[Sean2]

I've tried every driver out there. Experimented with different lengths, and different shafts, been fitted and had some lessons. Sure, on occasion I can nail one, but more often than not I am wildly inconsistent.

Went back to using a 3-wood off the tee. Doesn't go as far, but it rarely strays from the fairway.

All in all very frustrating!

[teespoon]

I don't get more than 15 Yards more than 3W with my Driver, but the Nak HL at 44" has been a real fairway finder for me. I am also experimenting with a sub 11 oz D at 44 also, and it is L flex. Where did the swingspeed go? Time and the river, past 65, I guess.

teespoon

[HackerD]

Wishon and others recommend most golfers could control driver better with a shorter (than standard) shaft and more loft. Looks like your 3-wood is 13* so in essence you are there.

[BogeysBGone]

Avatar, on Nov 3 2008, 06:23 AM, said:

I've tried every driver out there. Experimented with different lengths, and different shafts, been fitted and had some lessons. Sure, on occasion I can nail one, but more often than not I am wildly inconsistent.

Went back to using a 3-wood off the tee. Doesn't go as far, but it rarely strays from the fairway.

All in all very frustrating!

Have you tried a new swing? and/or are you teeing the ball high enough?

Two different suggestions - but just guessing as to your problems:

1) Tee the ball so that it's 2/3rds above the top of your driver - but swing the driver as you would a 3 wood. Don't focus on the ball sitting on the tee, focus on trying to hit the ball as if it was on the ground. It may shallow out your swing. A lot of times when you see the ball up in the air on a tee - you over-correct and try to lift the ball higher.

On a three wood you're trying to skim the bottom of the club along the grass; or bring it level to the ground; or hitting down on the ball (whatever swing image works for you and your 3 wood).

Just try to keep that same swing image in your head, when using driver and try and clip the tee in the ground (forget about being ball focused).


2) Try swinging at 62.5% - 78.4% :-) I say that b/c anything less and you'll swing at 1/2 speed or slower; and any more than that, you'll swing like you normally swing. :-)

Good luck.

[Sean2]

Thank you for the tips!

BogeysBGone, on Nov 3 2008, 08:42 AM, said:

Avatar, on Nov 3 2008, 06:23 AM, said:

I've tried every driver out there. Experimented with different lengths, and different shafts, been fitted and had some lessons. Sure, on occasion I can nail one, but more often than not I am wildly inconsistent.

Went back to using a 3-wood off the tee. Doesn't go as far, but it rarely strays from the fairway.

All in all very frustrating!

Have you tried a new swing? and/or are you teeing the ball high enough?

Two different suggestions - but just guessing as to your problems:

1) Tee the ball so that it's 2/3rds above the top of your driver - but swing the driver as you would a 3 wood. Don't focus on the ball sitting on the tee, focus on trying to hit the ball as if it was on the ground. It may shallow out your swing. A lot of times when you see the ball up in the air on a tee - you over-correct and try to lift the ball higher.

On a three wood you're trying to skim the bottom of the club along the grass; or bring it level to the ground; or hitting down on the ball (whatever swing image works for you and your 3 wood).

Just try to keep that same swing image in your head, when using driver and try and clip the tee in the ground (forget about being ball focused).


2) Try swinging at 62.5% - 78.4% :-) I say that b/c anything less and you'll swing at 1/2 speed or slower; and any more than that, you'll swing like you normally swing. :-)

Good luck.

[Boba]

How about one of these @ 43"

[NiftyNiblick]

I hit my driver on four holes. On those holes, it can go almost anywhere and I'll still have a shot. So those are the only holes on which I can hit my driver straight. A mind is a terrible thing to use on the golf course.

The Rhapsody pictured above is an excellent senior driver, by the way. I'm glad that Ping had the decency not to make it pink or something like that.

[BogeysBGone]

Avatar, on Nov 4 2008, 01:16 AM, said:

Thank you for the tips!

BogeysBGone, on Nov 3 2008, 08:42 AM, said:

Avatar, on Nov 3 2008, 06:23 AM, said:

I've tried every driver out there. Experimented with different lengths, and different shafts, been fitted and had some lessons. Sure, on occasion I can nail one, but more often than not I am wildly inconsistent.

Went back to using a 3-wood off the tee. Doesn't go as far, but it rarely strays from the fairway.

All in all very frustrating!

Have you tried a new swing? and/or are you teeing the ball high enough?

Two different suggestions - but just guessing as to your problems:

1) Tee the ball so that it's 2/3rds above the top of your driver - but swing the driver as you would a 3 wood. Don't focus on the ball sitting on the tee, focus on trying to hit the ball as if it was on the ground. It may shallow out your swing. A lot of times when you see the ball up in the air on a tee - you over-correct and try to lift the ball higher.

On a three wood you're trying to skim the bottom of the club along the grass; or bring it level to the ground; or hitting down on the ball (whatever swing image works for you and your 3 wood).

Just try to keep that same swing image in your head, when using driver and try and clip the tee in the ground (forget about being ball focused).


2) Try swinging at 62.5% - 78.4% :-) I say that b/c anything less and you'll swing at 1/2 speed or slower; and any more than that, you'll swing like you normally swing. :-)

Good luck.

You're welcome.

If you can hit your 3 wood it means that you are doing things correctly in the swing.

Trick #1 is making the same swing with driver, except the tee is the ball (you're ignoring the ball itself) and it gives you a chance to swing/release the driver as you would a 3 wood. You have already pre-set the ball height on the tee and assuming you skim the grass (as you would a 3 wood) the ball MUST hit the upper center of the face - which is a driver's sweet/hot spot (not the absolute center of the driver face).

Trick #2 - by slowing your swing down just a bit - you will probably make better contact on the sweet/hot spot....and get all the distance you can handle. As you build confidence you can swing harder...but still in control - leading to better performance.

Good luck.

[mont86]

I had to quit trying to smash the ball. I'm only hitting 220 yards anyway. but love to let the big dog run.

[Sean2]

Yeah, I have a tendency to over swing with the driver. Played today with my 3-wood off the tee and hit every fairway but two.

Need to get to the range. :-)

[BogeysBGone]

Avatar, on Nov 4 2008, 09:07 PM, said:

Yeah, I have a tendency to over swing with the driver. Played today with my 3-wood off the tee and hit every fairway but two.

Need to get to the range. :-)

IMHO driver is definitely one of those clubs where you really need to "let the club do the work".

Go to the range - hit at 50%, 75% and maybe 80% EFFORT (I know it sounds funny). Note the dispersion and distance. Now try to bust a few as hard as you can - and watch the distance. I'll bet you hit a better shot with most of your 75%'s than you do at 100%. I would also bet that you will have a longer average, if not longer total distance with the 75% swing, than the 100% swing.

If not - try a softer shaft. It took me a long time to figure this out - that more ooomph by your body, does not equate to more distance.

If you need proof - there is a thread for "95 mph swingers" that asks 1) what driver/shaft are you hitting and 2) how much distance are you getting - and while we all have different head/shaft makeup - the total distance among all of us is about the same.

Unless you really understand what makes good clubhead speed - I think that most amateurs simply try to muscle the ball - and the more muscle you use in a golf swing - imho - the SLOWER you will swing it. Muscles contract and restrict - you need them to be loosy goosey in order to generate speed.

Concentrate on solid contact and it will improve.

Then - after you start hitting fairways for a few rounds - now try the above test again at 50%, 75%, and 80% - but do it with a slow RELAXED (think "I'm made of oooey gooey rubber" as you swing) swing - and see what happens.

[linkslad]

I see good advice out there. I'll add some things I haven't seen here yet. I'm no teaching pro but I can share with
you my own troubles and some of the remedies. The driver for some reason causes us to do things we don't do
with our other clubs. Check to make sure you're not opening your shoulders too early on the downswing. It seems
like a no brainer but I see people doing it all the time. If your shoulders are open when you hit the ball you are going to spray the ball all over the place. The dreaded "coming over the top". Keep the weight back and let your shoulders
unwind naturally. You want them parallel or slightly closed when you make contact with the ball.
The other problem I had was standing too far from the ball at address. This problem can creep up on you over time
if you're not careful with your pre-shot routine. If you have strayed too far from the ball you risk coming back down
from too far inside. If you notice you are hitting a lot of pushed fade drives this could be a problem.
You should address your drives the same as other shots, with your arms hanging freely in front of you with no
reaching or stretching.
If none of this helps, pick up a John Jacobs book on Golf. He will show you how to diagnose and correct your faults
by watching your ball flight. For example, the simple fault of coming over the top will cause you to pull some drives
and slice others. It's all science and he does it in a way that's easy to understand.

[liciouz]

bogeysbgone, that sounds a good tip. i might try that tom. have the same problem as avatar, been using my 3 wood most of the time because of lack of confidence on my driver. ive tried almost all the newest driver released to see if tech can fix my swing. looks like the tm tour burner tp is the right one. still not that consistent on it though its a lot better than the others i had.

[Sean2]

Thanks for the tips.

I'm going to try my old driver, circa 2005, while incorporating your tips. I hit the old one fairly well.

[HackerD]

I read in golf digest some quick and easy tips for hitting solid driver. Apparently many amateurs don't do these:
1) Stand close enough to ball (linkslad's comment above); most people stand too far from ball.
2) Wide stance, feet just a bit outside shoulders; most people's stance too narrow.
3) Play ball off left heel; most play it too far back in stance.
These have become my checklist for driver and it's helped.

[Hux]

For some time I didn't carry any woods in my bag. Being in my mid to late 20's and fairly tall and strong I could make do without them. My 2 iron was all I need to happily conquere all but the longest par 4 in 2 comfy shots. I did it because the woods would spray but the irons were like rods...straight and long.

I then went back to the woods but must say I never played them where danger lay nearby, prefering the safe option.
Now days I have my big stick and must say that either I changed or the drivers changed but now its a heck of a lot more reliable.

I guess my point is - you can survive without a driver, probably even thrive as your iron striking improves out of sight when you only have the one long option. However, nothing like that 250metre drive to make the long holes seem shorter.

[NiftyNiblick]

13º fairway metals are really two-woods and make good drivers for many seniors.

Some like the low profile type so that they can tee the ball very low and not have to play the ball quite as forward in the stance.

It's like getting rid of a specialty shot for a standard shot, really, and works for plenty of golfers.

Also, when we get to the point of serious swing speed issues, driving with a 15º is not a bad thing either.

[Usid]

I use ping rapture 3-wood as driver. Almost 10-15 yds shorter but 70% more accurate than my G10 driver.

[GenErr]

I've never been, nor ever will be a great driver. Until metal wood technology I always played a 2-wood, and even used the Callaway "the deuce" at one time.

However, for the past 2 years I've been hitting the Taylor Made Burner HT (high trajectory) with a lot of success. Its 13.5 degrees I think, and super easy to hit. I've even had success hitting it from the fairway (unless it is really close cropped).

Many manufacturers now produce drivers with increased loft. Maybe try one of them?

Just a thought.

[kekoa]

I'm totally opposite. Can hit my driver well, but can not find or hit a 3 wood for the life of me.

[FlyFish]

It's the indian - not the arrow. If you are not making progress with your current PGA instructor, find another one.

[porkman]

+1 on John Jacobs books.

[weten2]

Avatar;
I noticed you have a Geek Fail Safe 3, 12 deg. I have a 90ish ss and have the Geek DCT 12 deg with a Creation firm shaft built by Bryant Brothers on line. I hit this club straight but low. I've been told this is probably too stiff and the head is low spin and I'm not getting enough height on my drives which makes it harder to find fairways.
Recently I have tried two freinds drivers on two different occaisons. A TM Burner 9.5 deg stiff standard and a Cobra F LD 10.5 regular stock. Both of these clubs were easy to hit higher giving me longer straight shots than what I would get with my three wood. You should try different heads and shafts. You may not be getting enough spin for your swing speed. The above two heads I think are more geared for forgiveness and the Geek heads more for a high swing speed lower handicap.

[linkslad]

Avatar, I noticed you're now carrying a TEE CB2 3 wood. I'm sold on the titanuim cup face. A friend of
mine had a Mactec LVG2 3 wood with the titanium cup face and that club was looooooong. I looked for
one for a month and could only find the draw version so last Friday I picked up a TEE XCG 3 wood 15 with
the stock quad x shaft on Ebay. I won't be home for awhile to try it out unfortunately. My thought is it
will also serve as a back up driver. How are you liking your CB2 and is it helping with distance?

[linkslad]

Avatar, Ooops, I see you have the 4 wood not 3 wood. Even so, how do you like it??

[NiftyNiblick]

I've got a new driver which fits very well in terms of lie angle, swingweight, shaft...all the fitting metrics.

Still, at my smartest, the driver serves soley as a hat rack for my signature beagle headcover.
At my dumbest, I play it on four wide open holes at my club.

This is the thing. I don't slice...ever, unless I purposely hit an unsubtle banana to get around a tree.

What I can very easily do with specifically the driver, however,
is hit a dead push right when I'm playing for my usual draw.

There's one hole in particular where even in my dreams I can often see my ball crash into the skyscraping pines just as it's trying to come back. Those are loosely spaced pines, mind you. Were they thick woods with underbrush, the driver would never have left the bag.

When I do that push thing, I might already know that I'm looking at a big, ugly, number after just one swing.

[warbirdlover]

There are drivers out there that will help you! Ping G10, Cally FTi or FTiq come to mind. Also the square Nike. These all work. If you slice you get the draw or offset versions.

[bovi]

if you hit your 3 wood great, the core issue might be too long a driver as others have said.

The key might be to get a High loft driver (12 deg or more) that suits your eye, same length (or 1/2 inch more) and swing weight & similar overall weight as your 3wood. might be wise to get the driver loft measured to get the true loft. a decent clubmaker can make a driver out of component parts rather cheaply and more to spec than buying off the shelf.

also i've heard from a pro that if you aren't swinging fast enough, you won't get benefit out of a driver over 3 wood since the loft of the driver is too low for your swing speed.

[monkeyboy]

Take the @$300 you would spend on a new driver and invest in @4 lessons
spread them out over a full season and practice...really practice in between.

[Jenner]

Had the same problem for a long time and played off the tee with a Ping TiSI Tec 14 degree 3 Wood - excellent club. Then tried a 13.5 degree Ping G5 driver with a stock shaft - didn't work. Changed the shaft to a regular flex Grafalloy 55 gram ProLaunch Blue and shortened the overall length to 45 inches - much better.

After trying numerous drivers and shafts, I've now settled with a Ping 12 degree offset G5 fitted with the A flex Harrison Mugen (red) Shaft and am really pleased with the results. Being a late starter to golf and also well into my senior years, my drives are never going have the 'wow' factor but my current driver set-up is giving my drives a (mostly) straight flight of well over 200 yards before touchdown, which is quite an improvement on all of my previous combinations and I firmly believe that the Harrison Mugen Shaft has a lot to do with it.............I'm now going to try Teespoon's suggestion and shorten the shaft by another half-an-inch or so and see if I can squeeze out a few more yards.

The only other comment I would make is that golfing wisdom has it that you would definitely hit straighter tee-shots and find more fairways with a higher lofted driver than the 10.5 degree you currently have in your bag - but I guess you know that already.

In my case I suspect it's the indian and not the arrow but I'm having a lot of fun trying to prove otherwise !

[sanderslongdrive]

I liked BogeysBGone's advice. Very sound.

If there is a secret to successful driving it is to begin to appreciate that the difference between a long iron and a driver is like the difference between between a motor car and a lorry. They both can be driven a fair way but one is much longer and needs special handling and respect otherwise you end up parked in a ditch. They do not look so different but the approach to each is poles apart.

A lot of players, if they think about their driver at all, possibly see it as a longer version of an iron which one simply takes a little further back on the back swing. With that attitude then the advice given by others in this thread is spot on - use a shorter driver and continue swinging it like a long iron.

How then should one swing a driver?

With a much wider stance, with much more marked weight transfer and re-transfer, on a longer inside swing plane, with far far more body coiling, with a better gradual acceleration into attack, with hips and back and legs featuring as the primary sources of power (not the arms), and a fully committed follow through.

Hitting a driver well does not naturally follow from striking irons well. A far more sophisticated swing is required and until such time as this is accepted and worked on improvement is extremely difficult. The answer never lies in a new driver until such time as one has mastered a sound driver's swing.

A weighted driver eg. 650 grammes is an extremely good training tool, as is a Whippy Tempomaster. But the latter takes a lot of practice!

[bovi]

sanderslongdrive, on Mar 11 2009, 03:11 PM, said:

I liked BogeysBGone's advice. Very sound.

If there is a secret to successful driving it is to begin to appreciate that the difference between a long iron and a driver is like the difference between between a motor car and a lorry. They both can be driven a fair way but one is much longer and needs special handling and respect otherwise you end up parked in a ditch. They do not look so different but the approach to each is poles apart.

A lot of players, if they think about their driver at all, possibly see it as a longer version of an iron which one simply takes a little further back on the back swing. With that attitude then the advice given by others in this thread is spot on - use a shorter driver and continue swinging it like a long iron.

How then should one swing a driver?

With a much wider stance, with much more marked weight transfer and re-transfer, on a longer inside swing plane, with far far more body coiling, with a better gradual acceleration into attack, with hips and back and legs featuring as the primary sources of power (not the arms), and a fully committed follow through.

Hitting a driver well does not naturally follow from striking irons well. A far more sophisticated swing is required and until such time as this is accepted and worked on improvement is extremely difficult. The answer never lies in a new driver until such time as one has mastered a sound driver's swing.

A weighted driver eg. 650 grammes is an extremely good training tool, as is a Whippy Tempomaster. But the latter takes a lot of practice!

I'd like to give my own opinion of this as from personal experience and talking to teaching pros a different point of view should be given.

The point is to always have the same swing for all clubs. the only difference between driver and irons is setup. this way you have consistency through the bag. if you want 1 seperate swing for the driver to squeeze out that 10 - 20 yards, you can. but you'll blow hot and cold & get wilder drives. 1 day good with the driver, crap with the irons and vice versa.

so dont see it as a longer inside, far more body coil, longer backswing etc as this will all happen since the driver is a longer club. the point is understand why the swing will look & feel different because of the club length and setup. besides, a fully committed follow through, leg and core power is for all clubs.

a repeatable golf swing will lower scores. 2 different swings with different thoughts makes it much harder.

on a seperate note :

why do women golfers drive straighter than men? its because they don't have the "Kill the ball" mentality. unless you have the same mentality with all your other clubs and its bringing your success, you shouldn't with your driver.

[bovi]

to the OP :

hope you find the solution(s) to your problem. i think everything has been covered - new equipment, lessons, new swing, mentality.

Personally i'd say - budget permitting - to find an instructor who is a good clubmaker so that after understanding / analysing your swing he'd be able to advise if a new driver will help.

would be interested to hear when and how you've solved it.

[Greg45]

I hit my 3W as good if not better than my driver. I have pretty much reached the same conclusion.

Who says you have to use a driver anyway?

[BogeysBGone]

bovi, on Mar 12 2009, 02:58 AM, said:

sanderslongdrive, on Mar 11 2009, 03:11 PM, said:

I liked BogeysBGone's advice. Very sound.

If there is a secret to successful driving it is to begin to appreciate that the difference between a long iron and a driver is like the difference between between a motor car and a lorry. They both can be driven a fair way but one is much longer and needs special handling and respect otherwise you end up parked in a ditch. They do not look so different but the approach to each is poles apart.

A lot of players, if they think about their driver at all, possibly see it as a longer version of an iron which one simply takes a little further back on the back swing. With that attitude then the advice given by others in this thread is spot on - use a shorter driver and continue swinging it like a long iron.

How then should one swing a driver?

With a much wider stance, with much more marked weight transfer and re-transfer, on a longer inside swing plane, with far far more body coiling, with a better gradual acceleration into attack, with hips and back and legs featuring as the primary sources of power (not the arms), and a fully committed follow through.

Hitting a driver well does not naturally follow from striking irons well. A far more sophisticated swing is required and until such time as this is accepted and worked on improvement is extremely difficult. The answer never lies in a new driver until such time as one has mastered a sound driver's swing.

A weighted driver eg. 650 grammes is an extremely good training tool, as is a Whippy Tempomaster. But the latter takes a lot of practice!

I'd like to give my own opinion of this as from personal experience and talking to teaching pros a different point of view should be given.

The point is to always have the same swing for all clubs. the only difference between driver and irons is setup. this way you have consistency through the bag. if you want 1 seperate swing for the driver to squeeze out that 10 - 20 yards, you can. but you'll blow hot and cold & get wilder drives. 1 day good with the driver, crap with the irons and vice versa.

so dont see it as a longer inside, far more body coil, longer backswing etc as this will all happen since the driver is a longer club. the point is understand why the swing will look & feel different because of the club length and setup. besides, a fully committed follow through, leg and core power is for all clubs.

a repeatable golf swing will lower scores. 2 different swings with different thoughts makes it much harder.

on a seperate note :

why do women golfers drive straighter than men? its because they don't have the "Kill the ball" mentality. unless you have the same mentality with all your other clubs and its bringing your success, you shouldn't with your driver.

If you are being specific - I do not agree that you have the same swing on all clubs....unless you are talking about arm motion/rotation. I am also assuming you are using the same ball position relative to your left heel? (So that only the width of your stance changes)?

Among some differences: A Driver is hitting a tee'd ball and the farthest away from you and the widest stance; and you hit up on it (club head/ shaft/left arm are just past "straight in a line" at impact); whereas a SW is the closest to you and the narrowest stance, the ball is on the ground, and the hands are past the ball at impact b/t ball and clubhead (descending blow).

If you hit a driver like an iron (with hands past the ball) it delofts the driver; and if you hit an iron on the up swing - you will blade it.

I agree that the timing, tempo, and general feeling of the shots is the same, but the angle of descent is definitely different imho, vs hitting a driver.

[Sean2]

thanks gents. i've taken some lessons and been fitted for a driver. things are starting to click in place. just need to be a little bit patient, and not try to kill the ball. :-)

[LOVE4LPGA]

I'm with you. How bad off are we?

My friends with drivers get a ton of pitching and saves practice.

I just smile and tell them how much I admire their distance.