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Keep the upper left arm connected to chest.


67 replies to this topic

#1 Cloran

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 07:36 PM

It's snowing to beat the band here in NY and I'm locked in the house with SliceFixer's Encyclopedia. I've read it through a few times, but each time I pull out a different pearl...

I just read where he says Hogan's real secret (please don't lock this... my question isn't about Hogan, I could care less about his secrets really :rolleyes: ) was that he kept his upper left arm "attached" to his chest. I tried it in the garage; keeping my left arm stuck to my chest and connected throughout the backswing and past impact, and I could really feel a difference when my arms get separated from my body and race ahead of everything.

Is this what Slice' means when he says to "stay connected?" Is this a good thing to work on?

Edited by cloranstreetkid, 10 January 2009 - 07:37 PM.


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#2 dminn23

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 07:45 PM

View Postcloranstreetkid, on Jan 10 2009, 07:36 PM, said:

It's snowing to beat the band here in NY and I'm locked in the house with SliceFixer's Encyclopedia. I've read it through a few times, but each time I pull out a different pearl...

I just read where he says Hogan's real secret (please don't lock this... my question isn't about Hogan, I could care less about his secrets really :rolleyes: ) was that he kept his upper left arm "attached" to his chest. I tried it in the garage; keeping my left arm stuck to my chest and connected throughout the backswing and past impact, and I could really feel a difference when my arms get separated from my body and race ahead of everything.

Is this what Slice' means when he says to "stay connected?" Is this a good thing to work on?


Yes sir...Slice likes to have people keep things stuffed up IN the armpit....not beneath it.  He keeps slices of nerf ball around and has you stick that in there.  You don't want your left arm across your chest like Hardy advocates (lawnmower pull), they still need to stay in front so if you collapsed it would be on the right pectoral.

Like I said, way up in the arm pit....not lower.  Thats staying connected.  It should fall out after impact.  Hit short shots with it and you can really get em compressing.  A lot of tour players tuck their left shirt sleeve up into the armpit as part of their regular swing on the course, trying to keep that feeling.

Edited by dminn23, 10 January 2009 - 07:46 PM.


#3 Richie3Jack

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 07:49 PM

View Postcloranstreetkid, on Jan 10 2009, 07:36 PM, said:

It's snowing to beat the band here in NY and I'm locked in the house with SliceFixer's Encyclopedia. I've read it through a few times, but each time I pull out a different pearl...

I just read where he says Hogan's real secret (please don't lock this... my question isn't about Hogan, I could care less about his secrets really :rolleyes: ) was that he kept his upper left arm "attached" to his chest. I tried it in the garage; keeping my left arm stuck to my chest and connected throughout the backswing and past impact, and I could really feel a difference when my arms get separated from my body and race ahead of everything.

Is this what Slice' means when he says to "stay connected?" Is this a good thing to work on?


It's been awhile since I've read Slice's Encyclopedia.  But the upper left arm attached to the chest is also known as "left side connection."  I use it all of the time.

I believe that flippers and/or casters of the golf club get very, very anxious to the hit the ball.  Thus, they start using the arms and the hands to get that clubhead to hit the ball instead of using the pivot to get the clubhead to the ball.  If you keep your upper left arm attached to the chest correctly, it pretty much forces you to use your pivot to get the clubhead to the ball.  You can still flip and Slice has some good drills for that.  I mainly suggest that if you're still flipping to take the right index finger and the right thumb up off the grip and try swinging it like that.  Pretty much almost impossible to flip if the right thumb and index finger are off the grip.



3JACK

#4 Cloran

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 08:56 PM

Great tips guys... I posted in the 9/3 thread that some of my best swings come when I just "turn and turn." When I do this, my tempo is smooth and my left arm stays connected with my chest (or in front... semantics I guess, but it is touching my chest for sure).

When things get wacky is when my arms out race my body, and I can definitely feel the difference now that I'm conscious of trying to stay connected.

I think this is a great way to get people to recognize the proper synchronization Slice' talks about. Keep that left arm connected and you're in good shape.

#5 truck13

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 09:18 PM

a quick question...whenever i try to get the feeling of keeping that left arm connection i feel like my backswing gets too far inside.  Is this a common feeling?  I realize that it may not be the case and i need to get on camera again to validate it but in the past my backswing gets too inside and my arms get away from my body in the downswing and i get it off the heel or on really bad days the you know what.  I've tried the armpit drills and i always feel like i'm yanking it way to the inside.  kind of general i know but has anyone else experienced this and what was the cause?


#6 rankoutsider

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 09:21 PM

What this connection does, as well, is keep you in synch in your swing.  It prevents the arms from going like the energizer bunny after the core has stopped.

If you feel way inside, you need to try to make a conscious effort to return the club with your core, and not your arms.  Feel the rotation of the body start the throughswing.  You won't be "inside" for long.

Cheers,
Rob

#7 trevintheFL

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 10:12 PM

View Posttruck13, on Jan 10 2009, 09:18 PM, said:

a quick question...whenever i try to get the feeling of keeping that left arm connection i feel like my backswing gets too far inside.  Is this a common feeling?  I realize that it may not be the case and i need to get on camera again to validate it but in the past my backswing gets too inside and my arms get away from my body in the downswing and i get it off the heel or on really bad days the you know what.  I've tried the armpit drills and i always feel like i'm yanking it way to the inside.  kind of general i know but has anyone else experienced this and what was the cause?
I also feel that I suck the club too far inside, my shot still ends up alright, but perhaps we are both connecting below the armpit and not in it as dminn was talking about?

#8 truck13

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 10:16 PM

ya i'm wondering the same thing, it feels ok but every once in a while i get the laterals with it!!  I am wondering which it's a better drill for the takeaway or the downswing.

#9 iteachgolf

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 10:24 PM

View Posttruck13, on Jan 10 2009, 10:16 PM, said:

ya i'm wondering the same thing, it feels ok but every once in a while i get the laterals with it!!  I am wondering which it's a better drill for the takeaway or the downswing.
Hands should work in and up with the clubhead staying outside the hands til hip height. The right arm should not work behind you meaning the club should be brought back with your core and not arms only.

#10 dminn23

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 10:31 PM

If you guys are sucking it inside bad, check your alignment as well.  You may be closed.  Make sure your feet, hips, and shoulders are all aligned square to slightly open to the target.  Always lay some sticks down like railroad tracks.  I find myself practicing alignment more and more often.  As good as tour pro's are, if you go to a tournament (I goto the Memorial every year being an Ohioan), you will see tons of tour players using alignment aids.  Furyk uses some type of chain that he forms into a straight line.  I saw him spend about 3 minutes aligning it perfectly to a target he was hitting at.  Thats a long time to line something up, but it shows the value and how meticulous these guys are.

BTW....this was a problem I had when I went to see Slicefixer.  I got the "Dude, you are aiming about 20 yards right of your target" on more than one occasion.  It felt square to me.  Now I feel like I'm aligning left of my target, but its square.  Feel is rarely real!

Edited by dminn23, 10 January 2009 - 10:34 PM.


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#11 truck13

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 10:37 PM

thanks iteach and dminn!  i took a couple swings in the house (my wife is gone for a couple hours) and i think my rt. arm was working back behind...i'll work on it, a work in progress!!

#12 Richie3Jack

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 11:16 PM

View Postdminn23, on Jan 10 2009, 10:31 PM, said:

If you guys are sucking it inside bad, check your alignment as well. You may be closed. Make sure your feet, hips, and shoulders are all aligned square to slightly open to the target. Always lay some sticks down like railroad tracks. I find myself practicing alignment more and more often. As good as tour pro's are, if you go to a tournament (I goto the Memorial every year being an Ohioan), you will see tons of tour players using alignment aids. Furyk uses some type of chain that he forms into a straight line. I saw him spend about 3 minutes aligning it perfectly to a target he was hitting at. Thats a long time to line something up, but it shows the value and how meticulous these guys are.

BTW....this was a problem I had when I went to see Slicefixer. I got the "Dude, you are aiming about 20 yards right of your target" on more than one occasion. It felt square to me. Now I feel like I'm aligning left of my target, but its square. Feel is rarely real!

That and video tape your swing.  You may be taking it back just fine to begin with and because you've swung the club for so long one way, being connected feels very different, but correct.



3JACK

#13 Andariego

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 07:39 PM

I not a golf swing expert for sure...but I'm watching DL III at Kapalua right now and his disconnected left arm looks pretty good!  There have been hundreds of successfull PGA Tour Pros with disconnected left arms.  I'm pretty much old school and keep the shaft in front of my chest.. ..gotta find your own swing..Whatever suits ya!

Edited by Andariego, 11 January 2009 - 08:47 PM.


#14 dminn23

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 08:36 PM

View PostAndariego, on Jan 11 2009, 07:39 PM, said:

I not a golf swing expert for sure...but I'm watching DL III at Kapalua right now and his disconnected left arm looks pretty good!  There have been hundreds of successfull PGA pros with disconnected left arms.  I'm pretty much old school and keep the shaft in front of my chest.. ..gotta find your own swing..Whatever suits ya!


The connection has to be re-established at some point in the down swing to have a solid blow at impact.  If you can do that consistently then thats a-ok in my book.

Back to Kapaula though, Anthony Kim just hit a hell of a 3 or 5 wood (not sure) for a tap in for eagle.....wow!

Edited by dminn23, 11 January 2009 - 08:37 PM.


#15 Richie3Jack

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 08:47 PM

View PostAndariego, on Jan 11 2009, 07:39 PM, said:

I not a golf swing expert for sure...but I'm watching DL III at Kapalua right now and his disconnected left arm looks pretty good! There have been hundreds of successfull PGA pros with disconnected left arms. I'm pretty much old school and keep the shaft in front of my chest.. ..gotta find your own swing..Whatever suits ya!

He doesn't have a disconnected left arm...unless he's changed his swing lately.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image


All frames have his left arm connected to his chest.



3JACK


#16 rankoutsider

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 09:20 PM

hi guys: of course you can hit a ball wonderfully well without maintaining this connection.  

the OP was saying, basically, "i want to swing more like this, but this is the problem," so posts about other ways to do it are not really on topic.  we all pretty much know that there are many ways to skin the cat in this game.  if you like to feel some air in that gap, hang fire.

davis love looks to me like he does keep a decent connection there.  he does, however, let the shaft get on a very steep angle, so it looks like his arm and chest are very loose at the top.  i think 3 jack is correct, though, they are fairly snug in those photos.  even guys like vijay, who have obvious two plane swings, use this drill a lot.

cheers,
rob

#17 tommybc

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 09:06 AM

Which clubs do you recommend keeping your left arm  close to your chest? I tried it with the driver and it felt strange

#18 Hawkeye77

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 11:45 AM

http://www.golfwrx.c...te chest left

#19 QB74

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 07:23 AM

View Postiteachgolf, on 10 January 2009 - 10:24 PM, said:

Hands should work in and up with the clubhead staying outside the hands til hip height. The right arm should not work behind you meaning the club should be brought back with your core and not arms only.

ITeach, in the arm swing illusion thread it is mentioned that hands should push OUT and up and that the pivot brings in the hands. You mention the IN without the pivot. Could you please clarify whether it is the same motion or whether you differ in your approach?

#20 iteachgolf

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 08:15 AM

View Post74Quarterback, on 03 July 2015 - 07:23 AM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 10 January 2009 - 10:24 PM, said:

Hands should work in and up with the clubhead staying outside the hands til hip height. The right arm should not work behind you meaning the club should be brought back with your core and not arms only.

ITeach, in the arm swing illusion thread it is mentioned that hands should push OUT and up and that the pivot brings in the hands. You mention the IN without the pivot. Could you please clarify whether it is the same motion or whether you differ in your approach?

Thanks work in due to both pivot and right arm folding.  Hands should work in immediately as you turn


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#21 iteachgolf

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 08:23 AM

View PostLawdy Mama, on 03 July 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

It should be somewhere in between these two, but not either of these two:



Attachment image.jpg

Attachment image.jpg

Why don't you use the actual top of the swing Cary.  And why would you use a swing from 6+ years ago

Posted Image

Top of that swing

#22 QB74

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 08:36 AM

Ok, so if I lift the arms faster than I turn, hands will be outside and if I turn without lifting, hands will be too much inside. The trick is to sync the lifting and turning plus folding of the right arm to be on plane. Does that sound correct?

#23 iteachgolf

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 08:56 AM

View PostLawdy Mama, on 03 July 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 03 July 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

View PostLawdy Mama, on 03 July 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

It should be somewhere in between these two, but not either of these two:



Attachment image.jpg

Attachment image.jpg

Why don't you use the actual top of the swing Cary.  And why would you use a swing from 6+ years ago

Posted Image

Top of that swing

I thought that the spot you were in there was funnier. Sorry about going back 6 years. Have you changed your mind (S & T) since then ?

Never taught S&T exclusively in pieces or as a whole.  It certainly has pieces that can work well and good for guys who struggle with low point issues and hitting low cuts.

View Post74Quarterback, on 03 July 2015 - 08:36 AM, said:

Ok, so if I lift the arms faster than I turn, hands will be outside and if I turn without lifting, hands will be too much inside. The trick is to sync the lifting and turning plus folding of the right arm to be on plane. Does that sound correct?

Arms aren't lifting.  Right arm is folding.  Very different

#24 QB74

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 09:34 AM

View Postiteachgolf, on 03 July 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:


Arms aren't lifting.  Right arm is folding.  Very different

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=ASH06DwHaRw
At 0:36 arm swing illusion by Jim Waldron.

I am confused.

#25 Ghost of Snead

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 09:53 AM

View Post74Quarterback, on 03 July 2015 - 09:34 AM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 03 July 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

Arms aren't lifting.  Right arm is folding.  Very different

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=ASH06DwHaRw
At 0:36 arm swing illusion by Jim Waldron.

I am confused.

Don't think that either Jim or Dan is advocating pushing the arms out  or arms working in on the takeaway without a proper turning of the shoulders perpendicular to the spine.


#26 QB74

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 09:59 AM

View PostGhost of Snead, on 03 July 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:


Don't think that either Jim or Dan is advocating pushing the arms out  or arms working in on the takeaway without a proper turning of the shoulders perpendicular to the spine.

Never implied that. In fact

View Post74Quarterback, on 03 July 2015 - 08:36 AM, said:

Ok, so if I lift the arms faster than I turn, hands will be outside and if I turn without lifting, hands will be too much inside. The trick is to sync the lifting and turning plus folding of the right arm to be on plane. Does that sound correct?


#27 Jim Waldron

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 10:58 AM

View Post74Quarterback, on 03 July 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

View PostGhost of Snead, on 03 July 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:


Don't think that either Jim or Dan is advocating pushing the arms out  or arms working in on the takeaway without a proper turning of the shoulders perpendicular to the spine.

Never implied that. In fact

View Post74Quarterback, on 03 July 2015 - 08:36 AM, said:

Ok, so if I lift the arms faster than I turn, hands will be outside and if I turn without lifting, hands will be too much inside. The trick is to sync the lifting and turning plus folding of the right arm to be on plane. Does that sound correct?

Yes to the last part of your post, except for one aspect. To understand this, you really need to study the ASI thread to be able to see through the Illusion and to "see" the swing in 3D.

Dan is correct - the arms do not lift themselves, the right arm folding lifts the left arm a little bit. The video you posted was made almost 20 years ago, and I stopped demonstrating it like that around 1999. This has been discussed at least three times in the ASI thread. If you want a more current version, check out the 2008 footage on my Youtube  channel or wait a
week for the brand new ASI video. My demo since 1999is more of a rightward angled V with lower hands than in that 20 year
old video.

But sounds like you are getting one of the basic concepts, ie that the golf swing is a blend of pivot and independent arm
motion.

#28 Joe Hill

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 11:00 AM

View Postiteachgolf, on 03 July 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

View PostLawdy Mama, on 03 July 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

View Postiteachgolf, on 03 July 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

View PostLawdy Mama, on 03 July 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

It should be somewhere in between these two, but not either of these two:



Attachment image.jpg

Attachment image.jpg

Why don't you use the actual top of the swing Cary.  And why would you use a swing from 6+ years ago

Posted Image

Top of that swing

I thought that the spot you were in there was funnier. Sorry about going back 6 years. Have you changed your mind (S & T) since then ?

Never taught S&T exclusively in pieces or as a whole.  It certainly has pieces that can work well and good for guys who struggle with low point issues and hitting low cuts.

View Post74Quarterback, on 03 July 2015 - 08:36 AM, said:

Ok, so if I lift the arms faster than I turn, hands will be outside and if I turn without lifting, hands will be too much inside. The trick is to sync the lifting and turning plus folding of the right arm to be on plane. Does that sound correct?

Arms aren't lifting.  Right arm is folding.  Very different
The arms are lifting in your illustration. If the arms don't lift (relative to the rib cage), the hands will never get past sternum height with a 90- degree shoulder turn. Make a triangle like this and study it's motion in space as the spindle (pencil/spine) turns.
Attached is the top of my back swing with no arm lift; just a simple rotation, leaving the triangle intact relative to the rib cage. The club face stays square to it's path, and when I swing correctly, I can knock the snot out of the ball, dead straight, from that top position. Not trying to boast, but offer evidence that lifting the arms is not necessary for power.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Triangle1.PNG
  • Triangle2.PNG
  • TheTopPic.PNG


#29 Ghost of Snead

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 11:11 AM

View PostJoe Hill, on 03 July 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

The arms are lifting in your illustration. If the arms don't lift (relative to the rib cage), the hands will never get past sternum height with a 90- degree shoulder turn. Make a triangle like this and study it's motion in space as the spindle (pencil/spine) turns.
Attached is the top of my back swing with no arm lift; just a simple rotation, leaving the triangle intact relative to the rib cage. The club face stays square to it's path, and when I swing correctly, I can knock the snot out of the ball, dead straight, from that top position. Not trying to boast, but offer evidence that lifting the arms is not necessary for power.

Are the arms actually lifting independent of the shoulder turn or just being moved at the same angle as the shoulder turn ? If Dan stood up straight, would his arms appear lifted ?

#30 QB74

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 11:12 AM

Thank you Jim for the clarification. That makes sense now. Looking forward to watching your new videos.


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