[jeffyjeffmn]

http://www.golf.com/...rticl...1887377,00.html


I read this article this afternoon and I thought I would see it up here by now but I did not see it and could not find it via the search function. As far as I am concerned, this is a no brainer for tv and golf. As I have read on here from many other people, Rich Lerner could take the slow boat to China and never return to TV and I wouldn't lose a minute of sleep. I am sure he is a nice guy and I mean him no ill will, but I really don't care to listen to him. The last couple of tournaments I have just muted the tv and and listened to music instead. I actually like watching the Euro tour because they show GOLF, imagine that, a channel that dedicates itself to showing golf actually giving its patrons just that. No silly commentaries or terrible commentary. A good read and I truly hope the pga tour figures out how to make this happen somehow.

[mat562]

It could make for some interesting insights into the shots the players are facing but, as you've already touched upon, it will involve certain commentators reining in the verbal diarrhoea so that we can actually hear it all and make best use of it.

Perhaps the producer will employ a 'kill switch' that cuts the power to Lerner's microphone at such times? I honestly don't think the bloke could be trusted to pipe down of his own accord.

I also feel that a delay will be needed in the case of live golf. The potential language on Sunday when a caddie sees a ball in the water and his 10% cut slipping away doesn't bear thinking about.

[creeder06]

i think it is a good idea, but i few questions about it.

1. how would we know what sergio was saying??

2. would players get fined for cussing on the mike?

3. is there any violations that could come about as we and possibly other players hear what is being said during clubing choices?

4. do we really want to be that close to the action?

5. if we did this could we get rid of the comentators? (includeing johnny miller?)

6. how many players would they mike up? tiger and whoever he is playing with since that is all that ever gets broadcasted anyway.

7. would the players have to consent to this?

[samsnead]

it will not happen unless they pay the caddies, pga tour tried to make they caddies fill out yardages and clubs for shotlink when it first started , they laughed and threw it away after the round

[scotto69]

If you're close to the lead on Sunday, and could tune in and hear every club selection from guys playing before you go out, would it be an unfair advantage?

[Alefty]

they don't have to mike them, just point shotgun mikes at them?

[3whacker]

the players wont go for it unless you throw some $$$ at them. their relationship with their caddie is kind of like the last bastion of privacy for them in the sports world. the off color comments between player and caddie would not be fit for public consumption

[b81smith]

by no brainer I HOPE you mean that it's a GREAT IDEA, I love it when they get close to Phil and Bones, and to hear about how they think about shots, even when the camera got close to tiger last tournament he was in, he hit a great shot and stevie says 'if that isn't great I'm going home' LOL, comments like that keep the game fresh, unexpected, but swearing/language is the only thing I see holding it back.... someone in a booth/truck/van would need to sort through it all and decide whats interesting and whats not and everyone has their own opinion on what is....or he'll just put the top name players on and perhaps they're more colorful commentaries going on with a player 155th in the world doing badly that day instead of tiger tiger, phil, ernie, retief, tiger tiger phil, vijay, tiger tiger, LOL, you know what I mean.

[etsix]

no way tiger would agree to that because he curses so often that we can hear, just think of the things he says that we cant hear

[307golf]

As much as I'd like to hear it, I don't believe it will ever happen. Caddie-player is a protected relationship IMO. Somewhat like Doctor-patient or lawyer-client. The relationship would be forever altered if it were public. Also, players mental processing may be considered proprietary info...

[Harry Longshanks]

Everytime this thread pops up, for some reason I read it as "PGA Tour considering "milking" the caddies."

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

I'm not sure what that says about me.

[mantan]

307golf, on Mar 24 2009, 10:30 PM, said:

As much as I'd like to hear it, I don't believe it will ever happen. Caddie-player is a protected relationship IMO. Somewhat like Doctor-patient or lawyer-client. The relationship would be forever altered if it were public. Also, players mental processing may be considered proprietary info...

I agree. In this reality show entertainment era we all expect to have inside information to what everyone is doing/thinking as part of the show. Sort of like when the NBA forced the coaches to 'mike up' during the game so we can hear the huddle and ask them idiotic questions between quarters ("So Doc, what are your defensive adjustments to slow down the Kobe in the second quarter?').

You can't tell me that they aren't being more careful in what they say because they know the world may be listening. Same with the player-caddy relationship. In the heat of the moment the last thing you want is to be measuring comments to make sure they won't be inappropriate, misinterpreted or somehow be taken the wrong way.

We all know the first time a caddy or player said something that rubbed fans the wrong way, they will be VILIFIED on boards like this one...

[mrhills0146]

I think it's a great idea and well worth paying the caddies to be miked up.

I would love to hear the sounds of silence from the booth. Imagine the type of coverage one gets from the European Tour, with the added bonus of the player / caddy conversation prior to hitting the shot. No incessant yammering on the same subject from Rich Lerner or Kelly Tilghman.

Love the idea.

[Matt727]

I love the idea...but find a couple problems

1. Too much cussing ... just would have to blank out a lot..more then you think...

2. As a player who has been a caddy and a player in the relationship...you don't want everyone hearing all of this stuff you say..as someone said before..its like your last resort of privacy out there..so I would love it to happen but because of those two I don't see it happening.

[defsoad]

I think that would be a good thing to listen to. It was nice to hear Phil and Bones talk about his approach into the 72nd at Doral. We would also get to hear some of the drama that sometimes goes on between players and caddies. From "The things caddies hate to hear their players say"

Quote

-- "How far did you say we had?"

Such a question typically is posed after a shot goes either 30 yards over the green or comes up 30 yards short. Usually, it means the caddie made a mathematical blunder -- but not always.

Shaun Micheel flew the 16th green at Wentworth by some 20 yards in the World Match Play Championship final against Paul Casey. Everyone assumed he had a bad yardage, especially when Micheel was overheard telling caddie Tony Lingard after making double bogey, "Don't say another word to me the rest of the day."

But that's not what happened. Micheel wanted to hit 8-iron, and when the ball sailed over the green, caddie Tony Lingard said to him, "Told you it was a 9-iron." Now that's probably the worst thing a caddie can say to his player.

But I agree with the responses saying they'd want privacy. If I were a player/caddy I wouldn't be too excited about this, especially in today's world where any little statement can get you in big trouble.

[freddiec]

I think this could be really bad.

I can see it now. AK's caddy: Hey, you got 155 to the front, 172 to the pin. I think you should hit your 4 iron again. This could completely blow the Tour guys cover and then all us WRXers will know for sure we hit our irons 10 yards further than the Tour Guys. Too much of an ego boost for us.

[nlacross]

A journalist talked about player/caddy conversations in this weeks Golfweek magazine and how nice it was to hear a heated convo between Phil and Bones about club selection. He then goes on to say how dissapointed he was that it was interrupted by Miller asking Maltby how far from the center of the fairway was Phil's ball. The journalist basically was saying that viewers got to hear first hand a great discussion, then a stupid question from Miller that had no relevance to the shot whatsoever. I don't think caddies need to wear microphones... But I think it would be good to tell Miller and whomever else in the booth if a boom picks up a convo with caddy/player, to stay quiet and let the viewers hear what is being said.

[BugsyinNC]

nlacross, on Mar 25 2009, 11:04 AM, said:

A journalist talked about player/caddy conversations in this weeks Golfweek magazine and how nice it was to hear a heated convo between Phil and Bones about club selection. He then goes on to say how dissapointed he was that it was interrupted by Miller asking Maltby how far from the center of the fairway was Phil's ball. The journalist basically was saying that viewers got to hear first hand a great discussion, then a stupid question from Miller that had no relevance to the shot whatsoever. I don't think caddies need to wear microphones... But I think it would be good to tell Miller and whomever else in the booth if a boom picks up a convo with caddy/player, to stay quiet and let the viewers hear what is being said.

+1
Players will never go for their employees being miked. The commentators need to shut up when the boom mikes pick up player/caddy conversations.

[McGuire]

Reminded me of Bones McKay's stupid advice to Phil on the last hole of Doral. Bones wanted Phil to hook the ball over the water to a tight pin while holding a slim lead ... ya OK. Funny how Phil just grabbed his club and said ' I don't want to do that' and then hit a nice easy fade right at the flag.

Caddies are overrated .. .we don't need to hear from them. Especially since most will see it as a chance to put on a show and try to force their importance on us. The Phil/Bones show before each shot and putt has gotten old.

Do you remember the 98 Masters ? ... Fred Couples gets himself out of a jam on the 13th. Has a 7 iron in to the hole to get his par. Get out. Remain in the lead and find a birdie somewhere else. His caddie talks him into a ' easy 6 ' ... ball goes in to the water. Fred loses the Masters because of it. Watching him walk away and not talk his caddie the rest of the round ( while fighting back to tie ) tells you all you need to know about there importance.

No ' miking' the caddie ... bad idea

[arkstorm]

First of all, you got that story all wrong about Bones on the 72nd hole at Doral. He gave Phil two options, one was to hit the draw ovr the water, the other was to hit the soft fade. They discussed it and Phil chose the soft fade. That is perfect caddying, suggest options and let the player decide.

As for Couples and his caddy, a player should never take it out on is man because its the player's ultimate decision what shot to play.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to start a whole new thread rather than just comment on the existing 'miking the caddies' thread. Sounds like you think your opinion is so important it deserves its own thread.

[Bob Cat]

Ironically, your description begs we mic 'em and listen in on the fun.

[McGuire]

If you think 'fun' is 6 hour rounds ... those guys will milk for all it's not worth


Here should have been the Phil/Bones conversation:

Bones - ' you going to fade a 7 in there '
Phil - ' yep'

crack ... tourney over

[arkstorm]

McGuire, on Mar 25 2009, 11:17 AM, said:

If you think 'fun' is 6 hour rounds ... those guys will milk for all it's not worth


Here should have been the Phil/Bones conversation:

Bones - ' you going to fade a 7 in there '
Phil - ' yep'

crack ... tourney over

You seem to have it all figured out. BTW, what tour pro do you caddy for?

[arkstorm]

Most tour caddies I've seen are very down to earth people who work very hard. And I, for one, find it very interesting to know what they're saying to their player. So from where I stand, miking them up is brilliant.

What basis do you have to support your conjecture that "those guys will milk for all it's not worth"?

[theelvis510]

It'd be fun, maybe they could live feed it to HBO so we get the uncensored. But most of those guys would find the off button real quick. Too many stories of the night before and the night to come in that fratenity.

[arkstorm]

Harry Longshanks, on Mar 25 2009, 12:30 AM, said:

Everytime this thread pops up, for some reason I read it as "PGA Tour considering "milking" the caddies."

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

I'm not sure what that says about me.

At least I'm not the only one.

[KoKo-Butta]

To be honest with you – I’d prefer to listen to the conversation between Bones and Phil rather than Johnnie Millers speculation of what Phil’s going to hit.

Just my .02…….

[Harry Longshanks]

arkstorm, on Mar 25 2009, 09:14 AM, said:

Harry Longshanks, on Mar 25 2009, 12:30 AM, said:

Everytime this thread pops up, for some reason I read it as "PGA Tour considering "milking" the caddies."

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

I'm not sure what that says about me.

At least I'm not the only one.

Maybe this is the new caddie uniform:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

[McGuire]

Phil/Bones act, and yes it seems like an act, gets old after the 1st time. Ya ... let's drop in on one or two conversations during a key moment. Otherwise poor idea. You would see some major grandstanding ... after all , they are just caddies.

[buttuh]

So you think the caddies would put up a show knowing that they're miked? You're giving them too much credit. For me I'd like to hear those conversations, because I want to see which players tend to listen to their caddies and vice versa.

[MrJones]

McGuire, on Mar 25 2009, 12:42 PM, said:

Phil/Bones act, and yes it seems like an act, gets old after the 1st time. Ya ... let's drop in on one or two conversations during a key moment. Otherwise poor idea. You would see some major grandstanding ... after all , they are just caddies.

I imagine it's more about listening to the players conversations rahter than the caddies themselves. And do you really think the caddies are going to put on some big show because they're miked? They work for the players, and if the players don't like what they're doing they'll be gone the next week.

[Marrrk]

oooh, in the early lead for "worst post of 2009"

seriously, with obvious vitriol you mine two random (poorly recounted) examples to use as evidence against doing something that 99% of golf fans will find fascinating and uniquely informative, and that will increase golf coverage quality enormously? and you felt so strongly about it that to post it in the original thread would have been unthinkable? EDIT: not to mention throwing every caddie under the bus without any responsibility on the player himself.

ya know, i'm usually not confrontational on here, and it's nothing personal at all, but this was baaaaad.

[arkstorm]

Marrrk, on Mar 25 2009, 01:22 PM, said:

oooh, in the early lead for "worst post of 2009"

seriously, with obvious vitriol you mine two random (poorly recounted) examples to use as evidence against doing something that 99% of golf fans will find fascinating and uniquely informative, and that will increase golf coverage quality enormously? and you felt so strongly about it that to post it in the original thread would have been unthinkable? EDIT: not to mention throwing every caddie under the bus without any responsibility on the player himself.

ya know, i'm usually not confrontational on here, and it's nothing personal at all, but this was baaaaad.

+1

[McGuire]

Really ... 5,000 posts about not enough 'golf shots' being shown on any telecast. Yet, we now want conversations between player and caddie. Most which will end up in the obvious.

Show a couple conversations , maybe in key moments ... otherwise let's see the golf. No need to make the caddie anything more than what he is.

[eddiea54]

Really, why did you start another thread? Seems like you just want to stir it up.

[Lefty4par2]

McGuire, on Mar 25 2009, 01:17 PM, said:

Really ... 5,000 posts about not enough 'golf shots' being shown on any telecast. Yet, we now want conversations between player and caddie. Most which will end up in the obvious.

Show a couple conversations , maybe in key moments ... otherwise let's see the golf. No need to make the caddie anything more than what he is.

lol.. really dude, just face it... You loose! as stated before, 99% of golf fans really like the dialog. We like it more than the announcers yappin'. And If I recall correctly from a technical standpoint, the caddies don't have mics on them physically, I believe it's the microphones with the camera guys! So, the caddies don't really know when they will or will not have their conversation.

Pointless Post!!

[Awsi Dooger]

The vast majority of caddies won't say anything unique or interesting so this will be sparingly used. But it's great for the handful of confident and chatty player/caddy teams. Looking forward to it.

Many pros are not going to like this. They want to be the sole focus, no credit to anyone else. I distinctly remember Lee Janzen's cutting use of the "...dogs who chase cars, pros who chip for pars, and caddies who think they're stars" line about 10 years ago. You could see from his facial expression he took particular joy in saying that, and thought he invented it. I started rooting against Janzen at that point and it worked out splendidly.

It's bizarre to believe the Mickelson/Bones routine is an act. They do it on every shot regardless if a camera or microphone is within a thousand yards. Early in the first round at Doral this year Mickelson hit a Winged Foot-type drive on #3, across the cart path to a barren downhill lie. He and Bones discussed every option for several minutes, before Phil decided to hit a big cut around a tree. It didn't bend at all and he ended up in the pond. Double bogey. The TV was hours away and Tiger was already on the course, so there were only a couple dozen spectators near Phil and Bones at the time.

On site I love to listen to their strategy on every shot. The only thing that gets old is Bones believing he has to lesson someone in the gallery. He frequently tells someone to move or keep quiet.

[arkstorm]

The Mickelson/Bones routine is not an act. The OP has no clue what he's talking about and is just making stuff up to get a rise.

[krustyburger]

McGuire, on Mar 25 2009, 11:29 AM, said:

Reminded me of Bones McKay's stupid advice to Phil on the last hole of Doral. Bones wanted Phil to hook the ball over the water to a tight pin while holding a slim lead ... ya OK. Funny how Phil just grabbed his club and said ' I don't want to do that' and then hit a nice easy fade right at the flag.

Caddies are overrated .. .we don't need to hear from them. Especially since most will see it as a chance to put on a show and try to force their importance on us. The Phil/Bones show before each shot and putt has gotten old.

Do you remember the 98 Masters ? ... Fred Couples gets himself out of a jam on the 13th. Has a 7 iron in to the hole to get his par. Get out. Remain in the lead and find a birdie somewhere else. His caddie talks him into a ' easy 6 ' ... ball goes in to the water. Fred loses the Masters because of it. Watching him walk away and not talk his caddie the rest of the round ( while fighting back to tie ) tells you all you need to know about there importance.

No ' miking' the caddie ... bad idea

You should really stick to your usual posts about your girlfriend Kelly Tellingham.

[arkstorm]

krustyburger, on Mar 25 2009, 03:19 PM, said:

McGuire, on Mar 25 2009, 11:29 AM, said:

Reminded me of Bones McKay's stupid advice to Phil on the last hole of Doral. Bones wanted Phil to hook the ball over the water to a tight pin while holding a slim lead ... ya OK. Funny how Phil just grabbed his club and said ' I don't want to do that' and then hit a nice easy fade right at the flag.

Caddies are overrated .. .we don't need to hear from them. Especially since most will see it as a chance to put on a show and try to force their importance on us. The Phil/Bones show before each shot and putt has gotten old.

Do you remember the 98 Masters ? ... Fred Couples gets himself out of a jam on the 13th. Has a 7 iron in to the hole to get his par. Get out. Remain in the lead and find a birdie somewhere else. His caddie talks him into a ' easy 6 ' ... ball goes in to the water. Fred loses the Masters because of it. Watching him walk away and not talk his caddie the rest of the round ( while fighting back to tie ) tells you all you need to know about there importance.

No ' miking' the caddie ... bad idea

You should really stick to your usual posts about your girlfriend Kelly Tellingham.

Or, let's not forget his classic contributions such as, "why are so many infatuated with what Hogan had to say
half the stuff was bs and condescending...Hogan was a bitter old man , who stopped giving back to the game."

Thanks to the OP for your continuing insight.