I agree with you that the tour can handle this differently, but they don't. I understand the Tiger saturation this week because they are hurting just like every other business. You capitalize where you can and hope he's still in there. But I say again until someone steps up to challenge him, you'll continue to have this. Arnie had Jack, Jack had Tom Watson. Tiger doesn't have anyone like that. Listen, I love golf as much as the next guy or gal and I'll go buy the next big set of irons or geek out on a Sunday afternoon in front of the TV, but on this board we're not the rule, we're the exception. If your horse left the stable and didn't come back for 2 weeks, who are you going to get to replace him?
No one has to like him. I'm not saying that. I don't like Phil, but that's me. But he is the face of the Tour. No one can deny that, but the problem is not Tiger, it's the approach the media uses in marketing him. Can we all just get along and watch some Tigerless-golf?
All 4 #1 seeds gone...is this going to be another one of those years at the match play when it's two relative unknowns going at it on the final day? You gotta love match play. You NEVER know what's going to happen.
as much as I like matchplay I have to disagree is terms of $$$$.. when the stars go home, it's very bad for ratings and attendance which is why you dont see more matchplay.
Sure they will. There was a time, not too long ago, where the Majors were telecast, and not much else.
Not too long ago, eh? Please...tell us all when this was, can you? I want to have your knowledge.
Believe it or not, there was a time when...
Other than the majors, there were just a few selective tournaments throughout the year that were actually broadcast. And...
There was one Game of the Week for baseball on Saturday afternoon, and that was the only baseball game broadcast all week. And....
NFL football consisted of one game (or once the AFL came along, two games) on Sunday, if you were lucky, and one of them was your local, or most regional team. And....
March madness didn't exist, and only 16 teams qualified for the NCAA tournament (which was usually won by UCLA). Only the Final Four was broadcast nationally. And....
College football consisted on one Saturday afternoon game. And.....
NHL Hockey was never on TV. And.....
You are correct. You do wish you had his (or my) knowledge, and you would love to have our experience!!!! Then you might not make stupid sarcastic comments like you did above!!
Sure they will. There was a time, not too long ago, where the Majors were telecast, and not much else.
Not too long ago, eh? Please...tell us all when this was, can you? I want to have your knowledge.
Believe it or not, there was a time when...
Other than the majors, there were just a few selective tournaments throughout the year that were actually broadcast. And...
There was one Game of the Week for baseball on Saturday afternoon, and that was the only baseball game broadcast all week. And....
NFL football consisted of one game (or once the AFL came along, two games) on Sunday, if you were lucky, and one of them was your local, or most regional team. And....
March madness didn't exist, and only 16 teams qualified for the NCAA tournament (which was usually won by UCLA). Only the Final Four was broadcast nationally. And....
College football consisted on one Saturday afternoon game. And.....
NHL Hockey was never on TV. And.....
You are correct. You do wish you had his (or my) knowledge, and you would love to have our experience!!!! Then you might not make stupid sarcastic comments like you did above!!
Sure they will. There was a time, not too long ago, where the Majors were telecast, and not much else.
Not too long ago, eh? Please...tell us all when this was, can you? I want to have your knowledge.
Believe it or not, there was a time when...
Other than the majors, there were just a few selective tournaments throughout the year that were actually broadcast. And...
There was one Game of the Week for baseball on Saturday afternoon, and that was the only baseball game broadcast all week. And....
NFL football consisted of one game (or once the AFL came along, two games) on Sunday, if you were lucky, and one of them was your local, or most regional team. And....
March madness didn't exist, and only 16 teams qualified for the NCAA tournament (which was usually won by UCLA). Only the Final Four was broadcast nationally. And....
College football consisted on one Saturday afternoon game. And.....
NHL Hockey was never on TV. And.....
You are correct. You do wish you had his (or my) knowledge, and you would love to have our experience!!!! Then you might not make stupid sarcastic comments like you did above!!
Sure they will. There was a time, not too long ago, where the Majors were telecast, and not much else.
Not too long ago, eh? Please...tell us all when this was, can you? I want to have your knowledge.
Believe it or not, there was a time when...
Other than the majors, there were just a few selective tournaments throughout the year that were actually broadcast. And...
There was one Game of the Week for baseball on Saturday afternoon, and that was the only baseball game broadcast all week. And....
NFL football consisted of one game (or once the AFL came along, two games) on Sunday, if you were lucky, and one of them was your local, or most regional team. And....
March madness didn't exist, and only 16 teams qualified for the NCAA tournament (which was usually won by UCLA). Only the Final Four was broadcast nationally. And....
College football consisted on one Saturday afternoon game. And.....
NHL Hockey was never on TV. And.....
You are correct. You do wish you had his (or my) knowledge, and you would love to have our experience!!!! Then you might not make stupid sarcastic comments like you did above!!
Sure they will. There was a time, not too long ago, where the Majors were telecast, and not much else.
Not too long ago, eh? Please...tell us all when this was, can you? I want to have your knowledge.
Obviously, you couldn't handle my knowledge. You're having enough trouble with your own.
Gee, I wonder how I was able to watch tournaments back in the 70's on TV such as Greensboro, LA Open, Western Open, Tournament of Champions, The Nelson, Crosby, Gleason, Danny Thomas, Doral...etc..etc, ad nauseam?? I must be halucinating, because none of those are majors. Or maybe we don't see eye to eye on the meaning of...."not too long ago"?
First, I apologize for the post. It was supposed to be funny, it came off as just nasty.
Second, not too long ago, you saw final round coverage, for a few hours at best of the most popular tournaments. Not the weekend coverage for hours of virtually every tournament Tiger plays in and the spill over coverage of a number of tournaments he doesn't play in, because how players do in those tournaments has a bearing on Tiger, whether it be FedEx points or pairings in a match play event. We have access to Euro Tour events because those players also play Tiger and that generates interest. Ask any casual fan, and that fan will probably only be able to name players who give tiger a go but they will recognize both American and Euro players.
Like it or not, the coverage pre-Tiger was minimal and bordering on non-existent. It was nowhere near the kind of coverage that is available to us today. Hell, even the Master's only had coverage of holes 11-18 until 1993! During the 1980's golf reached an all time low, and most tournaments were not televised, or only the final round was televised, and that only in part.
The good news is that golf will always be on television as it is heavily subsidized by sponsors because golf attracts a "particular" market segment.
By the way, the historical data is actually from a 1994 study. I can't remember the name off hand, but if you think it is important I can track it down with a little work.
The fact is, the number of hours of golf coverage since Tiger arrived has nearly doubled, not including any pay per view type arrangements (are there any?).
Sure they will. There was a time, not too long ago, where the Majors were telecast, and not much else.
Not too long ago, eh? Please...tell us all when this was, can you? I want to have your knowledge.
Believe it or not, there was a time when...
Other than the majors, there were just a few selective tournaments throughout the year that were actually broadcast. And...
There was one Game of the Week for baseball on Saturday afternoon, and that was the only baseball game broadcast all week. And....
NFL football consisted of one game (or once the AFL came along, two games) on Sunday, if you were lucky, and one of them was your local, or most regional team. And....
March madness didn't exist, and only 16 teams qualified for the NCAA tournament (which was usually won by UCLA). Only the Final Four was broadcast nationally. And....
College football consisted on one Saturday afternoon game. And.....
NHL Hockey was never on TV. And.....
You are correct. You do wish you had his (or my) knowledge, and you would love to have our experience!!!! Then you might not make stupid sarcastic comments like you did above!!
Oh please....you're weak.
Brilliant response!!
Do you mean I'm wrong? (Which I'm not!)
Do you mean I don't have knowledge? (Which I do!)
Do you mean I don't have experience? (Ditto!)
Please elaborate on your brilliant four word response.
After you're done, I'll probably have a two word response for you!!
OMG the sky must be falling, Tiger lost. Very true that Tiger is THE REASON the PGA is what is it is today and that players are making the coin they do. With that said, I can not stand being force fed Tiger mania day in and day out. How long before The Golf Channel starts a countdown to Doral or Bay Hill? If the media would not cram Tiger down our throats and just cover the amazing things he does on the course, I think this entire discussion would go away. However, Tiger does sell and after all, none of the media outlets are not for profit the last time I checked. All I want to do is see good golf and if Tiger is in contention, then that is also good as it will continue to attract new people to the game!
I provided examples of tournaments consistantly shown on TV as early as the mid-70's I watched.....I left out many others. You haven't provided anything but a lot of talk.
Sure they will. There was a time, not too long ago, where the Majors were telecast, and not much else.
Not too long ago, eh? Please...tell us all when this was, can you? I want to have your knowledge.
Obviously, you couldn't handle my knowledge. You're having enough trouble with your own.
Gee, I wonder how I was able to watch tournaments back in the 70's on TV such as Greensboro, LA Open, Western Open, Tournament of Champions, The Nelson, Crosby, Gleason, Danny Thomas, Doral...etc..etc, ad nauseam?? I must be halucinating, because none of those are majors. Or maybe we don't see eye to eye on the meaning of...."not too long ago"?
First, I apologize for the post. It was supposed to be funny, it came off as just nasty.
Second, not too long ago, you saw final round coverage, for a few hours at best of the most popular tournaments. Not the weekend coverage for hours of virtually every tournament Tiger plays in and the spill over coverage of a number of tournaments he doesn't play in, because how players do in those tournaments has a bearing on Tiger, whether it be FedEx points or pairings in a match play event. We have access to Euro Tour events because those players also play Tiger and that generates interest. Ask any casual fan, and that fan will probably only be able to name players who give tiger a go but they will recognize both American and Euro players.
Like it or not, the coverage pre-Tiger was minimal and bordering on non-existent. It was nowhere near the kind of coverage that is available to us today. Hell, even the Master's only had coverage of holes 11-18 until 1993! During the 1980's golf reached an all time low, and most tournaments were not televised, or only the final round was televised, and that only in part.
The good news is that golf will always be on television as it is heavily subsidized by sponsors because golf attracts a "particular" market segment.
By the way, the historical data is actually from a 1994 study. I can't remember the name off hand, but if you think it is important I can track it down with a little work.
The fact is, the number of hours of golf coverage since Tiger arrived has nearly doubled, not including any pay per view type arrangements (are there any?).
No apology necessary. You were correct. The other poster was wrong.
And I love a debate....unfortunately, in such a case, Smitty appears to be unarmed!!
Sure they will. There was a time, not too long ago, where the Majors were telecast, and not much else.
Not too long ago, eh? Please...tell us all when this was, can you? I want to have your knowledge.
Obviously, you couldn't handle my knowledge. You're having enough trouble with your own.
Gee, I wonder how I was able to watch tournaments back in the 70's on TV such as Greensboro, LA Open, Western Open, Tournament of Champions, The Nelson, Crosby, Gleason, Danny Thomas, Doral...etc..etc, ad nauseam?? I must be halucinating, because none of those are majors. Or maybe we don't see eye to eye on the meaning of...."not too long ago"?
First, I apologize for the post. It was supposed to be funny, it came off as just nasty.
Second, not too long ago, you saw final round coverage, for a few hours at best of the most popular tournaments. Not the weekend coverage for hours of virtually every tournament Tiger plays in and the spill over coverage of a number of tournaments he doesn't play in, because how players do in those tournaments has a bearing on Tiger, whether it be FedEx points or pairings in a match play event. We have access to Euro Tour events because those players also play Tiger and that generates interest. Ask any casual fan, and that fan will probably only be able to name players who give tiger a go but they will recognize both American and Euro players.
Like it or not, the coverage pre-Tiger was minimal and bordering on non-existent. It was nowhere near the kind of coverage that is available to us today. Hell, even the Master's only had coverage of holes 11-18 until 1993! During the 1980's golf reached an all time low, and most tournaments were not televised, or only the final round was televised, and that only in part.
The good news is that golf will always be on television as it is heavily subsidized by sponsors because golf attracts a "particular" market segment.
By the way, the historical data is actually from a 1994 study. I can't remember the name off hand, but if you think it is important I can track it down with a little work.
The fact is, the number of hours of golf coverage since Tiger arrived has nearly doubled, not including any pay per view type arrangements (are there any?).
No apology necessary. You were correct. The other poster was wrong.
And I love a debate....unfortunately, in such a case, Smitty appears to be unarmed!!
Villegas vs. Ogilvy is really interesting. I think Rory/Villegas/Ogilvy vs. Phil would provide some entertainment as well. The other side of the bracket is going to be completely boring to the average guy. I don't care who emerges from the other side at all.
There are plenty of great scenarios left without the top four seeds and I'm glad I won't have to hear more Tiger talk. Way to go Tim Clark, you stepped up and played great golf.
Tim Clark rocked the house...if you are a Tiger lover then you have to give that dude props for bringing him down! Great tournament, and I love the fact that all the #1s are gone...it just illustrates hoew good these guys are!
Tim Clark rocked the house...if you are a Tiger lover then you have to give that dude props for bringing him down! Great tournament, and I love the fact that all the #1s are gone...it just illustrates hoew good these guys are!
All of the #1 seeds (Woods, Singh, Garcia, and Harrington) are all gone.
This is why the networks hate match play, because besides no Tiger for the weekend, no top players means much lower ratings.
Having said that, what do you guys see as the next most interesting / compelling story for the weekend??
Is it Mickelson in the finals?
What about Rory McElroy in the final pairing?
Just curious for opinions.
Tex...you and I are in the same age category. How'd you do in your match vs Old Tom Morris? He took me 10 and 8 and I did not talk any trash in the pub the night prior!
2) Damn I was pulling hard for Mahan...hate to see him bow out.
3) Camilo looks gooooood. He could very well win this thing!
4) I'm super pumped about the weekend telecasts now that I can see more than one player hit shots. I'm really excited to see more of McIlvoy, never really had a chance to see him play. I'd like to see what he's made of.
5) Speaking of McIlvoy...a Camilo/McIlvoy matchup would be sweet!
6) Go Boo...and Cink...and Leonard. Make 'US' proud boys!
i was just watching the highlights of clark and woods and i have to say tiger played like crap. i know it might just be rust but if it isnt(and everyone said he was better than ever last week) then i love the new tiger woods. i do think it is just rust but man he looked horrible.
In all honesty, no matter what any of us say, unless you work for the networks, is just a lot of hot air. Why worry about it unless you are actually going to do something about it. You guys remind me of those slow weekend players that stand on each teebox talking about golf and not playing it. As for the future of network broadcasts, it can go either way; they will go back to their "old" incomes and get really depressed and just end it, or they will get really depressed and try to move on. But, it won't be the same again until there is another Tiger...good luck with that.
I hate when you're watching the evening re-telecast of the matches, purposely staying away from any news sources throughout the day to keep the outcome unknown.....
....and Golf Channel gives the outcome during a commercial break.
I hate when you're watching the evening re-telecast of the matches, purposely staying away from any news sources throughout the day to keep the outcome unknown.....
....and Golf Channel gives the outcome during a commercial break.
I hate when you're watching the evening re-telecast of the matches, purposely staying away from any news sources throughout the day to keep the outcome unknown.....
....and Golf Channel gives the outcome during a commercial break.
Unreal.. I was just about to start a new thread on this topic.. Got home at 8 last night and was able to avoid all scores throughout the day.. Watch the first 5 holes of Tigers match and GC decides to run a intro to Golf Central talking about who is going to win now that Tiger is gone... GC.. Please dont do this if you are going to rebroadcast at night...
I love Tiger and all but with him out it is so much nicer watching the matches...not just Tiger teeing off, Tiger walking down the fairway, Tiger putting, Tiger walking to the next tee box.
Actually, I think for Els there is probably a mental side to Tigers return, and defeat that relaxes Els.
When Els is playing well, it seems the only thing that he can not get around is Tiger. For example, in Dubai, I think he was second behind Tiger, I think at 17 or 18 he had to decide whether to play high risk and try for number 1, or be a little more conservative and finish 2. Why does a guy like Els need to finish 2nd, so he goes for it, and finishes 5th. I think this took a toll on him mentally.
Seeing woods look a less dominant, this week, has to be a breath of fresh air for him. I mean, Els does not have to fear that situation all over again.
My point being that Tiger has to show us he can be tighter, and until he does the "Tiger effect", on more accomplished players, will be on the wane.
Actually, I think for Els there is probably a mental side to Tigers return, and defeat that relaxes Els.
When Els is playing well, it seems the only thing that he can not get around is Tiger. For example, in Dubai, I think he was second behind Tiger, I think at 17 or 18 he had to decide whether to play high risk and try for number 1, or be a little more conservative and finish 2. Why does a guy like Els need to finish 2nd, so he goes for it, and finishes 5th. I think this took a toll on him mentally.
Seeing woods look a less dominant, this week, has to be a breath of fresh air for him. I mean, Els does not have to fear that situation all over again.
My point being that Tiger has to show us he can be tighter, and until he does the "Tiger effect", on more accomplished players, will be on the wane.
Got a question for you - of Mickelson, Vijay, whoever you want and Ernie Els, which player has been paired with Tiger more as a competitor?
It's Els - the others aren't close
What that tells me is that Ernie wants that pairing more than anyone else. I do agree with your take on the shot at Dubai. He didn't care about finishing 5th. He wanted Tiger on a platter.
And that is diametrically opposed to someone having Tiger in his head or fear or any of that pscho BS - Els is here to play to win.
Not buying that media created psycho BS
Els has more of his wins with Tiger in the field than Mickelson and Singh too.
....which player has been paired with Tiger more as a competitor?
It's Els - the others aren't close
I do agree with your take on the shot at Dubai. He didn't care about finishing 5th. He wanted Tiger on a platter.
And that is diametrically opposed to someone having Tiger in his head or fear or any of that pscho BS - Els is here to play to win.
Not buying that media created psycho BS
In general I agree with you about the psycho nonsense, but it seemed to me that Dubai incident was special in that is was Tiger closing the Tiger/Els chapter. Don't get me wrong, I'm not downing Els, and I like them both, but it struck me as odd that Els had his mental coach with him for what seemed like every shot as he was closing out the Honda. A guy who wins majors should not need his hand held to win an event that is so small by comparison. Don't get me wrong, I don't think less of Els for doing it, but it just seemed like he was coming from a bad place to do that.
I do think the media makes more of the Tiger effect than other players, but he was starting to look so dominant just before his injury.
I think the real takeaway on the Tiger effect is how is TW going to deal with getting old. And I think there is a stable of older seasoned players who know how to deal with this, and I'm not sure TW has figured it out yet. I agree with you I’m sure Els and Phil, are chomping at the bit.
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tbowles411, on Feb 26 2009, 04:10 PM, said:
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Posted 26 February 2009 - 11:55 PM
