profession. i don't feel sorry for what he has to do with his job. he's got it easy compared to a lot/most other people.
So they advertised for the restaurant? Big deal. Every summer amuesment parks advertise their new roller coasters/thrill rides. Half the time I go to these parks to ride these rides they're broken down.
half the time? you must go to some pretty horrible parks. however, if they have a ride shut down you can bet they'll have many more rides open... did this course have another restaurant open since this one was closed? NOPE. but hey... atleast the park is open...
Frustrating. I'll say it again, running golf course operations isn't an easy thing to do. Lots of golfers take that for granted. You guys here just seem to have many high demands. Do your research, and call ahead.
pretty much all businesses are stressful and are difficult to operate. does this mean they should slack? definately not. again, don't make excuses for them. it's not helping anything or proving any point.
I appreciate customer service as much as anybody, and I want to agree w/ you, but my gut is saying that I probably wouldnt have been as angry as yours. If me and my crew go to a higher end place, we'll typically make some calls to know what the situation is at the course (food, conditions, pace, etc...) or just be prepared before getting there.
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Frustrating. I'll say it again, running golf course operations isn't an easy thing to do. Lots of golfers take that for granted. You guys here just seem to have many high demands. Do your research, and call ahead.
I fall in line with this thinking a little moreso...
"should this apply to all types of businesses?"
Yes, it should. Its a way to get people to understand what the situation is like from another person's shoes. I still work at a course, but that doesn't mean I am not a customer at other courses. I'm on both sides of the counter multiple times a week.
then you clearly have never owned/operated a business. i owned and operated a pizzeria for a few years and know first hand that you must cater to the customer. being rude is never an option, that is if you want to stay in business.
Being rude to one customer will not make or break your business, unless they post on a forum about their bad experience, gotcha. But you no longer own that pizzaria? Why did it go out of business?
"the course should not 'assume' he has eaten breakfast already."
The customer should not 'assume' that the restaurant is going to be open, in the same way I cannot 'assume' I can take a foursome to Bethpage on a Saturday morning and walk on. Call ahead, nothing is a guarantee in life.
wrong. the customer definately should assume the restaurant will be open. any reputable restaurant will be open during their regular hours. it's bad business not to be.
should i call mcdonalds before i leave my house to be sure they're open... how about walmart. NO....
Still, should I just show up at a course on a Saturday expecting to play because they're "Open" NO. You're comparing international chains to a single site business. Arguement invalid
"if you were in the restaurant business... you'd understand why someone spit on your food
NO... it's not acceptable. and people like you are the reason these places continue to do what they do"
Your correlation is invalid, not very good.
it's actually very good.
The fact that you didn't say why tells me you don't believe so. Nobody spat in anyone's food or yelled in anyone's backswing. Someone was perceived as being rude, its not something to cry over. Burden of proof is on the plaintiff, please state your case
You say this like this is how I treat customers. I'm a starter/ranger. I'm 20 years old and do this during the summer. Need I go back in this thread and point out all the negative comments made towards starters/rangers? I try and break that mold by cracking jokes and having a SMILE on my face when golfers come to my starter shack, not some deathly, chip-on-my-shoulder-don't-talk-to-me-look. Lots of golfers are surprised that a young guy is doing an old man's job, and its refreshing to them.
Here's the deal, and I'll stand by my statements: Being a golf pro is not all its cracked out to be. You're usually talking 12 hour days 6 days a week. If you get someone that comes into the pro shop at 7:00AM demanding an omlet, that is the least of your worries. You don't want to/CAN'T deal with that sort of customer. How about I walk into someone's accounting office and ask them to balance out my statements from every month last year in the middle of tax season? Guess what, its not going to happen because they've got bigger fish to fry at that time.
cry me a river. that golf pro CHOSE his profession. i don't feel sorry for what he has to do with his job. he's got it easy compared to a lot/most other people.
Cry me a river, those who have it worse than him CHOSE their professions
So they advertised for the restaurant? Big deal. Every summer amuesment parks advertise their new roller coasters/thrill rides. Half the time I go to these parks to ride these rides they're broken down.
half the time? you must go to some pretty horrible parks. however, if they have a ride shut down you can bet they'll have many more rides open... did this course have another restaurant open since this one was closed? NOPE. but hey... atleast the park is open...
Again, you're paying for golf, not a breakfast. Golf course was open, restaurant was not. I'm sure he went there primarily to golf and not primarily to eat.
Frustrating. I'll say it again, running golf course operations isn't an easy thing to do. Lots of golfers take that for granted. You guys here just seem to have many high demands. Do your research, and call ahead.
pretty much all businesses are stressful and are difficult to operate. does this mean they should slack? definately not. again, don't make excuses for them. it's not helping anything or proving any point.
I'm not making excuses for them, I'm just trying to be the devils advocate here. I started this journey to try and see if I could put everyone in their shoes in this bad economy and make some sense out of this (sorry, but maintaining a high level of service in an industry that suffers in bad economic times isn't an option). I've come this far, why quit?
And now I'm done. Last exam tomorrow and then I can finally get back to practicing everyday and not be cooped up inside on the internet. Have a good one.
this is exactly why I don't bother eating at a course. Never know if they will even have food, plus I can get better food somewhere else on my to the course or on the way home.
I don't blame you for being a little annoyed. If they say they have a restaurant and advertise it as being open certain hours, it should be. Obviously, things happen, but 'not wanting to open for a few groups' is not a good excuse. They should advertise the restaurant as being 'open when we feel like it."
"should this apply to all types of businesses?"
Yes, it should. Its a way to get people to understand what the situation is like from another person's shoes. I still work at a course, but that doesn't mean I am not a customer at other courses. I'm on both sides of the counter multiple times a week.
then you clearly have never owned/operated a business. i owned and operated a pizzeria for a few years and know first hand that you must cater to the customer. being rude is never an option, that is if you want to stay in business.
Being rude to one customer will not make or break your business, unless they post on a forum about their bad experience, gotcha. But you no longer own that pizzaria? Why did it go out of business?
"the course should not 'assume' he has eaten breakfast already."
The customer should not 'assume' that the restaurant is going to be open, in the same way I cannot 'assume' I can take a foursome to Bethpage on a Saturday morning and walk on. Call ahead, nothing is a guarantee in life.
wrong. the customer definately should assume the restaurant will be open. any reputable restaurant will be open during their regular hours. it's bad business not to be.
should i call mcdonalds before i leave my house to be sure they're open... how about walmart. NO....
Still, should I just show up at a course on a Saturday expecting to play because they're "Open" NO. You're comparing international chains to a single site business. Arguement invalid
"if you were in the restaurant business... you'd understand why someone spit on your food
NO... it's not acceptable. and people like you are the reason these places continue to do what they do"
Your correlation is invalid, not very good.
it's actually very good.
The fact that you didn't say why tells me you don't believe so. Nobody spat in anyone's food or yelled in anyone's backswing. Someone was perceived as being rude, its not something to cry over. Burden of proof is on the plaintiff, please state your case
You say this like this is how I treat customers. I'm a starter/ranger. I'm 20 years old and do this during the summer. Need I go back in this thread and point out all the negative comments made towards starters/rangers? I try and break that mold by cracking jokes and having a SMILE on my face when golfers come to my starter shack, not some deathly, chip-on-my-shoulder-don't-talk-to-me-look. Lots of golfers are surprised that a young guy is doing an old man's job, and its refreshing to them.
Here's the deal, and I'll stand by my statements: Being a golf pro is not all its cracked out to be. You're usually talking 12 hour days 6 days a week. If you get someone that comes into the pro shop at 7:00AM demanding an omlet, that is the least of your worries. You don't want to/CAN'T deal with that sort of customer. How about I walk into someone's accounting office and ask them to balance out my statements from every month last year in the middle of tax season? Guess what, its not going to happen because they've got bigger fish to fry at that time.
cry me a river. that golf pro CHOSE his profession. i don't feel sorry for what he has to do with his job. he's got it easy compared to a lot/most other people.
Cry me a river, those who have it worse than him CHOSE their professions
So they advertised for the restaurant? Big deal. Every summer amuesment parks advertise their new roller coasters/thrill rides. Half the time I go to these parks to ride these rides they're broken down.
half the time? you must go to some pretty horrible parks. however, if they have a ride shut down you can bet they'll have many more rides open... did this course have another restaurant open since this one was closed? NOPE. but hey... atleast the park is open...
Again, you're paying for golf, not a breakfast. Golf course was open, restaurant was not. I'm sure he went there primarily to golf and not primarily to eat.
Frustrating. I'll say it again, running golf course operations isn't an easy thing to do. Lots of golfers take that for granted. You guys here just seem to have many high demands. Do your research, and call ahead.
pretty much all businesses are stressful and are difficult to operate. does this mean they should slack? definately not. again, don't make excuses for them. it's not helping anything or proving any point.
I'm not making excuses for them, I'm just trying to be the devils advocate here. I started this journey to try and see if I could put everyone in their shoes in this bad economy and make some sense out of this (sorry, but maintaining a high level of service in an industry that suffers in bad economic times isn't an option). I've come this far, why quit?
"should this apply to all types of businesses?"
Yes, it should. Its a way to get people to understand what the situation is like from another person's shoes. I still work at a course, but that doesn't mean I am not a customer at other courses. I'm on both sides of the counter multiple times a week.
then you clearly have never owned/operated a business. i owned and operated a pizzeria for a few years and know first hand that you must cater to the customer. being rude is never an option, that is if you want to stay in business.
Being rude to one customer will not make or break your business, unless they post on a forum about their bad experience, gotcha. But you no longer own that pizzaria? Why did it go out of business?
"the course should not 'assume' he has eaten breakfast already."
The customer should not 'assume' that the restaurant is going to be open, in the same way I cannot 'assume' I can take a foursome to Bethpage on a Saturday morning and walk on. Call ahead, nothing is a guarantee in life.
wrong. the customer definately should assume the restaurant will be open. any reputable restaurant will be open during their regular hours. it's bad business not to be.
should i call mcdonalds before i leave my house to be sure they're open... how about walmart. NO....
Still, should I just show up at a course on a Saturday expecting to play because they're "Open" NO. You're comparing international chains to a single site business. Arguement invalid
"if you were in the restaurant business... you'd understand why someone spit on your food
NO... it's not acceptable. and people like you are the reason these places continue to do what they do"
Your correlation is invalid, not very good.
it's actually very good.
The fact that you didn't say why tells me you don't believe so. Nobody spat in anyone's food or yelled in anyone's backswing. Someone was perceived as being rude, its not something to cry over. Burden of proof is on the plaintiff, please state your case
You say this like this is how I treat customers. I'm a starter/ranger. I'm 20 years old and do this during the summer. Need I go back in this thread and point out all the negative comments made towards starters/rangers? I try and break that mold by cracking jokes and having a SMILE on my face when golfers come to my starter shack, not some deathly, chip-on-my-shoulder-don't-talk-to-me-look. Lots of golfers are surprised that a young guy is doing an old man's job, and its refreshing to them.
Here's the deal, and I'll stand by my statements: Being a golf pro is not all its cracked out to be. You're usually talking 12 hour days 6 days a week. If you get someone that comes into the pro shop at 7:00AM demanding an omlet, that is the least of your worries. You don't want to/CAN'T deal with that sort of customer. How about I walk into someone's accounting office and ask them to balance out my statements from every month last year in the middle of tax season? Guess what, its not going to happen because they've got bigger fish to fry at that time.
cry me a river. that golf pro CHOSE his profession. i don't feel sorry for what he has to do with his job. he's got it easy compared to a lot/most other people.
Cry me a river, those who have it worse than him CHOSE their professions
So they advertised for the restaurant? Big deal. Every summer amuesment parks advertise their new roller coasters/thrill rides. Half the time I go to these parks to ride these rides they're broken down.
half the time? you must go to some pretty horrible parks. however, if they have a ride shut down you can bet they'll have many more rides open... did this course have another restaurant open since this one was closed? NOPE. but hey... atleast the park is open...
Again, you're paying for golf, not a breakfast. Golf course was open, restaurant was not. I'm sure he went there primarily to golf and not primarily to eat.
Frustrating. I'll say it again, running golf course operations isn't an easy thing to do. Lots of golfers take that for granted. You guys here just seem to have many high demands. Do your research, and call ahead.
pretty much all businesses are stressful and are difficult to operate. does this mean they should slack? definately not. again, don't make excuses for them. it's not helping anything or proving any point.
I'm not making excuses for them, I'm just trying to be the devils advocate here. I started this journey to try and see if I could put everyone in their shoes in this bad economy and make some sense out of this (sorry, but maintaining a high level of service in an industry that suffers in bad economic times isn't an option). I've come this far, why quit?
And now I'm done. Last exam tomorrow and then I can finally get back to practicing everyday and not be cooped up inside on the internet. Have a good one.
You are 20 years old and clearly have a LOT to learn - especially if you ever plan to run any kind of business. I am shocked at some of the things you said. Probably shouldn't be but am anyhow!
If you worked in the golf business you'd probably better understand why the pro was so short with you.
You have long hours, same thing everyday, and naturally like any business when you directly serve the customer, there's bound to be things that get on your nerves.
As I was reading your post, I was thinking "This guy wants to golf, but wants all the extra stuff too. I thought a golf course is a place where you play golf, not eat a full course meal and someone waiting on every hand and foot for you." Then you wrote what the pro said, and I just smiled to myself.
Its a GOLF course, not a dining experience. RARELY do golf course restaurants cook up breakfast, only one I've been to was on Long Island. Usually golf courses assume that people would eat when they wake up before coming to the GOLF course. Therefore, there really is no money to be made in breakfast at a course.
Thats just my 2 cents. But I'm easy to please, because when I go to a golf course the only thing I'm looking for is a place to play golf
If somebody does not enjoy getting up and going to their "job" they should seriously think about a Carrer change. Golf is a service business and it all starts with the Head pro as their attitude will filter down to the staff.
Yeah, the golf business can be full of challenges and "things that get on your nerves" but the green fee is what pays the head pro's salary as well as the food and beverage service. Why should a paying customer put up with bad attitude from the head pro?
I think the OP has every right to upset with the attitude of the head pro and i probably would have taken it a step further by asking to speak with his boss and if the boss wasn't there i would have asked for his contact info and followed up with them.
The head pro simply handled the situation all wrong imo. What if the OP group told 2 golf buddies or a golf board about poor service/attitude at this course and that they would not go back???
With this economy the best type of advetising/repeat business is word of mouth.
Well, I can relate to being upset about poor service as I am, a self admitted golf course snob!...and I really dont know why NOR do I or should I deserve to be.
With the days of GOLFNOW, Golfsigma, golfhub etc....tee times are getting outrageously inexpensive compared to a few years ago. For me, I know that if I book my time on any of these services, especially one of their "specials", then I head to the course with NO expectations of service whatsoever....I expect to get the stink eye at the front desk....no bag service...the worst cart of the bunch and no food other than a snickers bar of any kind...I am almost to the point of expecting the cart girl to just drive by me with her middle finger up sneering at me.
But, if I am ponying up full price or booking a business tee time and paying for the whole group(s)....then I come to expect a near country club experience...and rarely if ever find it. I blame the economy...but as I say that....even when times were awesome middle to lower high end golf courses had poor customer service..its a factor of trying to stay afloat with the minimum...trimming hours of some and overworking others equals raw nerves for everyone. Golf Pro's chose their profession...but after looking at their measly paychecks after a 60 hour week will make anyone snippy.
If your looking for good service while playing golf, it is time to join a Country Club with good reciprocals and just try and hope for the best
Well most golfers go to a golf course to play golf....if the course was in great shape and didn't have a clubhouse I'd still be happy to play.
If Pebble Beach didn't have a locker room, caddies, and I had to pay for my round by walking into a trailer instead of a clubhouse I'd still be happy to play.
Now I completely understand the OP's point of view, and he is justified with being miffed with the attitude of the pro (although reading the comment the pro made is pretty darn funny from an outside perspective), but being upset that the restaurant wasn't open, or not getting a discount on the GOLF course because of it seems a bit much to me.
I mean if I had the chance to play Augusta and they told me I couldn't step into the clubhouse, and had to go straight from my car to the first tee....then back to my car immediately after I holed out on 18, I'd be on the first jet out to play.
However everybody does have a different expectation or reason to play golf. I play golf to enjoy the golf course, and although I'm a member of a private club, I joined because I like the course, the shape it's in, the speed of play, etc. I didn't join because I like how the chef cooks.
If you worked in the golf business you'd probably better understand why the pro was so short with you.
You have long hours, same thing everyday, and naturally like any business when you directly serve the customer, there's bound to be things that get on your nerves.
As I was reading your post, I was thinking "This guy wants to golf, but wants all the extra stuff too. I thought a golf course is a place where you play golf, not eat a full course meal and someone waiting on every hand and foot for you." Then you wrote what the pro said, and I just smiled to myself.
Its a GOLF course, not a dining experience. RARELY do golf course restaurants cook up breakfast, only one I've been to was on Long Island. Usually golf courses assume that people would eat when they wake up before coming to the GOLF course. Therefore, there really is no money to be made in breakfast at a course.
Thats just my 2 cents. But I'm easy to please, because when I go to a golf course the only thing I'm looking for is a place to play golf
Stallion while I understand your points, if you had read my second post, you will see why I don't buy the excuse of the pro. Trust me my staff gets dumped on all the time at the end of the day for things that aren't there fault. The plane was late, the travel agent didn't request non smoking rooms, the rental car agency screwed up their reservation...etc etc. But I stress to them EVERY SINGLE day, they can't take it personal, in fact they need to do something above and beyond to help that guest feel better about their day. Whether it's a room upgrade if possible, a complimentary item from our snack shop, whatever. I do get, it what I dont' get is golf course employees who think that the people paying their saleries are a pain in the A. I get it golfers can be unreasonable, but you have to deal with it and not complain about it.
In reading several posts here, i've come to realize while in theory I may have been right to be disappoiinted, in practical terms I should not have expected the course to have something to eat. However, I still have a hard time thinking they couldn't have put out at least a a dozen or two muffins from Otis Spunkmeyer or something like that.
From reading some of your previous post, I know you're a pretty decent player and love the game alot, but I also think you're a bit young (at least compared to some of old farts) and still have a bit to learn about customer service. Don't take that as an insult, but as an opportunity for personal growth.
The pro handled the situation in a completely unacceptable fashion.
Whether the OP was or was not justified in his complaint about the restaurant not being open is NOT the point. He took a minor complaint (no breakfast) and escalated it into a pissed off customer by acting like a jerk. "I wasn't going to pay someone for just a few groups." "Did you come here to play golf or to eat?"
The pro should have defused the situation by saying "I'm sorry, we've had a problem with staffing today and our grill won't be open until 11AM, but in the interim, grab some snacks from the cart, on the house. I know it's not a substitute for a whole meal, but it's my fault and I do apologize. I hope you enjoy the course, it's really in great shape."
See, now you'll likely have a happy customer who says "hmm, well, they screwed up but people do make mistakes and he did what he could within reason to get me something to eat. Cool." Instead, the pro decided to pop off and be a wise guy, which is NEVER the acceptable option.
This entire topic boils down to one thing.... personal responsibility.
That is a two sided creature.
A person is personally responsible for their own enjoyment and participation in anything. You should be aware of whatever you are getting in to. Don't expect to be treated like royalty everywhere. I am fully prepared for a bad attitude at the post office or DMV or airport security. I also know that I'm not going to get a gourmet meal for the $6 I have to shell out for a hot-dog at a ball game.
Research the course, a restaraunt, read reviews, talk to others, call the business and find out what they offer.
However.....
The real key to all of this is that simply.... It IS their job.
It IS the pro's job to ensure that the guests at the course enjoy a full experience.
It IS the starters job to be cheerful and let everyone know the local rules and offer a few tips
It IS the job of everyone from the guy collecting the range balls, to the beer-cart girl, to the guy at the bag drop, to the facility manager, to ensure that every person who walks through that door is treated like family.
This means that if he complained that the snack bar wasn't open, than the pro should have apologized and walked over to the bar and offered him any of the prepared foods (snacks, candy, anything) that was already available.
Just because a position involves a 12 hour day, 6 days a week doesnt mean I should have to suffer your poor attitude. Life is too short to be working a job you hate. People with bad attitudes are so costly to a business, it can't be measured.
I dont expect anythign for free, or feel that anyone should have to take abuse from anyone else.
But by God, are you there to serve the customers and appeciate their time take their hard earned money, or are you just wasting everyone's time by taking up space and collecting a pay check?
It's also my responsibility to never give someone who treated me poorly anymore of my money or time.
Sorry for the rant, but this just seems to be a problem most anywhere you go these days.
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