[fishlips723]

This is not What Tiger had suggested.His suggestion was that a regular Joe schmo 10 Handicapper couldn't break a 100 at a US Open ready golf course (Oakmont to be exact) from the back tees.

But Golf Digest doesn't follow the rules of the Challenge.They took 3 celebrities and a vet.

Dallas quarterback Romo, a 2.2 USGA Handicap Index,. Lauer, a 6.2, Timberlake, a 6.0 handicap, Atkinson only non-famous person and an 8.1 handicap.

Not a single person was a 10.As many as you guys know there is a huge difference between 8 to 10 handicappers and 2 to 5 handicappers.Both groups are relatively good ball stickers,but 2-5 handicappers have much better short game which is what you need at a US Open.Look at last years results,Romo shoots a 84-85,Lauer as a 6 handicap shoots a 100,Timberlake another 6 handicapper shoots a 99 and Atkinson the only non-celeb with an 8 index shoots a 114.
So what do you think,a legit 10 handicapper would shoot 120 from the back tees?

This year Jordan is participating and Timberlake is coming back with Third celeb to be announced.Jordan at one point was a 1 handicap and Timberlake I think is a 3 or a 4 now,a far cry from a 10.So we may never have the anwser (unless ofcourse if they pick me)

[tbhuskie8]

I applied last year and made it to the one of the final stages of choosing a person. I was a little confused that they included me in that group since I was a 2 at the time. I'm a 4 now but I do think they should be a little more strict on choosing someone is a 10 since that is what Tiger said.

[Marrrk]

and dont forget, timberlake was sick as a dog last year.

i think the moral is that Tiger was just talking off the cuff and 10 is probably the wrong over/under if we're being totally honest. i think last year proves that your average 10, unless he is having the day of his life, is not breaking 100 under Open conditions. and who wants to see a bunch of 10 cappers shooting 110-120 out there? thats not very fun to watch. maybe if Tiger had it to say again he would say a 6 or 7 couldnt break 100, makes it a bit more interesting.

[fishlips723]

and who wants to see a bunch of 10 cappers shooting 110-120 out there? thats not very fun to watch. maybe if Tiger had it to say again he would say a 6 or 7 couldnt break 100, makes it a bit more interesting.
[/quote]

I dont think Tiger was thinking about the entertainment value of it,I think he was thinking purely the challenge of a 10 handicapper trying to break 100 at a US Open.

[Marrrk]

fishlips723, on Jan 22 2009, 12:27 PM, said:

and who wants to see a bunch of 10 cappers shooting 110-120 out there? thats not very fun to watch. maybe if Tiger had it to say again he would say a 6 or 7 couldnt break 100, makes it a bit more interesting.


I dont think Tiger was thinking about the entertainment value of it,I think he was thinking purely the challenge of a 10 handicapper trying to break 100 at a US Open.

if you're going to quote me dont cut out the part where i say he was talking off the cuff, which means that i agree with you. i know he was just riffing on the challenge. that was my whole point.

[Flames20]

Isn't a 8.1 index a 10 handicapper??

[InTheHole]

fishlips723, on Jan 22 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

Not a single person was a 10.As many as you guys know there is a huge difference between 8 to 10 handicappers and 2 to 5 handicappers.Both groups are relatively good ball stickers,but 2-5 handicappers have much better short game which is what you need at a US Open.Look at last years results,Romo shoots a 84-85,Lauer as a 6 handicap shoots a 100,Timberlake another 6 handicapper shoots a 99 and Atkinson the only non-celeb with an 8 index shoots a 114.
So what do you think,a legit 10 handicapper would shoot 120 from the back tees?

So isn't that the point? Tiger was saying that a 10 couldn't shoot 100. All of these guys were better than a 10 and two of them did it and two didn't. The 6 shot a 100... the 8 shot a 114. And you're suggesting that a legit 10 would shoot 120.

As an engineer I believe the test proved the hypothesis. From those results I conclude that Tiger was right, a 10 couldn't break 100 under US Open conditions.

I guess you could limit contest entries to people who could prove their handicap index is 10... but you would severely limit the contest entries and that results in less publicity... which is really the whole point of the exercise.

[Simp]

Golf Digest should've grabbed a 10 handicap player and played the day after the US Open when it was held at Oakmont, not Torey Pines. Torey Pines is no Oakmont.

[ZBigStick]

Flames20, on Jan 22 2009, 01:08 PM, said:

Isn't a 8.1 index a 10 handicapper??

You are probably correct. A 8.1 index playing from the Open tees with a high slope and course rating would probably equate to a 10-11hdcp.

[Ronzo]

ZBigStick, on Jan 22 2009, 01:15 PM, said:

Flames20, on Jan 22 2009, 01:08 PM, said:

Isn't a 8.1 index a 10 handicapper??

You are probably correct. A 8.1 index playing from the Open tees with a high slope and course rating would probably equate to a 10-11hdcp.

Bethpage Black's slope from the Championship tees is listed at 148. Therefore, a course handicap of 10 equates to a USGA handicap Index of 7.3 to 8.0.

I'm certain that the Bethpage Black slope would be determined to be higher under US Open conditions, possibly the maximum of 155. At 155 slope, a course handicap of 10 equates to a USGA handicap Index of 7.0 to 7.6.

[Marrrk]

InTheHole, on Jan 22 2009, 01:11 PM, said:

fishlips723, on Jan 22 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

Not a single person was a 10.As many as you guys know there is a huge difference between 8 to 10 handicappers and 2 to 5 handicappers.Both groups are relatively good ball stickers,but 2-5 handicappers have much better short game which is what you need at a US Open.Look at last years results,Romo shoots a 84-85,Lauer as a 6 handicap shoots a 100,Timberlake another 6 handicapper shoots a 99 and Atkinson the only non-celeb with an 8 index shoots a 114.
So what do you think,a legit 10 handicapper would shoot 120 from the back tees?

So isn't that the point? Tiger was saying that a 10 couldn't shoot 100. All of these guys were better than a 10 and two of them did it and two didn't. The 6 shot a 100... the 8 shot a 114. And you're suggesting that a legit 10 would shoot 120.

As an engineer I believe the test proved the hypothesis. From those results I conclude that Tiger was right, a 10 couldn't break 100 under US Open conditions.

I guess you could limit contest entries to people who could prove their handicap index is 10... but you would severely limit the contest entries and that results in less publicity... which is really the whole point of the exercise.

that's totally the point. but moving forward, now we have to factor entertainment value into the GD challenge. and i think that's where everything changes. i would think the producers want to see a couple people right on the cusp, battling to break 100. because that's where the most drama is. and i have to think they are also happy throwing a celebrity ringer in there like Romo just to show what a scratch-ish, non-touring pro would do. so i can appreciate where they are coming from from a TV entertainment standpoint.

[fishlips723]

I understood it differently.Originally when Tiger came up with the idea (by accident),he was discussing how difficult conditions were at Oakmont that day.The way I took it was that if a Joe Schmo golfer with a 10 handicap when playing at his normal Muni golf course; could not break a 100 at Oakmonts conditions for that weekend.

So I was thinking that they would take 12-16 golfers with normal handicaps between 9-11 and allow them to play the course the Monday after the Championship.

The current format was only conjured up because of TV.But I say to h^ll with TV,no one is going to watch it anyway.Heck no one watches the pros on TV if Tiger isn't playing,why would they watch some hack taking 6 shots to come out of the rough?

But it would make a great 5-6 page article for their magazine.You can follow these 12-16 guys journey there and write about their rounds.

Another thing we should concider is this;100 to Tiger is like a 1000 to us.Most pros cant even imagine a round in mid 80s let alone a 100.So just imagine what a giant number one hundred is to Tiger.When do you think was the last time Tiger even saw a 100 in his four-some??I dont know if he even plays at Pro-Ams anymore,but if he does,I promise you they wouldnt put a 28 handicapper in his four-some.

[psd]

I would prefer to see more non-celebs get a crack at this. 2 celebrities would be enough. Who needs to see Timberlake again, for example?

2 Celebs and 2 Joes. What do you think?

[Marrrk]

fishlips723, on Jan 22 2009, 02:43 PM, said:

I understood differently.Originally when Tiger came up with the idea (by accident),he was discussing how difficult conditions were at Oakmont that day.The way I took it was that if a Joe Schmo golfer with a 10 handicap when playing at his normal Muni golf course; could not break a 100 at Oakmonts conditions for that weekend.

Thats an interesting interpretation. Does anyone have the full quote and context handy?

psd, on Jan 22 2009, 02:50 PM, said:

I would prefer to see more non-celebs get a crack at this. 2 celebrities would be enough. Who needs to see Timberlake again, for example?

2 Celebs and 2 Joes. What do you think?

I'm fine with Timberlake, more than anyone else, actually. He's one of the best ambassadors the game has. Plus, he was sick last year, so that has to kill him. Oh, and he reveres Bethpage, as evidenced by his GD interview. More power to him.

[devlbasher]

I'm not an arrogant person, and certainly not as it applies to me golf ability, but I would bet almost anything that I could break 100 on any course i played, IIIIIIIIIIIIF, big IF, my only goal was to break 100. In reality though, while i would be there to try to "break 100", I really want to shoot 85 or better, so I take more chances. Hit driver when it should stay in the bag, go at a pin when the middle of the green is safer, etc. My index is 8.8. I have VERY little doubt I could break 100. I do hit my irons a long way compared to most 10 handicaps, so maybe thats where some of the confidence comes in...knowing I could hit irons to keep it in play. However, hitting irons off most tees gives me virtually no shot to break 90, and since I'm greedy about it, I'd probably take the driver out of the bag and play "I wonder if the rough is REALLY that deep over there". Anyway, my point was, there are plenty of 10 caps that could break 100, if their ONLY goal was to break 100. I'm feel like most people will disagree with me, though I'm not sure why...guess we'll see

[Marrrk]

devlbasher, on Jan 22 2009, 04:23 PM, said:

I'm not an arrogant person, and certainly not as it applies to me golf ability, but I would bet almost anything that I could break 100 on any course i played, IIIIIIIIIIIIF, big IF, my only goal was to break 100. In reality though, while i would be there to try to "break 100", I really want to shoot 85 or better, so I take more chances. Hit driver when it should stay in the bag, go at a pin when the middle of the green is safer, etc. My index is 8.8. I have VERY little doubt I could break 100. I do hit my irons a long way compared to most 10 handicaps, so maybe thats where some of the confidence comes in...knowing I could hit irons to keep it in play. However, hitting irons off most tees gives me virtually no shot to break 90, and since I'm greedy about it, I'd probably take the driver out of the bag and play "I wonder if the rough is REALLY that deep over there". Anyway, my point was, there are plenty of 10 caps that could break 100, if their ONLY goal was to break 100. I'm feel like most people will disagree with me, though I'm not sure why...guess we'll see

i dont think you're being unrealistic, but you'd still have to have a pretty good day. it's not like you can take that approach to a 7,500 yard layout with 6 inch rough, 2 foot fescue, and lightning fast greens and just have an alright day. no matter how safe you play it, there is still plenty of room for trouble on a US Open set-up, especially with crowds, Michael Jordan, Freddie, and a national TV audience you aren't used to playing in front of.

[fishlips723]

devlbasher, on Jan 22 2009, 04:23 PM, said:

I'm not an arrogant person, and certainly not as it applies to me golf ability, but I would bet almost anything that I could break 100 on any course i played, IIIIIIIIIIIIF, big IF, my only goal was to break 100. In reality though, while i would be there to try to "break 100", I really want to shoot 85 or better, so I take more chances. Hit driver when it should stay in the bag, go at a pin when the middle of the green is safer, etc. My index is 8.8. I have VERY little doubt I could break 100. I do hit my irons a long way compared to most 10 handicaps, so maybe thats where some of the confidence comes in...knowing I could hit irons to keep it in play. However, hitting irons off most tees gives me virtually no shot to break 90, and since I'm greedy about it, I'd probably take the driver out of the bag and play "I wonder if the rough is REALLY that deep over there". Anyway, my point was, there are plenty of 10 caps that could break 100, if their ONLY goal was to break 100. I'm feel like most people will disagree with me, though I'm not sure why...guess we'll see

No offense but I dont think it would be that easy for you to break 100.The course plays over 7500 yards with bunch of 495-500 yard par 4s.If you hit your 3 iron 240 yards off of the tees it still leaves 250 to 260 for your second shot.By the way,these are greens that will not hold a 3 iron even if you could get it there. Now you will have a lot of chip and pitch shots to a flag that is seating as if it was planted on turn 4 at Indy 500,only faster.
We are also assuming that you have hit every 3 iron perfect and on target.
If you can do all that,your tournament committe needs to look at your 8.8 more closely,lol.

[Marrrk]

fishlips723, on Jan 22 2009, 05:26 PM, said:

devlbasher, on Jan 22 2009, 04:23 PM, said:

I'm not an arrogant person, and certainly not as it applies to me golf ability, but I would bet almost anything that I could break 100 on any course i played, IIIIIIIIIIIIF, big IF, my only goal was to break 100. In reality though, while i would be there to try to "break 100", I really want to shoot 85 or better, so I take more chances. Hit driver when it should stay in the bag, go at a pin when the middle of the green is safer, etc. My index is 8.8. I have VERY little doubt I could break 100. I do hit my irons a long way compared to most 10 handicaps, so maybe thats where some of the confidence comes in...knowing I could hit irons to keep it in play. However, hitting irons off most tees gives me virtually no shot to break 90, and since I'm greedy about it, I'd probably take the driver out of the bag and play "I wonder if the rough is REALLY that deep over there". Anyway, my point was, there are plenty of 10 caps that could break 100, if their ONLY goal was to break 100. I'm feel like most people will disagree with me, though I'm not sure why...guess we'll see

No offense but I dont think it would be that easy for you to break 100.The course plays over 7500 yards with bunch of 495-500 yard par 4s.If you hit your 3 iron 240 yards off of the tees it still leaves 250 to 260 for your second shot.By the way,these are greens that will not hold a 3 iron even if you could get it there. Now you will have a lot of chip and pitch shots to the flag that is seating as if it was planted on turn 4 at Indy 500,only the slope is faster.
We are also assuming that you have hit every 3 iron perfect and on target.
If you can do all that,your tournament committe needs to look at your 8.8 more closely,lol.

not to mention, if you even miss the green by a smidge you are going to be in some deep cabbage that will make even short chips a very daunting challenge. the fescue will be up all around the bunkers and greens, as well. i played it a few times just before the NYS Open last summer and missing the green by only a foot did not guarantee you'd be able to find your ball. brutal.

i like saying cabbage.

[fishlips723]

i like saying cabbage.


Only when I am describing "money" that someone owes me.

[devlbasher]

i don't disagree with you mark, but in all fairness, neither I, nor tiger in his original comment, said I could do it while playing with 3 celebs and on national TV. He said a 10 cap couldn't break 100. I say I can. Also, fishlips, if I could hit every 3 iron just right, I'd break 90 with no problem, and you'd be right to say that my 8.8 probably would be too high. But I can make a few mistakes and still break 100. I know the crap around the green is just that...crap. its not like I have to hit every fairway and green to break 100. Believe me, not doing those things every time are what keeps my cap at 8.8.

Two more things that factor in I think...one, about half of my rounds come on difficult courses, one of which is a US open qualifier occasionally, i prefer fast greens and putt much better on them. I've played a number of courses that stimped 12 or 13. Not saying its the easiest thing ever, but I've done it and it didn't kill me. I'm not saying I'd have 28 putts, but i wouldn't 3 putt more than a few times either. Two, I've played on 5 Open Championship courses (St. Andrews, Prestwick, Troon, Turnberry, and Carnoustie), so while the rough is nasty, I do have some experience with it. Again, you guys are making some valid points, but even if I lost a ball or two or four, I'm trying to shoot 99, not 69.

Also, for what its worth, if I had time to play/practice more, I would be lower than a 8.8, so fishlips thinking isn't totally false. Assuming I knew I'd have the chance to play the course like this, and I brushed up, I'd be in better than 8.8 shape.

[CARDY]

good thread

I played Bethpage before it was overhauled / lengthened and I was a 3 at the time and shot 81 or 82. The greens were not slick. I remember birdie on 17th par 3 with a 2 iron )

I hit it long and putt well on slick greens as well but the rough there was ridiculous and if you missed a fairway you gouged it out and then with a solid short iron, if lucky, hit the green and 2 putted for bogey

I would love a shot at it I tell you. My feelings are that if you did not hit fairways off the tee you'd be shooting close to 90 no matter what. Perhaps the flatness of the greens at BPB would make it a little less stressful than other venues and as I recall there are not a lot of disaster spots ie lakes/creeks

[DemolitionMan]

devlbasher, on Jan 22 2009, 04:48 PM, said:

i don't disagree with you mark, but in all fairness, neither I, nor tiger in his original comment, said I could do it while playing with 3 celebs and on national TV. He said a 10 cap couldn't break 100. I say I can. Also, fishlips, if I could hit every 3 iron just right, I'd break 90 with no problem, and you'd be right to say that my 8.8 probably would be too high. But I can make a few mistakes and still break 100. I know the crap around the green is just that...crap. its not like I have to hit every fairway and green to break 100. Believe me, not doing those things every time are what keeps my cap at 8.8.

Two more things that factor in I think...one, about half of my rounds come on difficult courses, one of which is a US open qualifier occasionally, i prefer fast greens and putt much better on them. I've played a number of courses that stimped 12 or 13. Not saying its the easiest thing ever, but I've done it and it didn't kill me. I'm not saying I'd have 28 putts, but i wouldn't 3 putt more than a few times either. Two, I've played on 5 Open Championship courses (St. Andrews, Prestwick, Troon, Turnberry, and Carnoustie), so while the rough is nasty, I do have some experience with it. Again, you guys are making some valid points, but even if I lost a ball or two or four, I'm trying to shoot 99, not 69.

Also, for what its worth, if I had time to play/practice more, I would be lower than a 8.8, so fishlips thinking isn't totally false. Assuming I knew I'd have the chance to play the course like this, and I brushed up, I'd be in better than 8.8 shape.

I agree with your overall assessment, but I'll even go one better. If the goal is to break 100, then you can even take 1/2 the clubs out of my bag as long as I can keep the driver and a sand wedge. I really don't need that many irons. I want the driver because even if I am spraying, I'm pretty confident that in the summertime I am going to get at least 260 yards out of my drives missing the fairway. Even if caught a lot of rough and only got 240, I can gouge my way out at least another 80-100 yards. So that doesn't leave much into the greens.

I wouldn't even practice anything but wedges and putting for a month. It wouldn't make for any compelling television viewing, it would be quite boring. Driver, 7-PW, another wedge, two-putt = 5, again, again, and again. Even on a bad day, I'm going to make a few pars. As long as you manage the course, no blowups, maybe even get away with one blow up, breaking 100 is not hard for a true 10 handicap (mine's better, but I remember the days of being a 10 well).

It's people like Jordan that will make it interesting because he is a vanity handicap so I don't expect a "2" of his caliber to break 85, probably not even 90.

[devlbasher]

DemolitionMan, on Jan 23 2009, 02:33 PM, said:

devlbasher, on Jan 22 2009, 04:48 PM, said:

i don't disagree with you mark, but in all fairness, neither I, nor tiger in his original comment, said I could do it while playing with 3 celebs and on national TV. He said a 10 cap couldn't break 100. I say I can. Also, fishlips, if I could hit every 3 iron just right, I'd break 90 with no problem, and you'd be right to say that my 8.8 probably would be too high. But I can make a few mistakes and still break 100. I know the crap around the green is just that...crap. its not like I have to hit every fairway and green to break 100. Believe me, not doing those things every time are what keeps my cap at 8.8.

Two more things that factor in I think...one, about half of my rounds come on difficult courses, one of which is a US open qualifier occasionally, i prefer fast greens and putt much better on them. I've played a number of courses that stimped 12 or 13. Not saying its the easiest thing ever, but I've done it and it didn't kill me. I'm not saying I'd have 28 putts, but i wouldn't 3 putt more than a few times either. Two, I've played on 5 Open Championship courses (St. Andrews, Prestwick, Troon, Turnberry, and Carnoustie), so while the rough is nasty, I do have some experience with it. Again, you guys are making some valid points, but even if I lost a ball or two or four, I'm trying to shoot 99, not 69.

Also, for what its worth, if I had time to play/practice more, I would be lower than a 8.8, so fishlips thinking isn't totally false. Assuming I knew I'd have the chance to play the course like this, and I brushed up, I'd be in better than 8.8 shape.

I agree with your overall assessment, but I'll even go one better. If the goal is to break 100, then you can even take 1/2 the clubs out of my bag as long as I can keep the driver and a sand wedge. I really don't need that many irons. I want the driver because even if I am spraying, I'm pretty confident that in the summertime I am going to get at least 260 yards out of my drives missing the fairway. Even if caught a lot of rough and only got 240, I can gouge my way out at least another 80-100 yards. So that doesn't leave much into the greens.

I wouldn't even practice anything but wedges and putting for a month. It wouldn't make for any compelling television viewing, it would be quite boring. Driver, 7-PW, another wedge, two-putt = 5, again, again, and again. Even on a bad day, I'm going to make a few pars. As long as you manage the course, no blowups, maybe even get away with one blow up, breaking 100 is not hard for a true 10 handicap (mine's better, but I remember the days of being a 10 well).

It's people like Jordan that will make it interesting because he is a vanity handicap so I don't expect a "2" of his caliber to break 85, probably not even 90.

Exactly my point. Its not that i think the course is easy, its that I think anyone that is a true 10 handicap can break 100 on the Open layouts, IF they play to break 100, and nothing else. There are probably other ways to do it other than what we said, but the bottom line is if you play smart and have the ability of a true 10 cap, you can do it.

[InTheHole]

One minor thing you guys aren't considering... and I already know what you're going to say about it...

Common theory says that when you add the pressure of cameras, celebrities, and rules officials watching every move you make, and recording it, you can add 5 to 10 strokes to your game, maybe more according to Tiger.

Now, I know you're probably going to say, "Not me!" And maybe that's true, but I find it hard to believe that nerves would not throw your game at least somewhat. We're all human... even the pros who are used to all that get nervous when being scrutinized to that level, so I'm not sure why any amateur that wins the contest would be different.

Plus, true, you all play really hard courses- but you aren't playing the US Open course- somehow, it is just different. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be the US Open. There's a reason all the pros say that "it's all about the majors." Sorry, there's no way your really-hard-home-course is as difficult as a hard course that has been tweaked for a major. There's a reason Tiger made the statement he made- he was saying that someone that 25% of the time shoots an 82 (that's a 10 handicap, right?) is going to shoot at least 18 shots higher under US Open conditions.

I think he's right.

[highergr0und]

I wouldn't come close to breaking 100 on that course with the layout, pressure, etc. I'd hope to break 60 a side. I don't think Tiger meant anything when he said it aside from just making a comment. Golf Digest just picked it up and ran with it all the way to the bank. It's great publicity for golf though.

[DemolitionMan]

InTheHole, on Jan 23 2009, 02:02 PM, said:

One minor thing you guys aren't considering... and I already know what you're going to say about it...

Common theory says that when you add the pressure of cameras, celebrities, and rules officials watching every move you make, and recording it, you can add 5 to 10 strokes to your game, maybe more according to Tiger.

Now, I know you're probably going to say, "Not me!" And maybe that's true, but I find it hard to believe that nerves would not throw your game at least somewhat. We're all human... even the pros who are used to all that get nervous when being scrutinized to that level, so I'm not sure why any amateur that wins the contest would be different.

Plus, true, you all play really hard courses- but you aren't playing the US Open course- somehow, it is just different. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be the US Open. There's a reason all the pros say that "it's all about the majors." Sorry, there's no way your really-hard-home-course is as difficult as a hard course that has been tweaked for a major. There's a reason Tiger made the statement he made- he was saying that someone that 25% of the time shoots an 82 (that's a 10 handicap, right?) is going to shoot at least 18 shots higher under US Open conditions.

I think he's right.

For some it would be pressure, but for myself I am pretty sure the opening tee shot would be very nervous, but after a couple of swings, it's no big deal. I've already done some pretty embarrassing things in front of a lot of people and cameras, so what's the worse that can happen.

The trick would be part of the preparation has to include dealing with the distractions and minimizing the number of distractions you have control over. For example, I don't want a swing coach or a Golf Digest supplied coach following along, I don't want a gallery of supporters. Let me just have a couple of buddies to chat with and caddy. And celebrities.....big deal. Last year would have been comical. I don't even know anything about Timberlake other than teenage girls go nuts over him, so he's just another guy. As a Cowboys fan, I would dishing out the ribbing to Romo, he's the one that will be nervous after I get through with him. And Matt Lauer, I get around, but honestly I couldn't pick him out of crowd.

As for this year, it's Timberlake again, great, seems like a nice fellow golfer. Jordan, let the bets begin, I think he's a hack and I don't care how many rings he has, he has a lot more reason to be nervous. Now if they had Penelope Cruz or another hot/single actress, then all bets are off, I won't be breaking 100, I won't even finish 18. LOL.

[devlbasher]

InTheHole, on Jan 23 2009, 05:02 PM, said:

One minor thing you guys aren't considering... and I already know what you're going to say about it...

Common theory says that when you add the pressure of cameras, celebrities, and rules officials watching every move you make, and recording it, you can add 5 to 10 strokes to your game, maybe more according to Tiger.

Now, I know you're probably going to say, "Not me!" And maybe that's true, but I find it hard to believe that nerves would not throw your game at least somewhat. We're all human... even the pros who are used to all that get nervous when being scrutinized to that level, so I'm not sure why any amateur that wins the contest would be different.

Plus, true, you all play really hard courses- but you aren't playing the US Open course- somehow, it is just different. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be the US Open. There's a reason all the pros say that "it's all about the majors." Sorry, there's no way your really-hard-home-course is as difficult as a hard course that has been tweaked for a major. There's a reason Tiger made the statement he made- he was saying that someone that 25% of the time shoots an 82 (that's a 10 handicap, right?) is going to shoot at least 18 shots higher under US Open conditions.

I think he's right.

devlbasher, on Jan 22 2009, 07:48 PM, said:

i don't disagree with you mark, but in all fairness, neither I, nor tiger in his original comment, said I could do it while playing with 3 celebs and on national TV. He said a 10 cap couldn't break 100. I say I can.

We did already consider it. Thats what I said about it. I honestly don't know how the pressure would affect me, but if i had to guess, I would assume that the first couple of holes would get the nerves out. As another guy said...how badly could i embarrass myself? Everyone there knows I can hit bad golf shots...if i couldn't, then I'd be a pro. So again, I'm not saying I could do it for sure with all the cameras and everything, but that isn't what Tiger said either.

[carogers1]

I enjoy watching the average good golfer. I think it would be great to put someones regular foursome out there, let 'em bet and evrything. I would watch that.

I also used to like the Big Break more before they started putting people already on tours, or were formally on tours on there.

[fishlips723]

I am not even talking about the cameras or spectators and their effects,because I dont think Tiger was considering them when he proposed the idea.

I also think he was talking about golfers actually playing GOLF and not just p***y-footing it around ( no-offense).When you guys to to any golf course you carry 14 clubs and you HIT them all,or at least will if you have to.When was the last time any of us decided to leave a Driver at home for a sake of scoring?We are all weekend warriors out to score a 65 everytime we are out there (but never actually doing it),and dammit,we wont go to battle without our biggest weapon and thats are drivers.

Ofcourse as we all know our biggest weapon sometimes turnes out to be our biggest liability,lol .
As I stated before,I think having guys out there with 2-6 handicaps are against the spirit of what Tiger was talking about,but so is leaving the driver at home.
The question is,Can you break 100 the way you are?

[bigvivec]

devlbasher, on Jan 23 2009, 04:23 AM, said:

I'm not an arrogant person, and certainly not as it applies to me golf ability, but I would bet almost anything that I could break 100 on any course i played, IIIIIIIIIIIIF, big IF, my only goal was to break 100. In reality though, while i would be there to try to "break 100", I really want to shoot 85 or better, so I take more chances. Hit driver when it should stay in the bag, go at a pin when the middle of the green is safer, etc. My index is 8.8. I have VERY little doubt I could break 100. I do hit my irons a long way compared to most 10 handicaps, so maybe thats where some of the confidence comes in...knowing I could hit irons to keep it in play. However, hitting irons off most tees gives me virtually no shot to break 90, and since I'm greedy about it, I'd probably take the driver out of the bag and play "I wonder if the rough is REALLY that deep over there". Anyway, my point was, there are plenty of 10 caps that could break 100, if their ONLY goal was to break 100. I'm feel like most people will disagree with me, though I'm not sure why...guess we'll see

If you are a legit 8.8 I'd bet the bank you couldn't break 100...counting all lost balls, penalities, no mullies, and hard fast greens into account...


...besides, that's the whole point of the GD exercise isn't it? To get average guys lining up to prove that they can and be able to watch someone who we can measure ourselves against (reason for the varied single handicaps) get punished by the course...the underlying theme of course is reinforcing the PGA slogan of "These guys are good"...when Tony Romo, professional athlete dead in the middle of his off season (read: golf every day since January until June) who had in the past attended US Open qualifiers and uses a dubious 2.2 index (dubious in that the speculation is he's plus if anything) can only claw his way to the mid 80s, it both inspires imagination as well as hammers home how hard that setup is to score on for even a very good amateur...

[InTheHole]

fishlips723, on Jan 24 2009, 09:42 AM, said:

I am not even talking about the cameras or spectators and their effects,because I dont think Tiger was considering them when he proposed the idea.

I don't think Tiger was "proposing an idea." He was just making a comment- GD took the comment and came up with the idea. If memory serves, I believe someone in the media was asking about course conditions/difficulty. But I could be wrong.

Also, I think you can interpret his comment as including cameras and spectators- I believe he said ..."under US Open conditions." I take that to mean more than how the grass is cut... it takes into account everything. Again, I may be misquoting, so if I'm wrong about exactly what he said, my apologies.

You know what, this contest would be way more legit in my opinion if they played it on US Open day... winner gets to be included in a foresome for round 1 of the open. No money, no cut- you only get to play one round along with 3 other pros (on day 2 you are officially listed as a WD). THAT would truly be US Open conditions. And worse- you get to hit the opening tee shot with the world watching. You get a caddy of your choice, and the three pros get to heckle the crap out of you for a bad shot. You get anything you need from the tour trailer of your choice... now that would be a contest to win...

[Simp]

InTheHole, on Jan 24 2009, 12:10 PM, said:

You know what, this contest would be way more legit in my opinion if they played it on US Open day... winner gets to be included in a foresome for round 1 of the open. No money, no cut- you only get to play one round along with 3 other pros (on day 2 you are officially listed as a WD). THAT would truly be US Open conditions. And worse- you get to hit the opening tee shot with the world watching. You get a caddy of your choice, and the three pros get to heckle the crap out of you for a bad shot. You get anything you need from the tour trailer of your choice... now that would be a contest to win...

A 10 handicapper hitting the first tee shot in the US Open huh? The group would get DQ'd for slow play I believe. 7 hour round, no doubt.

[InTheHole]

So you send that group out 30 minutes before everyone else... give 'em a little cushion... Or, forget the first tee shot thing and put them as the last group out on Day 1.

[Simp]

They'd never finish before dark if they went off last, and would, in all likelihood, finish their first round sometime Friday around lunch. That would compound the late start even further and they'd probably finish their 72nd home sometime the following Tuesday.

[fishlips723]

fishlips723, on Jan 24 2009, 09:42 AM, said:

I am not even talking about the cameras or spectators and their effects,because I dont think Tiger was considering them when he proposed the idea.

I also think he was talking about golfers actually playing GOLF and not just p***y-footing it around ( no-offense).When you guys to to any golf course you carry 14 clubs and you HIT them all,or at least will if you have to.When was the last time any of us decided to leave a Driver at home for a sake of scoring?We are all weekend warriors out to score a 65 everytime we are out there (but never actually doing it),and dammit,we wont go to battle without our biggest weapon and thats are drivers.

Ofcourse as we all know our biggest weapon sometimes turnes out to be our biggest liability,lol .
As I stated before,I think having guys out there with 2-6 handicaps are against the spirit of what Tiger was talking about,but so is leaving the driver at home.
The question is,Can you break 100 the way you are?

Sorry I made a mistake.Tiger didnt propose the idea,he just casually mentioned it as an anwser to a reporter

[DemolitionMan]

InTheHole, on Jan 24 2009, 09:10 AM, said:

fishlips723, on Jan 24 2009, 09:42 AM, said:

I am not even talking about the cameras or spectators and their effects,because I dont think Tiger was considering them when he proposed the idea.

I don't think Tiger was "proposing an idea." He was just making a comment- GD took the comment and came up with the idea. If memory serves, I believe someone in the media was asking about course conditions/difficulty. But I could be wrong.

Also, I think you can interpret his comment as including cameras and spectators- I believe he said ..."under US Open conditions." I take that to mean more than how the grass is cut... it takes into account everything. Again, I may be misquoting, so if I'm wrong about exactly what he said, my apologies.

You know what, this contest would be way more legit in my opinion if they played it on US Open day... winner gets to be included in a foresome for round 1 of the open. No money, no cut- you only get to play one round along with 3 other pros (on day 2 you are officially listed as a WD). THAT would truly be US Open conditions. And worse- you get to hit the opening tee shot with the world watching. You get a caddy of your choice, and the three pros get to heckle the crap out of you for a bad shot. You get anything you need from the tour trailer of your choice... now that would be a contest to win...

You are correct. Tiger mentioned it in a post round interview at Oakmont when asked how difficult the setup was. He was specifically talking about Oakmont, not break 100 on any US Open setup per se. GD ran with it. However, when asked again about it before the Torrey event, he did not think a 10 handicap could break 100 on the US Open setup for Torrey.

I don't know about that contest getting one contestant into the real deal. Not all the PGA Tour players are exempt so to get in, other than the qualifying route, you have to have quite a resume. How unlucky would it be for the three pros to get stuck with the chop? That would be some serious pressure because the other three pros won't be heckling, that would be rude, but the rest of the crowd??? It would be relentless. No, I don't think the USGA would allow that circus. (BTW, I know you are not serious). Can you imagine the threads here if that happened? A few members get bent when Michelle Wie gets an exemption, if the "10" got exempt into the US Open, the belly aching would never stop.

[fishlips723]

I go back to what I said at the begining.They should take 12-16 golfers with a handicap index somewhere between 9-11 and have them play the course on the Monday after the tournament with the Sundays pins.

[MAK2525]

fishlips723, on Jan 24 2009, 02:22 PM, said:

I go back to what I said at the begining.They should take 12-16 golfers with a handicap index somewhere between 9-11 and have them play the course on the Monday after the tournament with the Sundays pins.

TPC Sawgrass used to do this back in '96-'97 (they may still) with a members tournament played on Monday with the Sunday set-up plus one more day of rough. I was fortunate enough to get to play in this one year. Let me tell you, I was a 5 at the time, and I shot an 89 playing a smart round with a good ball striking and average putting day! I played more conservative than I normally would, mainly due to the dry, fast conditions. The day after would be a good judge of just how tough an Open course can be for a 10!

[fishlips723]

MAK2525, on Jan 24 2009, 02:41 PM, said:

fishlips723, on Jan 24 2009, 02:22 PM, said:

I go back to what I said at the begining.They should take 12-16 golfers with a handicap index somewhere between 9-11 and have them play the course on the Monday after the tournament with the Sundays pins.

TPC Sawgrass used to do this back in '96-'97 (they may still) with a members tournament played on Monday with the Sunday set-up plus one more day of rough. I was fortunate enough to get to play in this one year. Let me tell you, I was a 5 at the time, and I shot an 89 playing a smart round with a good ball striking and average putting day! I played more conservative than I normally would, mainly due to the dry, fast conditions. The day after would be a good judge of just how tough an Open course can be for a 10!

[Ronzo]

Simp, on Jan 24 2009, 01:20 PM, said:

They'd never finish before dark if they went off last, and would, in all likelihood, finish their first round sometime Friday around lunch. That would compound the late start even further and they'd probably finish their 72nd home sometime the following Tuesday.

Hey! I haven't won the contest YET!