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Is the Golf Swing nothing more than a Baseball Swing...bent over..??


63 replies to this topic

#1 Parzinski

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 10:44 PM

Hogan


Ted Williams



Looking at the clip of Hogan demonstrating his move...looks a lot like Williams...except in right handed...

Is the golf swing the same as a baseball swing...with a little more bend at the waist?


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#2 Richie3Jack

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 10:59 PM

View PostParzinski, on Feb 21 2009, 10:44 PM, said:

Hogan


Ted Williams



Looking at the clip of Hogan demonstrating his move...looks a lot like Williams...except in right handed...

Is the golf swing the same as a baseball swing...with a little more bend at the waist?

No.

In the baseball swing, you're trying to throw the barrel of the bat out at the ball.  You do the exact opposite with the golf swing.  So if you're in a batting cage, try to feel like you are casting the bat and trying to hit a big banana slice.  

Some of the movements are very similar, such as starting the downswing from the ground up, but they really are not the same stroke.




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#3 CenterOfPercussion

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 11:19 PM

I would say they are pretty similar.

Weight shifting is more pronounced in baseball swing, usually.

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#4 Parzinski

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 11:30 PM

View PostRichie3Jack, on Feb 21 2009, 10:59 PM, said:

View PostParzinski, on Feb 21 2009, 10:44 PM, said:

Hogan


Ted Williams



Looking at the clip of Hogan demonstrating his move...looks a lot like Williams...except in right handed...

Is the golf swing the same as a baseball swing...with a little more bend at the waist?

No.

In the baseball swing, you're trying to throw the barrel of the bat out at the ball.  You do the exact opposite with the golf swing.  So if you're in a batting cage, try to feel like you are casting the bat and trying to hit a big banana slice.  

Some of the movements are very similar, such as starting the downswing from the ground up, but they really are not the same stroke.




3JACK

Don't see any casting of the barrel here....




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#5 Jaylasvegas

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 11:34 PM

View PostParzinski, on Feb 22 2009, 12:30 AM, said:

View PostRichie3Jack, on Feb 21 2009, 10:59 PM, said:

View PostParzinski, on Feb 21 2009, 10:44 PM, said:

Hogan


Ted Williams



Looking at the clip of Hogan demonstrating his move...looks a lot like Williams...except in right handed...

Is the golf swing the same as a baseball swing...with a little more bend at the waist?

No.

In the baseball swing, you're trying to throw the barrel of the bat out at the ball.  You do the exact opposite with the golf swing.  So if you're in a batting cage, try to feel like you are casting the bat and trying to hit a big banana slice.  

Some of the movements are very similar, such as starting the downswing from the ground up, but they really are not the same stroke.




3JACK

Don't see any casting of the barrel here....



awesome picture
what I notice in that and many good ball strikers is the extension and the hanging back a bit thru impact


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#6 gators78

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 11:51 PM

From what I've read I thought that batters are supposed to "lag" the bat because the more they can do that the easier it is to catch up to fast balls, or I should say harder for a fast ball to get past the batter.  Even if you take it to the level of physics, it would make no sense that in baseball you would try to 'cast' the bat because you're just wasting energy.    

I totally agree that its just a baseball swing bent over.
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#7 Richie3Jack

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 01:09 AM

View PostParzinski, on Feb 21 2009, 11:30 PM, said:

Don't see any casting of the barrel here....


Attachment ted.jpg

You're not looking at it correctly.  Williams obviously pivoted, but he's also throwing the barrel at the ball.  The pivot in the baseball swing is much more pronounced (unless you're Bubba Watson), but Ted is definitely throwing the barrel of the bat at the ball.  If he did this with the golf swing, he'd hit a big banana slice.




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#8 mkrolewski

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 01:18 AM

Most swings have to share common elements, as the body is constructed a specific way.

Baseball, tennis, badminton and racket ball all share some common elements.

Obviously the baseball and golf swing are attempting to accelerate the bat/club by swinging the arms and then the wrists to give the bat/ball the highest acceleration/velocity.

There are significant differences.

For baseball, there is the obvious difference of attempting to swing where the ball is. The swing is more explosive -- less time to decide where to swing and when. The bat is heavier and move difficult to bring around. One starts with bent elbows and the bat vertically positioned. The starting turn is smaller, again constrained by swing decision and timing. A good baseball swing has a relatively long period when the bat is "blocking" or moving flat along the estimated path of the pitched ball. This period is much longer than a golf swing contact time. Some of the velocity of the ball is the reflection of the pitch velocity. Hence why knuckle balls are not hit as far.


To hit a zero velocity ball, the batter switches to a fungo bat -- longer, lighter, narrower, which is often struck one handed, using a whipping motion, more similar to golf motion -- arms fully extended, etc. Generally the back swing is still smaller. The swing is often upward. Since the ball is moving slowly, typically up and down, and the throw is known, it is easier to find the right timing.

In addition, the bat has no "face". Partial or incomplete swings can redirect the ball into the field of play.

The golf swing does not need to be as explosive as one decides when to start the swing and can optimize the swing path. The golf club is lighter and depending on the club, longer than a bat. The goal is to present maximum acceleration at the moment of contact. You do not need any repositioning of the ball or make swing adjustments. The golf swing uses maximum extension of arm to increase the velocity / acceleration. Doing less is wasting potential energy.

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#9 Jeff Evans

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 08:00 AM

View PostParzinski, on Feb 21 2009, 10:44 PM, said:

Hogan


Ted Williams



Looking at the clip of Hogan demonstrating his move...looks a lot like Williams...except in right handed...

Is the golf swing the same as a baseball swing...with a little more bend at the waist?

Similar in many ways. I have worked with batting instructors that say take the handle to the ball or hands to the ball let the barrel follow. I shared the Pure Ball Striker with Chili Davis at the 2008 FBR Open and I wanted to talk baseball he wanted to talk golf anyway Chili supports these concepts hands to the ball.

Mr. Hogan was a big fan of Ted and observed Mr. Williams hitting motion for many years and noticed the similarities.

Also, many local softball and baseball teams use the Pure Ball Striker. One fellow in a softball tournament went 26 for 28 in home runs.

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#10 tmfool

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 08:24 AM

williams and hogan both used the same swing key --- clearing out the front hip.

not many have been able to match their level of genius in either sport.

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#11 IH82BOGEY

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 08:46 AM

This may sound silly at first but in the golf swing the ball is in the way as the club head travels in an arc from inside  to online then back to inside.  You dont try to hit at the ball as the club is on the target line for just a fraction of a second.  In baseball you are trying to drive the ball forward on the target line back from where it came from.  I learned to play baseball years before I learned golf and have had to retrain my mind to keep from swinging down the line and flipping at the golf ball in an effort to drive it at the target line.  I think the body movements are similar except way more ponounced and down the line in baseball.

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#12 FlyingWedge

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 01:28 PM

Similatities yes baseball played on a horizontal plane golf on a inclined plane. Ted williams could not hit one pitch low and outside his avg .186 on that type of pitch why it would require angled hinging to make contact. Rick Rhoden ex baseball player now on senior tour. Baseball players understand the pivot motion very well. There's hitters and swingers of the baseball swing as well.

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#13 DaveLeeNC

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 05:52 PM

There is another interesting difference between hitting a golf ball with a golf club and a baseball with a bat. A golf shaft is not strong enough to apply any meaningful force at impact. However a baseball bat is (I would assume). So steroid enhanced forearms/wrists are quite helpful in hitting a baseball with a bat. Much less so in golf.

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Edited by DaveLeeNC, 22 February 2009 - 05:53 PM.


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#14 metrybill

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 06:43 AM

David Ledbetter thinks there are enough similarities between the baseball swing and the golf swing that he made a video of a golf drill employing the baseball swing. Who are we to argue?

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#15 ebk

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 09:17 PM

Don't know the answer to your question (I think they are very similar), but it reminds me of story about Sam Snead and Ted Williams arguing about whether hitting golf ball or baseball was more difficult.  Teddy Ballgame said Sam had it easier because the ball wasn't moving.  Sam told Ted baseball was easier because Ted din't have to play his foul balls.


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#16 jafstar

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 10:37 AM

No, in fact the golf swing is neither like the baseball swing or hockey swing.

In fact it's not really a swing at all, but rather more of a "fling".

It's kinda funny but the closest thing to a golf swing I've seen recently is an "ice skaters jump and twirl".

Imagine trying to push off the ground and spinning, that's a good golf swing surprisingly.

When you do this the hips control the swing and everything else kinda clicks into place...
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#17 Jules Winnfield

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 11:02 AM

They are definitely similar but not as much as you would think. I'm a baseball player at heart, played traveling ball for 10 years and golf and baseball swings are a bit different. I personally find hitting a 90 mph baseball easier than hitting a golf ball believe it or not. I would say the golf swing is more like a pitcher in baseball though, hints why most pitchers are damn good golfers as well. The golf swing is almost identical to a pitching motion, especially sidearm pitching.

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#18 bph7

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 11:13 AM

Seriously, unless you were a really good baseball player, who cares?  I don't really know how to swing a baseball bat proficiently, so even if the golf swing were like a baseball swing but bent over, why does it help?  Seems like we are just adding another layer of compilation:  we need to learn how to swing a baseball bat then transfer that to golf. Why not just learn to swing the golf club and forget baseball (unless, of course, you were a really good hitter in baseball).

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#19 glcoach

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 12:16 PM

Dragging the hands in any sport is ruinous.  

Baseball is different because of no face control.  I know a lot of baseball players that can hit it 330 but also 250 to the right.

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#20 GaryRead

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 01:23 PM

Macro mechanics you would think would be similar as the general motions have a similar objective of propelling an object with the body and tool.

However I think the small nuances and micro movements would differ when you get to the proficient levels of either of the 2 activities as you have different variables like club face angles and lofts, angle of attack etc.


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#21 Timanator

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 02:15 PM

Except the tip of your bat has to brush the wall in the exact spot everytime.
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#22 Gautama

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 08:20 PM

I think there are definitely a lot of similarities. It's pretty much the same "ground up"  sequence of shift, hips, shoulders, arms etc. The language instructors use is a lot the same too, fire the hips, shallow the club/bat, don't cast/throw away bat/club lag, hit though the ball.  Seems like so many great batters just smoke it off the tee right when they take up the game too.

This is kind of a perfect question for Monte Scheinblum really, would love hear what he thinks.

Edited by Gautama, 09 December 2015 - 08:22 PM.


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#23 Gautama

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 08:58 PM

Just went to watch the Ted Williams video and realized this thread was 6 years old :). Here's another clip, looks like the one in the OP was taken down



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#24 MonteScheinblum

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 10:53 PM

A lot of the same intents and many of the same flaws develop when you get out of position.

The body is reacting to a different object, so it's not perfect.

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#25 Santiago Golf

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 04:18 PM

View Postjafstar, on 08 December 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

No, in fact the golf swing is neither like the baseball swing or hockey swing.

In fact it's not really a swing at all, but rather more of a "fling".

It's kinda funny but the closest thing to a golf swing I've seen recently is an "ice skaters jump and twirl".

Imagine trying to push off the ground and spinning, that's a good golf swing surprisingly.

When you do this the hips control the swing and everything else kinda clicks into place...


Posted Image

Posted Image

They look very similar to me.

Football, Soccer, Hockey, Lacrosse, baseball, and golf. They all have the same hip movement through the swing/throw/kick, if you really think about

I play hockey and golf growing up. There is similarity.

When pass in hockey, you use soft handess; similar to chipping in golf
When shoot in hockey, you fire the lower body; similar to golf

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#26 psapitch13

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 04:26 PM

The grip alone makes it so much different.

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#27 MizunoJoe

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 02:46 PM

Mantle's golf swing and bb swing were very similar.  X factor and shoulder throw after a lateral shift unweighted the club/bat.  I saw MM play golf in the late 70's at the Roy Clark tourney in Broken Arrow, OK, and his golf swing looked like he was making a bb swing at a sinker in the dirt, but without lifting the left foot off the ground.  In the 90's, his coach, Malcolm Smith, told me he swung the clubhead faster than his then current student, Sean Pfister, and told me he was with Mantle in 1980, when he became the only man, am or pro, to drive the 357 yd 10th hole at Southern Hills and he was using persimmon and a Titleist 100 balata, a record which stood til broken in 2007 PGA Championship with titanium and a hot ball.

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Here's the only vid of Mick's golf swing I can find, but remember, he died only a couple mos later, and this swing was made without a functioning liver.

https://www.youtube....h?v=6Dj9U3umqBE

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#28 avrag

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 02:54 PM

In my experience the "bent over" part is the difficult bit. It is much easier to shift weight and rotate, when you are standing upright.
I see a gap. There definitely is a gap.

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#29 dap

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 08:01 PM

In golf,the ball is on the ground. To make it a baseball swing,you would need to be bent over at the hips more than 45 degrees which nobody does. Not even Hogan describes the golf swing as being like a baseball swing.

There is always going to be an up and down element to the golf swing in even the flattest of swings. In fact,there is a good argument that a more upright up and down swing is better because there is less arm rotation involved in squaring the face. The flatter your swing, the more you need to rotate the arms on the downswing to square the face and not everyone has this rotational skill. In baseball, there is no need for arm rotation because there is no need to square up a round bat.


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#30 eak185

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 02:29 PM

If the 2 were the same, then why wasn't Hogan batting clean up for the Yankees? Great golfers can't hit a baseball to nearly the same capacity as a golf ball.


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