had a clubmaker in new jersey tell that epon irons were a better product than tourstage or fourteen irons. just wondering what everyone thinks?? i know endo forges for tourstage not sure who does fourteen so very curious. i can understand trying to sell epon as they get more money for it. however if u bump up the shafts in the other sets they too will cost more. owned epon 701 with fuji shaft and didnt like clicking sound. fourteen has no sound but solid feel. tourstage xblade gr also has somewhat of a clicking sound but also great feel. also own fourteen tc550 forged with fuji 7e05 shafts.
help help please do i go back to epon 501, 301 or what? this guy has put the bug in my head now.
in the bag this week
honma 50th ann driver
fourteen sf306 3 wood
fourteen rescue 21 degree
tourstage xblade gr 4-p tourstage 65 shaft
chikara proto 50 with bassara shaft
chikara proto 54 with bassara shaft
chikara proto 58 with bassara shaft
putter golds factory #2
ball tourstage xo1 r+
I played with the Fourteen TC 1000 irons for about six months and liked them very much. But, now I play the Epon 301 irons and they are even nicer to hit. I like the set-up of the Epons better and they feel so crisp when you hit them. Both iron sets are top notch.
The "click" you felt in the AF-701 is partly due to the AsRoll (high COR spring steel) face. But the main cause for the "click" is the undercut design. The larger and deeper undercut will usually produce a more distinct "click" on impact. Even in a combo set like my Type S (same as AF-501), you can definitely feel the "click" when hitting the 4-6 irons while the 7-pw are absolutely solid. They just don't sound as loud as the AF-701 because of the smaller heads and shallower undercuts. The AF-301 are probably one of the best feeling irons but not quite as forgiving as the AF-701 or the TC550 Forged you have. If you really can't stand the "click" but want something more forgiving than the AF-301 I'd suggest the 2009 X-Blade GR C-1, the 2007 ViQ Forged, or just stay with your current TC550.
i tested the epon af tours and 301s. And the 301s had a softer feel than the blades, the distributor for epon told me they would play the same but softer and he was right. Might be worth trying if you like the soft feel
Good grief, if you put graphites in the 301s I doubt you could actually feel the ball. I agree, the 701s are clicky partly because they use a different steel compared to the 301 or 501. Fourteens I think are overrated but I would say tourstage has more design experience/expertise than either of them. Just an opinion.
ps I wouldn't mind at all having your bag. It's horrible...really
Good grief, if you put graphites in the 301s I doubt you could actually feel the ball. I agree, the 701s are clicky partly because they use a different steel compared to the 301 or 501. Fourteens I think are overrated but I would say tourstage has more design experience/expertise than either of them. Just an opinion.
ps I wouldn't mind at all having your bag. It's horrible...really
thanks much that's what i needed to hear. just put javln bassara in the tourstage x blade gr. hope that proves to be a positive.
I like Fourteen. I agree some Epon models are softer and most Tourstage models are as well. I do find the Fourteens are the best balance of feel and durability.
My Xblades and MR23s would ding if you looked at them hard enough
My TB1000s have survived a bag falling off a cart with minimal dings yet they still feel very good.
I find the Fourteen technology is very understated. i.e the centered sweet spot on a blade/muscleback. the very versatile grind on the MT28 V3s without sharp edges to the grinding. These don't normally get noticed by most JDM lovers because JDM loves to show off the tech visibly.
put the javln m8 shafts in the xblade gr. fantastic feeling club now. distance is about the same as fourteens maybe a hair longer. but the soft feeling cannot be beat especailly without the "clicking" sound.
witb
-------
honma 50th ann driver
fourteen sf206 3 wood
fourteen u rescue 21degree
xblade gr 4-p javln mi8 shaft
chikara proto 50 javln shaft
chikara proto 54 javln shaft
chikara proto 58 javln shaft
ball tourstage x ro1+
Esinger,
Would you consider you xblade gr to be forgiving irons? I could put my hand on some and would like some feedback.
i find them forgiving and a solid hit. i am talking about the 2008 version. i dont know about the current xblade but have to assume technology only got better or they just changed shape for marketing.
i finally discovered that beuty and performance is soley in the eye of the beholder. with the exception of fourteen, tourstage and miura i think they are all the same in the end. its really what u are happy with.i make this startling revelation by my own wierd experience. every season i get several new drivers this year being no exception. i started with the prgr gn. good distance but didnt like the clanging sound at impact. went to the honma 50th anniversary driver 3 star shaft and ball flight was higher but distance basically the same and didnt like feel of hit. went back to my tourstage premium viq driver with matrix fm6 shaft and loved the solid feel again. this driver with shaft cost me about $1400. went to my club on demo day and picked up the new taylor made tour burner out of the rack. 10.5 degree with reax 49 regular shaft. my goodness what a solid feel and same distance as all other clubs for $1100 less. i was in love with my black chikara prototype double punched grooves wedges until finish began to wear off. did not like look as paint started coming off. went to fourteen m28v4 50, 54, and 58 with javln shafts. my goodness!! ball stops and backs up too and satin finish still there.
guess what i am finally saying is if u like the feel and performance of a club then that is the one for you. end of story!!
in the bag now:
tm burner 10.5 with reax 49 shaft(took the demo from the rep)
3 wood prgr egg spoon 15 degree prgr graphite shaft
5 wood fourteen sf308 18deg
rescue fourteen 21 degree with fourteen reg graphite
irons tourstage xblade gr with javln mi8 graphite shaft 4-p
wedges fourteen m28v4 with javln mi8 graphite shafts (50, 54 and 60)
putter odyssey belly 41 inch
ball tourstage xo1r and xo1b
ive hit both the epon and fourteen. no comparison IMO. Epon is so much better in terms of feel, technology, etc. I've almost saved enough for a set of PUREd and MOI built Epons. I cant wait.
I have been playing the Epon Type S(AF-501) with NSPRO 1150 X-Stiff +1/2(soft stepped) for about 2 years now, and i have to say that I have found no reason to even think of changing. That is saying a lot from a self professed Club Ho, without the swing to warrant such behavior. I can tell the difference between the 7-PW and 3-6(undercut) but still are some of the softest forgings I have ever felt.
My 5 and 6 irons have become my go to clubs now on short par 5’s with my new swing and added yardage(6-185/190)-(5-195/200)
Esinger,
Would you consider you xblade gr to be forgiving irons? I could put my hand on some and would like some feedback.
i find them forgiving and a solid hit. i am talking about the 2008 version. i dont know about the current xblade but have to assume technology only got better or they just changed shape for marketing.
i finally discovered that beuty and performance is soley in the eye of the beholder. with the exception of fourteen, tourstage and miura i think they are all the same in the end. its really what u are happy with.i make this startling revelation by my own wierd experience. every season i get several new drivers this year being no exception. i started with the prgr gn. good distance but didnt like the clanging sound at impact. went to the honma 50th anniversary driver 3 star shaft and ball flight was higher but distance basically the same and didnt like feel of hit. went back to my tourstage premium viq driver with matrix fm6 shaft and loved the solid feel again. this driver with shaft cost me about $1400. went to my club on demo day and picked up the new taylor made tour burner out of the rack. 10.5 degree with reax 49 regular shaft. my goodness what a solid feel and same distance as all other clubs for $1100 less. i was in love with my black chikara prototype double punched grooves wedges until finish began to wear off. did not like look as paint started coming off. went to fourteen m28v4 50, 54, and 58 with javln shafts. my goodness!! ball stops and backs up too and satin finish still there.
guess what i am finally saying is if u like the feel and performance of a club then that is the one for you. end of story!!
in the bag now:
tm burner 10.5 with reax 49 shaft(took the demo from the rep)
3 wood prgr egg spoon 15 degree prgr graphite shaft
5 wood fourteen sf308 18deg
rescue fourteen 21 degree with fourteen reg graphite
irons tourstage xblade gr with javln mi8 graphite shaft 4-p
wedges fourteen m28v4 with javln mi8 graphite shafts (50, 54 and 60)
putter odyssey belly 41 inch
ball tourstage xo1r and xo1b
did you rate those chikara wedges tho ? i'm looking at them, havnt had a chance to hit one, and primarily interested in the sole grind. how do they stack up against the 14's ? anyone tried Eidolons??
Epon heads are forged in Japan in one of the most modern foundries in the world. Fourteen heads are produced in China, perhaps Thailand. The Epon 301 is a great feeling small cavity back iron -- one of the best designs ever and it feels great -- it is a little softer in feel than the Epon AFTour, but the AFTour has a great balance through the swing. The Epon 501 and 701 have minimal offset compared to just about any other game improvement design around.
any of you guys have experience with the Maruman Conductors? The conductors are also forged by Endo in Japan.
for those who have tried the conductors, which do you like more... Epon or Maruman?
Epon heads are forged in Japan in one of the most modern foundries in the world. Fourteen heads are produced in China, perhaps Thailand. The Epon 301 is a great feeling small cavity back iron -- one of the best designs ever and it feels great -- it is a little softer in feel than the Epon AFTour, but the AFTour has a great balance through the swing. The Epon 501 and 701 have minimal offset compared to just about any other game improvement design around.
John
Tried the 301 and I really liked it... I just don't think my skill level is good enough for them.
Just curious, how much harder is the 301 to hit compared to the 501? Or how much easier is the 501 compared to the 301?
I'm considering to get a combo... 301 for the 7 to PW and 501 for the longer irons.
On the other hand, I'm also thinking of waiting for the new 302 and 502 and see how they compare to the old models. Though, a rep told me the new 302 was to fill the niche between the 301 and the AfTours. And the 502 is to fill the niche between the 501 and the 701. Just not sure how accurate that is.
Epon heads are forged in Japan in one of the most modern foundries in the world. Fourteen heads are produced in China, perhaps Thailand. The Epon 301 is a great feeling small cavity back iron -- one of the best designs ever and it feels great -- it is a little softer in feel than the Epon AFTour, but the AFTour has a great balance through the swing. The Epon 501 and 701 have minimal offset compared to just about any other game improvement design around.
John
Tried the 301 and I really liked it... I just don't think my skill level is good enough for them.
Just curious, how much harder is the 301 to hit compared to the 501? Or how much easier is the 501 compared to the 301?
I'm considering to get a combo... 301 for the 7 to PW and 501 for the longer irons.
On the other hand, I'm also thinking of waiting for the new 302 and 502 and see how they compare to the old models. Though, a rep told me the new 302 was to fill the niche between the 301 and the AfTours. And the 502 is to fill the niche between the 501 and the 701. Just not sure how accurate that is.
I have had all three sets now only playing the 501 and 701. If you are a pure ball striker (irons), you would not have any problem with the 301 but if you are somewhat inconsistent like me, the 501 and especially the 701 would be ideal. I like the idea of playing a player CB but I also need to score well so I have gone back to the 501 and point and shoot 701. I personally do not see the need for a combo set as the 501 is already a good compromise or an in between set. At the same time, I think the 302 and 502 are replacement model as the 301 and 501 would be discontinued.
Epon heads are forged in Japan in one of the most modern foundries in the world. Fourteen heads are produced in China, perhaps Thailand. The Epon 301 is a great feeling small cavity back iron -- one of the best designs ever and it feels great -- it is a little softer in feel than the Epon AFTour, but the AFTour has a great balance through the swing. The Epon 501 and 701 have minimal offset compared to just about any other game improvement design around.
John
Tried the 301 and I really liked it... I just don't think my skill level is good enough for them.
Just curious, how much harder is the 301 to hit compared to the 501? Or how much easier is the 501 compared to the 301?
I'm considering to get a combo... 301 for the 7 to PW and 501 for the longer irons.
On the other hand, I'm also thinking of waiting for the new 302 and 502 and see how they compare to the old models. Though, a rep told me the new 302 was to fill the niche between the 301 and the AfTours. And the 502 is to fill the niche between the 501 and the 701. Just not sure how accurate that is.
Your rep is wrong.
The 502's are a direct replacement for the 501's as the 302's are a direct replacement for the 301's.
IMO the 501 and 301 models are similar. If your ball striking is not good enough for the 301's then the 701's would be the clubs to have.
Combo set would be sweet but as Duffy said the 501's, very soon to be the 502's are a very good compromise set. The 501(2)'s are a tad more forgiving than the 301's
BUT, just looking at the pictures the 502's look to have a bit more forgiveness designed into them than the outgoing 501's...
Epon heads are forged in Japan in one of the most modern foundries in the world. Fourteen heads are produced in China, perhaps Thailand. The Epon 301 is a great feeling small cavity back iron -- one of the best designs ever and it feels great -- it is a little softer in feel than the Epon AFTour, but the AFTour has a great balance through the swing. The Epon 501 and 701 have minimal offset compared to just about any other game improvement design around.
John
Tried the 301 and I really liked it... I just don't think my skill level is good enough for them.
Just curious, how much harder is the 301 to hit compared to the 501? Or how much easier is the 501 compared to the 301?
I'm considering to get a combo... 301 for the 7 to PW and 501 for the longer irons.
On the other hand, I'm also thinking of waiting for the new 302 and 502 and see how they compare to the old models. Though, a rep told me the new 302 was to fill the niche between the 301 and the AfTours. And the 502 is to fill the niche between the 501 and the 701. Just not sure how accurate that is.
I have had all three sets now only playing the 501 and 701. If you are a pure ball striker (irons), you would not have any problem with the 301 but if you are somewhat inconsistent like me, the 501 and especially the 701 would be ideal. I like the idea of playing a player CB but I also need to score well so I have gone back to the 501 and point and shoot 701. I personally do not see the need for a combo set as the 501 is already a good compromise or an in between set. At the same time, I think the 302 and 502 are replacement model as the 301 and 501 would be discontinued.
Duffy, thanks for the clarification...
Might as well wait for the new models and see what improvements there is...
Also, thanks for the advice... I'll most probably end up with the 501 or the 502.
Chocoboy, I am not sure whether this has been posted previously but these are two pictures of the new irons. I understand that these are still considered as proto and might not be the final product.
I am currently playing the 701's with nspro 1050 stiff. I put sensicore inserts in to dampen the vibration because of elbow issues. I really like them, long and straight.
They are not as soft as my 05' X-Tours.
I think I would like to try the 502's for the solid scoring irons.
Duffy can you comment on forgiveness level of 501 versus 701 in 7-pw?
Thanks,
Brad
I am currently playing the 701's with nspro 1050 stiff. I put sensicore inserts in to dampen the vibration because of elbow issues. I really like them, long and straight.
They are not as soft as my 05' X-Tours.
I think I would like to try the 502's for the solid scoring irons.
Duffy can you comment on forgiveness level of 501 versus 701 in 7-pw?
Thanks,
Brad
I think forgiveness wise, especially 7 and up, both set would be almost the same. I am a mid capper so I am okay with both sets and I do play iron longer than a 5. Feel wise, overall I would give the edge to 501 for shorter irons but 701 more forgiving for the long and mid irons.
Does anyone know whether the 502 6 iron and up have undercut cavity like the 501?
I have a mixed set of AF-Tour(PW), 301(9-8), 501(7-5), and 901 (4-3). I'm thinking of switching to a full set of 301's just because I don't like the clicky feel of the 501's 6-5 irons (I love the 501 7 iron).
If the new 502's 6-5 irons are not clicky, I would like to try a mixed set once more (301 PW-7, 502 6-5), as I really like mixed sets. If they're still clicky, though, I would have to go with a full 301 set.
I'm debating getting the new 502's that are coming out at the end of the month (looks like they are already out in japan as per an earlier post). Someone in Jersey sells them SST Pured, and "custom built" from the "ground up" with custom weight, shafts, everything. (275 a club).
I currently hit MP 52's from Mizuno. I've hit the 501's on a trackman and could not REALLY feel a difference (i'm only a 15 handi). I can definitely afford the epons, but I really like Mizuno and I'm wondering whether you guys think the price difference is really worth it? I love the feel of the Epons and what is making me lean towards getting them is reading several threads about how when you buy these JDM's the specs are within a MUCH tighter tolerance (loft, lie, etc.) Is this true?
I guess i just need a little goading before I fork over the cash later this month to make me feel better about downsizing my bank account
Anyone have first hand experience on the Fourteen...epon...AND MIURA??? just curious to know the forging difference (some clubs don't get notoriety)
I hit the Miura along with the Epons at the trackman fitting I had last month -
I had asked the fitter about Miuras as I knew that he was endorsing them last year through what I had read in this forum and others. He said that ever since Miura had started focusing on increasing their market share and increasing their capacity, the quality of their forgings have gone down. He said that epons were hands down the best forgings available in the JDM market, if not the world and that Honmas were just for people who wanted gold and jewels on their clubs.
I trust this fitter as he has a huge amount of feedback on the web, including this site.
I'm just wondering if these JDM clubs are worth it in general......
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