[arkstorm]

Notwithstanding the fact that a win is a win is a win and a paycheck is a paycheck, would you say that Dustin Johnson's victory at the ATT this weekend is diminished due to the cancellation of the fourth round?

I think he played lights out in taking a four shot margin into the clubhouse after the third round, but as an athlete and a golfer, does it make the win a little less sweet when it comes without having to protect that lead and ward off the competition on the final day at Pebble?

What are your thoughts?

[Nadir]

yes, especially because there were guys on his heels.

[ricar1610]

I'm sure he would prefer to finish the final round, but there is nothing he can do about it and he played the best golf for 3 days. He got himself into that position and he deserves it. It is not ideal, but 54 holes is a lot of golf. It is anti-climatic but official. It's the same as the Nascar race too or a baseball game called after 5 innings - it is not great but at least it is official.

[InTheHole]

I do not think his win is diminished. All the players had the same number of holes/rounds to get into the lead, and they all knew the weather forecast. The fact that they couldn't do it says they don't get to win.

The fourth round was cancelled in accordance with the rules and given the conditions it made perfect sense. The rules were also known up front by all players.

Hey, these are the things that happen when you deal with a sport that is played outdoors, especially on such a large venue as a golf course. You can't enclose it, and you can't effectively light it so it could be played at night. You have to live with what mother nature provides.

The Daytona 500 was also a shortened event this past weekend... a win is a win.

Johnson did say he would have preferred to win in 4 rounds instead of 3, but that does not take away from the fact that he earned the "W" (and the $$$).

[pickerjohn]

Any Pro that plays or has played a Tournament at Pebble Beach
this time of year knows the importance of having a 54 hole lead.
And he led by 4, so good for him, in no way diminished for me.

[Johnny]

no because in a few years nobody will remember it was shortened anyways.

[Simp]

A win is a win.

[MCCA]

Simp, on Feb 17 2009, 03:45 PM, said:

A win is a win.

I second that

[The Boom Bapp]

Johnson played more then half the tourny and give him credit for besting the field in a 54 hole instead of 72. A win is a win and despite who it was in contention they failed to capture the lead.

Same thing happened at the Daytona 500 last night and when the race was over and all was said and done, the leader is always the Winner.

[flugelwood]

Yes, I think there is an " * " on that one, as there should be on any weather shortened event...

As Rollins proved last week and we see every year...a multiple stroke cushin at the 54 hole mark is far from a sure thing...

That being said congrats Dustin, you have accomplished far more more in your golfing career than most ever will...

[italianstallion]

His win isn't diminished, he gets the trophy and the check.

I know the tour has a schedule to keep but I like seeing things finish. Again, its like the Daytona 500 being cut short, we have a winner but it doesn't feel done.

[AM92318]

I don't think it's diminished, everybody else played 3 rounds like he did and he had the best score. The only thing disappointing to me again is the PGA scheduling, every year Torrey Pines, Pebble Beach, and Riviera are played way too early in the season. PGA needs to switch the Florida and the west coast swing.

[hef63303]

A win is a win. Everyone had an equal chance. He played 4 strokes better than anyone else.

[Out In Par]

Non complete tournament win is a diminished win. I remember a few years ago an LPGA Tournament got called after day one, the 9 hole leader won. If that would have happened at the 97 Masters, this guy named Tiger would not hold the record for youngest to win the masters or a major.

[gregcindyh]

I thought about that also, what if? I think part of the PGA is the final day...that's when reality sets in for the leader, nerves, other players scracthing there way up the leader board. We'll never know. Good for him!

[Titleist1455]

Out In Par, on Feb 17 2009, 06:08 PM, said:

Non complete tournament win is a diminished win. I remember a few years ago an LPGA Tournament got called after day one, the 9 hole leader won. If that would have happened at the 97 Masters, this guy named Tiger would not hold the record for youngest to win the masters or a major.

no, that's not at all the same thing. 9 hole leader...54 hole leader

DJ's win is completely legit. This has happened before, why are people acting like this is some unofficial win all of the sudden?

and i would venture to say that what you said about the LPGA tournament is not even true?? how could they determine the 9 hole leader?? had the players not played different number of holes??

[poppyhillsguy]

Yes, it's diminished. He also got lucky on the course rotation playing the easiest course on a windy day. Poppy is the only course of the three with all 18 holes protected by the forest from the wind.

[Dizzub]

poppyhillsguy, on Feb 17 2009, 08:07 PM, said:

Yes, it's diminished. He also got lucky on the course rotation playing the easiest course on a windy day. Poppy is the only course of the three with all 18 holes protected by the forest from the wind.

Yea whatever, he was leading by 4...not diminished.

[Simp]

Titleist1455, on Feb 17 2009, 07:27 PM, said:

and i would venture to say that what you said about the LPGA tournament is not even true?? how could they determine the 9 hole leader?? had the players not played different number of holes??

I was thinking the same thing. They would simply pospone or cancel the tournament if it was that bad from the start. There's no way the LPGA crowned a winner after only 9 holes.

[CaliWagon]

ricar1610, on Feb 17 2009, 01:20 PM, said:

I'm sure he would prefer to finish the final round, but there is nothing he can do about it and he played the best golf for 3 days. He got himself into that position and he deserves it. It is not ideal, but 54 holes is a lot of golf. It is anti-climatic but official. It's the same as the Nascar race too or a baseball game called after 5 innings - it is not great but at least it is official.

+1

He played the best golf over the time that was played, give him credit for that.

[scotchblade]

Yes, a win is a win, he deserved it. I don't think the win is diminished, but I do think the experience and confidence he would have gained from going out and finishing the job on Sunday certainly was. Instead of "I did it!" he's left to wonder.

[hbear]

I could be wrong, but since it was a win during a shortened event he doesn't get a free pass to Kapalua in 2010, nor does he get the 1 year tour exemption that comes with a win.

Unless they changed that rule recently?

However he does collect the cash so chances are he's not going to be struggling to keep his card for next year.

[stage1350]

I'd say it was actually enhanced. He got the same amount of money for 54 holes of work instead of 72.

[RighttoLeft]

stage1350, on Feb 18 2009, 08:28 AM, said:

I'd say it was actually enhanced. He got the same amount of money for 54 holes of work instead of 72.

I like that attitude!

[KF_Tower]

hbear, on Feb 18 2009, 01:48 AM, said:

I could be wrong, but since it was a win during a shortened event he doesn't get a free pass to Kapalua in 2010, nor does he get the 1 year tour exemption that comes with a win.

Unless they changed that rule recently?

However he does collect the cash so chances are he's not going to be struggling to keep his card for next year.

Have not heard that before. It is a two year exemption for a win.
DJ will have more opps this year; good player who is finally putting in the time to work on his game.

[opus_mh]

i am pretty sure phil won the same way a few years back and no one is putting an * beside his win total. Win is a win and the kid had a 4 shot lead. I got to see him play when i was in college and everyone knew he was the real deal. They didn't cut the purse by 25% so i say good for him.

Cheers
Scott

[wwhitehead]

He hit the ball fewer times than every other player in the field.

Threads like this one are ridiculous.

WW

[heddp]

I say yes diminished - rallies happen late and thats when he proves himself that he can fend it off and take the pressure. He probably would have won anyways but I know quite a few playoff games in any sport where if the 4th quarter or last 5 minutes didnt happen...but hey a win is a win. He was obviously happy about it, but also you could see he really wanted to WIN it.

[Subsonic]

It doesn't matter how you got the ball, RUN WITH IT!! :-)

The win is legit.

[oldironman]

A 54 hole tournament is considered official, he gets a 2 year pass and a trip to the Mercedes next year. When Adam Scott won in LA a couple of years ago it was only 36 holes and not an official win. Bad weather can affect a golf tournament anytime. The PGA will do everything possible to get in at least 54 holes. Granted many things can happen in the final round but he won according to the rules, so he will be forever known as the 2009 AT&T champion.

[AcesAZ]

oldironman, on Feb 18 2009, 09:05 PM, said:

A 54 hole tournament is considered official, he gets a 2 year pass and a trip to the Mercedes next year. When Adam Scott won in LA a couple of years ago it was only 36 holes and not an official win. Bad weather can affect a golf tournament anytime. The PGA will do everything possible to get in at least 54 holes. Granted many things can happen in the final round but he won according to the rules, so he will be forever known as the 2009 AT&T champion.

Hmmm, yeah I was thining about Adam Scotts win but was thinking that one was also 54 not 36.

Yes its diminished, but not alot. Pressure of having to finish the tourney off on Sunday is half the battle. He didnt have to do that, therefore its diminished.

[steverum]

It is official so I would say no it is not diminished.

However, if Tiger is not in the field then maybe the win is diminished a little in that way.

He gets into the Masters and the US Open because of it, so I doubt cares too much

[tbowles411]

54 holes is an official event. It's not diminished for me. It shouldn't be for him either.

[Jer-Jer]

I don't know...I just don't see them as equal because he didn't have to deal with the final round pressure where anything can happen. Yeah he played 3 great rounds but I believe the real pressure doesn't show up until Sunday. Just my opinion.

[scotchblade]

Jer-Jer, on Feb 18 2009, 10:45 PM, said:

I don't know...I just don't see them as equal because he didn't have to deal with the final round pressure where anything can happen. Yeah he played 3 great rounds but I believe the real pressure doesn't show up until Sunday. Just my opinion.

I'm with you. It is often said winning breeds confidence, how you need to learn to win. Dustin, who is looking like a fine player with one win already under his belt, missed out on the experience of going out on Sunday and getting the job done. Putting yourself in a position to win after 54 holes and being handed the trophy is not the same as coming out on top after 72. Mentally. And golf is a mental game, right? Sure, it's a win in the record books, but I'm sure there is an asterisk beside it in his golfing mind.

[InTheHole]

I think there was actually twice the pressure in this event... they all knew the weather forecast, so there was the pressure that the non-leaders had that they would possibly not have Sunday to make up ground on the leader- they only had 18 holes to do it on Saturday.

The leader had the pressure that the non-leaders were trying to make up the difference in one day.

I still don't see how a win could be diminished when it was within the rules, when everyone knew the weather forecast, and when they were all playing under the same conditions.

If you said maybe that it rained in the afternoon and the morning players had a clean playing field but the afternoon rounds didn't... but that wasn't the case. The weather was equally crappy for everyone.

The argument that guys didn't have the extra round to rally can be made in any golf tournament... if we add a fifth round to every tournament then the list of winners through history would be different.

Fact is, the rules say 4 rounds... and the rules also say that if you cancel the 4th round due to weather, the 54 hole leader is the winner. Seems black and white to me. Official is official according to the rules.

[DemolitionMan]

I don't think Dustin Johnson or any other tour player would feel it is diminished. As if they control the weather....the tour has a choice, do everything they can to have a fair event given the challenges of the weather or shorten the tournament. Not to mention the safety of the fans involved. While some of us would think how fun it would be to see pros challenged by 60 mph gusts and sideways rain, the novelty wears off pretty quickly and had they played a 4th round in horrid conditions, then even more people would call the win "diminished". So let's just appreciate what Dustin did for three rounds and leave 'diminished' out of it - it's really poor taste.

Now if we are talking NASCAR, yes, a win at Daytona at 150 laps because of rain (estimate) is diminished. If the mega budget teams of F1 and their fans can grind it out in the rain and keep the race going, then the pansies who drive in an oval can figure it out. Change the tires and drive on.

[Jer-Jer]

DemolitionMan, on Feb 19 2009, 12:05 PM, said:

I don't think Dustin Johnson or any other tour player would feel it is diminished. As if they control the weather....the tour has a choice, do everything they can to have a fair event given the challenges of the weather or shorten the tournament. Not to mention the safety of the fans involved. While some of us would think how fun it would be to see pros challenged by 60 mph gusts and sideways rain, the novelty wears off pretty quickly and had they played a 4th round in horrid conditions, then even more people would call the win "diminished". So let's just appreciate what Dustin did for three rounds and leave 'diminished' out of it - it's really poor taste.

Now if we are talking NASCAR, yes, a win at Daytona at 150 laps because of rain (estimate) is diminished. If the mega budget teams of F1 and their fans can grind it out in the rain and keep the race going, then the pansies who drive in an oval can figure it out. Change the tires and drive on.

I don't see how NASCAR and golf are any different. Both didn't complete the scheduled amount of competition. I'm not saying his win is "diminished." I just don't see the win as the same as a 72 hole event that's all. And I'm not saying he's not a good player either.

[Jer-Jer]

InTheHole, on Feb 19 2009, 08:26 AM, said:

I think there was actually twice the pressure in this event... they all knew the weather forecast, so there was the pressure that the non-leaders had that they would possibly not have Sunday to make up ground on the leader- they only had 18 holes to do it on Saturday.

The leader had the pressure that the non-leaders were trying to make up the difference in one day.

I still don't see how a win could be diminished when it was within the rules, when everyone knew the weather forecast, and when they were all playing under the same conditions.

If you said maybe that it rained in the afternoon and the morning players had a clean playing field but the afternoon rounds didn't... but that wasn't the case. The weather was equally crappy for everyone.

The argument that guys didn't have the extra round to rally can be made in any golf tournament... if we add a fifth round to every tournament then the list of winners through history would be different.

Fact is, the rules say 4 rounds... and the rules also say that if you cancel the 4th round due to weather, the 54 hole leader is the winner. Seems black and white to me. Official is official according to the rules.

No one is saying it isn't official. I'm just saying I don't consider the 54 hole win the same as a 72 hole win. And the 5th round argument isn't an argument. Because everyone knows there are 4 rounds and they expect to play 4 rounds. There are countless examples on tour of the 54 hole leader not winning the tournament.

[InTheHole]

Jer-Jer, on Feb 19 2009, 01:36 PM, said:

No one is saying it isn't official. I'm just saying I don't consider the 54 hole win the same as a 72 hole win. And the 5th round argument isn't an argument. Because everyone knows there are 4 rounds and they expect to play 4 rounds. There are countless examples on tour of the 54 hole leader not winning the tournament.

My point with the 5th round was just that- you can make the argument that anything other than 4 rounds would have a different leader (possibly). I wasn't suggesting we start adding rounds to tournaments.

Everyone also knows that if it rains cats and dogs, we're only playing 3 rounds- they all know that going in. So saying everyone expects to play 4 rounds is inaccurate and incomplete- everyone expects to play four rounds, weather permitting.