[Simp]

I, for one, would like Augusta to be played as it was intended to be played: wide fairways and no rough to speak of. The way the tournament committee sets up the course now makes it seem like just another tour stop in some ways. Leave the yardage as it is now though. That's needed. Who else would like to see the Augusta of old emerge once more?

[donzo]

Attended the Master's in 2005. Was suprised at the length of the rough... it's really short compared to the US open or PGA. I considered it almost non-existent... you don't get as good a lie as the fairway but your ball isn't invisible when your standing over it either.

[mcputter]

I'd like to see it return to when there were more birdie and eagle opportunities, I think it was a more unique major (less like a U.S. Open) and a more exciting tournament. I hear they've pulled back the tree line on #11 and a couple of other minor changes. I'd love to see them eliminate the 'second cut' and restore the options players used to have.

[victor2000]

I don't mind the rough as much as all of the trees that they planted. All of the trees they added on 11? Ridiculous! The trees on 15 and 17? Ridiculous! Adding all of the trees on 13? Ridiculous.

Keep the length - although there are certain spots, like 7, where it seems they added length just to add it. The golf course is too much of a grind right now.

[Asleep]

donzo, on Mar 24 2009, 07:29 PM, said:

Attended the Master's in 2005. Was suprised at the length of the rough... it's really short compared to the US open or PGA. I considered it almost non-existent... you don't get as good a lie as the fairway but your ball isn't invisible when your standing over it either.

Me, too. Rough isn't much of an issue there, imo.

[muxi87]

I've been every year since the inception of the rough...also went a few times before the rough...believe me, it's not "rough". The "rough" at Augusta wasn't implemented to be a "hazard" like the rough at an Open--it was cut in to make it tougher to control the spin of the ball (creating semi-flyers and less spin). It was more of a defense mechanism for the course as everyone was hitting wedges into greens...the "rough" made it harder to control the spin with the wedges. I, for one, think the "rough" isn't near as bad of an idea as the added length or, as mentioned above, the addition of TONS of trees on the course--and I agree that the ones on 11 are the worst decision the course committee has ever made.

[hoganfan924]

I would love to see them set the course up just as it was in the 1950's (except for the green speeds) including length
.
.
.
.
.
For an LPGA Major!

I'd like to see them pull back some of the changes they've made over the last 4 year for the Masters. Would be nice to give the guys a chance to be able to shoot a 30 on the back nine on Sunday. Hogan shot 14 under in 1953 to win it, Nicklaus shot 17 under in the 60's. What the heck is wrong with being able to shoot 14-17 under?

[rblmp32]

donzo, on Mar 24 2009, 08:29 PM, said:

Attended the Master's in 2005. Was suprised at the length of the rough... it's really short compared to the US open or PGA. I considered it almost non-existent... you don't get as good a lie as the fairway but your ball isn't invisible when your standing over it either.

Asleep, on Mar 24 2009, 08:52 PM, said:

donzo, on Mar 24 2009, 07:29 PM, said:

Attended the Master's in 2005. Was suprised at the length of the rough... it's really short compared to the US open or PGA. I considered it almost non-existent... you don't get as good a lie as the fairway but your ball isn't invisible when your standing over it either.

Me, too. Rough isn't much of an issue there, imo.

Yes but you gotta remember, its much more of an issue than in the past.... when there was no rough at all

[Awsi Dooger]

The course looked better on TV without the rough. It was incredibly unique and interesting as the one course per year where fairways met the trees and then emerged as fairways again.

The increased length was overdone. That was beyond predictable.

And #13 and #15 should be 2-shot holes if you manage the tee shot. The change I despise most is trees left on #15, forcing layups if you drive left.

But the one alteration I appreciate is #17. That had become too simple as a penultimate hole. I love it when the drives find tree trouble.

[honketyhank]

I attended the Masters in 2004. I would gladly play from the rough back then as if it were a fairway. I would gladly putt from the fairway back then as if it were a green. But man oh man, I would not then or now want to putt on those greens. Scay-errrrrr-y. Add to that the ridiculous length of the Masters' tees versus what I normally play for a par 4 or whatever at my home course, and holy moly.

But hooo-eee, grab you a Castlebury's BBQ samwich and a co-cola for a buck or two and just be in heaven. Heck with pimento cheese. That's yankee vittles. BBQ for me.

[jfstone4]

The rough stopped them from hitting good shots from the right angles into the greens. I say no rough shorten 7 a bit and take a few trees away.

[3whacker]

two reasons we may never see the old Augusta...the distance the golf ball travels, look up the old records the tournament was played at about 6900 yds

the other reason is that the Augusta National membership doesnt want just anyone winning their tournament, forget trying to Tiger proof it they eliminate 3/4 of the field before they even tee it up

[hattrick3518]

i would love to have it be all fairway, if they screw up they are in the pine straw... although most guys still tend to be in the crap even if there is rough

[McGuire]

Get another Zach Johnson type winner and they will make some changes. Augusta doesn't like those type of winners. They like the big boys and history. Not one time wonder/grinder.

[minitour]

victor2000, on Mar 24 2009, 08:42 PM, said:

I don't mind the rough as much as all of the trees that they planted. All of the trees they added on 11? Ridiculous! The trees on 15 and 17? Ridiculous! Adding all of the trees on 13? Ridiculous.

Keep the length - although there are certain spots, like 7, where it seems they added length just to add it. The golf course is too much of a grind right now.

I agree except for the rough. Get rid of it. Oh, I'm sorry...the "second cut". Get rid of it. More balls rolled into the pines off to the sides of 9 and 14, etc. than they do now. The second cut seems to hold the ball up so it doesn't roll under a pine. So it reduces the spin...who cares? They figure out how to make it work.

Keep the length, remove the trees...remove the "second cut". While we're at it, bring back the mounds on the right side of 15.

-mini

[TheCapedAvenger]

minitour, on Mar 25 2009, 08:19 AM, said:

victor2000, on Mar 24 2009, 08:42 PM, said:

I don't mind the rough as much as all of the trees that they planted. All of the trees they added on 11? Ridiculous! The trees on 15 and 17? Ridiculous! Adding all of the trees on 13? Ridiculous.

Keep the length - although there are certain spots, like 7, where it seems they added length just to add it. The golf course is too much of a grind right now.

I agree except for the rough. Get rid of it. Oh, I'm sorry...the "second cut". Get rid of it. More balls rolled into the pines off to the sides of 9 and 14, etc. than they do now. The second cut seems to hold the ball up so it doesn't roll under a pine. So it reduces the spin...who cares? They figure out how to make it work.

Keep the length, remove the trees...remove the "second cut". While we're at it, bring back the mounds on the right side of 15.

-mini

+5 points for you!

I loved the "no rough" masters because peopled ended up in the wierdest spots- the rough, contrary to what you would think, actually makes the tournament more predictable. Without rough, people get all sorts of weird bounces and try all sorts of crazy, entertaining shots.

also, I liked the fact that the masters was usually won with -10, -11 type scores. Now it's even par and hang on like crazy. I want at least one major where you CAN go low, not another carbon copy of the US open.

[The Duck]

McGuire, on Mar 25 2009, 08:15 AM, said:

Get another Zach Johnson type winner and they will make some changes. Augusta doesn't like those type of winners. They like the big boys and history. Not one time wonder/grinder.

Wonder grinders?
It seems they have set up the course to stop the bombers now. all about shotmaking and control.

Weir
Zack
Trevor

Not the very top shelf ppl but very good multiple time PGA tour winners.

Although you have a hard time charging the back nine at Augusta it still makes good golf where making par is a birdie in reality.

[minitour]

TheCapedAvenger, on Mar 25 2009, 12:33 PM, said:

minitour, on Mar 25 2009, 08:19 AM, said:

victor2000, on Mar 24 2009, 08:42 PM, said:

I don't mind the rough as much as all of the trees that they planted. All of the trees they added on 11? Ridiculous! The trees on 15 and 17? Ridiculous! Adding all of the trees on 13? Ridiculous.

Keep the length - although there are certain spots, like 7, where it seems they added length just to add it. The golf course is too much of a grind right now.

I agree except for the rough. Get rid of it. Oh, I'm sorry...the "second cut". Get rid of it. More balls rolled into the pines off to the sides of 9 and 14, etc. than they do now. The second cut seems to hold the ball up so it doesn't roll under a pine. So it reduces the spin...who cares? They figure out how to make it work.

Keep the length, remove the trees...remove the "second cut". While we're at it, bring back the mounds on the right side of 15.

-mini

+5 points for you!

I loved the "no rough" masters because peopled ended up in the wierdest spots- the rough, contrary to what you would think, actually makes the tournament more predictable. Without rough, people get all sorts of weird bounces and try all sorts of crazy, entertaining shots.

also, I liked the fact that the masters was usually won with -10, -11 type scores. Now it's even par and hang on like crazy. I want at least one major where you CAN go low, not another carbon copy of the US open.

While I like the idea of removing the second cut, I think with the length (the 11th is over 500 yards now? YGTBSM!) the scores would be higher. I wouldn't mind seeing -4 to -7 winning every year and I think removing the 2nd cut and some of the trees would allow for that.

Augusta is about the roars on Sunday being heard around the course...not guys having to scramble from the trees right of 15 and 11 to make pars.

-mini

[mark m]

Will we see the "old" Augusta?

I preferred no rough, but I think the firmness of the greens is more of an issue if they keep the rough. (The rough probably came in because of the changes in the grooves and golf ball.) The firmness of the greens caused by (or combined with) some less than ideal weather made the approach shots much more difficult in some of the recent years. (Hopefully they will have good weather this year.) I really think they need to make it worth while to go for the back nine par 5's - 13 & 15. These holes set up the ideal heroic type shots that create the excitement. That has been missing. Not good IMO.

In addition, an exciting Masters tournament is one of the most important things that needs to happen if we want to grow the game of golf. Making this a grind fest is not the way to grow the game in my opinion. Only the hardcore golfers like us here can really appreciate a super tough course. Plus, as others have said, we already have the US Open for that. The Masters needs to be different. Hopefully they will make some necessary adjustments which will bring back the excitement.

I know of a number of people - many of them don't play, or rarely play, golf - but who watch The Masters. This is the only golf tournament many of them watch all year. This was because it was typically an exciting tournament and the course's beauty also was important. (Very few commercial interuptions helps as well.) I know of others, including myself, that watching the Masters as a youngster was key in forming a desire to play the game. I assume I'm not alone on these points?

I agree that they should stop worrying about the winning score and set up the course so that fireworks can happen.

[InTheHole]

Won't the 2010 groove changes affect how they set up Augusta? Wasn't that the point of the rule change?

[TheCapedAvenger]

InTheHole, on Mar 25 2009, 10:34 AM, said:

Won't the 2010 groove changes affect how they set up Augusta? Wasn't that the point of the rule change?

One can only hope. It will definitely make it more difficult to spin the ball, even from the "fairway" that augusta calls the first cut.

[Giantbear]

I don't know what they need to do in the specifics, but they need to bring back the excitement of the back nine. The old saying was always that the Masters doesn't begin until the back nine on Sunday. They need to make that true again. Masters excitement isn't outlasting the next guy, its birdies and eagles on a Sunday back nine charge

[Tighthead]

Watch where Jack made birdie from in 1986 on 17. No way does he get away with that today.

Look at some of the past champions - Arnold and Ballesteros, aggressive players with outstanding recovery capabilities, willing to court the risk of bogey to have a chance at birdie or eagle. Recovery skills have become much less appreciated in recent years with the belief that wayward drives should be punished outright, as opposed to being overcome through skill and daring.

Augusta was the ultimate risk reward course. A player in contention on the back nine on Sunday could post a 30, or a 40. Now, that same player is probably hoping to birdie 13 and 15, and par the rest - and he may well win. I don't begrudge Johnson his championship, but when a guy never feels compelled to hit a par 5 in two, the course is not encouraging going low - it is encouraging conservative play.

The USGA has become obsessed with penal rough, and it has spilled over to the PGA Championship and the Masters. Too many fans think that a major is a feat of endurance, instead of a triumph. I hope Mickelson's charge wasn't the last great one we see.

I like the US Open, and I love the way the Masters used to be. The more they resemble each other, the less I care for either.

[minitour]

Giantbear, on Mar 25 2009, 10:06 PM, said:

I don't know what they need to do in the specifics, but they need to bring back the excitement of the back nine. The old saying was always that the Masters doesn't begin until the back nine on Sunday. They need to make that true again. Masters excitement isn't outlasting the next guy, its birdies and eagles on a Sunday back nine charge

*ahem* "Second" Nine. Technical term. Augusta for "back nine".



-mini

[jdub123]

midasmulligan2000, on Mar 24 2009, 09:35 PM, said:

The Augusta greens ... no normal golfer can play those greens.

Why?

[AcesAZ]

I agree with the majority here. Bobby Jones and Alister Mackenzie didn't design the course with all these trees in play and rough. I love the extra length as it was needed to keep up with the technology but the extra trees and rough need to go. Make the fairways play firmer and faster as well so wayward shots do find the pine straw. Weve seen almost zero roll with that backward cut.

[Scotttau]

+1 on the trees and angles. The type of hook required to have a crack at 13 is nuts. Layup is too much of an automatic choice for too many these days, and 7 needs to be wound back.

[20something]

I think Billy will make some changes to return Augusta to the way it used to be.
But it'll be done subtlely so as to not embarass Hootie.
Billy has more PR awareness where Hootie didn't give a sh*t.
I think the next few years will be interesting......

[masegolf1978]

I really like this picture of 7. It and 11 have gotten way to hard, in my opinion. Vijay hit this ball pretty good, and you can see what he has left. . .

Attached thumbnail(s)

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[masegolf1978]

Well, obviously the top pic is of 16, but the bottom one is the one I'm referring to.

[Golf Monkey]

Lots of good points, well made. The magic of the back nine on the Sunday has disappeared. It has to be the course set up. Conservative golf is now rewarded. The best players of the era need to be competing to make Augusta valid as a major venue. Names like Woods, Garcia, Harrington, Singh, Els, Goosen, Mickelson must be in the frame.

[minitour]

masegolf1978, on Mar 26 2009, 02:21 PM, said:

Well, obviously the top pic is of 16, but the bottom one is the one I'm referring to.

Looks like that's not to far up past the cross walk. Yikes.

That green isn't deep enough to accept a 5 iron.

-mini

[PKMillerJr]

Simp, on Mar 24 2009, 08:12 PM, said:

I, for one, would like Augusta to be played as it was intended to be played: wide fairways and no rough to speak of. The way the tournament committee sets up the course now makes it seem like just another tour stop in some ways. Leave the yardage as it is now though. That's needed. Who else would like to see the Augusta of old emerge once more?

I would love to see the old Augusta back.

Redo the tees and greens to specs of the old course and require a reduced flight ball. Either have a ball made just for that tournament by one manufacturer or allow all the manufacturers to submit a reduced flight ball for approval. Nicklaus has said this is not the course he won on. Nicklaus advocates rolling the ball back for distance.

Major League Baseball still mandates wooden bats. If aluminum or composite bats were used it would change the game and records would be not comparable. Even the maple bat has done this to some extent.

I would love to see persimmon come back but that will not happen at the Masters but the redo of the course and restricted flight balls are doable. The reduction in groove volume on irons will bring back the style of the old game to some extent.

[masegolf1978]

minitour, on Mar 26 2009, 03:13 PM, said:

masegolf1978, on Mar 26 2009, 02:21 PM, said:

Well, obviously the top pic is of 16, but the bottom one is the one I'm referring to.

Looks like that's not to far up past the cross walk. Yikes.

That green isn't deep enough to accept a 5 iron.

-mini

Indeed. I'm sure you've been to Augusta before since I've seen your posts, but for anyone else, this picture gives a good idea of how shallow/undulating 7 green is. I remember a practice round from I think 2007 where I was following Ernie really late in the afternoon (with a gallery of about 5 people) before they closed the gates. The last hole I saw him play was 7, or at least saw him tee off. He hit three drives and said he hated the hole.

Attached thumbnail(s)

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[opus_mh]

i agree with the deletion of the second cut. It hardly qualifies as anything but a mild nuisance. As for the length id like to see it scaled back to 7200 or so. 7 11 and 17 need to be shortened and 4 is just silly from 236.

[itype2slo]

The saying, "the tournament doesn't start until the back nine on Sunday" is not true any more. There is very little chance for someone to charge up the leaderboard and force the leaders to make birdies when they have most pressure they will ever experience. Anything the prohibits this from happening, ie rough, I am not a fan of. No one wants to see guys hitting to the middle of greens and lagging for par. We already have one US Open.

[WildcatCoach]

There is a very interesting article in the new Golf Digest (MASTER'S EDITION) about how changing two holes (the two par 5's on the back, if I'm not mistaken) would help a LOT. I agree that it is more of a "hold on and don't make any big mistakes" course than it used to be. These guys have no real reward to be aggressive/creative like they used to.

Still, there is no tournament I look forward to more than the Masters.

[minitour]

masegolf1978, on Mar 26 2009, 10:26 PM, said:

minitour, on Mar 26 2009, 03:13 PM, said:

masegolf1978, on Mar 26 2009, 02:21 PM, said:

Well, obviously the top pic is of 16, but the bottom one is the one I'm referring to.

Looks like that's not to far up past the cross walk. Yikes.

That green isn't deep enough to accept a 5 iron.

-mini

Indeed. I'm sure you've been to Augusta before since I've seen your posts, but for anyone else, this picture gives a good idea of how shallow/undulating 7 green is. I remember a practice round from I think 2007 where I was following Ernie really late in the afternoon (with a gallery of about 5 people) before they closed the gates. The last hole I saw him play was 7, or at least saw him tee off. He hit three drives and said he hated the hole.

It's a real b*tch now, I'm sure. We were there in '07 and from the crosswalk, I couldn't believe how tough that 2nd shot looked. Then we went up by the green and I almost puked. Make them hit a driver? Okay. But give them an 8 or 9 iron into that green. If they want to hit 2 iron, that's fine...but then hit a 5 into the green.

I think that hole is a little quirky now. Same with 9 and the way the "2nd cut" is laid out. The hole runs right, turns left and the "2nd cut" is pretty tight down there on the right. Seems like they have to "lay back" now on 9 to have a shot from the fairway. I'd like to see that widened out a bit. Give them a chance...

-mini

[opus_mh]

i played it in 2001 before tigerizing when it was 6982 and it was a lot of fun. The members tee is a blast form 6500 an absolute birdie fest. The 7500 is just not all that enjoyable. Its just too much like work. You really have to stay with it to get it around from the back tees now. Id like to see them play it from around 7200. i wanna see back nine 30s and winners from four back on sunday, not oglvy grinding out two pars waiting for phil to double 18 and win

Cheers
Scott