[HCEG1]

Lefty is mulling over whether he could become part of the European tour next season.

The 'Race to Dubai' will change the European tour beyond recognition over the next 5 years. Next November will see the end of season tournament played in Dubai for the richest prize in world golf and only the top 60 Euro tour players will be eligible. Tiger has been considering it (and has interests in the golf course he has designed over there) as have many other PGA stars, including Vijay and Allenby. Adam Scott is also very keen to make the move.

The European tour tournament Players Committee is meeting next week to re- consider the entry requirements with the obvious possibility of reducing the present limit of 11 events.

The European tour is about to start its journey to a significantly higher level, with obvious ramifications for the PGA tour. Factor in the enormous wealth of several of the Middle Eastern countries and the continuing financial problems in the USA (and the obvious effect on sponsorship) and it's not difficult to see that the future of the world's two main tours is about to change massively........

http://www.telegraph...our---Golf.html

http://edition.cnn.c.../19/golf.dubai/

[mat562]

If the European Tour is really serious about attracting the very best players to this end-of-season jamboree in Arabia then they really do need to look objectively at the qualifying criteria and be pragmatic with regards to the minimum number of events a player will be obligated to play. Admittedly, some of the bigger events are co-sanctioned with the PGA Tour, but many players simply can't (or won't) play a punishing schedule in Europe on top of a statutory number of events in the US and other events that may appeal to them.

Els is about the only player in recent years who's been truly 'global' with any degree of success - and he's stated in the past that it occasionally got a bit much and resulted in his play suffering.

A move to something like 11 events will mean that the prospect of dual membership becomes viable for at least some of the big names and that can only be a benefit for the Tour.

[stealthontour]

Mickelson WILL join the European tour next season, he's just waiting until after the Tour Championship to announce it....

he only needs to play 11 events, and with 4 Majors, 4 WGC's, plus he already plays in the HSBC Champions, Barclays Scottish Open and Barclays Singapore Open..... 'voila' 11 events... there is a rumour it may be moved up to 12 events, but Phil could easily add another event that wouldn't effect his current PGA Tour schedule.

[HCEG1]

mat562, on Sep 27 2008, 09:15 PM, said:

If the European Tour is really serious about attracting the very best players to this end-of-season jamboree in Arabia then they really do need to look objectively at the qualifying criteria and be pragmatic with regards to the minimum number of events a player will be obligated to play. Admittedly, some of the bigger events are co-sanctioned with the PGA Tour, but many players simply can't (or won't) play a punishing schedule in Europe on top of a statutory number of events in the US and other events that may appeal to them.

Els is about the only player in recent years who's been truly 'global' with any degree of success - and he's stated in the past that it occasionally got a bit much and resulted in his play suffering.

A move to something like 11 events will mean that the prospect of dual membership becomes viable for at least some of the big names and that can only be a benefit for the Tour.

It already is only 11 events and that includes the Majors and WGC events, effectively making it only 4. Chairman Thomas Bjorn (the original Ambassador of 'Golf in Dubai') and his mates will meet next week and you have to assume that that the criteria will be lowered

The European tour doesn't need to do anything to attract the top players to the richest event in world golf, they are already totally fired up and it's pretty much the foremost thought on their minds for coming season.

Money talks!

[mat562]

I didn't know that. Or, more accurately, I wasn't aware until I just checked how many events are co-sanctioned - aside from the obvious ones like the Open Championship etc. For some reason I'd got '15' in my head as the minimum number - which is apparently wrong.

I agree, when you look at it, it's very do-able when you put yourself in the position of a top pro with access to private aviation. As long as the xchedules are compatible and don't involve criss-crossing the globe too much, I could see quite a few players giving it due consideration; particularly given all the glitz and fanfare surrounding this Race to Dubai finale. I'm sure that it will be a profitable venture for many of the big names.

The European Tour has expanded magnificently in the last couple of decades and the only real limiting factor is the golfing version of 'brain drain' when the players migrate to the US after a few years. Keeping some of the bigger names on-side, as well as attracting new ones from the U.S. has to be a good thing.

[skinkman]

not all bad
i don't see him playing the tough conditions the Euro tour players frequently play in the British Isles. Of course he can choose the big publicity events..HSBC, Dubai, Wentworth, of course all 4 majors count towards that....interesting though. with Tiger on the PGA, and the rise of the younglings, I am not sure he will be missed much...Europe would gain however but the gain would be Mickelson's. More recognition and learning more skills..playing the ball under the wind..something he's not very good at..hence his ONE top ten in the British Open his entire career..with all his so called talent in the short game and imagination, that proves that he lacks an all round ability to adjust..this could be a good move for him..in the long run..probably should have done that years ago.

[dlygrisse]

I really wish there were more of a world tour, a true tour, starting in south Asia, Austrialia, South Africa, Dubai, then Hawaii, through the USA and then back to Europe. It would delete many of the minor events in the US and Europe, but they could be absored bu the Nationwide tour etc. I know the tours want ot maintain thier identiy but I would love to see the best in the world moving in tandem playing each other a good portion of the year. Of course Greg Norman wanted to make this happen years ago and really ruffled some feathers, but with the WGC events, and majors the elite players essentially have their own world tour anyway.

[Viking Golfer]

We will see a totally different tour next year - on both sides of the Atlantic

US economy is in pain, and the Middle East oil people are trying to find new areas, where they can play with their money.

Football (for the US guys - SOCCER) club Manchester City was recently bought by an extremely wealthy group of people from the Middle East (other very very rich guys already own football clubs like Liverpool, Chelsea, Manchester United & Newcastle) - and next in line is golf, a logical move with all the touring pro's involved in golf course design in the middle eastern area.

NHL (National Hockey League) in the US is in pain and soon we will see sponsors in other sports trying to limit their budgets in the US because of the financial crisis there, and this will turn focus away from the US and over to where the money still is - Europe, Middle East and later on China/Taiwan/Singapore

My guess is that we will see 8/10 in the worlds Top 10 competing in the "Race to Dubai" on the Euro Tour next year - this will add an extra month to the golf season for the spectators, which is good fun for us golf freaks

The Euro Tour is the only truly global tour right now - my guess is that within 5 years time, we will see the Euro Tour played in Argentina, Columbia and Brazil.

[HCEG1]

skinkman, on Sep 27 2008, 10:32 PM, said:

not all bad
i don't see him playing the tough conditions the Euro tour players frequently play in the British Isles. Of course he can choose the big publicity events..HSBC, Dubai, Wentworth, of course all 4 majors count towards that....interesting though. with Tiger on the PGA, and the rise of the younglings, I am not sure he will be missed much...Europe would gain however but the gain would be Mickelson's. More recognition and learning more skills..playing the ball under the wind..something he's not very good at..hence his ONE top ten in the British Open his entire career..with all his so called talent in the short game and imagination, that proves that he lacks an all round ability to adjust..this could be a good move for him..in the long run..probably should have done that years ago.

There are only 9 events in the British Isles, out of 52 tournaments throughout the 'European' tour year

It's European in name only, especially early in the season, with events being held in China, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Australia, S.Africa, N. Zealand, the Middle East, India, Korea and Malaysia. Later in the season, it does visit Europe, eg, Spain, France, Italy, Switzerland, Sweden, Austria, Russia, Portugal, etc... much more like a world tour really

[Asleep]

I had no idea Dubai was in Europe.

[Viking Golfer]

Asleep, on Sep 28 2008, 12:21 AM, said:

I had no idea Dubai was in Europe.

Last year, when the European Tour decided to end the season in the MIddle East - "The race to Dubai", they in fact considered changing the name to "The World Tour" but because "The European Tour" as a brand name is so strong as it is, they decided to keep the original name, while still trying to make it a real would tour.

[flubbed_it]

I gather Tim Finchem is quite aggressive and put the minimum events for Euro players to 15. I'm not sure when the Euro tour put the minimum events for U.S players up but I believe they did that in response to that.

Norman talks quite bitterly in his autobiography about Finchem's underhand practices in blocking his world tour plans and then stealing his ideas. He believes a lot of pressure was put on players who had supported the idea and they suddenly withdrew their support.

They are competing against one another and the Euro tours expansion is a good brand strategy that adds value to the tour and the sponsors. Upsetting the Asian tour might come back to haunt them, I think they could be the dominant tour economically in the future.

[kemau]

here's what we were saying back in july...

Phil Mickelson Rumour, Playing full time on the European Tour in 2009?

[Tmiller72]

ClubHoUno, on Sep 27 2008, 05:44 PM, said:

We will see a totally different tour next year - on both sides of the Atlantic

US economy is in pain, and the Middle East oil people are trying to find new areas, where they can play with their money.

Football (for the US guys - SOCCER) club Manchester City was recently bought by an extremely wealthy group of people from the Middle East (other very very rich guys already own football clubs like Liverpool, Chelsea, Manchester United & Newcastle) - and next in line is golf, a logical move with all the touring pro's involved in golf course design in the middle eastern area.

NHL (National Hockey League) in the US is in pain and soon we will see sponsors in other sports trying to limit their budgets in the US because of the financial crisis there, and this will turn focus away from the US and over to where the money still is - Europe, Middle East and later on China/Taiwan/Singapore

My guess is that we will see 8/10 in the worlds Top 10 competing in the "Race to Dubai" on the Euro Tour next year - this will add an extra month to the golf season for the spectators, which is good fun for us golf freaks

The Euro Tour is the only truly global tour right now - my guess is that within 5 years time, we will see the Euro Tour played in Argentina, Columbia and Brazil.

I thought Man U was owned by an American? The same guy that owns the Tampa Bay Bucs.

[Viking Golfer]

Tmiller72, on Sep 28 2008, 02:24 AM, said:

ClubHoUno, on Sep 27 2008, 05:44 PM, said:

We will see a totally different tour next year - on both sides of the Atlantic

US economy is in pain, and the Middle East oil people are trying to find new areas, where they can play with their money.

Football (for the US guys - SOCCER) club Manchester City was recently bought by an extremely wealthy group of people from the Middle East (other very very rich guys already own football clubs like Liverpool, Chelsea, Manchester United & Newcastle) - and next in line is golf, a logical move with all the touring pro's involved in golf course design in the middle eastern area.

NHL (National Hockey League) in the US is in pain and soon we will see sponsors in other sports trying to limit their budgets in the US because of the financial crisis there, and this will turn focus away from the US and over to where the money still is - Europe, Middle East and later on China/Taiwan/Singapore

My guess is that we will see 8/10 in the worlds Top 10 competing in the "Race to Dubai" on the Euro Tour next year - this will add an extra month to the golf season for the spectators, which is good fun for us golf freaks

The Euro Tour is the only truly global tour right now - my guess is that within 5 years time, we will see the Euro Tour played in Argentina, Columbia and Brazil.

I thought Man U was owned by an American? The same guy that owns the Tampa Bay Bucs.

Correct - my mistake
His name is Malcolm Glazer.

Funny thing is that he isn't even rich enough. It's a miracle he hasn't sold Ronaldo yet to cash in the money he could get for him.
Compared to the owners of Chelsea, Man City and Milan - Glazer is considered a poor man

[Tmiller72]

Please don't kill yourself!

[xan_user]

Asleep, on Sep 27 2008, 03:21 PM, said:

I had no idea Dubai was in Europe.

They just fly it in for the tourney.

[Tmiller72]

Glazer is worth 2.5 billion. He better keep working!

[SwingLikeElk]

I'm still confused as to why anyone would downgrade to the European Tour. Jet lag, crummy conditions, smaller purses, the need for the whole Dubai thing to bail them out. Very odd.

Every player on the PGA Tour had the opportunity to steal the $10,000,000 that Vijay will win tomorrow and can always experience being waited on hand and foot, playing on perfectly manicured courses, and achieve success on many different levels here on U.S. soil...not to mention no state tax in some states.

The European Tour is wonderful but the U.S Tour is dramatically superior to ALL tours combined. To defect for economic reasons is ludicrous. Our sticky economy will turn around sooner rather than later, probably in 60-90 days. The sky isn't falling...people watch too much TV.

If a guy is trying to be a "global" golfer, how much better will the competition be than going up against Phil, Tiger, Furyk and AK here in the states? Are there better courses, players and opportunities somewhere out there that I've not heard of???

No offense to Old Tom, The R & A, The Loch Ness Monster or Lee Westwood but the pinnacle of this sport rests in The United States.

[bjdrivers]

I enjoy watching the European Tour as much as I do the PGA. I enjoy seeing those scottish & Irish courses, and watching players that I've never heard of that have a lot of talent. Won't bother me if the guys move over there to play as long as it's on TGCHD

[flubbed_it]

SwingLikeElk, on Sep 28 2008, 02:05 AM, said:

I'm still confused as to why anyone would downgrade to the European Tour. Jet lag, crummy conditions, smaller purses, the need for the whole Dubai thing to bail them out. Very odd.

Every player on the PGA Tour had the opportunity to steal the $10,000,000 that Vijay will win tomorrow and can always experience being waited on hand and foot, playing on perfectly manicured courses, and achieve success on many different levels here on U.S. soil...not to mention no state tax in some states.

The European Tour is wonderful but the U.S Tour is dramatically superior to ALL tours combined. To defect for economic reasons is ludicrous. Our sticky economy will turn around sooner rather than later, probably in 60-90 days. The sky isn't falling...people watch too much TV.

If a guy is trying to be a "global" golfer, how much better will the competition be than going up against Phil, Tiger, Furyk and AK here in the states? Are there better courses, players and opportunities somewhere out there that I've not heard of???

No offense to Old Tom, The R & A, The Loch Ness Monster or Lee Westwood but the pinnacle of this sport rests in The United States.

We need a special subscription to see the u.s pga over here and i've cancelled mine. The courses are so "manicured" they all seem the same to me and to be honest, everyone has given up on winning while tiger is around. There are players over there I enjoy watching but apart from Augusta (which looks like my grannies garden), all the courses look pretty much the same.

Nobody is being bailed out by Dubai, the European Tour is more profitable than it has ever been, it has just expanded for commercial reasons.

Your economy, along with ours is not expected to recover for at least 18 months or so if all the experts both sides of the pond are to be believed. However this has nothing to do with why some of your players may or may not "defect". They will be on the gravy train and they won't be looking back.

There are better courses, Loch Lomond, St Andrews, thinking about it ....... all of the links, Wentworth, Sunningdale and all the other Surrey heathland courses are some of the most naturally beautiful landscapes in the world and while we are at it, South Africa has some of the best courses in the world.

Better players ? a matter of opinion I suppose, your very best players compete well and win tournaments here but not many others.

The u.s tour isn't superior in my view, it is unique but not superior. It is after all, one dimensional, fair weather golf.

[HCEG1]

Guys, I' amazed by your lack of knowledge about the European tour. No, Dubai isn't in Europe, nor are Australia, China, South Africa, South Korea, New Zealand and India! It's a world tour in disguise.

As for crummy conditions, please get a passport, jump on a plane and see the facilities in some of these venues

Ill repeat what I said about UK venues. Out of the 52 weeks on the European tour, 43 of these events are not played in the UK

http://www.europeant...amp;seasonid=79

[Viking Golfer]

Tmiller72, on Sep 28 2008, 02:33 AM, said:

Please don't kill yourself!

I had the impression you didn't like me and you would be the first person in line to put a bullet in my head

Ohhhhh.....maybe you're sarcastic and in fact like watching me playing Russian Roulette with myself.......

Tmiller72, on Sep 28 2008, 02:50 AM, said:

Glazer is worth 2.5 billion. He better keep working!

2.5 billion $ is not much, when you buy a football club worth 1-2 billion $ and owns an American football club on top of that - and you need to buy new players without raising ticket prices.

I'm sorry if I have a hard time explaining myself, but I believe I said: "Compared to the owners of Chelsea, Man City and Milan - Glazer is considered a poor man"

Compared to the owners of Chelsea and Manchester City - Glazer is a poor man.
Running a Soccer club and a Football club is expensive and you need a LOT of cash.

Glazer has a lot of his wealth tied up in these two clubs and therefore has limited funds to buy new players for the teams he owns.

The group that bought Manchester City is estimated worth more than 500 billion $.
They started their first day as owners of Manchester City bidding on all the great players in the world - 250 million $ bid on Christiano Ronaldo, 150 million $ bid on Van Niestelroy and so on. Glazer hasn't got the funds to place bids in that size

Glazers money is all tied up in his clubs - so he has very limited funds to purchase new players for - that makes him poor compared to the other club owners, I'm talking about - do you get it now

[Viking Golfer]

SwingLikeElk, on Sep 28 2008, 03:05 AM, said:

I'm still confused as to why anyone would downgrade to the European Tour. Jet lag, crummy conditions, smaller purses, the need for the whole Dubai thing to bail them out. Very odd.

Every player on the PGA Tour had the opportunity to steal the $10,000,000 that Vijay will win tomorrow and can always experience being waited on hand and foot, playing on perfectly manicured courses, and achieve success on many different levels here on U.S. soil...not to mention no state tax in some states.

The European Tour is wonderful but the U.S Tour is dramatically superior to ALL tours combined. To defect for economic reasons is ludicrous. Our sticky economy will turn around sooner rather than later, probably in 60-90 days. The sky isn't falling...people watch too much TV.

If a guy is trying to be a "global" golfer, how much better will the competition be than going up against Phil, Tiger, Furyk and AK here in the states? Are there better courses, players and opportunities somewhere out there that I've not heard of???

No offense to Old Tom, The R & A, The Loch Ness Monster or Lee Westwood but the pinnacle of this sport rests in The United States.

With all due respect - you post may be honest (unfortunately), but also very degrading, naive and nationalistic

I like watching the PGA tour as much as I like watching the Euro Tour - but all the courses on the PGA Tour quite frankly look the same. Very little variation - all perfectly manicured and all park courses. You have a hard time distinguish one course from another..........and that's quite frankly boring in the long run.

To be a world class golfer, you need to be able to play different course, in different climates, all over the world.
Philly Mick is a great golfer, but he can only play good on park courses, like on the PGA Tour. Vijay has won all over the world and is a true world player.
Philly Mick can't play the British Open, because he hasn't got the talent to play links golf.

Tiger is a true world class player and wins every where in the world, just like Vijay can.

[charlesdupuy]

I'm not sure that down grading the total number of events any further than 11 is really necessary, there are already 4 majors and 3 WGC events that the top 10 crew will already be playing in, they should be made to come and support the tour and play more regularly if they want a shot at the big prize. As someone pointed out Phil could all but qualify by playing in events that he really only shows up to at the moment because the sponsors pay him a bucket load, plus the majors and WGCs.

SwingLikeElk's comments about 'downgrading' to the European Tour, aside from being in stark contrast to my own opinion do bring about one good point. He suggests the conditions on the European Tour are inferior, and granted the US Parkland Courses are very well looked after, but at the majority of Euro Tour events the course conditions are fantastic. The point being that there are a few (mostly Northern Europe) when the greens in particular are a little below the normal standard, and the reason for this is because the grasses aren't natural to the environment. These tend to be the resort courses, which do have a lot of advantages for a tour event, but I'd really like to see the the natural links and heathland courses used a lot more for European Tour events. These courses were built before you seeded the green with foreign grass, and therefore are a lot more manageable in a changeable climate. Wouldn't we be far better of having events at Walton Heath, Sunningdale, or the like as opposed to The Belfry, the new course at Gleneagles and St. Mellion (English Open next year)? Having said that The London Club was brilliant this year and I really think that we should have more visits to The Grove which was stunning in 2006 for the Am-Ex.

Anyway the point being the European Tour already has plenty of parkland layouts in the Med and Far East so why can't we play solely traditional courses when it comes to the UK.

[Stenson]

At the WGC at The Grove, London, where Tiger won, he said the greens were the best greens he had ever putted on?

The PGA Tour is the big tour because of the money, if the money was on the European Tour all the good player's would be playing in Europe. I think with the Dubai idea coming in, we will see a turning point in the way the tours are looked at.

[mat562]

Good points, and I couldn't agree more about the tradiotional heathland and links layouts.

Sadly, in the case of Walton Heath, Sunningdale, Woburn etc, the courses simply can't be stretched out, yardage-wise, to accomodate the modern male professional game, so it's unlikely we'll be rolling back the clock and seeing them used as they used to be in the European Open and British Masters. I think a return of St. Mellion to the tournament rota is fantastic news though. I was lucky enough to play there a fair bit in my younger days and it really is a wonderful layout that apparently has been improved still further with some recent changes to bring it up to date and improve it's condition.

In relation to some earlier comments, I don't honestly see the introduction of the arabian events as a 'bail out' at all; more as a natural progression of what was already an expanding tournament schedule - and a similar situation to the Fed Ex Cup series over in the U.S. The expansion into the lucrative markets of south east Asia and the middle east also bodes well for the future of the tour and can only enhance its status in coming years. If the fields can be strengthened and the issue of ranking points addressed I can see the tour very much competing against the PGA Tour as the premier professional tour in the game within a few years and it may mean that players aren't forced to 'downgrade' anymore or suffer those crummy conditions at dumps like Wentworth and the Emirates in future.

I'm glad to hear all this financial upheaval looks set to be sorted out by Christmas though. That really is good news.

[jaskanski]

I think something of a World Tour is closer now than it ever was when Greg Norman (very perceptively) dreamt of it some years ago. I agree that the (US) PGA Tour is a bit one-dimensional and consequently, dare I say it, boring to watch? This is due in some part to the equally one-dimensional Tim Finchem who in my opinion has stifled the natural progression of a global sport. Granted, the best players in the world favour the PGA Tour, but this is basically down to money available and a somewhat less arduous travel regime.
Greg was shrewd enough to spot how a World Tour with a smaller number events could tempt some of the best players and big name sponsors to generate larger purses to make up for fewer events.
The European Tour was and is, more of a worldwide event in both courses played and it's playing members. Why is this such a bad thing? (downgrade???) Surely the sponsors who put up the large purses for tour events would like more global exposure? Some of the "well known" sponsors in the US are unheard of over here.
A new "world tour" would certainly freshen up a rather stale PGA tour in terms of tv interest alone. Who wouldn't want to see the worlds best players on the worlds best courses? (they're NOT all in the US, you know!)
The main stumbling block still appears to be how the two tours can merge to become one "World Tour". How you go about getting a tour card for a World Tour is questionable. It seems obvious that it will be weighted to the worlds top 50 or so players - sort of like the premier league of golf.
Getting Phil on the European Tour would be like the start of true world tour and maybe others will follow in time.
But if anything can move a player to a particular tour or event, it's usually a big pile of cash. And Dubai has plenty of it.

[Ty_Webb]

mat562, on Sep 28 2008, 04:27 PM, said:

Sadly, in the case of Walton Heath, Sunningdale, Woburn etc, the courses simply can't be stretched out, yardage-wise, to accomodate the modern male professional game

That's not true of Walton Heath. The old course is nearly 7,500 yards from the back and they could make the combined course play over 7,700 yards if they wanted to, and that's without building any new tees. Walton won't get any tour events though because the nature of the game has changed. The clubs pay the tour for the right to hold an event and for a private members' club, that's just not feasible.

[mat562]

I'll take your word for it about Walton Heath. It's a long time since I managed to grace the fairways there but, even off the back tees, it played pretty short in summer conditions as I remember. My impression was that they were only able to get mega-yardage by using the composite set-up and messing about with different tee boxes - but I've been wrong before and seemingly am again.

I agree with you about the fact that the membership are likely to object to the fuss and expense that goes with a tournament though - albeit it's a fairly common moan at most established private courses; particularly in England.

[philfan316]

Can someone explain to me why the cameras in Britain have that foggy dullness to them. I mean, the shows, the sporting events, anything shot in Britain looks odd.

Can someone explain this to me?

[Viking Golfer]

philfan316, on Sep 29 2008, 04:25 AM, said:

Can someone explain to me why the cameras in Britain have that foggy dullness to them. I mean, the shows, the sporting events, anything shot in Britain looks odd.

Can someone explain this to me?

I think you should adjust your antenna cable or digital box - it's probably not better than average reception quality and can only show the local signal from your home state without distortion

[3whacker]

you guys can fantasize all you want about Phil joining the Euro tour but their is one huge factor that will keep him from doing that......its called family cant see him uprooting Amy and the kids and move them from Cali to a life of jet setting around the world...he is a "soccer type dad" and changes his schedule to be a bigger part of his kids life.yes he may play a few more Euro events but his bread and butter is here and as long as Tiger is on the PGA Tour that is where THE SHOW is, not in Europe....

[flubbed_it]

3whacker, on Sep 29 2008, 11:05 AM, said:

you guys can fantasize all you want about Phil joining the Euro tour but their is one huge factor that will keep him from doing that......its called family cant see him uprooting Amy and the kids and move them from Cali to a life of jet setting around the world...he is a "soccer type dad" and changes his schedule to be a bigger part of his kids life.yes he may play a few more Euro events but his bread and butter is here and as long as Tiger is on the PGA Tour that is where THE SHOW is, not in Europe....

http://www.skysports...4201698,00.html

I got news for you, not only is the U.S tour in danger of being the number two tour because of money from the middle east, if you think about how much golf is growing in Asia and the number of potential players, it stands to reason that they could potentially be the predominant tour.

You guys could end up like a huge qualifying school, a sideshow !!!

I'm going to practice my putting, I fancy my chances of getting a u.s tour card now.

[bjdrivers]

flubbed_it, on Sep 29 2008, 07:06 AM, said:

I got news for you, not only is the U.S tour in danger of being the number two tour because of money from the middle east, if you think about how much golf is growing in Asia and the number of potential players, it stands to reason that they could potentially be the predominant tour.

You guys could end up like a huge qualifying school, a sideshow !!!

I'm going to practice my putting, I fancy my chances of getting a u.s tour card now.

lol, the inaugural Race to Dubai in 2009, which offers a first prize of $1.6 million. that's only 1/10th of what Vijay just won in the U.S.

[flubbed_it]

midasmulligan2000, on Sep 29 2008, 01:18 PM, said:

I'm happy the European Tour is expanding, I love watching (and playing) golf in Europe. Also love the time difference (for a golf junkie, its kind of cool during the summer to watch 2 or 3 hours of the EU tourney in the morning, and then 2 or 3 hours of the PGA in the afternoon).

However, so far as the OP ... "Factor in the enormous wealth of several of the Middle Eastern countries and the continuing financial problems in the USA (and the obvious effect on sponsorship) and it's not difficult to see that the future of the world's two main tours is about to change massively........" ... I suspect that is probably a dramatic overstatement.

First, while Phil might talk about playing a bit more there, and if the EU lowers requirements, a few other US guys may play there a bit more often, there's no word of any mass exodus to the European Tour from the PGA Tour. For one thing, the purses for the average tournament in the US (the bread and butter of Tour players) are still higher in the US, and likely to remain that way.

The PGA is much richer than the European Tour. (This isn't a chest thumping nationalistic statement - it is simply numbers ... in 2008, we have a PGA Tour total purse of $286 million. On the European Tour, we have a total purse of about $170 million ... there's just a lot more opportunity to make money on the PGA Tour. And when you see the full scope of things, even adding $20MM in Dubai still doesn't bring the two tours anywhere close to parity).

Further, travel really is an issue. Tournaments are 4 days long (five if you count the Pro-Ams). Travel to Europe (let alone the Middle East) basically burns a day on either side of that ... not to mention the jet-lag (which is really wearying for any professional athlete). The European Tour may be expanding into an "international tour" ... and may well ultimately be having a lot of Middle easern, Asian, and South American events ... but I'd bet even a lot of European players won't make a lot of those trips.

A truly international tour does sound good on paper ... but the reality is, most players are going to only travel occasionally off their home continents. (In fact, a lot of the European players that play the PGA Tour regularly either rent or own homes in the US ... flying "home" to Europe between every weekly tournament is just not really feasible).

Finally, as far as the US economy goes ... well, it always goes through financial crises. Ups and downs. The press always likes to cry that the sky is falling (its what sells newspapers), but this happens every decade. Recessions are usually a year or two long. But contracts for tournaments generally are on a much longer cycle. A few sponsors will likely drop out next year. A few others will replace them. Most will stay in place. Total prize money is likely to stay roughly the same as it was this year.

In other words, I highly doubt "the future of the world's two main tours is about to change massively" ... the Race to Dubai, coupled with lower Tour requirements might alter things a little ... a few US players making a few extra trips per year to Europe, and a few European players on the PGA Tour staying in Europe a couple of extra weeks every year ... but really? I don't see the next few years looking that much different than the last few years.

Some interesting points and to be serious for a moment, I think that any impact on the income of the U.S tour would be deferred, a lot of these deals involve periodic payments. I also think any impact will vary from sponsor to sponsor, i.e the companies that earn from disposeable income and various recession vulnerable industries will be hit harder than those reliant on earnings from essential goods and services. A lot of players seem to have individual deals with companies from the technology and finance sectors. There will be an impact but it will be one that the PGA and the players can absorb.

I don't know about purses and tour revenues though your numbers surprised me if they are accurate. I wouldn't expect or want a mass exodus. It isn't going to happen so it's not worth talking about.

As far as the future goes, I think the European tour is obviously expanding which is good but I don't think it will be at the expense of the U.S PGA tour. Certain events will benefit, I believe that there are either six or seven co-sanctioned events, so probably the German (BMW) and scottish opens (which precede the British open) will benefit from some u.s players and obviously it will come down to personal choice for the others. They will be rubbish in the wind as always.

I was serious about the Asian tour though, in years to come they could be enormous.

[SwingLikeElk]

We'll just have to wait and see what transpires.

Guys, my comments were simply my opinion and I admire any U.S. golfer who will go to incredible lengths to increase his skill. But I feel that's what it'll be...incredible lengths. Those with private jets will have a bit of the edge taken away I'd guess. I just don't see a world tour happening very soon. I think many will try it and probably realize their games are better suited here in the states. I for one see Phil giving it a try and then returning home due to strong winds, ankle high hay, missing his family or warm beer!

I do admit golf here may be a bit boring at times but is it possible that's because we are a bit spoiled seeing the best of the best each and every week battle it out? On the other hand, I'll never submit to posting after posting that claim courses here are all the same. Manicured, maybe, but one-dimensional? I can't compare the 8th at Pebble, the 12th at Augusta or the 9th at Pinehurst No. 2. Again, courses in the states are UNIQUE! Yet there are obvious differences between U.S. style and links style for sure.

A world tour is a totally different story that seems closer than ever but still could be years away. Maybe Phil can spearhead something and get the ball rolling...but it won't be the European Tour if he changes his whole life. It would be a World Tour.

Here's a thought: In the beginning stages, why not have the U.S. & Euro tours create a fifth major in a new location around the world somewhere every year? It might land in Dubai or somewhere else and be a foreshadowing of a World Tour.